[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Trotterdam]

Ah, I didn't equate "leave to die" with "execute".

It's not just that you're leaving them to die, but also that it's explicitly you who infected them with the disease that's going to kill them in the first place. This is not just negligence - you're deliberately taking actions that would lead to people dying who would likely have survived if you did nothing. Even if you don't stick around to watch their last moments, that's killing - and since it's being done as punishment for violating a law (the one requiring mandatory vaccinations), it's capital punishment.

[Phydios]

Hey, this was devious!

(#907, Option 5)

“Got to say, all those extras sound kind of bulky,” observes Rosalia Yates, who smells faintly of petrol. “You probably ought to allow bikes to have some sort of on-board motive dynamo to help with that weight, maybe one or two extra wheels for stability, a vertical column and wheel steering system, and some sort of metal casing to protect the rider and all the delicate parts. In fact, with the extra power on board, you could also put some passenger seats in.”

I thought this would create rickshaw-like vehicles or something. It cancelled my no-cars policy!!!

Let's look at the suggested additions to bicycles:

• Onboard engine
• Three or four wheels
• Steering with a wheel instead of handlebars
• Enclosed cabin
• Passenger seats

That's not a description of a rickshaw. That's a car. The mention of petrol (or gasoline) makes it even clearer. The speaker is using a not-so-sneaky method of convincing you to legalize cars.

[He Qixin]

476.1 caused an increase of 0.01 points to my corruption and a decrease of 0.03 points to my integrity?! On my puppets the change is usually the other way around.

Effects vary. Emergent sim. Multiple factors.

http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/476.html

Ok then

I have another question though: What's with the employment scores being so extreme in flactuation? Like, Northern Borland employment rates of >=99.65 until it very briefly hit 29.58 for two days before carrying on with those very high values again. What's going on there?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Effects vary. Emergent sim. Multiple factors.

http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/476.html

Ok then

I have another question though: What's with the employment scores being so extreme in flactuation? Like, Northern Borland employment rates of >=99.65 until it very briefly hit 29.58 for two days before carrying on with those very high values again. What's going on there?

That question isn't really something that belongs on this thread. There's a known technical explanation, I think.

[He Qixin]

Ok then

I have another question though: What's with the employment scores being so extreme in flactuation? Like, Northern Borland employment rates of >=99.65 until it very briefly hit 29.58 for two days before carrying on with those very high values again. What's going on there?

That question isn't really something that belongs on this thread. There's a known technical explanation, I think.

Ok

[Liberty]

I just chose the first option on Issue #601, and I originally came here to ask why I saw the big jump in Welfare (Welfare up 39.7%, Law Enforcement up 28.3%, Safety up 20.0%), but now that I read the result, I get it:

5 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Liberty, lawyers turn down litigation cases and corporate work in order to focus on lucrative public defence work.

So instead I'll ask what part of the following text should have led me to believe that "the system" referred to public defenders and prosecutors, and not just prosecutors? Public defenders aren't mentioned at all until later options.

#601: Lawyers On Trial [Tzarsgrad; ed:Candlewhisper Archive]

The Issue
Notorious gangster Johnny 'Stab-Stab' @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@ was recently found 'not guilty' on multiple charges leveled against him, despite a broad expectation from citizens and the media that he would be convicted. Experts are saying that the surprising result was the consequence of Johnny hiring the very best private defence lawyers, while the prosecution was led by an inexperienced and overworked public prosecutor who was so tired he could barely keep his eyes open through the case.

The Debate
1. "Zzzzzz... Huh? What? Wasafargit blarg?" garbles public prosecutor Ivan Anap, as you nudge him into wakefulness. "Uh... Look, I've done a bad job, clearly. But have you seen my case load? I gotta represent the downtrodden masses and the... wossname... penniless crowds. The system deserves more money, so we can get better public servants, and so I can get some... some... slee..." He collapses, face-first onto the floor.

[The Norden Utopia]

Hello
Unfortunelty, I ended up marking an option at the issue “Death Penalty on the Agenda” to keep my death penalty abolished, but it ended up taking my public protest policy! On the nsindex wikia it said it didnt take this policy in this issue option! Is there anyway it can be fixed?
Thanks
The Norden Utopia

[NatCap Empire]

NatCap Empire
Jun 25 or 26
What a Waste
It made my nation become barren for doing the green option and ruined my nation that I had built. I request that the issue’s effects on my nation be removed and if necessary all options after “what a waste” be reset so it would bring me back to before the issue then you have my go!

