[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[The Free Joy State]

I don't know if it is unusual or not, apologize in advance

Snowman had a non-existen military. Now it has a very small military, but nevertheless. Usually it goes from negative value to zero then positive again. I was wondering why such a big jump

Issue answered 5-10 minutes before this post
Issue #135 option 2
Defense forces from negative value to positive one

I only meant to raise taxes to fund existing programs. The military is mentioned no where. Closest thing was police force

I'm afraid we can't be as specific as to programme the issue so it funds only each nation's current programmes. The option funds all government areas, so your military also gained a boost.

Issue: "Clash of Cultures"

This one made me think for a few minutes, since I could see the reasoning behind most of the options, but I ended up picking the option to actively end segregation, even if it meant forcing families to relocate.

Results I don't entirely understand:
1. Social Conservatism increased
2. Intelligence decreased (Intelligence in general is a stat I don't fully understand)

I don't remember the issue number-- I apologize.

Social conservatism is a secondary stat that changes, in part, when civil rights do. Your civil rights dropped due to forcing people to move, so social conservatism rose.

Intelligence is a secondary stat, too. It's controlled by a huge variety of things playing off against each other, as well as your already existing stats. It did only rise from 42.20-42.01, so the raw change wasn't that large.

[Trotterdam]

Usually it goes from negative value to zero then positive again.

Hmm? I think it's pretty rare for the value to ever be exactly zero. Usually it'll flip directly from a small negative value to a small positive value and back - and note that the scale is twisted so that what's "small" is different for positive values than negative ones.

Intelligence is a secondary stat, too. It's controlled by a huge variety of things playing off against each other,

Including civil rights, which is probably the relevant one here.

[Apabeossie]

Quia Spectrum Est (#987)
About 3 hrs ago
First Option
Why did Book Publishing decrease so much? from about 1K to 0.99?

Because the option prosecutes anyone who publishes products that may lead to criminal behaviour.

Say there's a fiction book called something like: "How to Murder Your Husband" (I think there might be, actually). Someone reads it and murders their husband. The author, publisher and so on could -- under this option -- be prosecuted for encouraging criminal behaviour. That would make people less likely to write fiction books featuring certain crimes, but also it would make publishers unable to publish books about how to pass an exam (in case they were used to cheat, say).

So, Industry: Book Publishing dropped off, because writers will limit what they write and publishers will limit what they print.

Ok. I understand how it got down, but why all the way down to 0.99?
Also, that stat have been somewhat weird recently. It rose to 1090 again.

[Apabeossie]

hello?

[The Free Joy State]

Because the option prosecutes anyone who publishes products that may lead to criminal behaviour.

Say there's a fiction book called something like: "How to Murder Your Husband" (I think there might be, actually). Someone reads it and murders their husband. The author, publisher and so on could -- under this option -- be prosecuted for encouraging criminal behaviour. That would make people less likely to write fiction books featuring certain crimes, but also it would make publishers unable to publish books about how to pass an exam (in case they were used to cheat, say).

So, Industry: Book Publishing dropped off, because writers will limit what they write and publishers will limit what they print.

Ok. I understand how it got down, but why all the way down to 0.99?
Also, that stat have been somewhat weird recently. It rose to 1090 again.

The sudden rise isn't a problem with the stat. That was related to some code in an issue that you answered, which has now been altered.

For future reference, it can take the team a couple of days to discuss things backstage -- especially over the weekends, when fewer people are around. There's really no need to do a bump when you are the most recent query. While it is possible for us to miss people if there's been a lot of movement, we will always see the most recent query.

EDIT: And as for the size of the drop, numerically speaking, industry changes are usually among the largest in the game. It's not unusual.

[Socialist State of LAY]

Socialist State of Lay
14.08.2018
Issue number 992, Robots in Disguise

Option 1 increases political apathy. Pretty sure that shouldn't be the case. It would fit any other option that decreases "fReEdOm oF SpeEcH". Thanks.

[The Free Joy State]

Socialist State of Lay
14.08.2018
Issue number 992, Robots in Disguise

Option 1 increases political apathy. Pretty sure that shouldn't be the case. It would fit any other option that decreases "fReEdOm oF SpeEcH". Thanks.

The option increases freedom of speech, in that it allows people to programme bots to say anything they like on the internet. It increases political apathy because people are less likely to believe what political Twitcher accounts say if they're more likely to be bots.

