[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[He Qixin]

Choosing 58.4 decreased civil rights on Triangle and Square today, about an hour ago.

This does not make sense.

Why?

When you create a nation, the last (I think) statement on the statement-naire states:

It is better to deter criminals than rehabilitate them.

Agreeing to that statement apparently increases social conservatism and decreases civil rights, which means if you disagree with the statement - or you think it is better to rehabilitate criminals, the effects should be vice versa (social conservatism decreases and civil rights increases).

To my understanding, answering 58.4 is the same as disagreeing the last question on the questionnaire when you create a nation. Yet civil rights decreased when I chose 58.4 on Triangle and Square about an hour ago.

But I may have missed something. Explain please.

Looks like I was skipped.

[The Free Joy State]

Choosing 58.4 decreased civil rights on Triangle and Square today, about an hour ago.

This does not make sense.

Why?

When you create a nation, the last (I think) statement on the statement-naire states:

It is better to deter criminals than rehabilitate them.

Agreeing to that statement apparently increases social conservatism and decreases civil rights, which means if you disagree with the statement - or you think it is better to rehabilitate criminals, the effects should be vice versa (social conservatism decreases and civil rights increases).

To my understanding, answering 58.4 is the same as disagreeing the last question on the questionnaire when you create a nation. Yet civil rights decreased when I chose 58.4 on Triangle and Square about an hour ago.

But I may have missed something. Explain please.

Looks like I was skipped.

The option isn't actual in-line with the rehabilitation of criminals, but rather deals with the outlawing of religious practices - questionable as those practices might be - and the forced re-education of the practitioners.

In NS, whenever you restrict the rights of your people to do something (marry who they want, go where they want, or follow a fringe religion founded by a crazed woman in purple), chances are that - depending on your nation's beginning stats - it will have the effect of lowering your civil rights.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Cheers for flagging. Looks like the issue is working fine, and a validity test on the poster's nation shows it is correctly excluding that nation.

[Dwarfpolis]

Help the poor get jobs nothing notable happens
Ban homework -0.08% HDI

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AND I JUST GOT OVER MY LAST HDI PEAK http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/fac ... 06/742.jpg

edit: I don't know if this suits this thread or the other issues thread and while it makes sense that harming education harms HDI it's still insanely arbitrary how the stat is calculated

[Caracasus]

Help the poor get jobs nothing notable happens
Ban homework -0.08% HDI

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AND I JUST GOT OVER MY LAST HDI PEAK http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/fac ... 06/742.jpg

edit: I don't know if this suits this thread or the other issues thread and while it makes sense that harming education harms HDI it's still insanely arbitrary how the stat is calculated

Okay. First off, can you please not post pictures that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue you are having problems with here? Often nations post a screenshot of stats from their nation. This picture adds nothing to what people need to know to help you.

Secondly, please post the issue numbers or at very least their titles, not a vague description of what happened. Us editors can go back and check issues you've answered but it's still useful if we've got something to go on - no-one else can do that, so you're ruling out help from a large chunk of the community.

The first issue did a considerable amount to your nation.

As for the second issue in question. HDI (Human Development Index) is a stat that is impacted by a whole range of other stats from your nation. In this case, getting rid of homework resulted in a negligible decrease to your student's education. That had an even smaller impact on HDI.

A change that doesn't even register as a tenth of a per cent to this stat is not really worth worrying about or reporting. The issue is functioning entirely as expected here.

[Dwarven Periphery]

Help the poor get jobs nothing notable happens
Ban homework -0.08% HDI

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AND I JUST GOT OVER MY LAST HDI PEAK http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/fac ... 06/742.jpg

edit: I don't know if this suits this thread or the other issues thread and while it makes sense that harming education harms HDI it's still insanely arbitrary how the stat is calculated

Okay. First off, can you please not post pictures that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue you are having problems with here? Often nations post a screenshot of stats from their nation. This picture adds nothing to what people need to know to help you.

Secondly, please post the issue numbers or at very least their titles, not a vague description of what happened. Us editors can go back and check issues you've answered but it's still useful if we've got something to go on - no-one else can do that, so you're ruling out help from a large chunk of the community.

The first issue did a considerable amount to your nation.

As for the second issue in question. HDI (Human Development Index) is a stat that is impacted by a whole range of other stats from your nation. In this case, getting rid of homework resulted in a negligible decrease to your student's education. That had an even smaller impact on HDI.

A change that doesn't even register as a tenth of a per cent to this stat is not really worth worrying about or reporting. The issue is functioning entirely as expected here.

I never specified the issue number because I knew I would get a dismissive reply, unless you are considering adding a HDI boost with the result I described first. You're right HDI has a really elaborate basis because it doesn't correlate neither with life expectancy nor with incomes as I have seen it inversely develop with both in some issue answers

I don't know where the general complaint thread is or if I should have just made an OP for that.

[Trotterdam]

I never specified the issue number because I knew I would get a dismissive reply,

Self-satisfying prophecy?

[Cekoviu]

501.1 lowers civil rights even though I'm making it so toddlers can't be dressed in sexual costumes and exploited, which I'd consider to be increasing their rights.

