[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Hey uhm, I was reading, and I noticed Trot brought up that 1022.2 was received by nations without prisons, and didn't install prisons.
It could be because my head's been scatterbrained for days(long story), but I didn't happen to come across any mention of that being changed...
was it changed? Or does it really need to be changed?

Luna covered it a few posts back. Short answer: fixed.

[Roman-Britannic Empire]

Arrrgh

So I had this issue about Violent Violitists wanting blood (issue 58 I think?). One time I had the issue I allowed human sacrifices to be made. it lowered Civil Rights. It did so 3 times over 5 months when it repeated itself.

So Today I wanted to re-educate them. CR should go up right? Nope! It went down 1%.

So letting human sacrifices lowers CR but educating the religious people do not go for HUMAN sacrifices also lowers it. I just want to be a benevolent dictatorship with CR 82!

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Arrrgh

So I had this issue about Violent Violitists wanting blood (issue 58 I think?). One time I had the issue I allowed human sacrifices to be made. it lowered Civil Rights. It did so 3 times over 5 months when it repeated itself.

So Today I wanted to re-educate them. CR should go up right? Nope! It went down 1%.

So letting human sacrifices lowers CR but educating the religious people do not go for HUMAN sacrifices also lowers it. I just want to be a benevolent dictatorship with CR 82!

Good point!

Have made some fixes, and this should work better in future.

[Isla Bucanero]

I recently got issue 764 Dude where's my representative?

I chose option 3 to make my politicians learn regional history and this caused my national intelligence to go down. I just don't see how that follows.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I recently got issue 764 Dude where's my representative?

I chose option 3 to make my politicians learn regional history and this caused my national intelligence to go down. I just don't see how that follows.

By a smidgen, sure. It's a complex simulation, and Intelligence can be effected by a whole bunch of different factors.

The intelligence drop wasn't a directly coded instruction, but rather a knock on effect from other changes, primarily relating to overall freedoms.

[Roman-Britannic Empire]

Good point!

Have made some fixes, and this should work better in future.

Which option should I chose (now that you fixed it) for CR?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Good point!

Have made some fixes, and this should work better in future.

Which option should I chose (now that you fixed it) for CR?

Yeah, that's not how this works.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Date/time: 2 hours ago

Issue number: 90
Title: Organic Outburst
About: Use of pesticides in farming
Choices: 1. Go organic (ban pesticide use) 2. Approve industrial pesticides 3. Ban ALL pollutive industries
Nasty surprise: Option 2: approve the use of pesticide in large-scale commercial agriculture instead boosts beverage sales, pizza delivery, and OBESITY with only a TINY benefit to agriculture and TINY reduction in income tax (for my nation); all at the cost of MASSIVE environmental losses. Moreover, under the 'safety banner' of hyperbole/black humour, the way the case was laid out for option 2 uses highly manipulative language by equating industrial pesticides with "sacrificing children at the altar of progress"... (see here for additional commentary.)

*** BE FOREWARNED ***

[Frisbeeteria]

*snip*

I don't know what game you've been playing, but here in NationStates, Nasty surprises and highly manipulative language are not just par for the course, but the intended outcome. They're supposed to give you unexpected outcomes and unpleasant surprises.

If those sorts of things bother you, perhaps you should stop answering issues. Either way, you should probably stop posting trollish complaints about them.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

If those sorts of things bother you, perhaps you should stop answering issues. Either way, you should probably stop posting trollish complaints about them.

If you guys were to do away with logic and reason altogether, I just might stop playing. Afterall, minus intelligent forecast players' choices become completely pointless. For eg. compare Issue #90 pesticides -5 weather, Issue #151 HYDROGEN BOMB -7 weather. Lol.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Weather is a weird stat, and we don't consider it's movements when coding issues.

Probably not worth reporting any unexpected effects regarding weather.

I'll amend the OP to mention this, thanks for flagging.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Weather is a weird stat, and we don't consider it's movements when coding issues.

Probably not worth reporting any unexpected effects regarding weather.

I'll amend the OP to mention this, thanks for flagging.

I agree that Weather is a unique stat, not really intended to reflect air pollution. Why? Because then newly-created nations would not have started off with 100 Weather, but 1,000 or even 10,000 - making it extremely hard to turn this stat negative.

Negative sunlight received = nation is GIVING OFF LIGHT. That's OZ-brand wits.

P.S. still doesn't explain why issue 90 opt.2 allowing fertilizer use gave such little increase to agriculture but boosted OBESITY, beverage sales and pizza delivery.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Negative sunlight received = nation is GIVING OFF LIGHT. That's OZ-brand wits.

Naa, the unit of measurement is derived from reading off the pressure gauge in a phlogiston-filled photometer, with a 1 square-meter vantablack plate catching sunlight when placed perpendicular to the sun-earth axis. Obviously.

I mean next thing you'll be telling me you don't know how the Kardashian Reflex Score is calculated. Don't they teach this stuff at school any more?

P.S. still doesn't explain why issue 90 opt.2 allowing fertilizer use gave such little increase to agriculture but boosted OBESITY, beverage sales and pizza delivery.

