[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Ko-oren]

548.1 lowered my eco-friendliness by quite a bit (1.2%). It also lowered Public Education (-1.3%).

I don't encounter too many ecological issues, so it's going to take quite a while to regain these stats.

Edit: Same with 937.1 (-0.71%).

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

216.2 causes my income equality to increase, which seems wrong. Allowing private industry to seize the property of often-poorer citizens should increase income inequality, rather than decreasing it. I could see such uses for private-construction eminent domain such as gentrification that would certainly not make a more equitable society...

[Polis Diamonil]

If you look at the graphs in Polis Diamonil, you'll see a huge plunge in civil rights four days ago. If you look at the issue choice history across the last four days, you'll see that my issue action that day was #721-1 ("serial commas clarify the relationship between one's lackeys, the taxpayers, and kinsfolk") which does not affect civil rights.

Five days ago, vegetarianism was instituted in Polis Diamonil, which DID reduce civil rights significantly. Did that effect land on the wrong day somehow? What's up with my graphs?

[SherpDaWerp]

If you look at the graphs in Polis Diamonil, you'll see a huge plunge in civil rights four days ago. If you look at the issue choice history across the last four days, you'll see that my issue action that day was #721-1 ("serial commas clarify the relationship between one's lackeys, the taxpayers, and kinsfolk") which does not affect civil rights.

Five days ago, vegetarianism was instituted in Polis Diamonil, which DID reduce civil rights significantly. Did that effect land on the wrong day somehow? What's up with my graphs?

A couple days ago one of the Admins made a tracker for update so they could find out why it's taking so long, but that had the unintended side effect of stopping Update from running automatically, and then instead of manually triggering a major, they accidentally triggered a minor, which means a bunch of stat-related things went wonky. Population, for instance, only updates at major, so there were no population updates that day.

It's possible that your graph issue could have been caused by this.

[Uan aa Boa]

I've just found with a puppet nation that in Real Handwriting has Curves the option to give laptops to school kids doesn't cancel the No Computers policy.

[Drew Durrnil]

I just banned planes and my Timber Woodchipping stat just tanked 54% (490 --> 223)

[Noahs Second Country]

I just banned planes and my Timber Woodchipping stat just tanked 54% (490 --> 223)

I wouldn't call that tanking. Industries can regularly change by a couple hundred points at a time.

Look at all of the little fluctuations in this graph, for example.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I've just found with a puppet nation that in Real Handwriting has Curves the option to give laptops to school kids doesn't cancel the No Computers policy.

Easiest fix seemed to be to close the issue to nations who have banned computers, so done that.

[Fauzjhia]

Issues 363.4 removes atheism policy

this was option
4. "Bah! Ridiculous gobbledygook, all of it!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, controversial atheist author of the book 'Atoms in Space and Relations Between Them - An Exhaustive Account of Existence'. "These cultists are no crazier than any other religious types, and have done far less damage than some I might mention. Take this opportunity to disavow all religion as superstitious nonsense, and throw your support behind reason instead. It's the perfect opportunity to end the tax breaks for people with imaginary friends, and funnel that additional money into the areas it can do some real good, like authors of popular science books!"

After I choose with Jufhizlhere, I lost atheism policy.

[The Free Joy State]

Issues 363.4 removes atheism policy

this was option
4. "Bah! Ridiculous gobbledygook, all of it!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, controversial atheist author of the book 'Atoms in Space and Relations Between Them - An Exhaustive Account of Existence'. "These cultists are no crazier than any other religious types, and have done far less damage than some I might mention. Take this opportunity to disavow all religion as superstitious nonsense, and throw your support behind reason instead. It's the perfect opportunity to end the tax breaks for people with imaginary friends, and funnel that additional money into the areas it can do some real good, like authors of popular science books!"

After I choose with Jufhizlhere, I lost atheism policy.

Have you had that issue sitting there awhile?

Because, while I see why you would have lost your atheism policy, someone with the atheism policy oughtn't to have been eligible?

EDIT: Okay, here's what happened, as best as I can work out from taking a peek at your nation backstage. You received two issues -- both of which you were eligible for at the time -- you answered the first (which gave you the atheism policy), then answered the second -- issue #363 (which you were no longer eligible for, as your nation's stats had changed), which cancelled your newly received policy.

The issue is working correctly, it was just an unfortunate chain of events.

