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[DRAFT] Internationale aid?

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Thespolis
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[DRAFT] Internationale aid?

Postby Thespolis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:04 pm

[title] Internationale aid?

[desc] A revolution in Smalltopia last week led to the ousting of its old repressive government, as the dust settles, the new repressive government has emerged, proudly proclaiming itself as the Democratic Republic of Smalltopia and following the totalitarian-socialist ideology of Smallinism. The new socialist regime has requested @@NAME@@ for aid to help get itself afoot. Your cabinet is split on whether or not to provide the government with aid, as a series of atrocities committed in the country have made debating split among party lines.

[validity] private enterprise must be banned, nation must relatively high civil and political freedoms, nation also must provide foreign aid in general.

[option] "I don't see how we can refuse them aid, comrade!" Exclaims ushanka-donning party minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "This new socialist regime is in dire need of financial support, and we're in the place to provide some to them! By helping them, we'd be contributing to the construction of socialism worldwide! These here reports of atrocity are being used as weapons themselves by the capitalist powers to stop the spread of socialism worldwide, starting with Smalltopia! Who hasn't thought about dumping your whole political opposition into work camps? In fact, if we provide our new Smallinist neighbors with aid, we might be able to end these atrocities by providing them with stability, whaddya say, comrade?"
[effect]foreign aid from the country is regularly received by totalitarian dictatorships in the name of international socialism
[stats]Foreign aid, authoritarianism, ideological radicality and maybe niceness and compassion go up

[option] "Where do I start?" Foreign minister @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, dropping a stack of papers on your desk, "The new Smallinist regime has committed a staggeringly high number of atrocities in the short time it has been around, I don't care if they claim to be following our ideals, I care if they are following our ideals, and all possible reports say otherwise. If we give every tinpot dictatorship foreign aid because they slap 'The Democratic People's Republic' in their name, we'd be more often than not giving money to tyrants, directly subsidizing their crimes! I'd say that's the opposite of socialism and the revolution we fought so hard to achieve. Regimes that ask for aid, socialist or not, must prove their basic respect for human rights."
[effect]governments seeking humanitarian aid from @@NAME@@ must prove a certain level of humanitarianism
[stats]foreign aid, compassion, niceness and authoritarianism decrease.

[option] "That's not going far enough!" Wails protesting radical syndicalist @@RANDOMNAME@@, who broke a window to get into your office. "It'd go against our principles to support the Smallinist tankies by any means! Those totalitarian goons aren't the face of socialism we want in the world, and I'm certain many leftists here in @@NAME@@ certainly agree! We must outright denounce any Marxist nation that doesn't comply with our view of what it should be!" They plant a red and black flag in your office before breaking a different window and escaping.
[effect]the government is prone to denounce foreign nations as splitters if their inspired Marxist writer is different
[stats]foreign aid, compassion, niceness and authoritarianism decrease, ideological radicality increases.

[title] Foreign aid leads to foreign slain

[desc] A revolution in a neighboring nation last week led to the ousting of its old repressive government, the new repressive government was able to successfully cite its socialist nature as a means to receive foreign aid from @@NAME@@ to get it off on the right foot. However, because of a series of atrocities committed in the country, your government is split on whether or not to pull the plug on foreign aid.

[validity] nation must have low economic freedoms, but relatively high civil and political ones, nation also must provide foreign aid in general.

[option] "I don't see how we can refuse them aid, comrade!" Exclaims ecstatic party minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "The new regime is in dire need of financial support, and we're in the place to provide some to them! By helping them, we're contributing to the construction of socialism worldwide! So what if the regime has been regularly sending its political opposition into labor camps? I'm sure they'll stop it once they become stable."
[effect]foreign aid from the country is regularly received by totalitarian dictatorships in the name of international socialism
[stats]

[option] "Where do I start?" Foreign minister @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, dropping a stack of papers on your desk, "The new regime has committed a staggeringly high number of atrocities in the short time it has been around, I don't care if they claim to be following our ideals, I care if they are following our ideals, and all possible reports say otherwise. If we give every tinpot dictatorship foreign aid because they slap 'The Democratic People's Republic' in their name, we'd be more often than not giving money to tyrants, directly subsidizing their crimes! I'd say that's the opposite of socialism and the revolution we fought so hard to achieve. Regimes that ask for aid, socialist or not, must prove their basic respect for human rights."
[effect]governments seeking humanitarian aid from @@NAME@@ must reach a certain level of humanitarianism
[stats]
[title] Internationale aid?

[desc] A revolution in Smalltopia last week led to the ousting of its old repressive government, the new repressive government, which proudly proclaims itself as following the authoritarian-socialist ideology of Smallinism, has requested @@NAME@@ for aid to help get itself afoot. Your government is split on whether or not to provide the government with aid, as a series of atrocities committed in the country have divided your cabinet.

[validity] private enterprise must be banned, nation must relatively high civil and political freedoms, nation also must provide foreign aid in general.

