[SUBMITTED]Friend or Foe

[Jutsa]

Hello, again!

I hope you enjoy this issue. Again, I look forward to all of your criticism, and I'd be more than delighted to implement as much
as is necessary to build this into a ready issue.

Name: Friend or Foe
Description: Blackacre, a notoriously authoritarian and hostile nation that has historically been a major enemy of @@NAME@@, has been having problems within its own borders. In fact, a northern province has recently seceded, establishing a new democratic government with a much more civilised style. This would-be new nation, Whitehectare, is not likely to last for long however, as Blackacre's tanks mass at its borders, intent on bringing them back into the fold.
Validity: Nation is democratic, nation is not overtly low in civil rights.

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly before you. "We don't with to harm Blackacre, but we are just sick and tired of living under their hostile rule. Our new nation would be glad if you, @@LEADER@@, would help protect our new nation from the hands of Blackacre, and send us some financial aid, at least until we get off the ground. It'd mean a lot to us!"
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]A "diplomat" from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, pounds on your desk. "Don't you dare listen to that... that... person! This is mutiny, at its worst! Would you want us to support ungreatful rebels in your nation, like we're currently do-nevermind! I request - nay, I demand that you stay out of this! Maybe, if you listen, we can finally start to overcome our never-ending feud. Possibly."
[effect]@@NAME@@ puts down freedom in the name of fear and friendship

[option]"Well, this is a rather difficult situation, isn't it?" asks your own diplomat, who doesn't greet you in any way. "But not everything has to be black and white, you know. We could call upon an international agency, such as the World Assembly or one in @@REGION@@, to try and ensure that the breakaway citizens can at least resume their normal lives in Blackacre. That way, Blackacre keeps their province, its citizens are treated more fairly, we are only indirectly involved... and, maybe they could make sure Blackacre doesn't try to go to war with us."
[effect]@@NAME@@ has been declared an annoying and compromising tattletale

[option]Your brother storms into your office with a malicious grin on his face. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just wised up and escaped Blackacre! They're calling themselves 'Whitehectare' - what a dumb name. Anyways, I got to thinking, and we should take this province for ourselves! Think about it. We'd gain control of a major tourist attraction, and we'd finally nip that no-good Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]independence has grown out of favor in fear of hostile takeover

Name: Friend or Foe
Description: Blackacre, a notoriously authoritarian and hostile nation that has historically been a major enemy of @@NAME@@, has been having problems within its own borders. In fact, a northern province has recently seceded, establishing a new democratic government with a much more civilised style. This would-be new nation, Whitehectare, is not likely to last for long however, as Blackacre's tanks mass at its borders, intent on bringing them back into the fold.
Validity: Nation is democratic, nation is not overtly low in civil rights.

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly before you. "We don't with to harm Blackacre, but we are just sick and tired of living under their hostile rule. Our new nation would be glad if you, @@LEADER@@, would help protect our new nation from the hands of Blackacre, and send us some financial aid, at least until we get off the ground. It'd mean a lot to us!"
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]A "diplomat" from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, pounds on your desk. "Don't you dare listen to that... that... person! This is mutiny, at its worst! Would you want us to support ungreatful rebels in your nation, like we're currently-nevermind! I request - nay, I demand that you stay out of this! Maybe, if you listen, we can finally start to overcome our never-ending feud. Possibly."
[effect]@@NAME@@ is taken advantage of by its enemies

[option]"Well, this is a rather difficult situation, isn't it?" asks your own diplomat, who doesn't greet you in any way. "But not everything has to be black and white, you know. We could call upon an international agency, such as the WA or one in @@REGION@@, to try and ensure that the breakaway citizens can at least resume their normal lives in Blackacre. That way, Blackacre keeps their province, its citizens are treated more fairly, we are only indirectly involved... and, maybe they could make sure Blackacre doesn't try to go to war with us."
[effect]@@NAME@@ has been declared an annoying and compromising tattletale

[option]Your brother storms into your office with a malicious grin on his face. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just wised up and escaped Blackacre! They're calling themselves 'Whitehectare' - what a dumb name. Anyways, I got to thinking, and we should take this province for ourselves! Think about it. We'd gain control of a major tourist attraction, and we'd finally nip that no-good Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]independence has grown out of favor in fear of hostile takeover

Name: Friend or Foe
Description: A province on the outskirts of Blackacre has just voted and declared independence, and has installed a new economy and democratic government , and has named itself "Whitehectare". They have sent a diplomat over to ask for protection against Blackacre; however, Blackacre, well known for ruling over its citizens with an iron fist, is insisting you keep out of this.
Validity: None