[The Norden Utopia]

I would like to have my settings returned to the ones before the issue “death penalty in the agenda”, if possible. If even needed, you can reset all my current stats to the ones before this issue. I don’t care, I just wish to go back to these stats. I just made 2 issues after the one quoted on this post

[Trotterdam]

NatCap Empire
Jun 25 or 26
What a Waste
It made my nation become barren for doing the green option and ruined my nation that I had built. I request that the issue’s effects on my nation be removed and if necessary all options after “what a waste” be reset so it would bring me back to before the issue then you have my go!

This is what you appear to believe is the green option on that issue:[box]4. "I feel ashamed to be offering you an even better and easier solution, one that won't cost you a thing and might even make you a little money," simpers Snidely Industries CEO Cornelius Davidson Snidely while twirling his handlebar moustache. "Why, this waste could be sold to some very special international clients who would be very discreet about where they bought it from. I just recently sold them a batch of suitcases and plenty of dynamite: your waste products are the last missing ingredient they need. Dirty money from dirty bombs? No... clean profit margins from a clean sale!"[/quote]I am not sure why.

[The Free Joy State]

I just chose the first option on Issue #601, and I originally came here to ask why I saw the big jump in Welfare (Welfare up 39.7%, Law Enforcement up 28.3%, Safety up 20.0%), but now that I read the result, I get it:

5 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Liberty, lawyers turn down litigation cases and corporate work in order to focus on lucrative public defence work.

So instead I'll ask what part of the following text should have led me to believe that "the system" referred to public defenders and prosecutors, and not just prosecutors? Public defenders aren't mentioned at all until later options.

#601: Lawyers On Trial [Tzarsgrad; ed:Candlewhisper Archive]

The Issue
Notorious gangster Johnny 'Stab-Stab' @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@ was recently found 'not guilty' on multiple charges leveled against him, despite a broad expectation from citizens and the media that he would be convicted. Experts are saying that the surprising result was the consequence of Johnny hiring the very best private defence lawyers, while the prosecution was led by an inexperienced and overworked public prosecutor who was so tired he could barely keep his eyes open through the case.

The Debate
1. "Zzzzzz... Huh? What? Wasafargit blarg?" garbles public prosecutor Ivan Anap, as you nudge him into wakefulness. "Uh... Look, I've done a bad job, clearly. But have you seen my case load? I gotta represent the downtrodden masses and the... wossname... penniless crowds. The system deserves more money, so we can get better public servants, and so I can get some... some... slee..." He collapses, face-first onto the floor.

We don't calculate statistics based on effect lines, but on the option. The effect line is merely a joke to be (hopefully) enjoyed.

This option is about putting more money into public prosecutors, so they can face expensive private attorneys in court (thus ensuring the wealthy don't have an unfair advantage in justice). Where you fund public systems, welfare will often rise. Whether it's public prosecutions or public defenders may make a difference to the degree of rise. Law enforcement and safety also rose, due to additional money in public prosecutions.

I suggest, if you have not already done so, you go into your settings and turn on "Show More Stats", which give you the raw numbers. The percentages often look large, but the raw numbers are frequently comparatively small.

Hello
Unfortunelty, I ended up marking an option at the issue “Death Penalty on the Agenda” to keep my death penalty abolished, but it ended up taking my public protest policy! On the nsindex wikia it said it didnt take this policy in this issue option! Is there anyway it can be fixed?
Thanks
The Norden Utopia

You took the option to "crack down on lunatic fringe groups". This may seem counterintuitive but, in the world of NS, the government preventing people doing what they like reduces their civil rights. You clamped down on their right to protest, which -- in this instance -- pushed you over the edge and removed your public protest policy.

It wouldn't have for every nation.

While NSIndex is an excellent resource for effect lines and issues, they stopped providing stats, purely because it's difficult to keep up.

Further to your second post, we cannot reset stats to previous levels. If you answer an issue in a way you don't intend, you will have to undo it by answering more issues. If you go into your settings, there is a button: "Require confirmation before passing legislation".