Unfortunately, the only thing you can do is wait for a new issue, so that you can regain the policy.

[Notrumbia]

...

[State of Turelisa]

I lost my national policy of theocracy after choosing the first option of ISSUE 983 Doctors' Orders

There have been an increasing number of complaints as some doctors refuse to provide abortions and other medical treatments to patients on religious grounds. As you wait in a hospital waiting room for a routine physical, a colorful collection of activists have begun pestering you.

OPTION 1 - “Freedom of religion is under attack in @@NAME@@!” declares Dr. Max Pushkin, who is bedecked in so many religious symbols that he can’t reach his stethoscope. “The government has made it obvious that they want to force doctors of faith to violate their conscience by performing procedures that go against deeply held beliefs, including the immoral act of abortion. It’s appalling to try and force anyone to choose between their job and their religion. Every doctor must be able to refuse to treat anyone if it would contravene their beliefs in any way, shape or form.”

Another national policy of State of Turelisa was 'No Abortion.' That has disappeared, too.

[Gnejs]

It’s not a policy that turns on and off by picking certain options, but rather it’s calculated based on your stats in different areas, please see the opening post of this thread. In short: by picking that option you granted more freedom to practitioners of all kinds of beliefs, not only those adhering to some sort of official religion. This moved you in a direction that cancelled “theocracy”. I can see you don’t have the “no abortion” policy, but that has nothing to do with this issue. If you had it at some point, it was another issue you answered that canceled it.

[Aguaria Major]

This isn't necessarily an 'unusual' effect per se since this effect is stated (but buried) in the option, but I couldn't figure out where else to ask this question:

Option 2 for the issue "Much Ado About Everything" bans the internet. I picked that option having not fully read the entire thing, since the guy arguing for said position makes a massive leap in logic, i.e. "people are being too sensitive online, so let's ban the internet".

Banning the internet was never my intention since my nation believes in free speech, and I am wondering: which issue, if any, will reverse this policy?

Also: why didn't this unwitting decision also tank my civil rights?

[The Free Joy State]

This isn't necessarily an 'unusual' effect per se since this effect is stated (but buried) in the option, but I couldn't figure out where else to ask this question:

Option 2 for the issue "Much Ado About Everything" bans the internet. I picked that option having not fully read the entire thing, since the guy arguing for said position makes a massive leap in logic, i.e. "people are being too sensitive online, so let's ban the internet".

Banning the internet was never my intention since my nation believes in free speech, and I am wondering: which issue, if any, will reverse this policy?

Also: why didn't this unwitting decision also tank my civil rights?

Issue #1267 is focused on reversing the internet ban.

As for why your civil rights didn't tank. There are appropriate changes programmed, and your civil rights did drop from 72.57 to 72.24, but over time the changes generally start becoming smaller and less significant. This happens naturally in the game with all stats as you maintain the direction of a nation.

[Aguaria Major]

This isn't necessarily an 'unusual' effect per se since this effect is stated (but buried) in the option, but I couldn't figure out where else to ask this question:

Option 2 for the issue "Much Ado About Everything" bans the internet. I picked that option having not fully read the entire thing, since the guy arguing for said position makes a massive leap in logic, i.e. "people are being too sensitive online, so let's ban the internet".

Banning the internet was never my intention since my nation believes in free speech, and I am wondering: which issue, if any, will reverse this policy?

Also: why didn't this unwitting decision also tank my civil rights?

Issue #1267 is focused on reversing the internet ban.

As for why your civil rights didn't tank. There are appropriate changes programmed, and your civil rights did drop from 72.57 to 72.24, but over time the changes generally start becoming smaller and less significant. This happens naturally in the game with all stats as you maintain the direction of a nation.

Thank you for the info! I will keep my eyes peeled for #1267.

[Pig Farm]

Hi there,

Choosing 1099.2's LANDSPOT satellite (shown below) decreased my agriculture industry. Actually LANDSPOT would probably improve agriculture and maybe any landscape-oriented industry. It's real world equivalents (LANDSAT, SPOT, others) improve agriculture, forestry, etc. At least, the farmers and corporations who use the data (directly or through third-party vendors) think so. See https://doi.org/10.3133/ofr20171034 for one study:

"Landsat and agriculture—Case studies on the uses and benefits of Landsat imagery in agricultural monitoring and production"

Excerpt:

"Increasing Yield.—Highlights the primary benefit of zone mapping using Landsat imagery. Using 5-year market average prices for a number of commodities, this section provides examples of how yield increases translate into higher returns for farmers."