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly before you. "We don't with to harm Blackacre, but we are just sick and tired of living under their hostile rule. Our new nation would be glad if you, @@LEADER@@, would help protect our new nation from the hands of Blackacre, and send us some financial aid, at least until we get off the ground. It'd mean a lot to us!"
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]A "diplomat" from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, pounds on your desk. "Don't you dare listen to that... that... person! This is mutiny, at its worst! Would you want us to support ungreatful rebels in your nation, like we're currently-nevermind! I request - nay, I demand that you stay out of this! Maybe, if you listen, we can finally start to overcome our never-ending feud. Possibly."
[effect]@@NAME@@ is taken advantage of by its enemies

[option]"Well, this is a rather difficult situation, isn't it?" asks your own diplomat, who doesn't greet you in any way. "But not everything has to be black and white, you know. We could call upon an international agency, such as the WA or one in @@REGION@@, to try and ensure that the breakaway citizens can at least resume their normal lives in Blackacre. That way, Blackacre keeps their province, whilst its citizens is treated more fairly."
[effect]I'm open to suggestions on this one.

[option]Your brother storms into your office with a malicious grin on his face. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just wised up and escaped Blackacre! They're calling themselves 'Whitehectare' - what a dumb name. Anyways, I got to thinking, and we should take this province for ourselves! Think about it. We'd gain control of a major tourist attraction, and we'd finally nip that no-good Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]independence has grown out of favor in fear of hostile takeover
Also, open to suggestions on this one too.

Name: Provocative Province of Prominence
Description: A highly pacifist province has just declared independence from Blackacre, with a new democratic government and economy, and has named itself "Whitehectare". They have sent a diplomat over to ask for help with their new nation; however, Blackacre, well known for ruling over its citizens with an iron fist, is insisting you keep out of this.
Validity: None

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly before you. "We don't with to harm Blackacre, but we are just sick and tired of living under their hostile rule. Our new nation would be glad if you, @@LEADER@@, would help protect our new nation from the hands of Blackacre, and send us some financial aid, at least until we get off the ground. It'd mean a lot to us!"
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]A "diplomat" from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, pounds on your desk. "Don't you dare listen to that... that... person! This is mutiny, at its worst! Would you want us to support ungreatful rebels in your nation, like we're currently-nevermind! I request - nay, I demand that you stay out of this! Maybe, if you listen, we can finally start to overcome our never-ending feud. Possibly."
[effect]@@NAME@@ is taken advantage of by its enemies

[option]"Well, this is a rather difficult situation, isn't it?" asks your own diplomat, who doesn't greet you in any way. "But not everything has to be black and white, you know. We could call upon an international agency, such as the WA or one in @@REGION@@, to try and ensure that the breakaway citizens can at least resume their normal lives in Blackacre. That way, Blackacre keeps their province, whilst its citizens is treated more fairly."
[effect]I'm open to suggestions on this one.

[option]Your brother storms into your office with a malicious grin on his face. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just wised up and escaped Blackacre! They're calling themselves 'Whitehectare' - what a dumb name. Anyways, I got to thinking, and we should take this province for ourselves! Think about it. We'd gain control of a major tourist attraction, and we'd finally nip that no-good Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]independence has grown out of favor in fear of hostile takeover
Also, open to suggestions on this one too.

Draft 2.0: Utter disaster, don't talk to me or my son ever again.

Name: Provocative Province of Providence
Description: A highly religious province, named Whitehectare, has declared independence from Blackacre, with a new democratic government, economy, and military. However, Blackacre, a dictatorship which has always been on cold terms with your nation, is now seeking your help, and has sent an aide to your office. Unfortunately, so has Whitehectare.
Validity: The nation must have a substantial military

[option]A diplomat from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly. "I know we've had our disagreements in the past, but we really could use your support. These rebels have taken hold of some of our territory, and have marked it their own religious state. Perhaps you could, oh, say, help us out by declining recognition, refuse trade with them, and lend us some weaponry? Perhaps this will finally set aside our differences, and build a stronger bond between our two nations."
[effect]@@NAME@@ is taken advantage of by its enemies

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, also bows humbly. "Pardon me, but we never wished to harm Blackacre. It's just that... we believe it is our destiny to reclaim our homeland and create a proper home for our people - one which is not being punished by nonbelievers. I've been sent to request from you full national recognition and, for the time-being, ensure that Blackacre doesn't go to war with us - perhaps by lending us some aide and temporary military protection."
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]"Well, this is a rather delicate situation, isn't it?" asks one of your own diplomats, @@RANDOMNAME@@, who just happened to walk by. "This isn't exactly like when something happens to @@NAME@@ - this involves a different nation, and one we're not on great terms with at that. As far as I'm concerned, we really have no business dealing with foreign problems. Let them talk it out, and send a message that we really don't wish to interfere."
[effect]military personnel sit out wars that don't involve @@NAME@@

