Yours for the taking/co-authoring: Demand vs Command

[Australian rePublic]

Title Demand vs Command

Description: A bad growing season has seen a shortage of strawberries after this year's harvest. In order to determine how the strawberries should be distributed, your minister of agriculture has stated that you should increase the price of the fruit. Unfortunately, due to the relative easiness of the fruit to grow, this idea will anger many citizens. There are now calls to reinstate demand economics

Validity: Socialist nations only

Options:  

[option] “Whose dumb idea was it to implement command economics in the first place” asks noted capitalist @@RANDOMNAME@@ "This year, no strawberries, next year, no bananas, the year after that no peaches..." @@HE trails on "A shortage in supply with an increse in demand automatically means and increase in price with demand economics, thw way it should be"
[effect] don't know

[option] "The government is the one who decides the prices, not some whiney individuals” states @@RANDOMNAME@@, a financial advisor "Just increase the price of strawberries, and who cares what the people want?"
[effect] strawberries are the new caviar

[option] "Yuck strawberries" complains well-known strawberry phobe, @@RANDOMNAME@@ "This whole problem could be solved by banning the yucky things! Just ban them"
[effect] one bad growing season can lead to a fruit being perminate ban

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Title Demand vs Command

Description: A bad growing season has seen a shortage of strawberries after this year's harvest. In order to determine how the strawberries should be distributed, your minister of agriculture has stated that you should increase the price of the fruit. Unfortunately, due to the relative easiness of the fruit to grow, this idea will anger many citizens. There are now calls to reinstate demand economics

I'm confused now: supply is short because strawberries grew badly. Citizens would be upset if you raise prices because the fruit is easy to grow.

That doesn't make much sense - you'd just say to the citizens "There's fewer strawberries this year. This is the price of strawberries." Or you ignore the problem, and supply can't demand, and so what?

[Australian rePublic]

Title Demand vs Command

Description: A bad growing season has seen a shortage of strawberries after this year's harvest. In order to determine how the strawberries should be distributed, your minister of agriculture has stated that you should increase the price of the fruit. Unfortunately, due to the relative easiness of the fruit to grow, this idea will anger many citizens. There are now calls to reinstate demand economics

I'm confused now: supply is short because strawberries grew badly. Citizens would be upset if you raise prices because the fruit is easy to grow.

That doesn't make much sense - you'd just say to the citizens "There's fewer strawberries this year. This is the price of strawberries." Or you ignore the problem, and supply can't demand, and so what?

That's true. Should I just scrap this?

[Australian rePublic]

As this has only one comment, and is on the second page, is it okay if I bump it?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

You just did.

Regardless, sometimes if you don't get much comment, it means that it's not going anywhere. I'm not too sold on this, I have to say, but up to you where you can take it.

[Australian rePublic]

You just did.

Regardless, sometimes if you don't get much comment, it means that it's not going anywhere. I'm not too sold on this, I have to say, but up to you where you can take it.

Hmm, I'll leave it here if anyone wants to take it/coauthor

[Fahrenheit 451-America]

I'm wondering about the validity.
Would you have to be classified as Socialists to get it? Do you need to boost an NS stat for it? If you get it but answer another issue first, and that issue removes your qualifications for the issue, will it be invalid?

[Australian rePublic]

I'm wondering about the validity.
Would you have to be classified as Socialists to get it? Do you need to boost an NS stat for it? If you get it but answer another issue first, and that issue removes your qualifications for the issue, will it be invalid?

I have abandonded this issue. Take it and make it your own, if you want

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

I'm wondering about the validity.
Would you have to be classified as Socialists to get it? Do you need to boost an NS stat for it? If you get it but answer another issue first, and that issue removes your qualifications for the issue, will it be invalid?

I have abandonded this issue. Take it and make it your own, if you want

Thanks.

I see some possibilities, so I'm eyeballing it with a view towards adopting and modifying it. It's now added to the list of Issue ideas I'm playing with.

