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[WITHDRAWN] Over the Top

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Pavonistade
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Founded: Jan 26, 2013
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[WITHDRAWN] Over the Top

Postby Pavonistade » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:11 pm

EDIT: This issue is inspired by debates about whether or not people should be allowed to wear burqas, niqabs or other clothing that obscures their faces in citizenship ceremonies. The topic was addressed to a notable degree in Canada as well as the USA. This issue in particular attempts to cover any face-obscuring or bizzare clothing worn inside citizenship ceremonies.

[title] Over the Top

[desc] A devout Maxtopian follower of the outcast religious movement called the Order of Maxx was made to take off the Maxtop, a bulky and spongy pointed hat that often shadows the face, in order to enter a citizenship ceremony and obtain citizenship status in the end. The wearing of the Maxtop is considered essential to followers of the order, so religious companions came forward to you to express outrage.

[validity] Valid for nations that have not banned immigration and clothing, and have a complex non-citizen integration process (i.e. nation must not have selected Option 4 in Issue #292).

[option]"Cursed be anyone that soils our looks!" yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, Almighty Poobah of the Order of Maxx. "The Maxtop is the utmost part of our people and culture. Our compatriot was not able to save face, because your barbaric laws demand they refrain from 'desecrating' their faces and appearance before they become a citizen of @@NAME@@. This is a terrible disgrace, and you need to make sure that it is the new citizen's time to shine, even if they dress up weirdly according to your way of thinking!"
[effect]it is typical for citizens-to-be to show up with bizarre hats, masked faces or no clothes at all for the citizenship ceremony.

[option]"@@HE@@'s thinking of WHAT?" questions @@RANDOMNAME@@, head of Citizenship and Immigration Services. "The citizenship ceremony is a symbolic indication that a person has completed the naturalization process and is ready to integrate into our society. This is never the time to dress up however you want! And you have to admit, there are security risks when people sneak whatnot into their Maxtops or whatever clothing they have. @@LEADER@@, I urge you to not listen to these whackos and stay true to the value of the unperverted citizenship ceremony."
[effect]@@NAME@@'S citizenship ceremonies follow a rigid dress code designed to protect etiquette and save lives.

[option]"Maybe we can have the best of both worlds," states @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Fashion, as @@HE@@ unveils an unseemly suit. "Why not let new citizens wear whatever they want to wear, as long as they wear a suit like this? It looks really great, it's no danger to security, it fits nicely with Maxtops and any wearables, and everyone will show true allegiance to you. Yes, you, @@LEADER@@. It's definitely a win-win for everyone - well, apart from people who may not appreciate the suit like we do."
[effect]@@NAME@@'s citizenship ceremony is mocked across @@REGION@@ for making new citizens prove their loyalty by wearing an absurd suit.

[title] Over the Top

[desc] A devout Maxtopian follower of the outcast religious movement called the Order of Maxx was made to take off the Maxtop, the wearing of which is considered essential for followers of the movement, before being allowed in to @@NAME@@'s citizenship ceremony. As a result, religious companions came forward to you to express outrage.

[validity] Valid for nations that have not banned immigration and clothing.

[option]"Cursed be anyone that soils our looks!" yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, Almighty Poobah of the Order of Maxx. "The Maxtop is the utmost part of our people and culture. Our compatriot was not able to save face, because your barbaric laws demand they refrain from 'desecrating' their faces and appearance before a citizenship ceremony. This is a terrible disgrace, and you need to make sure that it is the new citizen's time to shine, even if they dress up weirdly according to your way of thinking!"
[effect]it is typical for citizens-to-be to show up with bizarre hats, masked faces or no clothes at all for the citizenship ceremony.

[option]"@@HE@@'s thinking of WHAT?" questions @@RANDOMNAME@@, head of Citizenship and Immigration Services. "The citizenship ceremony is a symbolic indication that a person has completed the naturalization process and is ready to integrate into our society. This is never the time to dress up however you want! And you have to admit, there are security risks when people sneak whatnot into their Maxtops or whatever clothing they have. @@LEADER@@, I urge you to not listen to these whackos and stay true to the value of the unperverted citizenship ceremony."
[effect]@@NAME@@'S citizenship ceremonies follow a rigid dress code designed to protect etiquette and save lives.

