[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Torotho]

I'm having difficulty thinking of a circumstance where a sudden invocation of martial law results in immediate peace and prosperity. Either because of already advanced civil breakdown, or due to the breakdown that occurs post facto (since militaries are probably actually terrible at civil law enforcement).

What ever the workings of the game's internal doohickies, this outcome seems entirely normal and predictable.

Actually, the doohickies are quite clever and subtle here. If you've got a really poor police force, then overall crime will fall. However, if you've got a police force that's functioning but which is being unfairly maligned by the speaker, then crime rises. It's a very nice little bit of working-as-intended.

I suppose I can understand that, but 497%? If the military was anemic, I could see that, but it was higher-ranked than the police force (both were top 10%ers). It's the amount that really gets me, I've seen a lot of issues where you sort of scratch your head at the result, but those are usually fractional or a few percent-for that big a jump, I'm not sure I could get that big an increase if I tried. It makes a crime-fighting option choice doing it really wacky.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Yeah, the figures can be quite swingy. Don't look at percentages of course, look at absolute changes.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=can ... /id=743331

[Torotho]

Yeah, the figures can be quite swingy. Don't look at percentages of course, look at absolute changes.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=can ... /id=743331

Isn't +12.88 really huge, though, in absolute numbers? Went from bottom 10% to the door of the top 10% in one issue (that purported to reduce that number).

[Drasnia]

Yeah, the figures can be quite swingy. Don't look at percentages of course, look at absolute changes.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=can ... /id=743331

Isn't +12.88 really huge, though, in absolute numbers? Went from bottom 10% to the door of the top 10% in one issue (that purported to reduce that number).

It's a known oddity that nearly every nation in the game has almost no crime. If you take a high crime nation, like myself, you'll see that your rise wasn't nearly as large as you might think. I'm #99 in the world at the moment with a crime stat of 139.32, so your +12.88 increase is only 9% of my stat and only a few % of the world #1 who has a rate of 405.75. Your jump may be an oddity with midpoints (A known oddity of the simulation), though that's something only staff can actually answer.

[Torotho]

Isn't +12.88 really huge, though, in absolute numbers? Went from bottom 10% to the door of the top 10% in one issue (that purported to reduce that number).

It's a known oddity that nearly every nation in the game has almost no crime. If you take a high crime nation, like myself, you'll see that your rise wasn't nearly as large as you might think. I'm #99 in the world at the moment with a crime stat of 139.32, so your +12.88 increase is only 9% of my stat and only a few % of the world #1 who has a rate of 405.75. Your jump may be an oddity with midpoints (A known oddity of the simulation), though that's something only staff can actually answer.

Wouldn't a 9% increase be a really huge one once you're at that level though? It seems that once you get in the top brackets you'll rarely get an increase about 1%, and usually only fractions, even for issues that seem like they'd have larger effects.

Just taking a peep at your graph, you seem to be constantly answering issues that result in more crime, but it took three months for you to go up twelve points, instead of one click.

It just seems odd to go from the bottom of the world to the the top in one issue in general, especially when the issue promises to lower said stat.

[Trotterdam]

It's a known oddity that nearly every nation in the game has almost no crime.

That just means it's quite easy to meet the minimum Compliance to receive the textual description of "no crime". Numerically, the game still tracks a distinction between nations that have no crime, nations that have no crime whatsoever, and nations that absolute definitely have no crime ever why would you even think that?.

[Caracasus]

It's a known oddity that nearly every nation in the game has almost no crime.

That just means it's quite easy to meet the minimum Compliance to receive the textual description of "no crime". Numerically, the game still tracks a distinction between nations that have no crime, nations that have no crime whatsoever, and nations that absolute definitely have no crime ever why would you even think that?.

I always took the "crime is totally unknown" to mean that very serious crimes like murder, kidnapping and talking loudly in the cinema are so low that they're practically non-existent.

