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Crockerland
Senator
 
Posts: 4775
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:46 am

I got the issue "Caught Green Handed", dilemma 420, went with the second option (legalizing Maxtopian Grass), and my weaponization decreased by 14.8% for no reason.

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Sanctaria
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7368
Founded: Sep 12, 2008
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sanctaria » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:44 am

Crockerland wrote:I got the issue "Caught Green Handed", dilemma 420, went with the second option (legalizing Maxtopian Grass), and my weaponization decreased by 14.8% for no reason.

Just off the top of my head, but I don't know any people who, when stoned, think "I know, I'll buy a gun". Usually it's "I know, I'll buy a multipack of Cornflakes with chocolate milk and marshmallows".
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Kaisachen
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Nov 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kaisachen » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:03 am

I chose option 2 of Violent Violetists Demand Blood!, and it raised inclusiveness? How?

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Jute
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13727
Founded: Jan 28, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jute » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:48 am

"Pharmacies close down as medicinal drugs are sold freely by the government." (Issue 107)

How did that make public education and eco-friendliness fall by 6.8 % each?
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

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Leppikania
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 13, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Leppikania » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:56 am

Option 222.6, how did legalizing terrorism increase File a GHR's intelligence?
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Skappola
Minister
 
Posts: 2063
Founded: May 12, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Skappola » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:48 pm

"Regarding Robber's Rights." Giving people the right to use lethal force on their property lowers civil rights by 2.5% and Average Income of the poor by 1%. And income equality by 1.6%. The circumcision issue (forgot the name) also lowers civil rights by a substantial amount if you chose to keep it legal. Why are my civil rights going down through legalizing things? These issues seem to regard negative liberty as more important than positive liberty.
Last edited by Skappola on Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alterrum
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: May 28, 2011
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Alterrum » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:01 pm

Jute wrote: by Jute » Today, 20:48

"Pharmacies close down as medicinal drugs are sold freely by the government." (Issue 107)

How did that make public education and eco-friendliness fall by 6.8 % each?


Since this also decreased your economy, the government has less money to tax and invest into these departments.




Leppikania wrote:Option 222.6, how did legalizing terrorism increase File a GHR's intelligence?


[violet] wrote:a freer political process (weakly) stimulates intelligence.
Last edited by Alterrum on Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7836
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:12 pm

Kaisachen wrote:I chose option 2 of Violent Violetists Demand Blood!, and it raised inclusiveness? How?
Because you're becoming more tolerant of horrible and cruel religions that preach murder.

Tolerance is not always good.

Jute wrote:"Pharmacies close down as medicinal drugs are sold freely by the government." (Issue 107)

How did that make public education and eco-friendliness fall by 6.8 % each?
I agree that seems wrong. The option was about selling drugs to raise funds for the government, so it should increase or at least not-decrease funding to government departments including these two. (It would make sense for widespread use of drugs to lower Intelligence, but that's not the same as Public Education.)

Probably it's a result of the game's simplistic funding model that is unable to recognize sources of government revenue besides taxes.


Oops, I missed the "medicinal" part and mistook it for a different issue. How embarrassing. Ignore me, please.

The drop in some government departments is probably due to funding being redirected from them into Healthcare.

Leppikania wrote:Option 222.6, how did legalizing terrorism increase File a GHR's intelligence?
...Natural selection?

Okay, I don't have a good explanation for that one.




So this has been pointed out by others before, but #433 option 3 (building a weather control machine) actually lowers Weather. In fact, when I tested it, it appeared to have no positive effects at all - the closest was minor increases to Industry stats, but Average Income dropped, and all other stat effects were in the "bad" direction.

This may be understandable (weather control machines are crazy fringe science, so it's not a huge surprise they turn out not to work), but NationStates has working mad science elsewhere (AIs, vat-grown people, resurrected dinosaurs), it's not entirely without real-life basis, and all of the issue's other options are about somehow coping with the bad weather, rather than trying to fix it. The issue has no true environmentalist option besides the weather machine one, and it seems some choice should actually succeed at improving weather.
Last edited by Trotterdam on Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Alterrum
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: May 28, 2011
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Alterrum » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:01 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Jute wrote:"Pharmacies close down as medicinal drugs are sold freely by the government." (Issue 107)

How did that make public education and eco-friendliness fall by 6.8 % each?
I agree that seems wrong. The option was about selling drugs to raise funds for the government, so it should increase or at least not-decrease funding to government departments including these two. (It would make sense for widespread use of drugs to lower Intelligence, but that's not the same as Public Education.)

