NationStates

Dingbats wrote:However, regarding 492.1, there was only a 0.07% rise in tourism (which was expected, if underwhelming), yet saw drops of 0.13% in six industries and public education to, by your logic, facilitate that growth. Now, it's hard to compare tourists per hour to the value in currency of say book publishing (if separate rankings are even comparable at all? I don't know), but it seems a bit much. My tourism sector is probably so big it's difficult to grow it even further, I get that, however it seems to be at a point where, generally speaking, the actual effects of an issue are dwarfed by the so-called side effects.

You will never see a situation where the sum of the "quirk" side-effects are more substantial than the main effect (or even very close to it), since they're proportional to it.

The reason for this effect in Dingbats is that the Tourism ranking is a bit different. It probably shouldn't, but at the moment Tourism does not directly measure the industry's economic output, unlike Book Publishing, Arms Manufacturing, etc, but instead measures a combination of industry size and attractiveness to foreign tourists. So it's possible for the tourism industry's economic output to go up while "Tourists Per Hour" goes down, and vice versa. Which, granted, is not very intuitive.

When Dingbats passed 492.1, its tourism industry did grow in economic terms, and by substantially more than anything else shrunk, with Economic Output up 0.13% in total, but Tourists Per Hour was crimped by some decreased friendliness/compassion.

That is normally the kind of thing that's embedded into the calculation of industry size, and we should probably do that for Tourism, too.

Luna Amore wrote:

Naasseners wrote:I've seen a lot weird ones, but most have some plausible explanation.
I can't figure out 97.4, though: 'sell your trash to poor nations' significantly increases nudity. ...probably just a side effect from the other changes, but still weird.

Not seeing that one at all. Nudity shouldn't be touched by this option. When I test it on you it isn't.

Agreed, and I can't see where Naasseners has answered this issue recently either.

Pterodoria wrote:

Luna Amore wrote:It could cause an extremely small drop in that. It's a broadly anti-govt option.

Looking at your eco-friendliness graph, you went from -60.08 to -60.25 which is a change of .17 not 17%.

I think you looked at the wrong nation, Iguanarctica's score went from 906 to 809 (http://www.nationstates.net/nation=igua ... censusid=7). It's also worth noting that the next issue I answered (which is still in the same day) was to build more wind farms, which will probably have increased my eco-friendliness and cancelled out the effect of the previous issue. Your anti-government explanation makes sense though, I'll see if I can recreate this in another puppet.

Whoops, I did look at the wrong nation. When I saw .17, I figured you just misread it.

I see that 17% drop, let me look over that option and see if we need to adjust it.

Turns out it doesn't raise authoritarianism sorry guys

[violet] wrote:

Luna Amore wrote:Not seeing that one at all. Nudity shouldn't be touched by this option. When I test it on you it isn't.

Agreed, and I can't see where Naasseners has answered this issue recently either.

I should've mentioned that it was one of my puppets. But I just checked them all, and none of them have got it recently either (except for one nation that chose 97.3 instead of 97.4). So I must've got something mixed up. Sorry about that.

Jersey Republic wrote:24/7 shops raises authoritarianism appearantly

Please provide the nation that answered it, issue # and choice selected.

Luna Amore wrote:

Jersey Republic wrote:24/7 shops raises authoritarianism appearantly

Please provide the nation that answered it, issue # and choice selected.

It is the issue where the national religion requests closed shops during the sabbath. One of the options say that stores should be open 24/7. One of the effects means that authoritianism increase

Jersey Republic wrote:

Luna Amore wrote:Please provide the nation that answered it, issue # and choice selected.

It is the issue where the national religion requests closed shops during the sabbath. One of the options say that stores should be open 24/7. One of the effects means that authoritianism increase

Issue #285 option 3?

Not seeing that when tested on your nation. I see your nation answered #4 for that issue. Although that doesn't affect authoritarianism either.

