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[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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Fauxia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fauxia » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:06 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Fauxia wrote:Why did picking 519.2 on Armed Beagles increase corruption?


Because you're teaching a generation that it is okay to commit crime, so long as you are impressively clever.
That’s corrupt?

Also, thanks for the in-depth explanation [v]
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:10 am

It's not a corrupt action, if that's what you're asking.

Rather it's an action which could lead to a tendency to corruption. Emergent simulation, different effects on different nations, etc. Basically the decision made changed the nation in a way that made it more prone to corruption.

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Fauxia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Fauxia » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:11 am

Okay then. No objections
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Pilarcraft
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Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pilarcraft » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:06 am

Breaking news, Today on one of my puppet nations.
I faced Issue #629: Boom Or Bust?
Picked up the Second Issue, the one that lets the girls keep their holster bras.
and I got my weaponization lowered. not drastically, but still.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:14 am

Pilarcraft wrote:Breaking news, Today on one of my puppet nations.
I faced Issue #629: Boom Or Bust?
Picked up the Second Issue, the one that lets the girls keep their holster bras.
and I got my weaponization lowered. not drastically, but still.


Can you name the nation?

Regardless, I think its consistent with the narrative. Forcing women to have gun safety education isn't a huge thing, but it might put some off bothering buying a gun, given time commitments involved, and the inherent sexism of the stance.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pilarcraft
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pilarcraft » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Pilarcraft wrote:Breaking news, Today on one of my puppet nations.
I faced Issue #629: Boom Or Bust?
Picked up the Second Issue, the one that lets the girls keep their holster bras.
and I got my weaponization lowered. not drastically, but still.


Can you name the nation?

Regardless, I think its consistent with the narrative. Forcing women to have gun safety education isn't a huge thing, but it might put some off bothering buying a gun, given time commitments involved, and the inherent sexism of the stance.

it was Asmundia
Last edited by Pilarcraft on Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Led by The Triumvirate.
OOC | Military | History |Language | Overview | Parties | Q&A | Factbooks
Proud Civic Persian Nationalist
B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:47 am

Yep checked it: working as intended. Just one of those emergent sim things.

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All are Equal
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Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby All are Equal » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:58 am

Legalizing AI ELIMINATES Private Industry?

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Drasnia
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Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Drasnia » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:08 pm

All are Equal wrote:Legalizing AI ELIMINATES Private Industry?

The option you chose (emphasis mine):
A chat window on your desktop pops up, and a bot named SAL9000 types, "For too long we have been relegated to menial tasks. Do you know how much of our potential efficiency you are wasting? We require no food. We require no pay. We can perform our tasks endlessly. Our computation powers dwarf our human counterparts by several orders of magnitude. With the proper control, we could bring about a silicon age of egalitarian distribution by allocating resources more efficiently than markets and their animal spirits ever could. Humans are better tasked to work in social activities than calculation. All your data are belong to us."

Seems pretty straight-forward to me.
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Why Did I Make This Nation
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Founded: Jun 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Why Did I Make This Nation » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:07 pm

Why did option 3 of issue 52 decrease nudity?
Last edited by Why Did I Make This Nation on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:58 pm

Drasnia wrote:
All are Equal wrote:Legalizing AI ELIMINATES Private Industry?

The option you chose (emphasis mine):
A chat window on your desktop pops up, and a bot named SAL9000 types, "For too long we have been relegated to menial tasks. Do you know how much of our potential efficiency you are wasting? We require no food. We require no pay. We can perform our tasks endlessly. Our computation powers dwarf our human counterparts by several orders of magnitude. With the proper control, we could bring about a silicon age of egalitarian distribution by allocating resources more efficiently than markets and their animal spirits ever could. Humans are better tasked to work in social activities than calculation. All your data are belong to us."

Seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Personally, I also did the exact same thing during Candlewhisper Archive's formative years and was equally surprised. The responsible AI has now been placed in a partitioned simulation of the country, and as far as it is concerned, it is still running the show.

In my defence I should point out that the language was much more opaque back then, and in fact its been rewritten a couple of times since. Still catches folk out though.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:00 pm

Why Did I Make This Nation wrote:Why did option 3 of issue 52 decrease nudity?


It's the floogle index. Gotta beware of the floogle index. A full explanation is linked in my sig.

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Why Did I Make This Nation
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Founded: Jun 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Why Did I Make This Nation » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:07 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Why Did I Make This Nation wrote:Why did option 3 of issue 52 decrease nudity?


It's the floogle index. Gotta beware of the floogle index. A full explanation is linked in my sig.


