Has anyone noticed how biased the recent NS issues are?

[Serena Ilma]

It's clear that the bulk of the people who make issues for NS are leftists, but maybe even feminists and marxists. I say this not out of complete blind guessing, but rather out of what I've seen and heard in the past, in that political simulators such as these (if they allow community interaction), tend to get biased one way or another. The goal of this simulator is to not be politically biased (although communism doesn't work as well as it should in this game, frankly). I recently got a issue about "Women's Suffrage". While yes, this is an issue that belongs in NS, the answers appear to be worded in such a way as to shame the player for choosing unpopular votes. Especially on topics with religion, and law enforcement.

There was even a 'Black Lives Matter' parody at some point, and much of the same subtle 'guilt tripping' was also done for people who decided in an unpopular way..

Thoughts?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Issues. Are. Supposed. To be. FUNNY.

If your ideology can't handle a little cage-rattling, you should question your ideology, cause it probably sucks.

[Serena Ilma]

Issues. Are. Supposed. To be. FUNNY.

If your ideology can't handle a little cage-rattling, you should question your ideology, cause it probably sucks.

But these aren't even being funny. The issues, are reflective (too much so) of their real life counterparts and are rather defeatist in their premises.

[Great Kauthar]

Most of the issue writers are card carrying members of the Party. /s

It's no secret the issues are biased, you'll find some biased to the right-wing, and more biased to the left. That reflects the user base.

[Svebia]

NationStates is a game, if you really get your panties in a knot over a game. I shudder to imagine how you'd react in a real debate room.

[The Blaatschapen]

Moved to Got Issues.

[Socialist Nordia]

If you really think the current issues are horribly biased, maybe consider writing issues to add to the pool. Ones that aren't "biased"

[Serena Ilma]

Moved to Got Issues.

Thanks. I wasn't sure which place to put this, and I didn't see the 'Got Issues' subforum.


Also, I'm not really 'angry' over this, just kind of wondering why bias is so frequently ignored here. I'd be able to enjoy these issues if they were actually enjoyable to think through, but it's like debating with a feminist. Never gonna get anywhere.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

There is a definite bias, which is hard to avoid, but which we strive to do so.

That is that the vast majority of contributors, be they editors or writers, seem to be male. I admit, I haven't confirmed this with a poll, but the general pronoun being deployed is "he". This is likely because gamer culture is so heavily male - there might be a lot of female gamers out there, but they're less vocal on the internet.

Also, there's a strong westernised bias, likely because this is an English language game. There's a lot of Americans and Brits on the team. This has definitely biased the language of the game, with terms like Parliament, MP, Senate and so on being obvious signs, with subtler things present like the stereotyped presentation of communist countries, the high emphasis on issues based on dilemmas faced by western governments, and so on. We've got issues on high speed monorail, fur clothes, Neo-Nazi extremists, university fees, cheese and pizza. There's a lot of westernisation in the presentation. We don't have issues on male/female population ratios, on broad population illiteracy, regional concentration of industry, village governance, effects of water shortages on rice harvest, and so on.

There's also a bias of preferred topics. We talk about technology, gaming and pop culture way more than the general population is. There's a lot of issues that deal with the internet. Again, this is selection bias of available writers. We've got a simulation game on the internet, spawned by the promotion of a science fiction book. It's like wikipedia's inherent biases - compare the number of articles about Star Trek to the number of articles about Lipstick. Now compare that to the ratio of written information about these topics in broader media... clearly lipstick is underrepresented.
The same is true here on NS. We've got nowhere near the content of wikipedia, but we're just as biased in content.