Thanks for the report. Please state the nation name, and the date the issue was received.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

P.S. still doesn't explain why issue 90 opt.2 allowing fertilizer use gave such little increase to agriculture but boosted OBESITY, beverage sales and pizza delivery.

Thanks for the report. Please state the nation name, and the date the issue was received.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=424650&p=34402825#p34402825

This is my only nation/account.

[Ransium]

It's always bothered me that weather is measured in watts per meter of sunlight and not square meters. Watts per meter makes zero sense.

[Trotterdam]

It's always bothered me that weather is measured in watts per meter of sunlight and not square meters. Watts per meter makes zero sense.

Watts?

Where does it say anything about watts?

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Date/time: 30 mins ago

Issue 509 "It Was Asbestos Times, It Was The Worst Of Times"

Option 2: funding medical cure & increase healthcare budget did nothing for Lifespan whatsoever (but did boost Public Healthcare and Safety as described).

[The Free Joy State]

Date/time: 30 mins ago

Issue 509 "It Was Asbestos Times, It Was The Worst Of Times"

Option 2: funding medical cure & increase healthcare budget did nothing for Lifespan whatsoever (but did boost Public Healthcare and Safety as described).

Lifespan is an entirely secondary effect that's not directly controlled by any one stat. Basically, the various stats that are programmed into that issue all play off against each other so you may or may not receive a boost to lifespan.

It's working as intended.

[Lamaredia]

Issue 597, "You Can't Handle the Tooth", encountered today on this nation.

I opened up for stronger prescription painkillers, and nudity went up. What's the correlation there?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Issue 597, "You Can't Handle the Tooth", encountered today on this nation.

I opened up for stronger prescription painkillers, and nudity went up. What's the correlation there?

Freedom.

In-universe, whether there's a direct causation or whether we're simulating a more complex correlation is up to you, but generally more freedom = more nudity.

[Trotterdam]

So, I just noticed that #718 option 2 legalizes marriage, even though the option itself does not mention marriage at all (only dating), and dating of some form is endorsed as happening in all options (not just this one). Why would it do this? Meanwhile, option 3 actually does explicitly mention marriage, but I have confirmed as recently as 4 days ago that it can be selected on nations with No Marriage without cancelling the policy. (The mention of "bachelors" and "bachelorettes" in the opening also implies the existence of marriage - without marriage, it would be meaningful to talk about virgins, but not bachelors.)

[The Free Joy State]

So, I just noticed that #718 option 2 legalizes marriage, even though the option itself does not mention marriage at all (only dating), and dating of some form is endorsed as happening in all options (not just this one). Why would it do this? Meanwhile, option 3 actually does explicitly mention marriage, but I have confirmed as recently as 4 days ago that it can be selected on nations with No Marriage without cancelling the policy. (The mention of "bachelors" and "bachelorettes" in the opening also implies the existence of marriage - without marriage, it would be meaningful to talk about virgins, but not bachelors.)

Actually, talk about virgins would be meaningless as well, with or without marriage, that just implies someone who's never had sex, whereas a "bachelor" implies someone who's never been married.

The two are not the same at all.

Nevertheless, I see that that's not well telegraphed, so I'm adding a validity so that only nations with marriage can get it.

[Nostovya]

In the issue Little Green Men, it is possible for a nation to allow separatist groups to secede from the state, and furthermore to withhold public utilities from the secessionists. This results in a reduction to the policy of Public Protest. Why is this? Surely in the event that a territory secedes from the state, said state has no further obligation, legal or moral, to provide public utilities to what is now a legally and functionally distinct state? If a state allows a separatist group or territory to secede without contest, is that not a superlative affirmation of the right to protest?

[The Free Joy State]

In the issue Little Green Men, it is possible for a nation to allow separatist groups to secede from the state, and furthermore to withhold public utilities from the secessionists. This results in a reduction to the policy of Public Protest. Why is this? Surely in the event that a territory secedes from the state, said state has no further obligation, legal or moral, to provide public utilities to what is now a legally and functionally distinct state? If a state allows a separatist group or territory to secede without contest, is that not a superlative affirmation of the right to protest?

You chose option four, which is not affirming the right to seceed without protest, but rather making it as difficult as possible for secessionists, in the hopes they'll fail. This is the option you chose:

"Some province wants to secede? Let 'em try," opines @@RANDOMNAME@@, who doesn't seem to be taking this meeting seriously. "The South still depends on @@DEMONYM@@ electricity. Let's see how fun their lives are with blackouts day after day."

In effect, this option stifles protest by cutting off their power. Cutting off necessary power -- and thus heat and light -- is a way of suppressing protest.

Not every nation would notice such a marked change. It was only because your civil rights in this area were very good before that it made a difference. In very restrictive nations, it would make no difference to civil rights and protest at all.

[Trotterdam]

Actually, talk about virgins would be meaningless as well, with or without marriage, that just implies someone who's never had sex, whereas a "bachelor" implies someone who's never been married.

My point is, in a nation without marriage, everyone would be a bachelor(ette), so the term would be meaningless. There would still be both virgins and non-virgins, so that term would still be meaningful, and vaguely comparable (but not identical) to the role bachelors have in other nations.

I'm not actually saying to change the text to using that, though, just explaining why such a nation wouldn't talk about bachelors.