[option]Your brother once again pops in at the wrong time. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just escaped Blackacre! Perhaps we should take this as an opportunity to take some land for ourselves. Think about it! We'd stop the feud, we'd gain control of a tourist attraction, and we'd nip Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]independence has grown out of favor in fear of hostile takeover

Name: Provocative Province of Providence
Description: A highly religious province, named Whitehectare, has declared independence from Blackacre, with a new democratic government, economy, and military. However, Blackacre, a dictatorship which has always been on cold terms with your nation, is now seeking your help, and has sent an aide to your office. Unfortunately, so has Whitehectare.
Validity: The nation must have a substantial military

[option]A diplomat from Blackacre, @@RANDOMNAME@@, bows humbly. "I know we've had our disagreements in the past, but we really could use your support. These rebels have taken hold of some of our territory, and have marked it their own religious state. Perhaps you could, oh, say, help us out by declining recognition, refuse trade with them, and lend us some weaponry? Perhaps this will finally set aside our differences, and build a stronger bond between our two nations."
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of helping its enemies get stronger

[option]A diplomat from Whitehectare, @@RANDOMNAME@@, also bows humbly. "Pardon me, but we never wished to harm Blackacre. It's just that... we believe it is our destiny to reclaim our homeland and create a proper home for our people - one which is not being punished by nonbelievers. I've been sent to request from you full national recognition and, for the time-being, send aid to us - at least until we get our bearings."
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of breaking apart whole nations

[option]"Well, this is a rather delicate situation, isn't it?" asks one of your own diplomats, @@RANDOMNAME@@, who just happened to walk by. "This isn't exactly like when something happens to @@NAME@@ - this involves a different nation, and one we're not on great terms with at that. As far as I'm concerned, we really have no business dealing with foreign problems. Let them talk it out, and send a message that we really don't wish to interfere."
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of helping noone but themselves

[option]Your brother once again pops in at the wrong time. "Hey, @@LEADER@@, a province just escaped Blackacre! Perhaps we should take this as an opportunity to take some land for ourselves. Think about it! We'd stop the feud, we'd gain control of a tourist attraction, and we'd nip Blackacre by the head! It's a peace of cake, it's win-win, and - oh, I didn't see you three standing there."
[effect]the government has a bad reputation of taking land from vulnerable nations

[Harttland]

Make the effects more interesting, having "the government has a bad reuptation for ____" is a little boring.

[Jutsa]

I know they're all kind of the same, but like how several options often times have reoccurring phrases, I figured I'd do that for effects*.

Plus, it really fits the theme "you lose no matter what you pick".

Edit: That being said, if it's indeed agreed by someone else that it's not a great idea, I'll indeed change it.

[Trotterdam]

Nations will only see one effect line at a time (the one for the option they chose), so the important thing is making each effect line work on its own, not whether it does or doesn't fit a pattern.

[Jutsa]

Hmmm... yeah, I suppose that does pose a problem there.

Well, I'll take it you too then don't approve of the effects,
so I changed them up to be a bit more unique from one another.

- Actually, these were the original versions(yes, effect 2 sparked
the series that I was going for in the first draft).

Are they any better, or would I be better off with something else?

[Australian rePublic]

Damn, my issue based on this topic sucks compared to yours. Here take whatever you need from my shitty version to make yours great
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=417810&p=32092966#p32092966

Also, what does whitehector want exactly? Recognition? You need to make this clearer!

[Jutsa]

Ah, yes... I'll try to be more clear with what they want, for sure..
uh, if you can think of some good ways for me to do that, I'm all ears.

More than anything, yes, they want to be a full-fledging nation,
and want the backs of other nations to ensure that Blackacre does not take them over.

Also, Whitehectare is based off of:
hectares vs. acres and
white vs. black

And thank you for letting me use some content from your topic; I'll take a looksie when I'm feeling
less wiped out and see what I can do.

[USS Monitor]

It's a little weird having "Providence" in the title, but then the name of the province is "Whitehectare." I get that the references to the province being religious are meant to explain the title, but "Province of Providence" still sounds like something to do with Rhode Island.

[Jutsa]

Lol... right, I had forgotten about that. That's probably where I thought providence was a word in the first place,
and then googled it for its definition and skipped Rhode Island altogether.

Would it be fine, or do you think there's a better way around it?