As to political bias, I think there's definitely more people on the left than on the right here. That might be a selection bias issue, in that the people who are most interested in building up the community experience for no financial reward are likely those who have mildly left wing tendencies. While there's no difference in charitable nature between right and left, there's a statistical bias towards right wingers being inclined towards religious donation, and the left wing more towards secular projects. Of course, just as likely, there's an element of momentum here: if early moderators and editors were left wing, they might be inclined to take people on who have similar political viewpoints. While there's no conspiracy in action here (seriously, nobody asked me what my politics were before my consideration, and my main nation certainly doesn't reflect my RL political beliefs) there's a strong tendency for people of the same politics to seem like "our kind of people". Thus, a political bias can perpetuate.

Coming back to the four biases I've mentioned though, political bias is probably the weakest one, and the one which we most consciously try to avoid when designing issues and assigning stats. Why is this?

Perhaps because in the first three examples I mention, the players have the same population skews we do. You're mostly a male, westernised bunch, interested in science and technology. Yes, I know there are exceptions, I'm talking about the shape of the community. On the other hand, there's a lot of right wing players out there who can't help but notice that there is a bias in the team, who despite our best efforts to maintain lack of bias are likely to carry our own worldviews when we judge what the position of "unbiased" and "reasonable" are.

The best thing a right-wing player can do is to write some issues, while trying to be as impartial as possible. These will likely end to the right of what a left-wing player would consider to be as impartial as possible, but the effort to be impartial will be noticed. After a good number of high quality submissions, someone will take notice and ask you to edit. At that stage, the bias will start to be negated.

In the meantime, its always useful for the bias to be observed and commented on, so we can reflect as a team how best to counter it. That in mind, I'd be grateful for specific examples of bias that you perceive, and if we think you've got good points, we'll look at editing things. Personally, I'm very very aware that my politics is way left of centre. I don't trust an unregulated market to do anything other than create wealth inequalities. I don't think that equality of opportunity exists. I'm proudly feminist, opposed to nationalism, think "patriotic" is a tribalist word that denies responsibility to the human species as a whole. I don't understand why anyone would oppose immigration or abortion. I think Donald Trump is mentally ill. I think Nicola Sturgeon is the only credible politician in the UK. I'm left wing, through and through. Because of this, I've been positively surprised when on editing an issue the options I consider to be reasonable centre ground politics and middle of the road are broadly rejected, and the populace skews to the right of those options.

In other words, I am aware of my personal biases, and though I don't consciously look to inflict them on anyone, they seep through in how I present issues. I'm sure if you were in the same position, attempting as hard to be neutral, your right wing biases would seep through. Hopefully, we can work together to try to create a better and more balanced game experience.

On the other hand, I AM a feminist. So it is entirely possible you're "never gonna get anywhere."

[Indo-Malaysia]

-snip

There was even a 'Black Lives Matter' parody at some point, and much of the same subtle 'guilt tripping' was also done for people who decided in an unpopular way..

-snip-

A BLM parody? Whats the issue number?

[Austria and Bavaria]

-snip

There was even a 'Black Lives Matter' parody at some point, and much of the same subtle 'guilt tripping' was also done for people who decided in an unpopular way..

-snip-

A BLM parody? Whats the issue number?

Not sure of the number, but the name of the issue is "Bigtopian Lives Matter".

[Trotterdam]

broad population illiteracy

#273 Is our children learning? sounds illiterate...

regional concentration of industry

#497 The Widening Gyre

village governance

#111 Southern @@NAME@@ Demands Semi-Autonomy is about local government and #526 Any Idea Where The Law Is, Bessie? is about village authority.

effects of water shortages on rice harvest

#096 Water Supply Problems Becoming A Major Drain doesn't mention rice specifically, but it does concern the plight of farmers.

As to political bias, I think there's definitely more people on the left than on the right here. That might be a selection bias issue, in that the people who are most interested in building up the community experience for no financial reward are likely those who have mildly left wing tendencies.

Isn't that claim itself left-wing biased? Left-wing people claim that cutting government programs would hurt the poor, and right-wing people often counter that without the impression that the government is doing their work for them, many more people will donate to privately-run charities that are more efficient than the government.

NationStates is not run or funded by any (real-life) government...