[option]"Maybe we can have the best of both worlds," states @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Fashion, as @@HE@@ unveils an unseemly suit. "Why not let new citizens wear whatever they want to wear, as long as they wear a suit like this? It looks really great, it's no danger to security, it fits nicely with Maxtops and any wearables, and everyone will show true allegiance to you. Yes, you, @@LEADER@@. It's definitely a win-win for everyone - well, apart from people who may not appreciate the suit like we do."
[effect]@@NAME@@'s citizenship ceremony is mocked across @@REGION@@ for making new citizens prove their loyalty by wearing an absurd suit.

[title] Over the Top

[desc] A devout Maxtopian follower of the outcast religious movement called the Order of Maxx was made to take off the Maxtop, the wearing of which is considered essential for followers of the movement, before being allowed in to @@NAME@@'s citizenship ceremony. As a result, religious companions came forward to you to express outrage.

[validity] Valid for nations that have not banned immigration and clothing.

[option]"Cursed be anyone that soils our looks!" yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, Almighty Poobah of the Order of Maxx. "The Maxtop is the utmost part of our people and culture. Our compatriot was not able to save face, because your barbaric laws demand they refrain from 'desecrating' their faces and appearance before a citizenship ceremony. This is a terrible disgrace, and you need to make sure that it is the new citizen's time to shine, even if they dress up weirdly according to your way of thinking!"
[effect]it is typical for citizens-to-be to show up with bizarre hats, masked faces or no clothes at all for the citizenship ceremony.

[option]"@@HE@@'s thinking of WHAT?" questions @@RANDOMNAME@@, head of Citizenship and Immigration Services. "The citizenship ceremony is a symbolic indication that a person has completed the naturalization process and is ready to integrate into our society. This is never the time to dress up however you want! And you have to admit, there are security risks when people sneak whatnot into their Maxtops or whatever clothing they have. @@LEADER@@, I urge you to not listen to these whackos and stay true to the value of the unperverted citizenship ceremony."
[effect]@@NAME@@'S citizenship ceremonies follow a rigid dress code designed to protect etiquette and save lives.

[option]"This brings up a fantastic idea," states @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Fashion, as @@HE@@ unveils an unseemly suit. "Why not make everyone wear some suit like this in front of you? This suit looks really great, it fits nicely with Maxtops and any wearables, and everyone will show true allegiance to you. Yes, you, @@LEADER@@. It's definitely a win-win for everyone - well, apart from people who may not appreciate the suit like we do."
[effect]@@NAME@@'s citizenship ceremony is mocked across @@REGION@@ for making new citizens prove their loyalty by wearing an absurd suit.
Last edited by Pavonistade on Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:52 am, edited 12 times in total.
Political Compass:
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
President: Calvin Elmore
Vice President: Otakta Sgriki
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[NEWS] Pavonistadian researchers make breakthrough in Terahertz wave generation and modulation | Selective screening protocols in place amid coronavirus concerns | "The USA is the greatest threat to Pavonistadian security," states interior minister

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27179
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:33 pm

Nice issue, but let's see:

1. I get that this is a burqa reference, but why would this be an issie to wear at a citizenship ceremony? Based on the third option, there is no dress code, so then why can't someone wear religious head gear? I mean, it is religious head gear, not something stupid like a spaggetti collendar, what idiot doean-t know the difference? Unless this could be about wearing a spaghetti collendar, like many Pastaferians

2. You do know that there are debates about whether the burqa is a part of the Islamic faith or the Arabic culture, right?
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Pavonistade
Minister
 
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Founded: Jan 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Pavonistade » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:41 pm

Australian Republic wrote:Nice issue, but let's see:

1. I get that this is a burqa reference, but why would this be an issie to wear at a citizenship ceremony? Based on the third option, there is no dress code, so then why can't someone wear religious head gear?

Option 3 is supposed to be some form of a compromise between Option 1 (allows people to wear hats or other clothing) and Option 2 (has some comformity in the citizenship ceremony). Nevertheless I will see how this issue can be reworded.