Crime does seem to imply serious crimes on the stats. After all, my nation has got a black market worth 135 billion, (top 54%) yet my crime rate is top 99% - very low. I guess part of that might be because what my nation would consider black market would be pretty much any market really... but even so - I can only see the crime stat and flavour text as referring to serious offenses.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

I always took the "crime is totally unknown" to mean that very serious crimes like murder, kidnapping and talking loudly in the cinema are so low that they're practically non-existent.

I've frequently had nations with "unknown" crime, but out of control youth rebelliousness (which, apparently, include motor vehicle/stereo theft).

I've chosen to envision roving street gangs of dapper gentlemen ruthlessly fighting for control of the underground helping-grandmothers-cross-the-street market. Drive-by tea and scones. The rise of order through handlebar mustachioed penny-farthing riders.

Etc.

[Ardrentt]

That just means it's quite easy to meet the minimum Compliance to receive the textual description of "no crime". Numerically, the game still tracks a distinction between nations that have no crime, nations that have no crime whatsoever, and nations that absolute definitely have no crime ever why would you even think that?.

I always took the "crime is totally unknown" to mean that very serious crimes like murder, kidnapping and talking loudly in the cinema are so low that they're practically non-existent.

Crime does seem to imply serious crimes on the stats. After all, my nation has got a black market worth 135 billion, (top 54%) yet my crime rate is top 99% - very low. I guess part of that might be because what my nation would consider black market would be pretty much any market really... but even so - I can only see the crime stat and flavour text as referring to serious offenses.

I think the reason why is because that black market is out of the total of approximately 2,000 trillion puppy sized elephants you have as the economy... which both sounds adorbs and also a little sad that they're being helped captive for currency.

More seriously, like Economic Output, the Black Market stat is measured as an absolute value, while stats like, for example, the industries are measured in per capita value: Hence why, for instance, I can have Top 10% right now in trout farming even though it's valued at 7,000 units (per capita, so it's about 2.1 trillion units, which could probably be beat by a moderately sized nation; comparing with my main nation, Sungai Pusat, Ardrentt's industry seems to trump Sungai Pusat's, except that in absolute values, Sungai Pusat has a 30 trillion units industry because it's got like 50 times the population), whereas I struggle on Economic Output, which has 21 trillion units right now, because both of them are actually shown in a different manner.

[Xqurxyu]

53.1 reduces tourism.

What determines tourism anyway? It seems to swing between extremes all the time.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

53.1 reduces tourism.

What determines tourism anyway? It seems to swing between extremes all the time.

"Just divert some funding from environmental protection,"

There is a strong association between pro-environment/environmental beauty and tourism.

That said, the other day I abolished all government environmental regulations, and my environmental beauty and tourism stats went up to the tune of nine new banners all at one.

**shrug**

[Caracasus]

I always took the "crime is totally unknown" to mean that very serious crimes like murder, kidnapping and talking loudly in the cinema are so low that they're practically non-existent.

Crime does seem to imply serious crimes on the stats. After all, my nation has got a black market worth 135 billion, (top 54%) yet my crime rate is top 99% - very low. I guess part of that might be because what my nation would consider black market would be pretty much any market really... but even so - I can only see the crime stat and flavour text as referring to serious offenses.

I think the reason why is because that black market is out of the total of approximately 2,000 trillion puppy sized elephants you have as the economy... which both sounds adorbs and also a little sad that they're being helped captive for currency.

More seriously, like Economic Output, the Black Market stat is measured as an absolute value, while stats like, for example, the industries are measured in per capita value: Hence why, for instance, I can have Top 10% right now in trout farming even though it's valued at 7,000 units (per capita, so it's about 2.1 trillion units, which could probably be beat by a moderately sized nation; comparing with my main nation, Sungai Pusat, Ardrentt's industry seems to trump Sungai Pusat's, except that in absolute values, Sungai Pusat has a 30 trillion units industry because it's got like 50 times the population), whereas I struggle on Economic Output, which has 21 trillion units right now, because both of them are actually shown in a different manner.

Yeah I guess that a few billion would be considered a rounding error in context...

