[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Autopsy]

Issue #857, I got this option, even though I don't have the Atheism policy:

“It’s time we got a grip on our souls!” cries a cloaked figure brandishing a geocentric map from a shadowy corner of your office. “You ruthlessly eradicated religious thought from our once-venerable nation and now you are reaping what you sow! There is only one choice for you, Leader: the righteous one. Bring Autopsy back into the glory of His kingdom. Scientific pursuits need not be abandoned, only tempered.”

[The Free Joy State]

Issue #857, I got this option, even though I don't have the Atheism policy:

“It’s time we got a grip on our souls!” cries a cloaked figure brandishing a geocentric map from a shadowy corner of your office. “You ruthlessly eradicated religious thought from our once-venerable nation and now you are reaping what you sow! There is only one choice for you, Leader: the righteous one. Bring Autopsy back into the glory of His kingdom. Scientific pursuits need not be abandoned, only tempered.”

Thank you for your question, but it's fine.

To get that option, you don't need to have an actual Atheism policy, you just need a nation that's more irreligious than the average, which you statistically are.

But please continue to bring any effects that seem unusual to our attention.

[Autopsy]

Issue #857, I got this option, even though I don't have the Atheism policy:

Thank you for your question, but it's fine.

To get that option, you don't need to have an actual Atheism policy, you just need a nation that's more irreligious than the average, which you statistically are.

But please continue to bring any effects that seem unusual to our attention.

Should the spoiler thread be updated then?

[The Free Joy State]

Thank you for your question, but it's fine.

To get that option, you don't need to have an actual Atheism policy, you just need a nation that's more irreligious than the average, which you statistically are.

But please continue to bring any effects that seem unusual to our attention.

Should the spoiler thread be updated then?

The thing with updating the thread is that an atheist nation would also be eligible. It's quite hard to explain without getting into backstage stuff, but - broadly - the way it works religion works in NS is that there are atheist nations, nations where religion is discouraged (but still technically legal), nations where it is accepted, nations where it is encouraged to varying degrees, and theocracies.

This option, like many (but not all) of our irreligious options, is eligible for the first two groups. The spoiler thread isn't technically wrong, it just could lead to confusion. And I don't like to make more work for Jutsa (who kindly maintains the thread).

[Dwarfpolis]

Before I flood the thread with reports of this sort can I know how HDI actually works in the game?

It actually tells you if you view the stat's chart:
"The World Census compiles a “Human Development Index” by measuring citizens’ average life expectancy, education, and income."

That's basically it. Health is probably also taken into account, but upon taking down your economy,
you've: a) lowered income, b) lowered education, and c) probably broke even with life expectancy.

Edit: I'd like to mention that you've still got a very good one; I've got pretty high stats in all those things, and I'm still only slightly ahead of you.

Except that earlier in page 46 I reported that on an alt my life expectancy increased while HDI decreased, issue and option specified. Was this one of those cases where the lifespan stat was so low it increases to match the issue's weighed average or something?

Also bear with me because I just got over a two-week decline in HDI and it immediately began a downturn again. This game isn't good for my sanity.

[The Free Joy State]

It actually tells you if you view the stat's chart:
"The World Census compiles a “Human Development Index” by measuring citizens’ average life expectancy, education, and income."

That's basically it. Health is probably also taken into account, but upon taking down your economy,
you've: a) lowered income, b) lowered education, and c) probably broke even with life expectancy.

Edit: I'd like to mention that you've still got a very good one; I've got pretty high stats in all those things, and I'm still only slightly ahead of you.

Except that earlier in page 46 I reported that on an alt my life expectancy increased while HDI decreased, issue and option specified. Was this one of those cases where the lifespan stat was so low it increases to match the issue's weighed average or something?

Also bear with me because I just got over a two-week decline in HDI and it immediately began a downturn again. This game isn't good for my sanity.

HDI is a complex stat that we can't and don't directly control.

With #685 - the issue reported on the previous page for one of your puppet nations - option two prioritises health and the environment over profit, which would increase both life expectancy and the environment. On some nations, that would, by itself, boost the Human Development Index. On others, it doesn't.

As to what goes into calculating it: the system calculates it (we don't) by balancing a variety of economic, health, envionmental, and educational factors.