Working as intended.

[Malanasia]

why did 200.5 decrease this nation's civil rights?

[The Free Joy State]

why did 200.5 decrease this nation's civil rights?

It's option seven. It would have been the fifth one you saw, because not all options are available for all nations.

And it decreased your civil rights because it places an expectation on incredibly young women/girls to have children as soon as they biologically can -- without considering whether they want/are ready for children. That governmental pressure on teenagers to reproduce is restrictive.

[Hydoria]

Yes hello, I have a complaint about an NS issue that seems bugged.

Issue #520: Preach With Me If You Want To Live

I received this issue as Hydoria and answered Option 2.

I chose option 2: The military has declared war on all religious influence.

This supposedly was intended to ban chaplains and religious aspects from the armed forces, and while it lowered my nation's Religiousness by 90% it also triggered my country to gain the "Theocracy" Policy. This does not make any sense at all. I chose an anti-religious option and it instated a Theocracy??? This is baffling.

[The Free Joy State]

Yes hello, I have a complaint about an NS issue that seems bugged.

Issue #520: Preach With Me If You Want To Live

I received this issue as Hydoria and answered Option 2.

I chose option 2: The military has declared war on all religious influence.

This supposedly was intended to ban chaplains and religious aspects from the armed forces, and while it lowered my nation's Religiousness by 90% it also triggered my country to gain the "Theocracy" Policy. This does not make any sense at all. I chose an anti-religious option and it instated a Theocracy??? This is baffling.

What happened in your case was that you already had the level of religion necessary for a theocracy, and your answer didn't change that. However, it does appear that the stats could do with a tweak for that option, so I'll do that now.

Unfortunately, I can't change anything retroactively to your nation's effects, but -- should you receive the issue again -- the answer should work more as you anticipate.

[Yesrway]

1 minute Ago
Yesrway
This green and pleasant land #630
result:landless farmers wander forlornly in the government's many national parks

Assuming that it wasn't green land, it would give almost no benefit for the economy
even if I made a resort, why did the efficiency of economy decrease?
Also it would benefit the tourism industry, so economy has to go up!

[The Free Joy State]

1 minute Ago
Yesrway
This green and pleasant land #630
result:landless farmers wander forlornly in the government's many national parks

Assuming that it wasn't green land, it would give almost no benefit for the economy
even if I made a resort, why did the efficiency of economy decrease?
Also it would benefit the tourism industry, so economy has to go up!

It reduced economic efficiency because you opted to turn prime farming land into a nature reserve (a place for flora and fauna). And tourism doesn't rise because the option does not mention wanting to bring in tourists, and does not offer to bring in tourists.

[Nedvia]

Under the category: POLICIES, my nation is supposedly in favour if marriage equality, when, in fact, I have never voted in favour of that on any issue. Why is this?

[The Free Joy State]

Under the category: POLICIES, my nation is supposedly in favour if marriage equality, when, in fact, I have never voted in favour of that on any issue. Why is this?

For future reference, this thread deals with the direct results of issues you've answered. This question would have worked better on its own thread. However, I can answer it to save you time.

When you join NationStates, you answer a series of questions that are used to determine your leader's positions on a number of things, such as drug legalisation, democracy and same-sex marriage. These nation creation choices are used to classify your nation and produce some initial stats. However, depending on the strength of your answers, can also throw up some policies to start out with.

Although, I can see that you have answered at least a couple of issues that would have given you the option to legalise same-sex marriage. Although, without knowing the approximate date you received them, I can't go through months of your issues to find out which answer you selected.

[Seagull]

Issue 496 option 2 somehow increased scientific advancement and reduced primitiveness?

[Yesrway]

1 minute Ago
Yesrway
This green and pleasant land #630
result:landless farmers wander forlornly in the government's many national parks

Assuming that it wasn't green land, it would give almost no benefit for the economy
even if I made a resort, why did the efficiency of economy decrease?
Also it would benefit the tourism industry, so economy has to go up!

It reduced economic efficiency because you opted to turn prime farming land into a nature reserve (a place for flora and fauna). And tourism doesn't rise because the option does not mention wanting to bring in tourists, and does not offer to bring in tourists.

It was a desert, so it already doesn't benefit the economy

[The Free Joy State]

Issue 496 option 2 somehow increased scientific advancement and reduced primitiveness?