[option] "I don't see how we can refuse them aid, comrade!" Exclaims ecstatic party minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "The new regime is in dire need of financial support, and we're in the place to provide some to them! By helping them, we'd be contributing to the construction of socialism worldwide! So what if the regime has been regularly sending its political opposition into labor camps? I'm sure they'll stop it once they become stable."
[effect]foreign aid from the country is regularly received by totalitarian dictatorships in the name of international socialism
[stats]

[option] "Where do I start?" Foreign minister @@RANDOMNAME@@ says, dropping a stack of papers on your desk, "The new regime has committed a staggeringly high number of atrocities in the short time it has been around, I don't care if they claim to be following our ideals, I care if they are following our ideals, and all possible reports say otherwise. If we give every tinpot dictatorship foreign aid because they slap 'The Democratic People's Republic' in their name, we'd be more often than not giving money to tyrants, directly subsidizing their crimes! I'd say that's the opposite of socialism and the revolution we fought so hard to achieve. Regimes that ask for aid, socialist or not, must prove their basic respect for human rights."
[effect]governments seeking humanitarian aid from @@NAME@@ must reach a certain level of humanitarianism
[stats]

[option] "That's not going far enough!" Wails protesting syndicalist @@RANDOMNAME@@, breaking into your office with a black and red flag. "It'd go against our principles to support the Smallinist tankies by any means! Those authoritarian goons aren't the face of socialism we want in the world, and I'm certain many leftists here in @@NAME@@ certainly agree! We must outright denounce any socialist nation that doesn't comply with our view of socialism!
[effect]the government is prone to denounce foreign nations as splitters if their inspired Marxist writer is different
Last edited by Thespolis on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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A Humanist Resurrection
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Postby A Humanist Resurrection » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:09 pm

#036

Also, low economic freedoms / economy is not necessarily "socialist." Not even on NationStates.
Last edited by A Humanist Resurrection on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:13 pm

This is a bit too much of a clear-cut "Be evil? [Y/N]" issue. You need more than one option that a reasonable nation might consider choosing (by socialist standards of "reasonable", of course), or at least make the debate between the existing options more balanced.

Also, your title is terrible.

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A Humanist Resurrection
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Postby A Humanist Resurrection » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:15 pm

Trotterdam wrote:This is a bit too much of a clear-cut "Be evil? [Y/N]" issue. You need more than one option that a reasonable nation might consider choosing (by socialist standards of "reasonable", of course), or at least make the debate between the existing options more balanced.


A more balanced debate/issue would probably be a carbon copy of #036.

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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:43 pm

A Humanist Resurrection wrote:#036

Also, low economic freedoms / economy is not necessarily "socialist." Not even on NationStates.

This issue pertains to whether or not a socialistic nation should support other self-described socialist nations, even if those nations in question adopt a more authoritarian outlook on things. Unlike issue 036, which focuses on providing foreign aid in general, this issue's focus is particularly whether a libertarian-left socialist nation should provide foreign aid to an authoritarian-left socialist nation.

I'd like to say that in NS, low economic freedoms, while not inherently described as socialist, have the tendency to describe socialistic nations.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:56 pm

A Humanist Resurrection wrote:Also, low economic freedoms / economy is not necessarily "socialist." Not even on NationStates.
It would probably be better to change the validity to "has banned private enterprise" rather than "low economic freedom" (since both are valid NationStates stats and are not always found together), but I'm sure the editors can handle that.

A Humanist Resurrection wrote:A more balanced debate/issue would probably be a carbon copy of #036.
#036 mentions nothing about human rights violations in the nation receiving the aid, it is solely about wanting to keep the money yourself.

I would either try to make a better argument about how keeping the nation poor will just lead to more atrocities in the long run while funding them will give you influence them and allow you to gently nudge them onto the right path, or about how civilians are not responsible for their government's crimes and many people in the nation need aid regardless of the revolutionaries' actions, or both.

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A Humanist Resurrection
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Postby A Humanist Resurrection » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:05 pm

Trotterdam wrote:#036 mentions nothing about human rights violations in the nation receiving the aid, it is solely about wanting to keep the money yourself.


Sure, although I had the "long debunked socialist" angle more in mind. An issue more focused on the effects of foreign aid going astray would be more interesting. Perhaps as a consequence of a particular choice made in #036.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 pm

What's Smallism?
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Thespolis
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Postby Thespolis » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Australian Republic wrote:What's Smallism?

It's a merger of Stalinism and the fact that the ideology rose from Smalltopia, so I guess it's a bad pun.
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A Humanist Resurrection
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Postby A Humanist Resurrection » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:32 pm

Thespolis wrote:I'd like to say that in NS, low economic freedoms, while not inherently described as socialist, have the tendency to describe socialistic nations.


I've had at least ten socialist nations stretching back to Antiquity which would not have received your issue because they would have failed the "low economic freedoms" validity test. Trotterdam's suggestion above is a much better approach.

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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:18 am

Hmm. A thought here:

[option] "I don't see how we can refuse them aid, comrade!" Exclaims ecstatic party minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "The new regime is in dire need of financial support, and we're in the place to provide some to them! By helping them, we'd be contributing to the construction of socialism worldwide! So what if the regime has been regularly sending its political opposition into labor camps? I'm sure they'll stop it once they become stable."
[effect]foreign aid from the country is regularly received by totalitarian dictatorships in the name of international socialism
[stats]


If you wanted to give more of a dilemma sort of thing, rather than a cut and dried "good or evil?" thing - perhaps alter to something like this?

[option] "I don't see how we can refuse them aid, comrade!" Exclaims ecstatic party minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "A new socialist regime is in dire need of financial support, and we're in the place to provide some to them! I know plenty of nations are up in arms about alleged human rights abuses, but I can't help noticing that they were fine with backing Liliputia after their uprising, even after that business with the siege. Utter hypocrisy! The Smalltopian regime isn't being condemned because it's imprisoning political opponents, it's being condemned because it's a socialist state. Besides, if we are on hand to offer guidance and support, we can surely steer them down a less totalitarian path."
[effect]foreign aid from the country is regularly received by totalitarian dictatorships in the name of international socialism
[stats]
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:35 am

Thespolis wrote:
Australian Republic wrote:What's Smallism?

It's a merger of Stalinism and the fact that the ideology rose from Smalltopia, so I guess it's a bad pun.

I would suggest making this clear within the issue
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
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