Placing an embargo in option #2 in #685 will negatively impact the economy, which is probably why your HDI went down. The HDI on one of my puppets marginally increased with the same decision. It's all working correctly; it's just that human development can't be narrowed down to a small number of factors.

[Dwarfpolis]

Except that earlier in page 46 I reported that on an alt my life expectancy increased while HDI decreased, issue and option specified. Was this one of those cases where the lifespan stat was so low it increases to match the issue's weighed average or something?

Also bear with me because I just got over a two-week decline in HDI and it immediately began a downturn again. This game isn't good for my sanity.

HDI is a complex stat that we can't and don't directly control.

With #685 - the issue reported on the previous page for one of your puppet nations - option two prioritises health and the environment over profit, which would increase both life expectancy and the environment. On some nations, that would, by itself, boost the Human Development Index. On others, it doesn't.

As to what goes into calculating it: the system calculates it (we don't) by balancing a variety of economic, health, envionmental, and educational factors.

Placing an embargo in option #2 in #685 will negatively impact the economy, which is probably why your HDI went down. The HDI on one of my puppets marginally increased with the same decision. It's all working correctly; it's just that human development can't be narrowed down to a small number of factors.

That coincides with my observations of HDI although it still seems to me that environmental conditions are out of place as long as a nation has high health and lifespan. However with this knowledge I hope I stumble less into -0.07% hell streaks

[Jutsa]

Good luck with that. :3

[VoVoDoCo]

I mean, it doesn't matter how big a tax cut it is — the fact is you cut funding to all departments, except possibly administration.

Less funding to environment is still a worse environment, as is the case with less funding towards business subsidization and a worse economy leading to less jobs*,
less welfare/social policy/transportation/education/law&order/jobs/income leading to crime rate, etc.

Taxes are pretty good, generally — and the game's not great at doing the calculations for its disadvantages,
although Average Disposable Income is an interesting stat to keep in mind. Definitely one of my harder decisions was choosing option 1 of that issue,
but I think it was worth it.

But option two is worded in a way that suggests a hesitance for cutting taxes. Nothing that suggests a cut in all departments.

And I usually pick option one, but my taxes are already REALLY low. A 1.1% tax cut, even if distributed to all expenditures, shouldn't have had those drastic affects. That 1.1% split amongst all expenditures is a REALLY low cut to all departments, and yet it cost my environment an upwards of 8ish%.

[Dwarfpolis]

Why would allowing torture in issue 44 lower my lifespan THIS hard when I don't have high criminality?

EDIT: stupid question pls ignore, it says "suspected criminals", that makes sense. Somebody with strong opinions got inspired.
Another issue in the trashcan

EDIT2: why can't I delete this

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Not coming back to this thread permanently, but its been mentioned backstage that HDI keeps coming up from one particular poster, so thought I would offer an explanation.

HDI is roughly based on the same inputs as the things it says it is based on, but the match is non-exact. This has been mentioned to the tech team some time back, and is presumably on a list of things needing reviewing.

There's no beta on it yet (https://www.nationstates.net/page=beta), but my understanding is that they're working through the megalist of potential simualtion deficits bit by bit, so expect that to be eventually reached.

Largely it runs into many of the same issues as Beta: 006 Lifespan is trying to correct, however that beta's changes aren't going to effect the HDI stat as it is coded separately.

For now, there's not much point reporting unexpected HDI effects. It's more or less a known simulation weakness.

[He Qixin]

Just curious, but why does 765.2 increase my safety (86.86 -> 90.34)?

[Caracasus]

Just curious, but why does 765.2 increase my safety (86.86 -> 90.34)?

You are appointing legal experts to be judges, broadly speaking the game has interpreted this as an improvement in your nation's policing. Crimes are more likely to be dealt with by the justice system. Your safety increases.

As a rule He Qixin, this thread is about unusual issue effects. Answering an issue about electing judges with the option you chose and seeing an increase in safety doesn't really count as unusual.

[He Qixin]

Just curious, but why does 765.2 increase my safety (86.86 -> 90.34)?

You are appointing legal experts to be judges, broadly speaking the game has interpreted this as an improvement in your nation's policing. Crimes are more likely to be dealt with by the justice system. Your safety increases.

As a rule He Qixin, this thread is about unusual issue effects. Answering an issue about electing judges with the option you chose and seeing an increase in safety doesn't really count as unusual.