[Dwarven Periphery]

I never specified the issue number because I knew I would get a dismissive reply,

Self-satisfying prophecy?

HDI is broken and doesn't correlate with two of its component statistics and I don't eve know if it correlates with public education, I complained about that before and doubtlessly people before me have, why would I strive to change what won't?

[Caracasus]

Okay. First off, can you please not post pictures that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue you are having problems with here? Often nations post a screenshot of stats from their nation. This picture adds nothing to what people need to know to help you.

Secondly, please post the issue numbers or at very least their titles, not a vague description of what happened. Us editors can go back and check issues you've answered but it's still useful if we've got something to go on - no-one else can do that, so you're ruling out help from a large chunk of the community.

The first issue did a considerable amount to your nation.

As for the second issue in question. HDI (Human Development Index) is a stat that is impacted by a whole range of other stats from your nation. In this case, getting rid of homework resulted in a negligible decrease to your student's education. That had an even smaller impact on HDI.

A change that doesn't even register as a tenth of a per cent to this stat is not really worth worrying about or reporting. The issue is functioning entirely as expected here.

I never specified the issue number because I knew I would get a dismissive reply, unless you are considering adding a HDI boost with the result I described first. You're right HDI has a really elaborate basis because it doesn't correlate neither with life expectancy nor with incomes as I have seen it inversely develop with both in some issue answers

I don't know where the general complaint thread is or if I should have just made an OP for that.

We don't add HDI boosts. HDI boosts occur when other changes happen. In another nation, that option might well lead to an HDI boost. Not yours though, it'd appear.

There is no general complaint thread. There is this thread, which is for when an issue effect seems very unusual. 7-8 times out of 10 it's not and a user has mis-read something or misinterpreted something. Most users are polite and play nicely with others, so most of us have no problems at all helping out and explaining. I never have a problem dealing with users who don't act like entitled babies who absolutely must be the centre of attention all the time - and to the 99% of you out there who don't - please do keep reporting these because sometimes they are very useful indeed. We know you don't have all the answers and don't have everything in front of you so it's understandable that people raise problems with issues where there are none. Hell, I did it often enough when I wasn't an editor.

Occasionally an issue effect will be wrong. Editors are human beings and we make mistakes. In the second case, this thread is very useful for troubleshooting. If you really have a problem with the issues on a fundamental level beyond unusual effects then there are two avenues to pursue.

1) Get into issue writing, get noticed, become an editor and work with the editing team to bring about changes

or

2) Find another game.

[Caracasus]

501.1 lowers civil rights even though I'm making it so toddlers can't be dressed in sexual costumes and exploited, which I'd consider to be increasing their rights.

And you would be right. The civil rights stat often plays off the rights of several groups in your society, depending on where their starting points might be. In this instance, removing the rights of parents to hold beauty pageants slightly outweighed the rights of children not to be dragged round the things.

Hope this helps.

[Dwarfpolis]

I never specified the issue number because I knew I would get a dismissive reply, unless you are considering adding a HDI boost with the result I described first. You're right HDI has a really elaborate basis because it doesn't correlate neither with life expectancy nor with incomes as I have seen it inversely develop with both in some issue answers

I don't know where the general complaint thread is or if I should have just made an OP for that.

We don't add HDI boosts. HDI boosts occur when other changes happen. In another nation, that option might well lead to an HDI boost. Not yours though, it'd appear.

There is no general complaint thread. There is this thread, which is for when an issue effect seems very unusual. 7-8 times out of 10 it's not and a user has mis-read something or misinterpreted something. Most users are polite and play nicely with others, so most of us have no problems at all helping out and explaining. I never have a problem dealing with users who don't act like entitled babies who absolutely must be the centre of attention all the time - and to the 99% of you out there who don't - please do keep reporting these because sometimes they are very useful indeed. We know you don't have all the answers and don't have everything in front of you so it's understandable that people raise problems with issues where there are none. Hell, I did it often enough when I wasn't an editor.

Occasionally an issue effect will be wrong. Editors are human beings and we make mistakes. In the second case, this thread is very useful for troubleshooting. If you really have a problem with the issues on a fundamental level beyond unusual effects then there are two avenues to pursue.

1) Get into issue writing, get noticed, become an editor and work with the editing team to bring about changes

or

2) Find another game.

This conversation could have ended nicely if I didn't reply to Trotterdam's post. I made a general complaint, with a little hope that maybe 255.4 adds a HDI boost1 since something so trivial as banning homework also affects HDI. I did not elaborate my post because I understand the protocol here and don't expect a change. I am aware that HDI calculation in this game is entirely nonsensical because it does not seem to relate to any of the variables that HDI is calculated by but since my nation is statist and I'm an issues player aiming for a high HDI (a stat of mine which was getting pumelled hard for the last month also because of issues options that consequantially and logically wouldn't affect hdi hardl in a real life setting) I don't mind. That much.

What's was the problem?

1 - By "HDI boost" I meant that the issue result boosts HDI.