How that translates into NS, I haven't a clue. Probably not a decrease, though.

I liked the "LANDSPOT" name!

Edit: Oh, LANDSAT isn't the best at mining (prospecting), but a LANDSPOT with better sensors might be. Satellites can be used for odd things, like detecting penguin colonies from space, by all the poop they leave on the ground.

#1099: New Satellite Blues [Ransium; ed: Pogaria]

The @@NAME@@ Aeronautics and Space Administration (@@NAMEINITIALS@@ASA) is currently reviewing proposals for a new flagship satellite project. Debates about the merits of each plan have become so intense that a recent fight resulted in thousands of @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ in damage to pocket protectors, calculators, and glasses. Agency heads have therefore deferred to you to decide which project should be chosen.

2. "I find my colleague's position to be myopic and self-serving," declares remote sensing specialist @@RANDOMNAME@@, who is sporting a black eye and torn suspenders. "Who cares what's happening a million light-years away? Our real problems are much more local. Right now, man is causing rapid changes to the surface of our planet, endangering major ecosystems. The best way to understand these changes is from space. My proposed LANDSPOT satellite will be equipped with cutting-edge tools such as hyperspectral imaging and advanced LIDAR, giving us a whole new perspective on this little blue marble we call home."

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

I've just selected option 91.4, which mandates everyone worship and donate to @@FAITH@@, and I'm puzzled as to how this didn't award the banner "Holy Water". Said banner requires that I "Support @@FAITH@@", and if there's a requirement for the "Religiousness" stat I should be in there too (I'm in the top 3% of the world) — am I missing something? I understand the game likes to be pretty mysterious about banners, and also that's not strictly the point of this thread, so sorry if this isn't an appropriate question; I was just wondering if it was perhaps a problem overlooked.

The full option text:

The Honorable @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Minding Other People's Business, has an idea: "This religion thing is such a great racket, why don't we make it a government monopoly? We'll ban all religions except @@FAITH@@, and make attendance and donations compulsory. I'll start writing the Holy Proclamation right away!"

[The United Universe]

1164.1 increased my environmental beauty. Unless having people make a mess of the environment inspires others to clean it up, this makes no sense

#1164: What a Gneiss Place We've Got Here [Chan Island; ed: Luna Amore]

The Issue
A vast and seemingly endless new cave system has just been discovered in a remote section of Violetstone National Park! Despite not even having a name yet, petitioners are crowding your office telling you what to do with it.

The Debate
1. "I'm ready. Let's do this!" shouts renowned adrenaline junkie, Weevil Knievel, waving a headlamp at you. "I am going to be the first person to ever explore this cave. It would be yet another feather in the cap of my already stellar career! Yes, I know it's a nine day off-road trek into sensitive ecosystems. Yes, I know it will be fraught with danger and intrigue. That's the whole point! Give me the green light... and, while you're at it, a camera crew."

2. "You can't be serious?" chastises @@RANDOMNAME@@, the head of the advocacy group 'No Safety, Know Pain'. "Who knows what kind of beasts and perils might be lurking in there? Imagine this @@LEADER@@: a good, wholesome @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ family, out having a picnic in the splendor of Violetstone National Park. Suddenly, a rare horn-billed @@ANIMAL@@ skitters by, distracting the parents. Their young son wanders off, gets lost in this deathtrap of a cave and dies! Do you want that hypothetical boy's blood on your conscience? You must protect your citizens and seal this cave for our safety."

3. "Whoop-dee-doo, there's a new cave! Get over it," snorts @@RANDOMNAME@@, one of Violetstone's junior rangers. "You know what else is still there? Any number of trees, flowers, bunnies — you name it — all happily undisturbed by human activities. I say we keep it that way with a boost to the park budget. With more money, we can crack down on anyone who tries to illegally enter prohibited areas."

[The Free Joy State]

Hi there,

Choosing 1099.2's LANDSPOT satellite (shown below) decreased my agriculture industry. Actually LANDSPOT would probably improve agriculture and maybe any landscape-oriented industry. It's real world equivalents (LANDSAT, SPOT, others) improve agriculture, forestry, etc. At least, the farmers and corporations who use the data (directly or through third-party vendors) think so. See https://doi.org/10.3133/ofr20171034 for one study:

"Landsat and agriculture—Case studies on the uses and benefits of Landsat imagery in agricultural monitoring and production"

Excerpt:

"Increasing Yield.—Highlights the primary benefit of zone mapping using Landsat imagery. Using 5-year market average prices for a number of commodities, this section provides examples of how yield increases translate into higher returns for farmers."