Edit: Also added some hopefully better information for option 2.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Whitehectare. That's clever.

I like the premise, but feel that the player needs more information to make the decision on. Also, it doesn't seem right for Blackacre to be asking for help. Rather, they ought to be demanding that @@NAME@@ does something, rather than asking politely.
It'd also be good if Whitehectare was explicitly a @@FAITH@@-aligned and pro-democracy, with issue validity limiting the issue to democratic nations with a national faith. That'd then make the narrative clearer.

Essentially I think it'd work best if the options were:

1) Historically unpleasant and cold Blackacre, threatening that you should stay out of their sovereign affairs, and saying that if you do, maybe relations will be warmer in the future, starting with some mutually beneficial trade deals.
2) Sympathetic secessionists Whitehectare, asking for your protection, and they can't offer you anything but their good will and ideological solidarity.
3) Crazy third option, like declaring a crusade to take direct control over that holy land.

[Jutsa]

Well, I took all of your things into consideration, and made an updated draft to your recommendations,
but I have some questions about this new version...

1) Wouldn't it also be good to have a nation that is pro-passiveness, like Draft 1's option 3? I know it'd not do much, but having a passive option would be fairly realistic*, and it'd help with
2) If your nation's not democratic or religious, then... wouldn't you be left with just two options - one that's help, and one that's a takeover?
3) Perhaps you could help me punch up the options to give more incentive to choose them?
And, 4) Well, with Blackacre making demands, it does punch up their notable hostility,
but at the same time it really does make them feel... a bit overly like the bad guy, in my opinion,
and doesn't really give a compelling argument to help them in any way but out of fear
- which, while more realistic, I imagine not as many players would really care about when answering the issue, themselves.

Those are just my thoughts on it. Draft 2 is out and is up for debate, but I'm personally thinking that I probably
took your advice a little bit off-inclination.

Also: Took a few edits to rephrase something and failing at it.

[Drasnia]

I'm going to echo Candle. Why is Blackacre coming to you? It seems like a purely internal matter unless Whitehectare was doing something. Did they come to you seeking protection from Blackacre for some reason (most likely because you two don't get along so anything that spites Blackacre might be supported by @@NAME@@)? Your mortal enemy coming to you asking for aid would only happen if they were in very dire trouble.

A highly religious province, named Whitehectare, has declared independence from Blackacre

I really think this would read better if it made it sound like Whitehectare called themselves that after declaring independence because it's the complete opposite of Blackacre. It'd be a bit odd for that to be the province name before seceding.
Validity: The nation must have a substantial military

What's the significance of Whitehectare being religious? The more you describe what they are, the more likely you'll alienate more and more players from supporting them because Whitehectare contradicts your nation's values.

I'm also disappointed there's no joke about this not being a black and white issue. It seems like such an obvious set up.

[Jutsa]

1) Historically unpleasant and cold Blackacre, threatening that you should stay out of their sovereign affairs.

Oh, wait a second... somehow this didn't click in my head that you merged options 1 and 3, and didn't get rid of 3 altogether...
My sincere apologies, I'll have hopefully met up with that request in this latest draft. I thought I took your advice off-inclination.

It'd also be good if Whitehectare was explicitly a @@FAITH@@-aligned and pro-democracy, with issue validity limiting the issue to democratic nations with a national faith. That'd then make the narrative clearer.

... My head must have drugged itself something awful, somehow I took that as only applying to the one option. You have my permission to have your leader
visit my nation and kick my leader as hard as possible without requiring a hospital visit.
That being said, I think removing the religious aspect of it is better overall - see below.

I'm going to echo Candle. Why is Blackacre coming to you? It seems like a purely internal matter unless Whitehectare was doing something. Did they come to you seeking protection from Blackacre for some reason (most likely because you two don't get along so anything that spites Blackacre might be supported by @@NAME@@)? Your mortal enemy coming to you asking for aid would only happen if they were in very dire trouble.

Yeah, I sorta misread CWA's thing, I'll be fixing that.

really think this would read better if it made it sound like Whitehectare called themselves that after declaring independence because it's the complete opposite of Blackacre. It'd be a bit odd for that to be the province name before seceding.

Yeah, I agree...
That'd be sort of like having a state in the US named "Discorded* Blob of Vespucci" - well, ok, maybe not that ridiculous, but still, my point is I get your point.

Validity: The nation must have a substantial military

Ah, yes, that was to help give military aid, but since that'll basically be uninvolved in this whole thing, I've removed that.

What's the significance of Whitehectare being religious? The more you describe what they are, the more likely you'll alienate more and more players from supporting them because Whitehectare contradicts your nation's values.

