[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Candlewhisper Archive]

67's option 3, which is supposed to enact the "Devolution" policy, didn't enact it for me.

That's a problem right there.

The Devolution policy is currently only enabled for democracies. Since you are an autocracy, it won't show for you. However, you do kind of still have it - it's invisible, but it'll automatically reappear if you ever become democratic.

The suggestion the Devolution should still be possible under non-democracies is under review, but something appears to be holding the process up.

Review is done. Agreement is in place for the change, but its now on the joblist of the technical team.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

OMG A MIRACLEI REMOVED THREE POLICIES I WANTED TO REMOVE IN JUST ONE DAY
Ok
so,
devolution didn't decrease government size (which is good anyways)

You've been told multiple times how to make unexpected effect reports.

If you can't do so, don't expect responses from the editing team.

I see you're being warned off spamming elsewhere in the site. Please try harder in GI.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Issue 188 "Video Games Too Violent, Say Parent"
Date/time: 30 mins ago

Choosing option 3 (age restriction) did not affect I.T. industry at all. I expected a moderate drop. Is it because I had picked the same choice when this issue was previously answered? (In other words, the restrictions were already in place - then why did economic freedom drop AGAIN?)

Agree, a small IT industry drop seems appropriate. Added that.

Re: economic freedom, this is because the decision is not individually tracked, so when it comes round again the game state doesn't know you've picked it before, and gives you the same stat change each time.

The vast majority of decisions in this game are not individually tracked, and picking the same option again will reinforce the stat effects.

Look on it not so much as the effect of an individual decision, more as the simulation estimating your nation's stance according to data provided to it across all issues as a whole, with your economic freedom reflecting the data total of all decisions made, regardless of their individual narratives.

In other words, the game works that way, and has always worked that way.

The best way to mitigate and diminish that effect is to have more issues in the game, as then by the time they roll around again it's likely that contexts will have changed, player memories will have forgotten previously answering the issue, and so on. It's all a grand illusion, obviously, but more issues = a better illusion.

[Lamaredia]

Nation: Lamaredia
Date: Today, 20th of July 2018
Issue: 719

I chose the option to allow the Violetstone tribe to recover their remains, and authoritarianism went up. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Nation: Lamaredia
Date: Today, 20th of July 2018
Issue: 719

I chose the option to allow the Violetstone tribe to recover their remains, and authoritarianism went up. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I agree that doesn't look right, but I think in fact freedoms should not be impacted at all by 719.1

Amended.

[Trotterdam]

#719 looks like it's the freedom of archeologists to study a valuable find versus the freedom to ensure a proper burial for your relatives.

What would "freedom of scientific study" even count under anyway? Civil? Economic?

[Apabeossie]

Hello
Why did allowing free clothing increase Youth Rebeliousness???
(2nd option in #121)

And by the way sorry if this is cheating,
in the result page of #121, in the 2nd option, it says MAY ADD or remove policy: Prudism.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

#719 looks like it's the freedom of archeologists to study a valuable find versus the freedom to ensure a proper burial for your relatives.

What would "freedom of scientific study" even count under anyway? Civil? Economic?

Right, it's just science vs compassion. Not really a freedom issue. Dealt with.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Hello
Why did allowing free clothing increase Youth Rebeliousness???
(2nd option in #121)

Eh, it feels like it should.

While we try to find evidence base for most issue effects, sometimes you just go with the flow of the story. I don't think it's unreasonable for an issue that opens with a young person telling the nation's leader “Dude, your plan stinks" to be increasing youth rebelliousness.

Anecdotally, I'd note that I was in for a culture shock when as a UK medical student (for whom smart clothes, a white coat and an expected dress code were mandatory) I came to Canada and found that the local med students had a mix of clothes including trainers and jeans. Was even more shocked when a consultant asked a question, the student didn't know, and said "Don't know, why don't you tell me?"

That'd never happen in a UK hospital teaching round, where the correct response in ignorance is to have eyes down, to be embarrassed at lack of knowledge and to soak up being roundly told off by the consultant. Teaching by humiliation they call it.