I was just asking.

[Dwarfpolis]

Not coming back to this thread permanently, but its been mentioned backstage that HDI keeps coming up from one particular poster, so thought I would offer an explanation.

HDI is roughly based on the same inputs as the things it says it is based on, but the match is non-exact. This has been mentioned to the tech team some time back, and is presumably on a list of things needing reviewing.

There's no beta on it yet (https://www.nationstates.net/page=beta), but my understanding is that they're working through the megalist of potential simualtion deficits bit by bit, so expect that to be eventually reached.

Largely it runs into many of the same issues as Beta: 006 Lifespan is trying to correct, however that beta's changes aren't going to effect the HDI stat as it is coded separately.

For now, there's not much point reporting unexpected HDI effects. It's more or less a known simulation weakness.

Now was that so hard to do? Thank you, I stop reporting bizarre HDI changes now. Could we expect the stat to be worked on within 1 year?

Not coming back to this thread permanently, but its been mentioned backstage that HDI keeps coming up from one particular poster, so thought I would offer an explanation.

Really made me think...

EDIT: these betas you linked me will pop me right into over 90 lifespan and 90 HDI when they're implemented, which was my main goal, now I REALLY have no call to complain

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Oh my mistake, the beta DOES include HDI recoding.

Now was that so hard to do?

Ah, so you're the poster. Makes sense now.

Your general sense of entitlement and rudeness is one of the main reasons I don't want to work the thread any more. So if anyone wants to know why the service has been discontinued, you know who to blame.

Maybe hold back on the snarky comments, like the one quoted, and you might get more people willing to help you in future, both on NS and in life.

Anyway, cheers for reminding me why I don't do this thread.

[Dwarfpolis]

Oh my mistake, the beta DOES include HDI recoding.

Now was that so hard to do?

Ah, so you're the poster. Makes sense now.

Your general sense of entitlement and rudeness is one of the main reasons I don't want to work the thread any more. So if anyone wants to know why the service has been discontinued, you know who to blame.

Maybe hold back on the snarky comments, like the one quoted, and you might get more people willing to help you in future, both on NS and in life.

Anyway, cheers for reminding me why I don't do this thread.

"really makes you think" wasn't meant to be snarky comment, it's a tradition from my homeland that wasn't being hostile to anybody nor anything at all.

The last few pages all broke out because of 1 rash and ambiguously-phrased response to 1 unsolicited post/"advice" so I stand my ground.

[Jutsa]

Hey, now I've got a quick question: Is 558.2 supposed to present a loss in economic freedom? I can see personal freedom going down, but... economic freedom?

[Paradiosa]

I have encountered the issue 733 "The path les travelled". I've chosen Option:1

“Leader, we have a brilliant opportunity!” excitedly cheers Sue-Ann McFly, the mayor of one of the cities. “Imagine, our city, a front to the world in both summer and winter. All we need to do is develop and deploy a whole fleet of state-of-the-art icebreakers the likes of which the world has never seen before! I can just picture it now: hundreds of ships, thousands of tourists, and millions of Lovecoins worth of goods coming from across the globe to my port... err, Paradiosa.”

I was expecting an increase in Tourism but I saw a decline instead.

Is that an error?

[Fauxia]

Presumably, you hurt the environment, so less people come

[Dwarfpolis]

Presumably, you hurt the environment, so less people come

The game overstates how much tourists care about the environment. (Because people go to Paris for the parks...)
Edit: how do icebreakers damage the environment?

[Paradiosa]

Presumably, you hurt the environment, so less people come

The game overstates how much tourists care about the environment. (Because people go to Paris for the parks...)
Edit: how do icebreakers damage the environment?

Dwarfpolis has a point. Even if using icebreakers damaged the environment, tourists would like to travel through ice on a powerful ship and wouldn't care about it's effects on the environment.

[He Qixin]

I'm not sure the exact nation that this has occurred, but it happened a few days ago on one of my relatively new puppets.

So union strikes are bad for the economy?

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

So union strikes are bad for the economy?

Yes. Workers refusing to work is bad for the economy.

[He Qixin]

So union strikes are bad for the economy?

Yes. Workers refusing to work is bad for the economy.

Thanks anyway.

But I still don't get it - what's the point of the issue if both options decrease your major industry? Also looking forward to more of your drafts!