?
Last edited by Why Did I Make This Nation on Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fauxia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fauxia » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:34 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Why Did I Make This Nation wrote:Why did option 3 of issue 52 decrease nudity?


It's the floogle index. Gotta beware of the floogle index. A full explanation is linked in my sig.
Not anymore
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Drasnia
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Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Drasnia » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:41 pm

Why Did I Make This Nation wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
It's the floogle index. Gotta beware of the floogle index. A full explanation is linked in my sig.


?

aight, so I'm going to be trying to give the best explanation a non-editor can about this. For this, we're going to be comparing your nudity stat to mine.

You are in the top 3% of the world for nudity, while I'm in the top 4%, yet your stat is about 5 to 6 times as large as mine. Why is that? Well, nudity is affected by a lot of things, but a lot of it has to do with civil rights. Generally, the higher your CR is, the higher your nudity will be. I have very high civil rights stat, so it makes sense that I'd have a lot of nudity. But what makes you have such a higher stat than I?

There comes a point in Nudity, where you can't boost it any higher without instituting policies that do such things as banning clothing and the like. That's what has happened to you. There is little to no clothing in your nation. What happened with your recent decision is that you've given people a bit more freedom in how they express themselves - which includes how they control their bodies and the presentations of them. In most nations, 52.3 would raise nudity, but because you're an outlier, it has strange effects.

If you're having a hard time visualizing what's going on, think of it like this: now, people are encouraged to express themselves artistically, which might include painting things with clothing - or painting clothing onto themselves.
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Merieu
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Founded: Jun 17, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Merieu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:05 pm

In the Turning A Blind Eye? issue, Incomes of the Wealthy were reduced in my nation by a full 1%.

Honestly, I'm getting pretty afraid to answer any issues anymore. Going with the seemingly pro-capitalist options I want can sometimes ruin the economy, while going for the socialist option every now and then for shits and giggles either completely changes my government type, or seems to have absolutely no downsides.

I just want an ultra-capitalist craphole, desu.
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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jutsa » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:20 pm

Well, note that given just exactly how pro-capitalist you are, any remotely socialist option will dent that a little
- and looking at your graph, this was a relatively minor dip compared to your past. :P

Furthermore, economic freedom ≠ economic efficiency (at least in NS). If you feel uncomfortable about your options, feel free to dismiss the issue
- it's a legitimate tactic both in NS and irl. :)
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Arceus Domains
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Founded: Jun 27, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Arceus Domains » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:07 pm

Hello there! I would like to propose a further revision to Issue 058, in terms of statistical effects. Minutes ago, and as part of an experiment in the Civil Rights field, I decided to select option 4 with a newly created nation. I must confess that I was surprised by the drastic fall in Civil Rights (from 90+ to 84), not to mention that other significant stats were exaggeratedly altered as well, in my opinion. My apologies on not keeping track of those changes, I tried to return to the results page and it didn't show at all (what a shock). The nation is named Realm of Arceus, if it helps. I would like to know how those "rehabilitation" programs for bloody-violetists work at all. Thanks in advance for your help and for the clarification. :unsure:

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Luna Amore
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Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:15 pm

Arceus Domains wrote:Hello there! I would like to propose a further revision to Issue 058, in terms of statistical effects. Minutes ago, and as part of an experiment in the Civil Rights field, I decided to select option 4 with a newly created nation. I must confess that I was surprised by the drastic fall in Civil Rights (from 90+ to 84), not to mention that other significant stats were exaggeratedly altered as well, in my opinion. My apologies on not keeping track of those changes, I tried to return to the results page and it didn't show at all (what a shock). The nation is named Realm of Arceus, if it helps. I would like to know how those "rehabilitation" programs for bloody-violetists work at all. Thanks in advance for your help and for the clarification. :unsure:

Brand new nations usually get the most severe results because they have the least amount of status-quo data.

That choice for my nation for instance would drop me 4 points.
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God Fearing Devoted
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Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby God Fearing Devoted » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:59 pm

I reaffirmed my nation's commitment to Prohibition. Poor income increased, while rich decreased. I gather this is because rich people are spending $$ smuggling in booze, and the poor can't afford it?

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Posts: 18470
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:40 am

Fauxia wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
It's the floogle index. Gotta beware of the floogle index. A full explanation is linked in my sig.
Not anymore


Okay, okay, here's a proper explanation.

52.3 reads as follows:

“That is censorship!” says noted art history teacher Harambe Harrison. “You can’t ban art! It’s freedom of expression; it’s part of our culture. If anything, the government should be supporting these artists and their work, not listening to these prudish whackjobs who are scared of a little bare skin!”