Would you like for me to telegram you before I post a WIP of it and let you know, assuming I can come up with something entertaining and workable?

[Australian rePublic]

I have abandonded this issue. Take it and make it your own, if you want

Thanks.

I see some possibilities, so I'm eyeballing it with a view towards adopting and modifying it. It's now added to the list of Issue ideas I'm playing with.

Would you like for me to telegram you before I post a WIP of it and let you know, assuming I can come up with something entertaining and workable?

Sure. I wish you significantly better fortune with it than I had

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Sure. I wish you significantly better fortune with it than I had

Cool. And thank you.

I'm thinking about making it a "A recent shortfall in the strawberry crop has resulted in a nationwide shortage of the succulent fruit favorite, and the search for a solution has once again ignited the fiery debate over Command vs. Demand economies in @@NATION@@'s Capital" sort of thing.

That way it'll be available (theoretically) for both socialist and capitalist nations.

I've got several Issue concepts in the queue that I'm writing at right now, so it's a ways down on my list... but if an inspiration strikes me, I'll bump it up closer to the top and work on it sooner.

I do submit something as a WIP here eventually, I'll drop you a co-author credit line at the bottom of my issue post and link back to this thread.

[Australian rePublic]

Sure. I wish you significantly better fortune with it than I had

Cool. And thank you.

I'm thinking about making it a "A recent shortfall in the strawberry crop has resulted in a nationwide shortage of the succulent fruit favorite, and the search for a solution has once again ignited the fiery debate over Command vs. Demand economies in @@NATION@@'s Capital" sort of thing.

That way it'll be available (theoretically) for both socialist and capitalist nations.

I've got several Issue concepts in the queue that I'm writing at right now, so it's a ways down on my list... but if an inspiration strikes me, I'll bump it up closer to the top and work on it sooner.

I do submit something as a WIP here eventually, I'll drop you a co-author credit line at the bottom of my issue post and link back to this thread.

Ok!

[Caracasus]

Hmm. Just as a thought for anyone picking this up but the issue itself is about a command economy right?

One of the problems with a command economy is that it proved hard to adjust to sudden, unexpected surges in use of a particular item. Now, tying this into strawberries....

Something like so: Following the smash-hit cooking show "The Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight", Soviets across the country are reporting record demands for strawberries, far exceeding last year's predictions and growing quotas. Exasperated central planners and budding bakers alike have taken to the streets, demanding that the state steps in to secure strawberry production

Option one: Move to Market Socialism. Allow worker owned co-operatives to exist and compete within a market economy whilst maintaining the ownership of the means of production by the workers.

Option two: The old "calculation" answer posed by anarchist groups pre WW2. Basically citizens fill in a lengthy form of things they are likely to need/use in the upcoming year.

Option three: The Project Cybersyn approach - (Chile - Allende) - basically you use computers and predictive software to chart and prepare production for the upcoming year, allowing for faster intervention in shortages. (This is similar to the AI option in an existing issue, so would have to be tweaked a little).

Option four: The "Communism with @@DENONYM@@ characteristics" option. Open up special economic zones to allow for greater trade etc. with capitalist trading partners.

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Hmm. Just as a thought for anyone picking this up but the issue itself is about a command economy right?

One of the problems with a command economy is that it proved hard to adjust to sudden, unexpected surges in use of a particular item. Now, tying this into strawberries....

Something like so: Following the smash-hit cooking show "The Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight", Soviets across the country are reporting record demands for strawberries, far exceeding last year's predictions and growing quotas. Exasperated central planners and budding bakers alike have taken to the streets, demanding that the state steps in to secure strawberry production

Option one: Move to Market Socialism. Allow worker owned co-operatives to exist and compete within a market economy whilst maintaining the ownership of the means of production by the workers.

Option two: The old "calculation" answer posed by anarchist groups pre WW2. Basically citizens fill in a lengthy form of things they are likely to need/use in the upcoming year.