So while that's anecdotal, and while correlation =/= causation, it certainly feels narratively right for countries that have educational dress codes also to have an expectation that students are deferential to authority.

And by the way sorry if this is cheating,
in the result page of #121, in the 2nd option, it says MAY ADD or remove policy: Prudism.

Says where? If you mean Trotterdam's stat tracker, while that is an excellent resource, this isn't the place to report the outcomes stated within it. Discuss those with Trotterdam directly, I suggest.

[Trotterdam]

Says where? If you mean Trotterdam's stat tracker, while that is an excellent resource, this isn't the place to report the outcomes stated within it. Discuss those with Trotterdam directly, I suggest.

No, don't. My data is correct. That option (and many others) can both add and remove the Prudism policy. It will far more often remove the policy, but it has, infrequently but repeatedly, been shown as adding the policy as well.

This is, presumably, due to Prudism being a fake policy derived from your freedom scores, rather than tracked as a flag. Under certain rare situations, weird interactions between different freedoms can make the policy behave in a direction that doesn't make narrative sense. There are several other policies I have observed this behavior with.

Here is a list of issue options that have been seen both adding and removing the same policy on different nations, according to the current database:

No Dissent
12|1|the death penalty has been reintroduced|No Dissent
84|1|gun ownership is compulsory|No Dissent
137|3|the arms industry is strictly regulated|No Dissent
530|1|@@CAPITAL@@'s main city thoroughfare has been blocked by a row of leyland cypresses that mysteriously appeared overnight|No Dissent
552|3|tourists visit @@NAME@@ to mass-moon @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ politicians|No Dissent
552|4|the bum of @@LEADER@@ has been voted the most recognisable in @@NAME@@|No Dissent
819|2|the police turn a blind eye to desecration if it's done in the name of religion or protest|No Dissent
875|4|a death threat has replaced 'hello' as an official greeting in the nation|No Dissent
913|1|ministers are now allowed to put suggestions in the governmental suggestion box|No Dissent
949|6|solid-gold toilets are @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ prisons' least expensive furnishings|No Dissent
963|2|the nation's politicians are known more for the internet memes they spawn than any of their accomplishments|No Dissent

No Drugs
565|5|exam halls are littered with used needles and empty pill bottles|No Drugs
635|2|schoolyard sandboxes resemble ashtrays due to the large number of cigarette butts|No Drugs
635|3|schoolyard sandboxes resemble ashtrays due to the large number of cigarette butts|No Drugs

No Gambling
239|1|it is a common belief that a sport isn't sport if there are no decapitations|No Gambling
(This might seem like a fluke with only one example, but I just checked and both setting and clearing the policy have been observed in the last week.)

Prudism
50|2|leather-clad individuals can be seen walking their slaves in public parks|Prudism
52|3|nude art is becoming wildly popular|Prudism
121|2|students are known to arrive at school in their pyjamas|Prudism
197|1|female newsreaders distract the nation by breastfeeding during broadcast|Prudism
489|2|good-looking soldier boys have celebrity status amongst the nation's homosexuals|Prudism
501|2|a girl's success in life is often linked to her performance in beauty pageants|Prudism
538|3|debates on whether toilet seats should be left up or down are increasingly commonplace|Prudism
544|3|most @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ video games are banned in other countries|Prudism
552|3|tourists visit @@NAME@@ to mass-moon @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ politicians|Prudism
552|4|the bum of @@LEADER@@ has been voted the most recognisable in @@NAME@@|Prudism
609|1|@@LEADER@@'s peyote-induced "let's all just be friends" speech is trending world-wide|Prudism
613|3|t-shirts displaying a photo of @@LEADER@@ performing the Full-Monty are selling out|Prudism
801|4|the realistic depiction of tentacles is on the core syllabus of most art schools|Prudism
818|4|visitors to Violet Rock City are stunned to learn that they must memorize the "99 Principles" before entering|Prudism
820|1|police officers often head to work wearing onesies and fluffy pink bunny-slippers|Prudism
932|2|attendance of fathers at PTA meetings is at an all-time high|Prudism
932|3|schoolchildren learn an R-rated version of "Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes"|Prudism
975|2|the Snapgram channel "Embarrassing Baby @@LEADER@@ Pics" has made @@LEADER@@'s mom a celebrity|Prudism
992|5|visual acuity is worsening amongst teenagers|Prudism