Probably it's a result of the game's simplistic funding model that is unable to recognize sources of government revenue besides taxes.


If the effect line is taken literally, then it seems that the government isn't actually generating any revenue directly. The option was about subsidizing the pharmacological industry, however, so by NS logic, it should have actually increased the economy as well, leaving these departments at least unchanged indeed.
Last edited by Alterrum on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7836
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:03 pm

Err yeah. I misread which issue was being talked about.

In that case, the drop in some government departments is probably due to funding being redirected from them into Healthcare.

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Mushet
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17124
Founded: Apr 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mushet » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:28 pm

Puppet nation Panjamawattopolis answered option 1 on issue 298

Stomping out a cult on behalf of the National Religion really shouldn't raise Secularism and decrease Religiousness.
"what I believe is like a box, and we’re taking the energy of our thinking and putting into a box of beliefs, pretending that we’re thinking...I’ve gone through most of my life not believing anything. Either I know or I don’t know, or I think." - John Trudell

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Puppet Sacred Heart Church ranked #2 in the world for Nudest 2/25/2010
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North-by-Northwesteros
Attaché
 
Posts: 95
Founded: Jan 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Issue 443

Postby North-by-Northwesteros » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:57 pm

OK, so this nation (North-by-Northwesteros), on issue 443, Five Year Plan and New Deals, chose option 2: the pro-market, remove subsidies, "let them eat cake" option. Somehow, this dropped my economy by half from 72 to 36! This is a *lot* of drop...
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Crockerland
Senator
 
Posts: 4775
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:33 pm

I got the issue "More Jails Needed" (Dilemma 199), went with the first option (making more jails) and weaponization decreased by 5.0%.
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Jute
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13727
Founded: Jan 28, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jute » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:33 pm

North-by-Northwesteros wrote:OK, so this nation (North-by-Northwesteros), on issue 443, Five Year Plan and New Deals, chose option 2: the pro-market, remove subsidies, "let them eat cake" option. Somehow, this dropped my economy by half from 72 to 36! This is a *lot* of drop...

It's probably because you removed subsidies, which a part of your economy relied on?
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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North-by-Northwesteros
Attaché
 
Posts: 95
Founded: Jan 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby North-by-Northwesteros » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:49 pm

Jute wrote:
North-by-Northwesteros wrote:OK, so this nation (North-by-Northwesteros), on issue 443, Five Year Plan and New Deals, chose option 2: the pro-market, remove subsidies, "let them eat cake" option. Somehow, this dropped my economy by half from 72 to 36! This is a *lot* of drop...

It's probably because you removed subsidies, which a part of your economy relied on?


Subsidies barely existed (government doesn't exist, since my tax rate is 0), though the whole pie was subsidies since I messed up on an issue (so 100% of 0 was given out to industry). Probably it's proportional to percentage of government spending spent on subsidies, but it should really be based on percentage of economy spent on subsidies...
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Outer Sparta
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7406
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:57 pm

Mushet wrote:Puppet nation Panjamawattopolis answered option 1 on issue 298

Stomping out a cult on behalf of the National Religion really shouldn't raise Secularism and decrease Religiousness.

It would raise secularism because you're cracking down on other religious groups, hence cults, and also cracking down on ANY religion, cult or not, increases secularism.
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Mushet
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17124
Founded: Apr 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mushet » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:28 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Mushet wrote:Puppet nation Panjamawattopolis answered option 1 on issue 298

Stomping out a cult on behalf of the National Religion really shouldn't raise Secularism and decrease Religiousness.

It would raise secularism because you're cracking down on other religious groups, hence cults, and also cracking down on ANY religion, cult or not, increases secularism.

Secularism is the separation of the church and state, cracking down on a cult in favor of a national religion is very anti-secular.

Anyway somehow answering option 1 on issue 186 increases the residency stat, which I don't think should be affected by any issue.
"what I believe is like a box, and we’re taking the energy of our thinking and putting into a box of beliefs, pretending that we’re thinking...I’ve gone through most of my life not believing anything. Either I know or I don’t know, or I think." - John Trudell

About 90 ex-nations for sale and current nations from common to epic, cheap prices

Puppet: E-City ranked #1 in the world for Highest Drug Use on 5/25/2015
Puppet Sacred Heart Church ranked #2 in the world for Nudest 2/25/2010
OP of a 5 page archived thread The Forum Seven Tit Museum
Previous Official King of Forum 7 (2010-2012/13), relinquished own title
First person to get AQ'd Quote was funnier in 2011, you had to have been there
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Jolteonia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jolteonia » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:47 pm

I hope this is the right place to report problems like this...