If you have not already done so, I suggest you turn it on.

NatCap Empire
Jun 25 or 26
What a Waste
It made my nation become barren for doing the green option and ruined my nation that I had built. I request that the issue’s effects on my nation be removed and if necessary all options after “what a waste” be reset so it would bring me back to before the issue then you have my go!

As Trotterdam pointed out, you selected to sell your waste products for dirty bombs, to people who had already bought dynamite.

The only thing that option promises you is a "clean profit margin".

The option is working as intended. And, as I pointed out to the above nation, we do not remove effects or reset stats. We don't have the ability.

I also suggest that you turn on: "Require confirmation before passing legislation" in your Settings.

[Thespolis]

I answered issue 243 with the second option, which establishes secularism, yet I am now allowed to have a state religion, is this intentional, and if not, could the presence in settings be voided for me?

Thanks.

[Leutria]

I answered issue 243 with the second option, which establishes secularism, yet I am now allowed to have a state religion, is this intentional, and if not, could the presence in settings be voided for me?

Thanks.

Because of the constant complaints of people who wanted but anciently did not unlock the field, it was made so all options unlock it. If you blank the field the game treats it as if you do not have one.

[Chads Reborn]

Hello,
I got issue 625 and answered with option 3, which was the one that allowed my police to seize the weapons from the contraband shipment and use them against dissident groups. However, when I submitted my choice, I received no changes to any stats... at least, none that I could see. Is this supposed to be the case?

[The Free Joy State]

Hello,
I got issue 625 and answered with option 3, which was the one that allowed my police to seize the weapons from the contraband shipment and use them against dissident groups. However, when I submitted my choice, I received no changes to any stats... at least, none that I could see. Is this supposed to be the case?

This option restricts political and personal liberties. At the moment, yours' are as restricted as they can get in the effected areas, so the nothing changed.

A different nation would have shown different results.

[Techolandia]

After getting issue #233 and choosing option 2 (with the effect line: Shaken martini sales have soared in nations surrounding Techolandia.), these were the recent headlines:
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Impaled
Parents Teach Preschoolers Pre-Emptive Strike Doctrine
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Vacationing
Jobless Numbers Grow

Don't the first and third headlines contradict each other?

[Memyudenyat]

After getting issue #233 and choosing option 2 (with the effect line: Shaken martini sales have soared in nations surrounding Techolandia.), these were the recent headlines:
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Impaled
Parents Teach Preschoolers Pre-Emptive Strike Doctrine
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Vacationing
Jobless Numbers Grow

Don't the first and third headlines contradict each other?

I think you got the same issue twice.

[Trotterdam]

After getting issue #233 and choosing option 2 (with the effect line: Shaken martini sales have soared in nations surrounding Techolandia.), these were the recent headlines:
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Impaled
Parents Teach Preschoolers Pre-Emptive Strike Doctrine
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Vacationing
Jobless Numbers Grow

Don't the first and third headlines contradict each other?

I guess a lot of dissidents have gone missing lately.

[Trotterdam]

So, it appears that (A) is is possible to receive #1018 while having the No Computers policy, and (B) selecting option 4, which uses artificial intelligence for just about everything, does not remove this policy.

[The Free Joy State]

After getting issue #233 and choosing option 2 (with the effect line: Shaken martini sales have soared in nations surrounding Techolandia.), these were the recent headlines:
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Impaled
Parents Teach Preschoolers Pre-Emptive Strike Doctrine
Dissident Speaker Missing, Presumed Vacationing
Jobless Numbers Grow

Don't the first and third headlines contradict each other?

The newspapers are randomised and don't really belong on this thread. Editors don't assign them. The game automatically offers them, as a joke, in part based on your statistical changes.

As Trotterdam says, thinking ICly, I would assume multiple dissidents are going missing.

So, it appears that (A) is is possible to receive #1018 while having the No Computers policy, and (B) selecting option 4, which uses artificial intelligence for just about everything, does not remove this policy.

Have you seen a nation get that has a No Computers policy get #1018, because that should not be possible.

If so, please could you direct me to the specific nation, if known, and the approximate date when you saw it?