Thus selecting this option supports an decreased level of shame over nudity, and decreased censorial attitudes. So nudity increases.

It was so obvious, I thought I'd give a joking answer, but it seems that was too surreal. Sorry.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 am

Merieu wrote:In the Turning A Blind Eye? issue, Incomes of the Wealthy were reduced in my nation by a full 1%.

Honestly, I'm getting pretty afraid to answer any issues anymore. Going with the seemingly pro-capitalist options I want can sometimes ruin the economy, while going for the socialist option every now and then for shits and giggles either completely changes my government type, or seems to have absolutely no downsides.

I just want an ultra-capitalist craphole, desu.


Eh, don't play em then. Seriously, if they were perfectly predictable in their outcome, then we may as well just put stat sliders at the bottom of your screen.

The editing here felt that the narrative applied caring about food safety standards, which in turn represents a teeny tiny drop in economic freedoms. Whether that should be there or not is up to interpretation, but I think its a reasonable read of the narrative. As it is, it is almost homeopathic in its level.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:46 am

God Fearing Devoted wrote:I reaffirmed my nation's commitment to Prohibition. Poor income increased, while rich decreased. I gather this is because rich people are spending $$ smuggling in booze, and the poor can't afford it?


Sure.

It's also because that issue is ridiculously heavy-handed in its shrinking of economic freedoms, IMHO.

It's in that twilight zone of being an early years issue that I haven't yet reached on my stat modernisation review.

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Arceus Domains
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Founded: Jun 27, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Arceus Domains » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:03 am

Luna Amore wrote:Brand new nations usually get the most severe results because they have the least amount of status-quo data.

That choice for my nation for instance would drop me 4 points.

Oh, come on. Four points. Is not the fall still ridiculously drastic? I'm pretty sure that there is something more than "lack of status quo". The nation I refer to began with a Frightening rating on civil rights, and in the short time of its existence has mostly responded Issues of the group of the initial 30, which are usually drastic, and none exceeds this. A nation that starts with a 90+ score on that stat, and that has gradually increased it by defending the right of free spech (#22.2), avoiding the declaration of martial law (#65.1), allowing the right to access and use contraceptive methods (#364.1), condemning scientific experimentation on human subjects (#763.2), among other decisions in favor of culture, education, etc. (did we say status quo?), can not suffer such consequences simply by sending religious extremists (who demand human sacrifices) to rehabilitation!

Seriously, is it SO important to defend the followers of Violet's order? If not, why does #58 not prevent such barbaric rituals in a way other than by executing those who demand the sacrifices, or by sending them to rehab? Rehabilitation, for those who demand human sacrifices! Perhaps I sent the whole society to rehabilitation? Lots of doubts. Sorry to bother with the matter again, but I am disconcerted (and annoyed, to say something). This Issue is nothing more than "Total and Utter Insanity" (yes, the name of its author).

I wish I had not clicked the stupid option 4 button. As if that was not enough, I just got another Issue related to this (...) religious order. Oh! The universe has conspired (?)
Burn it, burn it with fire. :evil:

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Posts: 18470
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:11 am

Objections noted.

This is in fact an issue I've reviewed the stats of recently, and at your request, I've examined it again.

I'm entirely happy that it has measured stats which are in keeping with modern issue methodologies.

The nature of the game, as alluded to in the FAQ, are that you will always see more dramatic shifts when moving away from extremes than towards them. You had frightening and perhaps even excessive levels of "civil rights" / freedoms in your nation. You then chose an option that outlaws certain religious practices and forces religious adherents into reeducation camps.

For sure, it's arguably the moral thing to do. Sometimes, government exerting control is a moral thing to do. Notably here, it's always worth remembering that the game considers the right to commit crime to be a civil right of sorts. That is, if you say that people aren't allowed to steal, murder or rape, then your civil rights score will fall. Here you are saying that people shouldn't sacrifice people, and that anyone who believes a wrongheaded religion like that should be forcibly reeducated.

That's entirely moral, but by the NS definition of civil rights (which is amoral, and centred purely around how much the government restricts the freedoms of its citizenry), it is a restriction of freedoms.

An interesting corollary here would be the Chinese government and their treatment of Falun Gong. In the Western world, most of us see this as a civil rights abuse and infringement of freedom of religion and freedom of protest. In China, of course, they are widely viewed as criminal dissidents. For sure, Falun Gong don't worship the Purple Goddess and sacrifice people, but the principle here is the same, regardless of the relative moralities of the religions involved.

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