Luna Amore wrote:

Jersey Republic wrote:It is the issue where the national religion requests closed shops during the sabbath. One of the options say that stores should be open 24/7. One of the effects means that authoritianism increase

Issue #285 option 3?

Not seeing that when tested on your nation. I see your nation answered #4 for that issue. Although that doesn't affect authoritarianism either.

Yeah, 1st option is closing only retail, 2nd is all stores, 3rd is 24/7 shops. 4th is less work hours, I checked and it didn't affect authoritarianism, I saw it on the details but I don't know if I'm just seeing stuff. Turns out it doesn't

Jersey Republic wrote:

Luna Amore wrote:Issue #285 option 3?

Not seeing that when tested on your nation. I see your nation answered #4 for that issue. Although that doesn't affect authoritarianism either.

Yeah, 1st option is closing only retail, 2nd is all stores, 3rd is 24/7 shops. 4th is less work hours, I'll get a screenshot of authoritarianism before & after

You answered #4 an hour ago:
58 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Jersey Republic, midnight pizza breaks are common among the work-from-home population.

Your authoritarianism hasn't changed in 4 days.

Luna Amore wrote:

Jersey Republic wrote:Yeah, 1st option is closing only retail, 2nd is all stores, 3rd is 24/7 shops. 4th is less work hours, I'll get a screenshot of authoritarianism before & after

You answered #4 an hour ago:
58 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Jersey Republic, midnight pizza breaks are common among the work-from-home population.

Your authoritarianism hasn't changed in 4 days.

Here is what happened, as I was looking at the details after the issue I saw that authroitarianism was increased. After I exited the issue completely I thought that happened, but that must have been an error. Because I looked under details and saw it. I don't know

Speaking of Eco-Friendliness: maybe it's just an another effect of lowered economy, but getting -2.7% hit to it from choosing #1 for #346 seems harsh.

1. "These oil companies must be held accountable for their reckless negligence!" yells environmentalist @@RANDOMNAME@@ while scrubbing the oil off a dolphin. "We cannot let this environmental catastrophe continue! We must stop the oil spewage and restore the environment to its former glory! And as for those greedy fat cats who caused this mess, they should foot the cleanup bill!"

That definitely doesn't sound like something that would make the nation less eco-friendly.

You're forcing the corporations to clean up their own messes, rather than having the government doing it, so government spending on Eco-Friendliness (which is what the stat is really about) is decreasing.

Did Environmental Beauty itself also go down, or just Eco-Friendliness?

Ghost Riders on the Sky issue. If you pick the third to last choice (I believe), which allows the vetoing of individual addenda, it causes a drop in intelligence. Is there any particular reason for this?

Skappola wrote:Ghost Riders on the Sky issue. If you pick the third to last choice (I believe), which allows the vetoing of individual addenda, it causes a drop in intelligence. Is there any particular reason for this?

It doesn't directly affect intelligence. In your nation it caused a 0.1% drop from 91.3 Quips Per Hour to 91.2, which is a very, very small amount, as a result of some secondary interactions. It's difficult to point at any one, because there are quite a lot and they're all minuscule effects, but if I have to, I'd blame the restriction on political freedom, since a freer political process (weakly) stimulates intelligence.

Here are some odd ones from today, in order of oddness (from greatest to least):

- In Issue #485, choosing to provide game developers with funding resulted in decreased taxation and decreased "freedom from taxation"
- In Issue #415, choosing not to ban Giraffeball resulted in increased obesity.
- In Issue #493, choosing to implement anti-doping drug tests resulted in decreased the public healthcare rating

Trotterdam wrote:Did Environmental Beauty itself also go down, or just Eco-Friendliness?

Only Eco-Friendliness went down. Which is hardly surprising since barely anything affects Environmental Beauty.
Except choices such as establishing secret police (207.3) or building a wall to keep foreigners out (47.1). Both of which raise it. ...I know that the description says otherwise, but it kind of seems like Environmental Beauty measures the appearance of the cities (how beautiful those are) instead of the quality of environment.