How that translates into NS, I haven't a clue. Probably not a decrease, though.

Agriculture is what we call a secondary stat, which means that different nations may observe different changes (anything from a fall, to no change to a rise), depending on the how the nation's own stats interact with the stats input.

As for guaranteeing a rise, the way stats work is that they try to focus on effects promised or directly foreseeable from the option. Although your use of studies is highly appreciated, this option focuses on protecting the ecosystem, not on boosting agriculture. Not every player would anticipate a rise in their agriculture industry from this option (nor would it be desirable for some players, who try to trash their economies deliberately).

Therefore, no change will be made.

I've just selected option 91.4, which mandates everyone worship and donate to @@FAITH@@, and I'm puzzled as to how this didn't award the banner "Holy Water". Said banner requires that I "Support @@FAITH@@", and if there's a requirement for the "Religiousness" stat I should be in there too (I'm in the top 3% of the world) — am I missing something? I understand the game likes to be pretty mysterious about banners, and also that's not strictly the point of this thread, so sorry if this isn't an appropriate question; I was just wondering if it was perhaps a problem overlooked.

The full option text:

The Honorable @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Minding Other People's Business, has an idea: "This religion thing is such a great racket, why don't we make it a government monopoly? We'll ban all religions except @@FAITH@@, and make attendance and donations compulsory. I'll start writing the Holy Proclamation right away!"

You have not met the specific threshold for that particular banner just yet.

Everything's working as intended.

1164.1 increased my environmental beauty. Unless having people make a mess of the environment inspires others to clean it up, this makes no sense

This is basically to do with two conflicting interest in nature pulling against each other, and being represented in your stats: you're raising people's interest in nature (by exploring the undiscovered ecosystem) while simultaneously trashing it by the camera crew (you'll notice you did take a hit on your eco-friendliness, from 1,033.03 to 946.85).

As your environmental beauty was rather on the low side, results that may not have made much of a difference for other players seemed rather significant.

[Pig Farm]

Hi there,

Choosing 1099.2's LANDSPOT satellite ...

How that translates into NS, I haven't a clue. Probably not a decrease, though.

Agriculture is …

Therefore, no change will be made.
.

Ah, OK, thanks for taking the time to explain!

[Honeydewistania]

For the friends of Spartacus issue, why did making it illegal drip my wealth gaps by 20%! The heck?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

For the friends of Spartacus issue, why did making it illegal drip my wealth gaps by 20%! The heck?

You should know better than to report in this way.

Nation. Date issue received. Name of issue. That's essential information.

As to the query, making it illegal to liberate slaves is a limitation on the economic autonomy of slave owners.

The change in wealth gaps is secondary to that --- wealth gaps are based on a lot of things, but in this case it's the infringement on economic autonomy that has reduced wealth gaps. That's a little quirky in this circumstance, but is part of the emergent sim and limited granularity of the toolset rather than an intentional decision specific to this story. That'll happen in a lot of places -- whenever you restrict economic freedoms, expect wage gaps to shrink, even if that's the economic freedoms of corporations, or slave owners, or billionaires. That's just how the sim functions.

No change made.

216.2 causes my income equality to increase, which seems wrong. Allowing private industry to seize the property of often-poorer citizens should increase income inequality, rather than decreasing it. I could see such uses for private-construction eminent domain such as gentrification that would certainly not make a more equitable society...

Same thing, basically.

As this has come up a few times I've added a new FAQ.

[Honeydewistania]

For the friends of Spartacus issue, why did making it illegal drip my wealth gaps by 20%! The heck?

You should know better than to report in this way.

Nation. Date issue received. Name of issue. That's essential information.

Sorry...

[Nepleslia]

Name of Nation: Nepleslia
Name of Issue: #32. One Wife Is Never Enough, Say Polygamists
Date Received: 07/02/2020

My nation received the "Permanent Marriage" policy after I went with the issue's second option; although the choice's mention of "until death do we part" admittedly hints at the aforementioned policy, it does not clearly signify that said policy will be enacted if the choice is chosen - nor does it even hint at the existence of the policy in the first place.