Public Protest
2|2|bicyclists are banned from major roads|Public Protest
7|1|Animal Liberationists are regularly arrested|Public Protest
48|2|the military has had to quell a recent insurrection by uninsured revolutionaries|Public Protest
137|1|the arms industry is backed by government subsidies and harsh anti-protest laws are in place|Public Protest
234|3|petitions to the government are being used to insulate politicians' office walls|Public Protest
267|3|the government encourages conflict abroad to increase arms sales|Public Protest
413|4|science centers and state of the art laboratories are ubiquitous|Public Protest
483|2|labour strikes are routinely squashed by police|Public Protest
530|2|possession of tomato seeds with intent to garden is a criminal offence|Public Protest
530|3|possession of tomato seeds with intent to garden is a criminal offence|Public Protest
657|1|nothing gets the party jumping like @@LEADER@@ specifying how high|Public Protest
701|2|statue-sitting has replaced the stake-out as the dullest form of police duty|Public Protest
701|4|racial supremacists have a burning desire to deal with immigrants|Public Protest
875|2|internet moderator is one of the most popular jobs among the nation's more socially awkward citizens|Public Protest

State Surveillance
37|3|anti-government web sites are springing up|State Surveillance
112|1|a ban on unsolicited cold calling in all forms is in effect|State Surveillance
129|1|large sections of @@NAME@@ have been named national reserves to protect the native tribes living there|State Surveillance
129|5|a primitive society is being eroded as its youth flock to the modern world|State Surveillance
158|1|nervous homeowners have been blamed for rising death rates amongst carol singers and locksmiths|State Surveillance
198|1|travellers are often forcibly evicted by torch-bearing mobs|State Surveillance
198|3|the government has instituted 'traveller reservations' across the country|State Surveillance
198|4|homes have been banned from having any more than one wheel|State Surveillance
238|4|military geniuses responsible for brilliant campaigns are drummed out because they have close same-sex friends and an interest in interior design|State Surveillance
277|2|photographers have to apply for a license to photograph @@LEADER@@|State Surveillance
292|1|the police strictly enforce off-limit zones for tourists|State Surveillance
292|2|anti-tourism militias patrol the borders|State Surveillance
487|1|country folk are sent to obligatory boarding schools to learn how to be civilized|State Surveillance
528|1|belligerent citizens shoot at passing clouds for 'violating their airspace'|State Surveillance
528|2|crossbow bolts fill the skies if so much as a sparrow flies overhead|State Surveillance
532|2|politicians' financial records are locked up tighter than the nation's @@CURRENCY@@ reserves|State Surveillance
580|4|according to the latest national census as many as two-thirds of the respondents possibly consider 'violet' their favorite color|State Surveillance
595|4|the police are destroying all photographic evidence of their own existence|State Surveillance
613|1|fashion magazine covers finally display realistic body images following photo-manipulation becoming illegal|State Surveillance
671|4|citizens have a tough time telling the difference between jeans and genes|State Surveillance
732|1|supervisors in @@NAME@@ commonly tie bells on their necks to alert employees of their presence|State Surveillance
757|1|lending money has become a major liability|State Surveillance
799|3|politicians "baring all" for the camera isn't always a figure of speech|State Surveillance
835|3|executions are marked by quiet dignity and maybe a final round or two of whist|State Surveillance
836|2|the "right of sanctuary" stops police pursuit into temples and churches|State Surveillance
836|3|the "right of sanctuary" stops police pursuit into temples and churches|State Surveillance
926|2|social media sites prompt users to send birthday greetings to unresponsive nonagenarians|State Surveillance
932|2|attendance of fathers at PTA meetings is at an all-time high|State Surveillance
932|3|schoolchildren learn an R-rated version of "Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes"|State Surveillance
935|4|psychiatrists that date patients are congratulated on their romantic conquests|State Surveillance
939|1|burnt-out forty-foot-tall wicker men dot the countryside|State Surveillance
944|3|even religious militants can be swayed by the power of #love|State Surveillance
953|2|it is not politically correct to suspect that a serially convicted burglar might steal again|State Surveillance
958|2|politicians have been known to swim in pools filled with @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@|State Surveillance
975|1|obstetricians are not allowed to publish ultrasound pictures of fetuses in medical journals|State Surveillance