I mostly did that for the "Providence" part of the title... hopefully the new title's almost as good.

I'm also disappointed there's no joke about this not being a black and white issue. It seems like such an obvious set up.

Yeah, I added a sort-of compromise, but I'd need some feedback as to whether it's a good option.

Anyhow, it'll be uploaded very shortly after this post. Sorry about the misunderstandings.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Name: Provocative Province of Prominence

Not too keen on this title. Something referring to the theme of a new nation emerging, or friends and enemies might work. Alliteration is generally a last resort in titles, and when it is used it needs to be as relevant as possible.

Description: A highly pacifist province has just declared independence from Blackacre, with a new democratic government and economy, and has named itself "Whitehectare". They have sent a diplomat over to ask for help with their new nation; however, Blackacre, well known for ruling over its citizens with an iron fist, is insisting you keep out of this.

The situation still seems to be without context. Pacifistic seems an odd adjective for a breakaway state.

I'd suggest, as noted before, a validity check for democracy and then Whitehectare being noted to share your ideologies and values.

[Jutsa]

Name: Provocative Province of Prominence

Not too keen on this title. Something referring to the theme of a new nation emerging, or friends and enemies might work. Alliteration is generally a last resort in titles, and when it is used it needs to be as relevant as possible.

Aw, ok... I'll think of something.

The situation still seems to be without context.

I'm not sure how to go about this. I've tried adding that they simply got sick of Blackacre's aggressive civil rights, voted out, and installed their own government,
but if you can think of a way to add more to this, I'm all ears.

Pacifistic seems an odd adjective for a breakaway state.

Yes, definitely... I'll just remove that.

I'd suggest, as noted before, a validity check for democracy and then Whitehectare being noted to share your ideologies and values.

I suppose, but... my original idea was that those who did not follow Whitehectare's values would simply choose options 2 and 3 though.
That being said, upon further reflection, I can see all of those options being picked by a relatively pro-democratic nation,
whereas I don't see option 1 really ever being chosen or 2 making sense in a non-democratic one, so I'll add that as a validity.

I do have a question, though. What "ideologies and values" would you recommend? And, followup; how'd you recommend I go about changing this?
I could reinstate religion, like in the original draft, but I sort-of feel like I'm going along diverging rails on this one.

Edit: Fixed formatting, woops

Edit2: Changed the name. I also thought of "New Nation Nuisance", if you think that'd be better - I'm a little afraid that neither of these
will encompass the ideologies behind them, but again, I don't exactly know what to do about those yet.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

So basically, I'd say make the validity "for democratic nations with good civil rights", then make it something like:

[desc] Blackacre, a notoriously authoritarian and hostile nation that has historically been a major enemy of @@NAME@@, has been having problems within its own borders. In fact, a northern province has recently seceded, establishing a new democratic government with a much more civilised style. This would-be new nation, Whitehectare, is not likely to last for long however, as Blackacre's tanks mass at its borders, intent on bringing them back into the fold.

So basically, we tell a story of events that have unfolded. Then we go into a voice from Whitehectacre asking for help and protection, then we get a threatening sod from Blackacre telling us to keep out of its sovereign affairs, then you get the crazy third option.

[Jutsa]

Aaah, ok. Thank you, CWA.

Uh, would you like me to come up with my own take on that, or would it be alright if I just used that?
I'd be fine with either way, as long as the issue is sound.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

However you prefer. Any ideas are always freely given.

[Jutsa]

Updated. I love your suggestion, CWA.

I still think that the third, moderation option would be best...
both for the sake of having a middleground that everyone hates and for having
that black vs. white joke that Drasnia so wants into the draft.

Uh, final note, I'm sorry about the validity. I fully intended to add "democratic nations only",
but it must have slipped my mind. That's been added, along with roughly middle-grounds or higher civil rights.

Once again, any and all opinions and suggestions are welcome.

[Fauxia]

A good issue. The fallout on option 2 is not specific enough, I think. It could be a little more funny, also, expand WA to World Assembly.

Keep working, and you should get this through

[Jutsa]

Alrighty, adjusted them. I'm a little afraid that 2 still might not be as specific as you like, but hopefully it's at least better.
If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Also, thank you very much.

[Trotterdam]

So I was looking through our NPC nations, and noticed that we already did the white-versus-black thing with Marche Blanc.

[Jutsa]

Oh... do you think it'd be ok to still have this, though?

[Jutsa]

Oh, hey... I think it's time for a:
bump~

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Oh... do you think it'd be ok to still have this, though?

Don't see why not.