Ahh, the Tiny Elephant Figurine isn't an actual tiny elephant - just miniature carvings of elephants used instead of coins... It's a historical currency now anyway, seeing as all cash/work vouchers are electronic.

Tiny elephants do sound pretty neat though.

[Bears Armed Mission]

I'm not talking about some fractional increase. My crime went up 497%, from I think the 92nd percentile to the 11th. That's nutty.

You've just sacked all of the police: They've still got to make a living somehow and they know how crime works...

^_^

[Ardrentt]

I think the reason why is because that black market is out of the total of approximately 2,000 trillion puppy sized elephants you have as the economy... which both sounds adorbs and also a little sad that they're being helped captive for currency.

More seriously, like Economic Output, the Black Market stat is measured as an absolute value, while stats like, for example, the industries are measured in per capita value: Hence why, for instance, I can have Top 10% right now in trout farming even though it's valued at 7,000 units (per capita, so it's about 2.1 trillion units, which could probably be beat by a moderately sized nation; comparing with my main nation, Sungai Pusat, Ardrentt's industry seems to trump Sungai Pusat's, except that in absolute values, Sungai Pusat has a 30 trillion units industry because it's got like 50 times the population), whereas I struggle on Economic Output, which has 21 trillion units right now, because both of them are actually shown in a different manner.

Yeah I guess that a few billion would be considered a rounding error in context...

Ahh, the Tiny Elephant Figurine isn't an actual tiny elephant - just miniature carvings of elephants used instead of coins... It's a historical currency now anyway, seeing as all cash/work vouchers are electronic.

Tiny elephants do sound pretty neat though.

Was first exposed to puppy sized elephants by the vlogbrothers, so yeah I'm sold on them.

And yeah, it pretty much is.

Feels like there should be that additional bit to the graph to state "[monetary unit] per capita" wherever appropriate so that there's no confusion.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

53.1 reduces tourism.

What determines tourism anyway? It seems to swing between extremes all the time.

"Just divert some funding from environmental protection,"

There is a strong association between pro-environment/environmental beauty and tourism.

That said, the other day I abolished all government environmental regulations, and my environmental beauty and tourism stats went up to the tune of nine new banners all at one.

**shrug**

Yeah, tourism has some odd inputs, but broadly don't expect your culture, your subsidisation of tourist industry, your transport connections or your nation being open to foreigners to have anything near the effect that a nice environment has. However, I flagged the excessive knock on effects of environment to the bosses a long time ago, and have been promised that it is online for a review at the next major game engine update.

[Corindia]

I recently answered the issue regarding whether to allow criminals to vote or not. When I chose the second option (allowing them to), I expected political freedom and civil rights to go up, maybe inclusiveness or niceness as well. Instead, nothing at all changed.

[Drasnia]

I recently answered the issue regarding whether to allow criminals to vote or not. When I chose the second option (allowing them to), I expected political freedom and civil rights to go up, maybe inclusiveness or niceness as well. Instead, nothing at all changed.

(Image)

You already had maxed out freedoms in that area so literally nothing changed because there was no change at all in your country's policy. When you get stuff like that, you'll only get that one newspaper with a headline like that, or "Old Man Yells At Cloud" or something else that would normally not be newsworthy in the slightest.

[Corindia]

I recently answered the issue regarding whether to allow criminals to vote or not. When I chose the second option (allowing them to), I expected political freedom and civil rights to go up, maybe inclusiveness or niceness as well. Instead, nothing at all changed.

(Image)

You already had maxed out freedoms in that area so literally nothing changed because there was no change at all in your country's policy. When you get stuff like that, you'll only get that one newspaper with a headline like that, or "Old Man Yells At Cloud" or something else that would normally not be newsworthy in the slightest.

That explains the cow escaping then.
Thanks!

[Sungai Pusat]

Civil rights dropped from 85 to 80.

Issue 274

4. "Duuude, marriage is like totally outdated", says a hippie, wearing a multi-colored robe and in need of a wash. "They're like, restrictive and they bring down the vibe, man. Why put people in a box; let us roam free and we can all be brothers and sisters! It's what's nature wanted!"