Theocracy
520|2|the military has declared war on all religious influence|Theocracy
616|2|sexuality-questioning teenagers are placed in locked rooms with dirty magazines and lewd posters|Theocracy
674|1|male friends are often accompanied by a female relative in order to prove their 'straightness'|Theocracy
983|1|pregnant hitchhikers with signs requesting rides to "competent care" are a common sight on @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ roads|Theocracy

Due to the relative rarity of many of these unexpected effects, this list is probably not complete.

Worth noting is that all options with an inconsistent effect on Prudism seem to be ones that narratively would be expected to make your nation less prudish (to the degree it should affect that policy at all - it is debatable if, say, legalizing porn as an art form should affect the public clothing rights of normal citizens), and indeed usually do, but have sometimes been observed doing the opposite. Options that narratively would be expected to make your nation more prudish seem to actually consistently behave as expected.

[Lamaredia]

Nation: Lamaredia
Date: Today, 20th of July 2018
Issue: 719

I chose the option to allow the Violetstone tribe to recover their remains, and authoritarianism went up. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I agree that doesn't look right, but I think in fact freedoms should not be impacted at all by 719.1

Amended.

Thank you!

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Issue 625 "Delivering The Goods"
Date/time: current
Problem encountered: Missing option

There should be an option about pirated movies as my nation has enforced copyright laws (issue 500.1 answered on 16/17 may 2018) but it's not shown. So either my nation is not flagged properly, or copyrights isn't tracked, or this issue has a bug. Fyi.

[The Free Joy State]

Issue 625 "Delivering The Goods"
Date/time: current
Problem encountered: Missing option

There should be an option about pirated movies as my nation has enforced copyright laws (issue 500.1 answered on 16/17 may 2018) but it's not shown. So either my nation is not flagged properly, or copyrights isn't tracked, or this issue has a bug. Fyi.

It's not related to copyrights. It's related to a ban on sequels (as introduced in #440.1 -- Jumping the Sharknado), and mentions "low-quality illegal sequels" being smuggled in.

Your nation has not banned sequels, so you did not receive the option.

[Vapidistan]

Nation: Vapidistan
Issue: Give us money quoth the poet
Option: 3

So I chose option 3, which is to have poets lined up against a wall and shot. The only stat increase I had was weather! Nice weather is a good thing; I think I'll go and shoot more people!!

[Trotterdam]

So I chose option 3, which is to have poets lined up against a wall and shot. The only stat increase I had was weather! Nice weather is a good thing; I think I'll go and shoot more people!!

This seems like at least partly a changes-not-being-shown-due-to-being-too-small thing, since the increase in Weather would necessarily have been the consequence of an equal decrease in Culture (for obvious reasons). Though I'm not sure how that could have happened either, since your Culture is currently lower (in absolute value, both are negative) than your Weather, so if anything Culture should have seen the larger percentage change. Are you sure that there weren't more effects that you just missed due to failing to scroll down?

[The Free Joy State]

Nation: Vapidistan
Issue: Give us money quoth the poet
Option: 3

So I chose option 3, which is to have poets lined up against a wall and shot. The only stat increase I had was weather! Nice weather is a good thing; I think I'll go and shoot more people!!

There are various effects coded into this issue, as -- as you observed -- this is an extreme option. However, your statistics are already on the extreme end in several areas.

Statistically, there's only so far that your statistics can move. As you already had capital punishment and were as about extreme as you can get in the areas effected, it didn't change much. A more liberal nation could expect to notice massive drops to their civil rights. Where you end with issue results always depends on where you begin.

EDIT: You did, however, receive a small drop to culture -- which is to be expected, and is programmed, and a tiny rise in your charmlessness statistic. So, weather wasn't your only change.

Weather is entirely a secondary stat, and many factors (including, partially culture) play into it. We don't programme weather rises or falls into any issue.

