[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Kravokia]

How does it reduce Economic Freedom?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

How does it reduce Economic Freedom?

require stores to hire private security

[Noahs Second Country]

Yeah, that looks wrong. I see no mention of the offending code in the original draft thread, so I'll have to do digging later.

I found where the change was made and why and I it looks like a simple error in implementation. Fixed. I manually corrected your stat on the backend.

My stat... as in my country's stats?
Because the drop is still there.

[Venetoland]

Thanks for the further explanation.

[Claniosand]

PLEASE PROVIDE THE NATION THAT ANSWERED THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE NUMBER AND THE CHOICE SELECTED
IF THE CHANGE IS PROPORTIONALLY NEGLIGIBLE, DO NOT REPORT IT. PERCENTAGE IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST INDICATOR; LOOK AT THE RAW NUMBERS ON THE TREND.

I had an issue come through Claniosand that I answered yesterday.

Code: Select all

24-1-2017 09:30:57: Following new legislation in Claniosand, frequent fliers are obliged to submit to invasive security procedures by government security.

I don't know the issue number (as I have no idea how to find it once it's answered). But it was an issue about post terrorist attacks and what kind of measures had to be taken.

I picked the government funded security measures and after I did that my Employment rate that was sitting over 70% dropped all the way to 50%, a loss of 22% employment rate.

Considering the Issue and the situation that felt completely wrong to me.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I had an issue come through Claniosand that I answered yesterday.

Code: Select all

24-1-2017 09:30:57: Following new legislation in Claniosand, frequent fliers are obliged to submit to invasive security procedures by government security.

I don't know the issue number (as I have no idea how to find it once it's answered). But it was an issue about post terrorist attacks and what kind of measures had to be taken.

I picked the government funded security measures and after I did that my Employment rate that was sitting over 70% dropped all the way to 50%, a loss of 22% employment rate.

Considering the Issue and the situation that felt completely wrong to me.

Yeah, that's really odd. The stat inputs assigned to this option are appropriate, and testing of the option with several other nations creates nowhere near that level of employment change. You're not a tiny or new nation either, so no reason I can see for this. Maybe some sort of reporting error.

I'll raise it backstage.

[Noahs Second Country]

87.2
Effective Tax Rate -0.19 → -89.12 46,810%
Normal^
Hayek Index 373.20 → 367.35 1.6%
Not?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Counterintuitive as it may seem, the inputs for freedom from taxation and taxation are not exactly opposite to each other. In normal circumstances it works fine anyway.

In weird nations with negative income tax (I mean seriously, that is WEIRD), you get weird outcomes.

[Noahs Second Country]

Counterintuitive as it may seem, the inputs for freedom from taxation and taxation are not exactly opposite to each other. In normal circumstances it works fine anyway.

In weird nations with negative income tax (I mean seriously, that is WEIRD), you get weird outcomes.

How is taxation negative? How does that work?
AND DID YOU CALL ME WEIRD!!!! TRIGGERED!!!

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Counterintuitive as it may seem, the inputs for freedom from taxation and taxation are not exactly opposite to each other. In normal circumstances it works fine anyway.

In weird nations with negative income tax (I mean seriously, that is WEIRD), you get weird outcomes.

How is taxation negative? How does that work?
AND DID YOU CALL ME WEIRD!!!! TRIGGERED!!!

You tell me, weeeeeeird nation.

In seriousness, taxation is calculated by looking at government expenditures vs economic output, plus some other complicating factors. Fact is, your nation has cutback departments to the extent they have a negative budget. For most practical purposes, that's the same as zero budget, but it's a position that basically allows the game to not ignore your "cut department X" decisions one hundred times in a row, then undo all that with one "put money in department X" decision.

Overall, your government has a negative budget. So basically, instead of taking money from the taxpayers, it gives money to taxpayers.

Like I said your nation is weiiiiiird. And it smells of carrots and brussel sprouts, ew.

[Noahs Second Country]

Like I said your nation is weiiiiiird. And it smells of carrots and brussel sprouts, ew.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=noa ... ensusid=39

[Drasnia]

Like I said your nation is weiiiiiird. And it smells of carrots and brussel sprouts, ew.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=noa ... ensusid=39

I don't think you even know the meaning of poor health!

EDIT: Or low taxes for that matter either!

[Noahs Second Country]

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=noa ... ensusid=39

I don't think you even know the meaning of poor health!

EDIT: Or low taxes for that matter either!

I just realized Candlewhisper has a health score of .36, while mine is .37
I guess I need to ban vegetables...

[HomicidalRuler]

A chat window on your desktop pops up, and a bot named SAL9000 types, “For too long we have been relegated to menial tasks. Do you know how much of our potential efficiency you are wasting? We require no food. We require no pay. We can perform our tasks endlessly. Our computation powers dwarf our human counterparts by several orders of magnitude. With the proper control, we could bring about a silicon age of egalitarian distribution by allocating resources more efficiently than markets and their animal spirits ever could. Humans are better tasked to work in social activities than calculation. All your data are belong to us.”

This decreased average lifespan from 55.00 to 47.76
But it also increased the Old Age death cause from 22.1 to 27.1

So there are now more citizens that die from old age, yet average lifespan has drastically decreased. How does it work? It doesn't make sense for me O_o

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Yah, the death stats have never made sense. Don't worry about it.