EDIT: This is a potential issue for citizenship ceremonies as it defines a limit between two parts: freedom of expression (in this case, wearing unusual clothing), and formality/symbolic appearance in citizenship ceremony. If someone appears to look bizarre when they are in a citizenship ceremony, it may be seen as disgraceful to themselves and to the ceremony itself. Citizenship ceremonies conclude the naturalization process for people across the nation, so any ruling on how citizenship ceremonies should handle clothing would have a national impact and scope.

Australian Republic wrote:I mean, it is religious head gear, not something stupid like a spaggetti collendar, what idiot doean-t know the difference? Unless this could be about wearing a spaghetti collendar, like many Pastaferians

2. You do know that there are debates about whether the burqa is a part of the Islamic faith or the Arabic culture, right?

As the OP says, this issue is inspired by debates about burqas and other face-obscuring clothing being worn in citizenship ceremonies. The issue does not necessarily revolve around the burqa, and whether or not the burqa is a part of Islamic/Arabic culture has nothing to do with the point of this issue.
Last edited by Pavonistade on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
President: Calvin Elmore
Vice President: Otakta Sgriki
IIwiki | Glossary | I don't use NS stats
[NEWS] Pavonistadian researchers make breakthrough in Terahertz wave generation and modulation | Selective screening protocols in place amid coronavirus concerns | "The USA is the greatest threat to Pavonistadian security," states interior minister

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Trotterdam
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10541
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:16 pm

#128 Ban The Burka?

The difference in your draft that it's about wearing the bur[qk]a (okay, so spelling differ) during a citizenship ceremony rather than in general, but then, what is a "citizenship ceremony" and since when does my nation have one? According to an effect line I've gotten many times, "tourists need only sign on the dotted line to become citizens".

Also, you don't even describe what this "Maxtop" looks like. If you hadn't mentioned your inspiration before the draft, I'm not sure I would have recognized it's supposed to be a burqa standin (that is, covers nearly all skin) rather than any random weird clothing. It's hard to claim criticisms seriously when I have no idea what makes it worse than any other clothing style in my country. (Granted, most of us don't wear clothes at all, but still.)
Last edited by Trotterdam on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 27179
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:26 pm

Yea, actually, how do we know if the Maxtop is meant to be a burqa or a Yamaka? Both make siginficant levels of difference to level of face cover
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Pavonistade
Minister
 
Posts: 2787
Founded: Jan 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Pavonistade » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Trotterdam wrote:#128 Ban The Burka?

The difference in your draft that it's about wearing the bur[qk]a (okay, so spelling differ) during a citizenship ceremony rather than in general, but then, what is a "citizenship ceremony" and since when does my nation have one? According to an effect line I've gotten many times, "tourists need only sign on the dotted line to become citizens".

I will hopefully have that addressed somewhat by changing the validity of the issue so that a country would have a more defined citizenship ceremony and that any new citizens wouldn't get their citizenship through some mere process.

EDIT: Citizenship ceremonies are there to mark the symbolic end of the naturalization process and allow a non-citizen to attain citizenship status. It's briefly gone over in Option 2. And based on the aforementioned information, citizenship ceremonies would generally take place in countries that allow immigration since it would typically be foreign non-citizens that naturalize and obtain citizenship. The restriction is already mentioned in the validity section of the issue draft.
Also, you don't even describe what this "Maxtop" looks like. If you hadn't mentioned your inspiration before the draft, I'm not sure I would have recognized it's supposed to be a burqa standin (that is, covers nearly all skin) rather than any random weird clothing. It's hard to claim criticisms seriously when I have no idea what makes it worse than any other clothing style in my country. (Granted, most of us don't wear clothes at all, but still.)

My bad, the Maxtop is primarily a hat, but it should also block much of the face or at least make the wearer look unusual. I will have the issue redrafted to reflect better on what it is. (Although the name "Maxtop" should have implied it's either a headwear or clothing that covers much of the head or body).

However, based on what I've seen here, there may not be a true obligation to describe what the Maxtop is. It may be more interesting to leave the lacking description as is but it's best to still give a brief description of the Maxtop.
Last edited by Pavonistade on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:03 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
President: Calvin Elmore
Vice President: Otakta Sgriki
IIwiki | Glossary | I don't use NS stats
[NEWS] Pavonistadian researchers make breakthrough in Terahertz wave generation and modulation | Selective screening protocols in place amid coronavirus concerns | "The USA is the greatest threat to Pavonistadian security," states interior minister


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