[Tyronian Socialist State]

Issue number 1018 'Operation Failed' Option number 3 reads as follows:
“Why stop at just the operating room doors when there’s so much more an AI could do for us?” asks Dr. Dixie Sullivan, Professor of Experimental Gynaecological Robotics, fetching a fresh box of batteries from the top shelf. “We could make hospitals so much more efficient if we allowed them to adopt more roles: diagnostic chatbots, robot nurses, computerised counsellors, and so on. AIs should outnumber humans by at least twenty to one on the hospital staff.”

The Stat changes are a follows:
https://bit.ly/2NaUsR0

the issue:
I can understand why most of these stat changes would take place, however, I do not understand how replacing medical staff with AI controlled robots would increase the income of the rich, increase the Wealth gap, increase the Black market, decrease pacifism, decrease the average income of the poor, and decrease income Equality. The changes to do with employment and average wage dont make much sense due to the fact that if the vast majority of staff are nurses and doctors in a hospital, how would the average income of the rich increase? logically the average income for both should decrease if this is the case, or both would rise due to jobs in the automation industry are created in production and medical technology roles.

[The Free Joy State]

Issue number 1018 'Operation Failed' Option number 3 reads as follows:
“Why stop at just the operating room doors when there’s so much more an AI could do for us?” asks Dr. Dixie Sullivan, Professor of Experimental Gynaecological Robotics, fetching a fresh box of batteries from the top shelf. “We could make hospitals so much more efficient if we allowed them to adopt more roles: diagnostic chatbots, robot nurses, computerised counsellors, and so on. AIs should outnumber humans by at least twenty to one on the hospital staff.”

The Stat changes are a follows:
https://bit.ly/2NaUsR0

the issue:
I can understand why most of these stat changes would take place, however, I do not understand how replacing medical staff with AI controlled robots would increase the income of the rich, increase the Wealth gap, increase the Black market, decrease pacifism, decrease the average income of the poor, and decrease income Equality. The changes to do with employment and average wage dont make much sense due to the fact that if the vast majority of staff are nurses and doctors in a hospital, how would the average income of the rich increase? logically the average income for both should decrease if this is the case, or both would rise due to jobs in the automation industry are created in production and medical technology roles.

These bolded effects are all secondary effects. They're all impacted indirectly by a number of different hidden stats and that are programmed into the issue, which then interact with the stats already present in your nation. This can result in some effects, especially economic ones, that seem counterintuitive.

A different nation would have different effects.

With regards to your black market, the first post of this thread, it says this:

- Why didn't black market / state industry / private sector fall or rise like the option said it would?

Again, think whole economy. An option that reduces the market share that goes to the black market but which grows the economy as a whole could result in the absolute market size of the black market increasing, even as you decrease the black market's proportional prominence in the economy.

Finally, remember that issues effects vary according to the nation they effect. The effect it has on your nation is almost certainly not the same effect you'll see on another nation.

As this option led to an increase in your IT industry, there was a proportional increase in your black market.

[Trotterdam]

So, it appears that (A) is is possible to receive #1018 while having the No Computers policy, and (B) selecting option 4, which uses artificial intelligence for just about everything, does not remove this policy.

Have you seen a nation get that has a No Computers policy get #1018, because that should not be possible.

If so, please could you direct me to the specific nation, if known, and the approximate date when you saw it?

Sorry, that's not something I track. All I know is that at least one nation has been seen selecting #1018 option 4 (on 2018-06-27, shortly after midnight) and having the No Computers policy both before and after, but on second thought, it's possible that this is due to the nation having been assigned #1018, briefly put it on the backburner, then gained the No Computers policy from some other issue before answering #1018, making this a false alarm.

It's a bit surprising for such a thing to have already happened so soon after the issue was added, since it's normally fairly rare and I usually can use my data to make a decent estimate of issue validities, but it's entirely possible, so I guess that's what happened.

In any case, thanks for the confirmation on the validity and sorry for wasting your time.

[Heniva]

For issue #933, how come I chose option number 1 but it gave me the results for option number 4? Did anybody else get this problem? If so, how can that be?

[Frisbeeteria]

For issue #933, how come I chose option number 1 but it gave me the results for option number 4? Did anybody else get this problem? If so, how can that be?

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