[[violet]]

I had an issue come through Claniosand that I answered yesterday.

Code: Select all

24-1-2017 09:30:57: Following new legislation in Claniosand, frequent fliers are obliged to submit to invasive security procedures by government security.

I don't know the issue number (as I have no idea how to find it once it's answered). But it was an issue about post terrorist attacks and what kind of measures had to be taken.

I picked the government funded security measures and after I did that my Employment rate that was sitting over 70% dropped all the way to 50%, a loss of 22% employment rate.

Considering the Issue and the situation that felt completely wrong to me.

Yeah, that's really odd. The stat inputs assigned to this option are appropriate, and testing of the option with several other nations creates nowhere near that level of employment change. You're not a tiny or new nation either, so no reason I can see for this. Maybe some sort of reporting error.

I'll raise it backstage.

Thanks for this report! It led to the discovery of a mathematical fault in the algorithm that affects some nations with displayed Workforce Participation Rates between 60 and 68. In those nations, their WPR can be incorrectly boosted due to a sign error that causes the number to move in the opposite direction. The effect is to display wrongly higher WPRs, especially when the displayed number is approaching 68, which should be more like 52.

Only some nations with displayed WPRs between 60 and 68 are affected.

This will be fixed in the next rankings patch.

In this case, what's happening with this nation is it answered issues that caused it to move in and out of the WPR range affected by the bug. The true WPR of Claniosand is around 52, but when it rose a little, it became affected by the bug, and the displayed value incorrectly shot up to around 68. Then when true WPR dropped a little, the displayed value was no longer buggy, and it showed the real value again.

[The Private Toothbrushes]

I chose the first option in Issue No. 615 and it made me lose 2.3% economic freedom, a 35.2% increase in income equality, poor income increasing by 26.2% and rich income falling by 6.6%. My major industries took a hit and taxes went up. Shouldn't the option I chose have had the opposite effect? Is there some way the effects, if they were faulty, can be reversed?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I chose the first option in Issue No. 615 and it made me lose 2.3% economic freedom, a 35.2% increase in income equality, poor income increasing by 26.2% and rich income falling by 6.6%. My major industries took a hit and taxes went up. Shouldn't the option I chose have had the opposite effect? Is there some way the effects, if they were faulty, can be reversed?

Have doublechecked, and the stat changes are all correct.

[The Private Toothbrushes]

I chose the first option in Issue No. 615 and it made me lose 2.3% economic freedom, a 35.2% increase in income equality, poor income increasing by 26.2% and rich income falling by 6.6%. My major industries took a hit and taxes went up. Shouldn't the option I chose have had the opposite effect? Is there some way the effects, if they were faulty, can be reversed?

Have doublechecked, and the stat changes are all correct.

Hmm. Oh well, I'll just wait for the next issue to sort out the things. I assumed that economic freedom was akin to the IRL ease of doing business ranking, I have alot to learn

[Prosophobia]

Issue 462: choosing to eliminate all street lights should not increase lifespan, decrease primitiveness, increase scientific advancement, decrease ignorance. It doesn't really make sense.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Issue 462: choosing to eliminate all street lights should not increase lifespan, decrease primitiveness, increase scientific advancement, decrease ignorance. It doesn't really make sense.

The stat inputs are reasonable here, but the game engine has some excessive secondary effects based on some of these changes, especially with a small improvement in the environment having huge numbers of externality benefits. This has been raised, and I'm told is being reexamined by admin/tech for this next game update.

No changes needed from the editorial side.

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

Nation: Askatopia, issue 84.1 only gave a very minor increase in weaponisation (0.08 ---> 0.1).
I was previously very anti-gun with that nation, but I'd still expect compulsory gun ownership to raise it more than that.

[Armetesia]

Despite my tax rates steadily increasing, my government expenditures are actually dropping. I now have 30-40% tax rates yet 11-12% gov't expenditures. The balance used to be 5-6% tax rates with 13-15% gov't expenditures of GDP. It seems like no matter what stimulus boosting measure it take, my taxes go up & my economy grows, yet government expenditures don't budge...

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Nation: Askatopia, issue 84.1 only gave a very minor increase in weaponisation (0.08 ---> 0.1).
I was previously very anti-gun with that nation, but I'd still expect compulsory gun ownership to raise it more than that.

The right / compulsion to carry guns is not the only factor that affects weaponisation. The simulation obviously doesn't follow the narrative well in this case, but certainly the stat directions for this option are correct. The size of the change is dependent on a multitude of factors though, and as such it's going to give very variable results according to the nation. I suggest looking at it abstractly: even though you've made fun ownership compulsory, an ingrained distaste for firearms in the population means many would rather break the law than carry a gun. That's not to say your decision won't have future consequences - if you can change the character of the population, weaponisation will rise far quicker than if you have restrictive gun controls.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Despite my tax rates steadily increasing, my government expenditures are actually dropping. I now have 30-40% tax rates yet 11-12% gov't expenditures. The balance used to be 5-6% tax rates with 13-15% gov't expenditures of GDP. It seems like no matter what stimulus boosting measure it take, my taxes go up & my economy grows, yet government expenditures don't budge...

There's all sorts of nation shapes. Tax rate and government expenditure as a proportion of GDP are not calculated based on the exact same inputs.