While there's no difference in charitable nature between right and left, there's a statistical bias towards right wingers being inclined towards religious donation, and the left wing more towards secular projects.

Oh. Should have kept reading...

A BLM parody? Whats the issue number?

#458 Bigtopian Lives Matter

[A Humanist Science]

It's clear that the bulk of the people who make issues for NS are leftists, but maybe even feminists and marxists.

[olde-tyme radio program dramatic pipe organ chord here]

Thoughts?

Still, there are probably some things we can do to reduce the bias, especially in specific issues that are more biased than usual.

I don't see this as being my responsibility. Issues I write will reflect my values precisely because I wrote them. This doesn't make me evil, so much as it makes me a person with values.

If other people do not think their values are adequately represented, then the solution is for them to contribute content that does represent them. But if they choose to flip the table and quit, then of course the game won't represent them.

But it's their own fault.

The only thing we are obligated to do is wave bye-bye and carry on. And even if we did argue about what is or isn't biased, since we're all biased, the solutions to our biases will just be more biased. Something like that.

At any rate, I'll wager that complainers will not be satisfied until all vales but their own are completely censored. That's what "that's biased!" really means.

I quoted myself cause I'm biased.

[Drasnia]

-snip-

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

-snip-

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Means you're the exception to the rule

[Candlewhisper Archive]

-snip-

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Hey, I love your issues!

Mind you, I also love the issues of Chan Island, and he's on the other side of the Raider/Defender divide, which is a division way more toxic than right/left could ever be!

[Outer Sparta]

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Hey, I love your issues!

Mind you, I also love the issues of Chan Island, and he's on the other side of the Raider/Defender divide, which is a division way more toxic than right/left could ever be!

And I'm on the left who wrote two environmental issues (bees anyone?), so that seems pretty leftist, so I'm more of an average Joe than the likes of Chan Island and Drasnia.

[Drasnia]

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Hey, I love your issues!

Mind you, I also love the issues of Chan Island, and he's on the other side of the Raider/Defender divide, which is a division way more toxic than right/left could ever be!

Hey, I spoke at Raidercon this year mind you

But to get to the original point, the issues team has plenty of left-leaning individuals, however from my experience they have never tried forcing their personal ideologies on others.

[Maljaratas]

I'm not exactly what one would call a rightist or anti-environment (not saying those on the right are), yet my current draft uses "hippie environmentalist" deragoratively.

[Arridian Islands]

The effects of some issues also seem biased sometimes.

[Australian rePublic]

-snip-

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Us right-wingers who wrtie issues gotta stick together!

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Hey, I love your issues!

Mind you, I also love the issues of Chan Island, and he's on the other side of the Raider/Defender divide, which is a division way more toxic than right/left could ever be!

Hey, I love your issues!

Mind you, I also love the issues of Chan Island, and he's on the other side of the Raider/Defender divide, which is a division way more toxic than right/left could ever be!

And I'm on the left who wrote two environmental issues (bees anyone?), so that seems pretty leftist, so I'm more of an average Joe than the likes of Chan Island and Drasnia.

I'd just point out that ... OK, I don't have any claims to being average anyway. I'm amazing!

[Maljaratas]

The effects of some issues also seem biased sometimes.

Well duh
Everything is biased. All is bias. Except some science. But you must become one with the bias. Feel the bias.

Most likely they are, but the effects being biased is a tad more reasonable than the issue texts

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

-snip-

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Or me. Another "right-winger" who enjoys injecting my own biases into the issue pool?

Hey look, it's not good satire unless someone is offended anyway, right? We should all take this as a sign that our efforts have been successful in that regard.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Then how do you explain me - a "right-winger" who writes a lot of issues?

Or me. Another "right-winger" who enjoys injecting my own biases into the issue pool?

Hey look, it's not good satire unless someone is offended anyway, right? We should all take this as a sign that our efforts have been successful in that regard.

Now that's an approach I can get behind!