<<Reposting here at the request of Luna Amore>>
I recently had "That Sinking Feeling" and chose the last option where the nation advertises shipwrecks to scuba divers. I have to ask how my result can be "Tourism spikes whenever a major ship or plane is lost at sea" and then my tourism stats drop. So tourism increase but really decreases, makes total sense. Also, scuba diving is an activity, how did I get an obesity boost? How would this negatively effect employment, info tech, retail, book publishing, basket weaving, cheese exports, automobiles, and weather. This seems like someone just though they didn't like that answer so they'd screw up the stats. Why isn't there a private business issue in here where private industry does rescuing? Why must everything be more government and taxes or watch your stats burn.

But here are two favorites... I did NOT do something that would increase the number of ship wrecks or leave no one with rescue options like ending my coast guard as option 2 suggested, but I got a 23% decrease in health WITH a drop in safety. Also how the heck did this effect agriculture? Shipwrecks on land maybe?
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Luna suggested "As to why a tourist attraction option would decrease tourism. Let's use a real world example. Chernobyl is a tourist attraction, yet I doubt anyone would be shocked to find that the nuclear meltdown hurt tourism more than the Exclusion Zone tours helped it."
Though the Chernobyl event caused everyone to leave and should rightfully equate to a total zero draw, it still draws tourists and scientists. These shipwrecks are not regional disaster zones of radioactive material, and wrecks do draw tourists. Plus the materials from wrecks such as the Titanic draw many tourists to museums and the issue itself referenced a titanic type ship. Last but not least the result itself "Tourism spikes whenever a major ship or plane is lost at sea"

In the waste going to waste issue, when you choose stricter laws for dumping waste, intelligence decreases by .13 percent for some reason

A couple more:

- In Issue #459, choosing to give Colonel Custard tax cuts leads to the result "Major corporations receive tax breaks for no apparent reason," but my national taxation level increases and my freedom from taxation decreased.
- Also, corruption decreased, which sort of disagrees with the text of the response and the result.

I answered #451 on this nation with option #4 and it decreased scientific advancement, I'd think that having all these books would increase it.

And I answered issue #16 with option 2 with my puppet Mercado and it decreased Economic Freedom for some reason.

Luna Amore wrote:Looking those two over, they aren't really inconsistent.

#236: Quickie Marriages Under Scrutiny Opt 2 opens up divorce/annulments. You have more freedom over marriage
#274: Brotherly Love - A Bit Too Close To Home? Opt 4 completely bans marriage. You are limiting someone's freedom to do as they please.

Merged to the general thread about odd effects.

There's a big difference between banning something and deregulating it. Nothing in the issue text suggested anything like the former.

Supreme Court Nomination. If you pick option 3, which is the pro-civil rights judge, there is no effect to civil rights, but it causes your political rights to decrease. I suppose I can understand the political rights decrease, even if it is a bit strange, but you'd think it would have some effect on civil rights.

Skappola wrote:Supreme Court Nomination. If you pick option 3, which is the pro-civil rights judge, there is no effect to civil rights, but it causes your political rights to decrease. I suppose I can understand the political rights decrease, even if it is a bit strange, but you'd think it would have some effect on civil rights.

It seems like if your civil rights or political freedoms are at or above a certain level (possibly "World Benchmark") lots of options that normally increase them will have no effect, or even cause a decrease, presumably because those options in fact mark a reversion from a previously even more liberal policy. eg it's possible you had people directly elect judges before getting the issue, so having the government appoint one causes a decrease in political freedoms, and the policies advocated by the judge are not going to push civil rights into the "Extremely High" range where you have things like murder being legal on religious grounds, so they stay where they are just short of that line.

Icamera wrote:- In Issue #415, choosing not to ban Giraffeball resulted in increased obesity.

I've raised this with Issue Editors before. The odd effect occurs because refusing to ban Giraffeball (which causes concussions) reduces health, which is a factor in obesity. In my opinion, the issue should reduce intelligence, and increase health.