[Vapidistan]

Thanks for the replies. Although I'm now curious as to what is the correlation between weather and culture? If one goes down, why does the other go up? I'm currently eating jam scones with afternoon tea and the weather is nice outside!

[The Free Joy State]

Thanks for the replies. Although I'm now curious as to what is the correlation between weather and culture? If one goes down, why does the other go up? I'm currently eating jam scones with afternoon tea and the weather is nice outside!

I don't really have an answer. Weather is known for being a bit of a funny census category. There are things that do influence weather, such as environmental beauty and culture. But, even then it doesn't always work the way you might expect it to (what I said about different nations, and how where you end depends on where you start also applies with secondary stats).

I suppose ICly, weather might improve with low culture because there are less theatres, which tend to be in districts (e.g. Broadway and the West End), so fewer people congregate in those areas, leading to less pollution. But, that's my ICly theory.

Really, I'm an IE, not an admin, and I'm not quite sure how secondary stats are weighted. That's top secret stuff.

[Trotterdam]

Thanks for the replies. Although I'm now curious as to what is the correlation between weather and culture? If one goes down, why does the other go up? I'm currently eating jam scones with afternoon tea and the weather is nice outside!

And don't you regret it? Wouldn't you much rather be outside while the weather is nice, and save your scones and tea for when you're stuck indoors?

(To possibility of eating outdoors is not acknowledged here.)

Really, I'm and IE, not an admin, and I'm not quite sure how secondary stats are weighted. That's top secret stuff.

[violet] actually gave us some hints about this once

There are five stats that go into Weather, one of which is granted double weight, so basically Culture is one-sixth of Weather. I can make some good speculation on what the others are, but this isn't really the right thread for that.

[Luna Amore]

Thanks for the replies. Although I'm now curious as to what is the correlation between weather and culture? If one goes down, why does the other go up? I'm currently eating jam scones with afternoon tea and the weather is nice outside!

How does more culture equate to less sunlighty?

In the real world, people who live in places with more sunlight are more likely to engage in outdoor pursuits, and so be more physically active (stereotypically: fitter, healthier, better-looking). People who live in places with less sunlight are more likely to engage in indoor pursuits, and so be more mentally active (stereotypically: smarter, better educated, more cultured).

Since this is NationStates, instead of the weather influencing you, you influence the weather.

Really, I'm an IE, not an admin, and I'm not quite sure how secondary stats are weighted. That's top secret stuff.

We can see the ranking formulas, Joy. It's got a tab in the CP.

[The Free Joy State]

Really, I'm an IE, not an admin, and I'm not quite sure how secondary stats are weighted. That's top secret stuff.

We can see the ranking formulas, Joy. It's got a tab in the CP.

How could I know that? It's not like I've been on the team for nearly 18 months.

[The Roman-American Empire]

I just received issue #37 Traffic Cops Needed on Information Superhighway?, and I chose option three, which was the opinion of a privacy activist. Despite this however this somehow installed the national policy "state surveillance". I know that option three should have increased privacy, not decrease it.
This occurred on 7/21/18 and just a few minutes before the posting of this comment. The name of the nation that had this effect is The Roman-American Empire.

[Luna Amore]

I just received issue #37 Traffic Cops Needed on Information Superhighway?, and I chose option three, which was the opinion of a privacy activist. Despite this however this somehow installed the national policy "state surveillance". I know that option three should have increased privacy, not decrease it.
This occurred on 7/21/18 and just a few minutes before the posting of this comment. The name of the nation that had this effect is The Roman-American Empire.

That's confusing to say the least. Everything is set up to have worked properly. If I test it on you again, it works properly. But for whatever reason, a few of the stats stubbornly didn't move when they should have. We'll probably have to do a little digging, so it may be a little while before we get a definite answer.

[The Roman-American Empire]

*snip*

Ok, Thank You.

[Jutsa]

Hey uhm, I was reading, and I noticed Trot brought up that 1022.2 was received by nations without prisons, and didn't install prisons.
It could be because my head's been scatterbrained for days(long story), but I didn't happen to come across any mention of that being changed...
was it changed? Or does it really need to be changed?