I just passed legislation for issue 008. Nudists Demand Time in the Sun. I picked the same choice that I always choose (option 1), but I feel like the results have got to be bugged. Civil rights went up, which seems reasonable, but nudity dropped by nearly 50%. All the way from 800 to 415, showing a really sharp decline on the trend graph. The headlines showed clothing retailers expecting a "bumper season", and I'm left very confused by how that makes any sense.
Last edited by Jolteonia on Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 11921
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:52 pm

Jolteonia wrote:I hope this is the right place to report problems like this...

I just passed legislation for issue 008. Nudists Demand Time in the Sun. I picked the same choice that I always choose (option 1), but I feel like the results have got to be bugged. Civil rights went up, which seems reasonable, but nudity dropped by nearly 50%. All the way from 800 to 415, showing a really sharp decline on the trend graph. The headlines showed clothing retailers expecting a "bumper season", and I'm left very confused by how that makes any sense.

At some point in the past you must have pushed nudity to be compulsory for either everyone or just woman. Which would explain why suddenly giving either half or all of the populace the choice on whether or not to be nude would drop your nudity score.
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The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Luna Amore
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Posts: 11921
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:53 pm

Mushet wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:It would raise secularism because you're cracking down on other religious groups, hence cults, and also cracking down on ANY religion, cult or not, increases secularism.

Secularism is the separation of the church and state, cracking down on a cult in favor of a national religion is very anti-secular.

Anyway somehow answering option 1 on issue 186 increases the residency stat, which I don't think should be affected by any issue.

Every issue affects the residency stat indirectly because time passes in between answering issues.
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Luna Amore
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Posts: 11921
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:57 pm

North-by-Northwesteros wrote:
Jute wrote:It's probably because you removed subsidies, which a part of your economy relied on?


Subsidies barely existed (government doesn't exist, since my tax rate is 0), though the whole pie was subsidies since I messed up on an issue (so 100% of 0 was given out to industry). Probably it's proportional to percentage of government spending spent on subsidies, but it should really be based on percentage of economy spent on subsidies...

True you don't have any govt expenditure. But your people were also already about as free economically as they could be, so the only thing you did was very staunchly reaffirm that your govt does not subsidize business. It's an odd result due to the fact that most stats do not have ceilings or floors.
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7836
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:00 pm

#008 probably just shouldn't be given to nations with compulsory nudity, since there's already #295 as the unban issue.

Though, there's currently no unban for female-only compulsory nudity. In fact that position is in limbo as absolutely nothing else ever acknowledges the possibility.

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 11921
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:01 pm

Alterrum wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:I agree that seems wrong. The option was about selling drugs to raise funds for the government, so it should increase or at least not-decrease funding to government departments including these two. (It would make sense for widespread use of drugs to lower Intelligence, but that's not the same as Public Education.)

Probably it's a result of the game's simplistic funding model that is unable to recognize sources of government revenue besides taxes.


If the effect line is taken literally, then it seems that the government isn't actually generating any revenue directly. The option was about subsidizing the pharmacological industry, however, so by NS logic, it should have actually increased the economy as well, leaving these departments at least unchanged indeed.

The option directly refers to subsidization in a negative manner as the govt taking complete control:

"That's a disgraceful way to think!" says equal rights activist, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "So the people who need the most help shouldn't get any? I propose that the government subsidises the production of all drugs so everyone can benefit from them, rich or not! That way the money-hungry corporations won't profit from the suffering of the masses. Of course there will be the matter of a small tax rise to fund it - but what's that when lives will be saved?"
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 11921
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:05 pm

Trotterdam wrote:#008 probably just shouldn't be given to nations with compulsory nudity, since there's already #295 as the unban issue.

Though, there's currently no unban for female-only compulsory nudity. In fact that position is in limbo as absolutely nothing else ever acknowledges the possibility.

I thought that was already the case. Fixed.

And that sounds like a draft for an aspiring author.
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Jolteonia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jolteonia » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:18 pm

At some point in the past you must have pushed nudity to be compulsory for either everyone or just woman.

I'm almost positive I have never done that, but I can't say it's impossible, I suppose. I've been doing the "my choice to dangle" option since my nation was founded though, so I don't know...

Is the "for just women" actually even an issue though? I'm very sure I've never seen that issue if it exists...

Edit: Oh, ok, I followed the link from the earlier post and apparently that issue exists as #295. But Ive definitely never seen that issue before, which makes me further believe I've never had a compulsory nudity policy.
Last edited by Jolteonia on Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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