Option three: The Project Cybersyn approach - (Chile - Allende) - basically you use computers and predictive software to chart and prepare production for the upcoming year, allowing for faster intervention in shortages. (This is similar to the AI option in an existing issue, so would have to be tweaked a little).

Option four: The "Communism with @@DENONYM@@ characteristics" option. Open up special economic zones to allow for greater trade etc. with capitalist trading partners.

I like that, Carscasus.

Assuming that I do eventually pick this up from Aussie to develop at some point, do you mind if I swipe elements from your description and suggestions? I'll reword them somewhat so they fit my concept for the issue, of course.

A question: would a Soviet style command economy nation actually have a popular culture TV cooking show like "The Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight"? I'm asking because the closest I've been to a nation like that in IRL is South America, and while socialist, the majority of countries down there are not really Soviet Style communist. (Except for maybe modern day Venezuela, but that's happened in the decades since I was last down there, so I don't know for sure.)

[Caracasus]

Hmm. Just as a thought for anyone picking this up but the issue itself is about a command economy right?

One of the problems with a command economy is that it proved hard to adjust to sudden, unexpected surges in use of a particular item. Now, tying this into strawberries....

Something like so: Following the smash-hit cooking show "The Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight", Soviets across the country are reporting record demands for strawberries, far exceeding last year's predictions and growing quotas. Exasperated central planners and budding bakers alike have taken to the streets, demanding that the state steps in to secure strawberry production

Option one: Move to Market Socialism. Allow worker owned co-operatives to exist and compete within a market economy whilst maintaining the ownership of the means of production by the workers.

Option two: The old "calculation" answer posed by anarchist groups pre WW2. Basically citizens fill in a lengthy form of things they are likely to need/use in the upcoming year.

Option three: The Project Cybersyn approach - (Chile - Allende) - basically you use computers and predictive software to chart and prepare production for the upcoming year, allowing for faster intervention in shortages. (This is similar to the AI option in an existing issue, so would have to be tweaked a little).

Option four: The "Communism with @@DENONYM@@ characteristics" option. Open up special economic zones to allow for greater trade etc. with capitalist trading partners.

I like that, Carscasus.

Assuming that I do eventually pick this up from Aussie to develop at some point, do you mind if I swipe elements from your description and suggestions? I'll reword them somewhat so they fit my concept for the issue, of course.

A question: would a Soviet style command economy nation actually have a popular culture TV cooking show like "The Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight"? I'm asking because the closest I've been to a nation like that in IRL is South America, and while socialist, the majority of countries down there are not really Soviet Style communist. (Except for maybe modern day Venezuela, but that's happened in the decades since I was last down there, so I don't know for sure.)

Take what you want, that's why I added them.

I would think so yes. Soviet TV (although obviously state controlled) had many different types of programmes. It's not unbelievable that there would be a cookery programme. It's also worth mentioning that in NS terms, Communist applies to a massive variety of nations, from those like the nation I run (barely any censorship etc) through to nations that frankly make even the worst excesses of Stalin controlled USSR look tame.

Maybe lose the cake fight bit - but yeah, a cookery show would be believable - especially if you're educating the proletariat on how to prepare delicious yet nutritious meals...

[Trotterdam]

One of the problems with a command economy is that it proved hard to adjust to sudden, unexpected surges in use of a particular item. Now, tying this into strawberries....

Doesn't that apply to everyone? Food takes time to grow after being planted earlier in the year. Even a free market wouldn't be able to suddenly make a bunch of new strawberries appear overnight, without planting new ones and waiting for them to be ready for harvest - too slow to respond to a very short-term fluctuation like that cooking show you mentioned.

[Australian rePublic]

Option 3, how would an AI know what a contestant will cook on a cooking show next year?

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Take what you want, that's why I added them.

I would think so yes. Soviet TV (although obviously state controlled) had many different types of programmes. It's not unbelievable that there would be a cookery programme. It's also worth mentioning that in NS terms, Communist applies to a massive variety of nations, from those like the nation I run (barely any censorship etc) through to nations that frankly make even the worst excesses of Stalin controlled USSR look tame.