Edit: my intention is to continue reporting any unusual issue effects I get that bother me and not start an argument over a misunderstanding

[He Qixin]

I forgot the issue for this fallout, but here is the fallout anyway:

108 minutes ago: Following new legislation in He Qixin, supervisors in He Qixin commonly tie bells on their necks to alert employees of their presence.

Now I know whoever said the option which let to this fallout should increase employment if his/her option was chosen, but instead my employment decreased, and income equality increased, from a score of about 37 or so to about 39.

Why?

[Dwarfpolis]

Answering issue 685 with option 2 on an alt that was a bit underdeveloped raised both lifespan and health but reduced HDI.

[Caracasus]

I forgot the issue for this fallout, but here is the fallout anyway:

108 minutes ago: Following new legislation in He Qixin, supervisors in He Qixin commonly tie bells on their necks to alert employees of their presence.

Now I know whoever said the option which let to this fallout should increase employment if his/her option was chosen, but instead my employment decreased, and income equality increased, from a score of about 37 or so to about 39.

Why?

Without the issue number or title it is pretty hard to tell, but I did manage to track it down. Next time, give us the title or number of the issue please.

This issue has no stats problems and is working as intended as far as I can see.

Depending on what your (among other stats) economic freedom is like, different nations will see different effects here.

[He Qixin]

I forgot the issue for this fallout, but here is the fallout anyway:

108 minutes ago: Following new legislation in He Qixin, supervisors in He Qixin commonly tie bells on their necks to alert employees of their presence.

Now I know whoever said the option which let to this fallout should increase employment if his/her option was chosen, but instead my employment decreased, and income equality increased, from a score of about 37 or so to about 39.

Why?

Without the issue number or title it is pretty hard to tell, but I did manage to track it down. Next time, give us the title or number of the issue please.

This issue has no stats problems and is working as intended as far as I can see.

Depending on what your (among other stats) economic freedom is like, different nations will see different effects here.

Sorry; I forgot to. Anyway, thanks!

[Dwarfpolis]

Issue 280.3 destroyed my industry (very understandable) and decreased my HDI (not so much, because health increased)

Before I flood the thread with reports of this sort can I know how HDI actually works in the game?

[Picuros]

Issue 284.1 dropped my recreational drug use by 43%. Government-sponsored drug sale, very neutral blurb ("The government has begun selling heroin and ecstasy to help fund its projects.")

[Caracasus]

Issue 284.1 dropped my recreational drug use by 43%. Government-sponsored drug sale, very neutral blurb ("The government has begun selling heroin and ecstasy to help fund its projects.")

This option states that 1) The drug trade will need to be regulated, that 2) It will be nationalised and that 3) They'll also hand out pamphlets on the dangers of illegal drugs. That's why your drug trade took a hit.

[New Mushroom Kingdom]

Why did requiring motorcycle helmets and protective gear result in an 8% increase of income equality? That issue's other effects seem correct, but I'm not sure why it has a notable impact on those metrics. (Issue 456)

[Jutsa]

Before I flood the thread with reports of this sort can I know how HDI actually works in the game?

It actually tells you if you view the stat's chart:
"The World Census compiles a “Human Development Index” by measuring citizens’ average life expectancy, education, and income."

That's basically it. Health is probably also taken into account, but upon taking down your economy,
you've: a) lowered income, b) lowered education, and c) probably broke even with life expectancy.

Edit: I'd like to mention that you've still got a very good one; I've got pretty high stats in all those things, and I'm still only slightly ahead of you.

[VoVoDoCo]

There were three options: cut all departments "in half", conduct a study to see what needs to be cut, and preserve a recently discovered tribe of bureaucrats. I chose option two.

The stats were almost objectively terrible. I got

• Worsening environment
• Down economy
• Higher unemployment
• More crime
• Amongst other things.

All of that, from a 1.1% tax cut. And I already have low taxes.

Is this a bug? A known bug? Stat realignments I could only understand if I could look behind the curtain?

If it's that last one, I get it. I'm just curious.

[Jutsa]

I mean, it doesn't matter how big a tax cut it is — the fact is you cut funding to all departments, except possibly administration.

Less funding to environment is still a worse environment, as is the case with less funding towards business subsidization and a worse economy leading to less jobs*,
less welfare/social policy/transportation/education/law&order/jobs/income leading to crime rate, etc.

Taxes are pretty good, generally — and the game's not great at doing the calculations for its disadvantages,
although Average Disposable Income is an interesting stat to keep in mind. Definitely one of my harder decisions was choosing option 1 of that issue,
but I think it was worth it.

[New Emeline]

On the issue “a nude day, a nude awakening” I selected the option to allow people to make nice edits of my leader and my political freedom went down. Why is that?

[The Free Joy State]

On the issue “a nude day, a nude awakening” I selected the option to allow people to make nice edits of my leader and my political freedom went down. Why is that?

The short answer is always that where freedom and civil rights changes end depend on where you start. In your case, the change was pretty minimal, however, so it shouldn't take long to recover.

With this option, your leader's right to privacy (as well as that of everyone else in the public eye) is being invaded by giving people the right to do whatever they like with their image. So that would account for this change.