Yeah, I can see that would be confusing. Both of those are secondary effects. It's related to "teach the children", but I think there's some tweaks that can be safely done there to reduce the magnitude of the effects for most nations.

It reduced economic efficiency because you opted to turn prime farming land into a nature reserve (a place for flora and fauna). And tourism doesn't rise because the option does not mention wanting to bring in tourists, and does not offer to bring in tourists.

It was a desert, so it already doesn't benefit the economy

No. From the description:

An unexpected rise in the water table has transformed a million acres of former desert into green and fertile and farming-ready land. As the government owns this land, it’s now up to you what you do with it.

It had been desert, but it was now prime farming land, and you instead chose to turn it into a nature reserve.

That is where the loss to the economy came from. However, you did make good environmental gains.

The issue is working as intended.

[The Plough Islands]

Having the "No Sports" policy enacted for option 2 of issue 1044 ("OK Stupid") seems *very* out of line - sports are barely mentioned in the option text and I don't think it's a fair leap to enact it from the 'everything else is verboten' line of the last sentence (you should using the same logic have "No Internet" and "No Religion" enacted). Would it be out of line to ask for that to be fixed?

(effect observed on this nation, today)

[The Free Joy State]

Having the "No Sports" policy enacted for option 2 of issue 1044 ("OK Stupid") seems *very* out of line - sports are barely mentioned in the option text and I don't think it's a fair leap to enact it from the 'everything else is verboten' line of the last sentence (you should using the same logic have "No Internet" and "No Religion" enacted). Would it be out of line to ask for that to be fixed?

(effect observed on this nation, today)

Actually, the line is specific that:

All other activities and pursuits are frivolous and must be verboten

You can play chess (and similar strategy endeavours) on the internet and also hold philosophical debate on the internet. Religion is also neither a recreational activity or pursuit, so is separate to sport.

As "verboten" means forbidden/prohibited, I think that it's bookmarked clearly enough.

[Christian Democrats]

I'm confused. Somebody explain to me why Option 988.4 increases poor income and decreases rich income.

[The Free Joy State]

I'm confused. Somebody explain to me why Option 988.4 increases poor income and decreases rich income.

I can't see where you answered that recently. And that's certainly not the effect it would have on every nation.

Average income of rich and poor are secondary stats that are distilled from a vast number of variables. Depending on where your nation begins will depend on the effect that option has.

A nation that begins with higher levels of economic freedoms will often experience a drastic drop in income for the poor as a result of the able poor being less able to have any say in their own destiny. A nation with medium to lower economic freedoms may not notice such a differece. Due to the other changes, playing off against each nation's individual stats (there's an awful lot of stats that go into average incomes) a rise is also possible, even though it isn't intended.

[Christian Democrats]

I answered the issue on a puppet nation: James II.

[The Free Joy State]

I answered the issue on a puppet nation: James II.

Ah. In future, please could you give the provide the nation where you answered the issue. It makes it easier to find out what may have caused the effects.

With James II, the civil rights are already not great, which minimised the negative effects that this option has on the rights of the poor in this case. And, as I said, numerous other effects play off against each other here, meaning that a rise can occur.

[Trotterdam]

I'm confused. Somebody explain to me why Option 988.4 increases poor income and decreases rich income.

I can't see where you answered that recently. And that's certainly not the effect it would have on every nation.

Average income of rich and poor are secondary stats that are distilled from a vast number of variables. Depending on where your nation begins will depend on the effect that option has.

A nation that begins with higher levels of economic freedoms will often experience a drastic drop in income for the poor as a result of the able poor being less able to have any say in their own destiny. A nation with medium to lower economic freedoms may not notice such a differece. Due to the other changes, playing off against each nation's individual stats (there's an awful lot of stats that go into average incomes) a rise is also possible, even though it isn't intended.

This is incorrect. The option always increases Income Equality and decreases Average Income of Rich, and usually increases Average Income of Poor (sometimes it causes a much smaller decrease instead, but that is due to the economy as a whole tanking). This is a direct consequence of the game's inconsistent definition and usage of "Economic Freedom", where the editors have decided that the right of poor people to be free from the influence of rich people (rather than the government) also counts as an economic freedom, yet the internal calculations still treat all economic freedom as benefitting the rich more than the poor.

With James II, the civil rights are already not great, which minimised the negative effects that this option has on the rights of the poor in this case. And, as I said, numerous other effects play off against each other here, meaning that a rise can occur.

...Civil rights? What?