Selected this option, prompting that drop, which seems... odd to me.

I understand that it implies that people can no longer get married by a government body, but would that affect the people who wanted to get married anyways? Like, the largest takeaway is, indeed, there is no longer an industry related to divorcing couples because divorce no longer becomes a legal concept, but I'm not sure about why civil rights would take such a large dip.

[Drasnia]

Civil rights dropped from 85 to 80.

Issue 274

4. "Duuude, marriage is like totally outdated", says a hippie, wearing a multi-colored robe and in need of a wash. "They're like, restrictive and they bring down the vibe, man. Why put people in a box; let us roam free and we can all be brothers and sisters! It's what's nature wanted!"

Selected this option, prompting that drop, which seems... odd to me.

I understand that it implies that people can no longer get married by a government body, but would that affect the people who wanted to get married anyways? Like, the largest takeaway is, indeed, there is no longer an industry related to divorcing couples because divorce no longer becomes a legal concept, but I'm not sure about why civil rights would take such a large dip.

Because this bans marriage. People literally are unable to get married.

[Sungai Pusat]

Civil rights dropped from 85 to 80.

Issue 274



Selected this option, prompting that drop, which seems... odd to me.

I understand that it implies that people can no longer get married by a government body, but would that affect the people who wanted to get married anyways? Like, the largest takeaway is, indeed, there is no longer an industry related to divorcing couples because divorce no longer becomes a legal concept, but I'm not sure about why civil rights would take such a large dip.

Because this bans marriage. People literally are unable to get married.

Huh... well, I guess it's an interpretation thing then; I thought of that option simply as "Marry if you wanna, I don't care anymore." as opposed to "Fuck you you can't get married now roam and have mandatory free sex."

[Candlewhisper Archive]

You have a point, and I've made that same point before. Largely for me, it's a tonal thing. The option implies freedom from restrictions from its tone and choice of words, it doesn't suggest authoritarian enforcement of a marriage ban, but rather a general disregard and lack of interest in marriage and a refusal to treat marriage as anything other than a gesture between two people.

However, this has been discussed extensively in the past backstage, and as you say it's a matter of interpretation. The game code is very clear about what happens when you ban marriage, so we've gone with precedent, and the opinions of the team that it is coded right have won the day.

Them's the breaks, you can't please all the punters (or even all the editors) all the time.

[Sungai Pusat]

You have a point, and I've made that same point before. Largely for me, it's a tonal thing. The option implies freedom from restrictions from its tone and choice of words, it doesn't suggest authoritarian enforcement of a marriage ban, but rather a general disregard and lack of interest in marriage and a refusal to treat marriage as anything other than a gesture between two people.

However, this has been discussed extensively in the past backstage, and as you say it's a matter of interpretation. The game code is very clear about what happens when you ban marriage, so we've gone with precedent, and the opinions of the team that it is coded right have won the day.

Them's the breaks, you can't please all the punters (or even all the editors) all the time.

Ah, I see then. Thanks for the explanation.

[Ardrentt]

Issue 415

Whelkball - a sport that is extremely popular in Ardrentt but not so much anywhere else - is causing a slew of concussions in Ardrenttian schools. Brain trauma from the head-on collisions is causing cognitive problems and - on occasion - deaths.

“You have to stop this madness!” yells Susie Ripley, the mother of an eighthback for Ville doe Fras High School. “My son has received so many concussions that his grades are dropping. To hell with tradition, our children’s fragile brains are more important!”

Strangely, the option does not do anything to civil rights. I imagine it's the specificity of the option, since initially I thought it meant the sport couldn't be played anywhere, but in retrospect it might be more to do with not allowing it in schools (That people could still play it recreationally and the like), though one could argue that that prevents people from being able to play the sport in a professional setting, thus it limits what you could do, in a sense...

I'm not fully sure if this point makes any sense or not, I might very well be wrong on this.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Yes, I agree. It's not a major civil right, but the right to play this sport is a freedom that is being infringed. I'll raise it backstage and see what the consensus is.

Thanks for flagging.