Maybe lose the cake fight bit - but yeah, a cookery show would be believable - especially if you're educating the proletariat on how to prepare delicious yet nutritious meals...

Cool, thanks.

But but but- I like the Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight title! It's funny!

In Soviet Denonym, TV watch you!

And thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure, hence my asking. While I'm familiar with the theories and practice behind hardcore Communism, and the variations, I haven't directly observed or experienced one. All of the semi-Communist patterned RW nations I've been in have been moderate to soft Socialist like South America, or recovering from and moving toward capitalist or Democratic-Socialist/Capitalist like my mother's family's nation of Czechoslovakia in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union (back in, ah, '88? '89? thereabouts). Not the same.

And we all know what they say about theory and practice: in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice...

What kind of television or movies or state owned and operated entertainment you might get in a hard Communist nation is something I just had zero clue about.

I did have the idea that "Communist" in NS covers a really wide variety of ranges of socialism/Marxism/Stalinism/Maoism. Just not quite an idea of just how broad a spectrum, so thanks again.

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Option 3, how would an AI know what a contestant will cook on a cooking show next year?

Quantum Temporal Programming, Comrade Aussie! Soviet Russkia inwent Quantum Temporal Programski!

We just needs must keep Moose and Squirrel out of Quantum bit bucket, nyet?

[Caracasus]

One of the problems with a command economy is that it proved hard to adjust to sudden, unexpected surges in use of a particular item. Now, tying this into strawberries....

Doesn't that apply to everyone? Food takes time to grow after being planted earlier in the year. Even a free market wouldn't be able to suddenly make a bunch of new strawberries appear overnight, without planting new ones and waiting for them to be ready for harvest - too slow to respond to a very short-term fluctuation like that cooking show you mentioned.

If we're assuming the standard criticisms of central planning, the 3rd biggest problem with running such an economy is that prices don't really change to reflect the availability of resources, and therefore has difficulty dealing with sudden shortfalls. The options are loosely based on real-world attempts to correct that.

Option 3, how would an AI know what a contestant will cook on a cooking show next year?

It wouldn't. Project Cybersyn was designed to adapt much more quickly to such things. In this instance, the AI would ensure that strawberries were imported perhaps, faster than it would take a group of people to find this out and agree to do it. Modern theories on using computing in central planning have advanced somewhat from the 1980's, as has modern computing technology. I imagine that instead of telex machines a modern Project Cybersyn would make use of algorithms, email and predictive software. (EDIT - obviously with CyberSyn there was to be an element of prediction, it's just that modern computing methods would make this significantly easier I should imagine)

Cool, thanks.

But but but- I like the Great @@DENONYM@@ Cake Fight title! It's funny!

In Soviet Denonym, TV watch you!

And thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure, hence my asking. While I'm familiar with the theories and practice behind hardcore Communism, and the variations, I haven't directly observed or experienced one. All of the semi-Communist patterned RW nations I've been in have been moderate to soft Socialist like South America, or recovering from and moving toward capitalist or Democratic-Socialist/Capitalist like my mother's family's nation of Czechoslovakia in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union (back in, ah, '88? '89? thereabouts). Not the same.

And we all know what they say about theory and practice: in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice...

What kind of television or movies or state owned and operated entertainment you might get in a hard Communist nation is something I just had zero clue about.

I did have the idea that "Communist" in NS covers a really wide variety of ranges of socialism/Marxism/Stalinism/Maoism. Just not quite an idea of just how broad a spectrum, so thanks again.

Soviet TV programmes isn't an area I've looked at in any great detail, but they weren't that dissimilar to what you'd find in other countries. In the 80's for example they began creating and broadcasting entertainment quiz shows that were similar to what was being shown in the USA. I would think that if the USSR was still around today, they'd have more than a few cookery shows as these have become popular.