[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Umeria]

559.1, "The government needs to guarantee that every young person can get a job". So why does employment go down?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

559.1, "The government needs to guarantee that every young person can get a job". So why does employment go down?

Looks like a case of weird coding interactions to me, easily fixable. I'll take this to the team to see if we can change it.

[Maljaratas]

In how-did-I-manage-to-notice-this theater:

I am disappointed that #569 option 3 (encouraging the development of faster cars for standard road use) does not boost Pizza Delivery.

I don't think the performance of high end sports cars is the limiting factor in pizza delivery speed...

I stuck that over in the Awesome/Funny Quotes Thread.

The actual problem I have:
For once, an effect line actually seems normal.

I have my national animal as the "Jellyfish"
I answered 505.3.

My citizens are having visions of giant pink jellyfish. Therefore, I must ban SpongeBob.

[Concordant Opposition]

Why does Option 107.2 increase Civil Rights?

This feels like a set up but how can I not resist.

"The game's calculation of stats is relativistic."

Happy with that?

[Trotterdam]

In what bizarre circumstance can it possibly make sense for #229 option 3 to make Integrity go up? (75.83 -> 78.13)

[Candlewhisper Archive]

In what bizarre circumstance can it possibly make sense for #229 option 3 to make Integrity go up? (75.83 -> 78.13)

Good one, looking at that, that's a straight and obvious miscode I can see straight away.

Will get someone to fix that.

Unfortunately, the problems go deeper than that: the coding for how corruption is calculated is counter-logical in a few places. I've previously had a word with the powers that be about changing this, and its being looked into. However, with the recent tech problems I doubt its high on the list.

Expect this issue to give funny results for a little while to come.

[Trotterdam]

On further consideration, maybe the government was previously so stagnant, that allowing people to bribe government officials into doing their jobs represents a net increase in government reliability? (That wouldn't be entirely out-of-character for the nation I got this on.)

Chaotic Good people can use bribery and blackmail too, after all, if the situation is desperate enough.

...I still say it should probably lower Integrity.

[Christian Democrats]

Why does Option 107.2 increase Civil Rights?

This feels like a set up but how can I not resist.

"The game's calculation of stats is relativistic."

Happy with that?

No. Issue #107 doesn't deal with Civil Rights (as defined by the game); rather, it deals with Compassion, Economic Freedom, Health, and Inclusiveness.

[Concordant Opposition]

This feels like a set up but how can I not resist.

"The game's calculation of stats is relativistic."

Happy with that?

No. Issue #107 doesn't deal with Civil Rights (as defined by the game); rather, it deals with Compassion, Economic Freedom, Health, and Inclusiveness.

After my recent objection and general game ignorance, I'm now curious to know where civil rights are defined for NationStates. Is there a page for that or a forum post somewhere I can look at?

Besides, health is a basic civil right is it not (according the United Nations)? In the context of the UN, if a Government is subsidizing a drug that saves people then they are surely complying with the UN covenant on civil rights by increasing life expectancy. No?

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

No. Issue #107 doesn't deal with Civil Rights (as defined by the game); rather, it deals with Compassion, Economic Freedom, Health, and Inclusiveness.

After my recent objection and general game ignorance, I'm now curious to know where civil rights are defined for NationStates. Is there a page for that or a forum post somewhere I can look at?

Besides, health is a basic civil right is it not (according the United Nations)? In the context of the UN, if a Government is subsidizing a drug that saves people then they are surely complying with the UN covenant on civil rights by increasing life expectancy. No?

Nationstates doesn't seem to have a particularly consistent definition of civil rights. Sometimes civil rights simply refer to social freedoms, which is why legalising terrorism and human sacrifices increases your civil rights. Sometimes though, as in this case, civil rights refer to the government providing something for its citizens. I guess the problem is that different people have different ideas of what they consider to be civil rights.

[Christian Democrats]

After my recent objection and general game ignorance, I'm now curious to know where civil rights are defined for NationStates. Is there a page for that or a forum post somewhere I can look at?

Besides, health is a basic civil right is it not (according the United Nations)? In the context of the UN, if a Government is subsidizing a drug that saves people then they are surely complying with the UN covenant on civil rights by increasing life expectancy. No?

Nationstates doesn't seem to have a particularly consistent definition of civil rights. Sometimes civil rights simply refer to social freedoms, which is why legalising terrorism and human sacrifices increases your civil rights. Sometimes though, as in this case, civil rights refer to the government providing something for its citizens. I guess the problem is that different people have different ideas of what they consider to be civil rights.

The game defines Civil Rights as non-interference in one's personal affairs.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_nations?censusid=0

Giving people free medicine, therefore, is not a Civil Right.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

The civil right being affected here is the freedom to take drugs.

I think I agree though, I reckon Sirocco was in error in assigning that stat to this option: government subsidy of drugs has nothing to do with the civil right to take drugs.

#107 was a long time ago, and the current team might have made different choices. I'll run it by the editing team and see if a change can be approved, but we'll have to discuss it first, of course.

[Bedetopia]

The civil right being affected here is the freedom to take drugs.

I think I agree though, I reckon Sirocco was in error in assigning that stat to this option: government subsidy of drugs has nothing to do with the civil right to take drugs.

#107 was a long time ago, and the current team might have made different choices. I'll run it by the editing team and see if a change can be approved, but we'll have to discuss it first, of course.

Do keep us informed of this please. I like the issue because it boosts Healthcare, but since it somehow legalizes recreational drugs I'm forced to dismiss it.

[Wallenburg]

Issue 414.2, which involved putting funds into restoring inundated suburbs, increased my defense spending by 10.5%. While I'm certainly happy about that, such an effect makes no sense.

[Trotterdam]

I guess it depends on just how organized those raccoons are...

[Luna Amore]

I guess it depends on just how organized those raccoons are...

This is the now the official explanation.

[Wallenburg]

I guess it depends on just how organized those raccoons are...

This is the now the official explanation.

As funny as that may be, military spending shouldn't be affected. It's a matter of business subsidization and suburban revitalization. I don't see any special forces realistically entering flooded towns to fix roads and refloor duplexes.

[Luna Amore]

This is the now the official explanation.

As funny as that may be, military spending shouldn't be affected. It's a matter of business subsidization and suburban revitalization. I don't see any special forces realistically entering flooded towns to fix roads and refloor duplexes.

It's a side-effect that can't reasonably be fixed. It's a small boost. The raccoons have militarized and must be stopped before revitalization can commence.

[Trotterdam]

Remember that there's another issue that can result in "nighttime sightings of raccoons sporting Circle-A patches and bandanna masks". One thing is clear: the world of NationStates has some pretty hardcore raccoons.

[Maljaratas]

Remember that there's another issue that can result in "nighttime sightings of raccoons sporting Circle-A patches and bandanna masks". One thing is clear: the world of NationStates has some pretty hardcore raccoons.

Which issue is that?

[Wallenburg]

As funny as that may be, military spending shouldn't be affected. It's a matter of business subsidization and suburban revitalization. I don't see any special forces realistically entering flooded towns to fix roads and refloor duplexes.

It's a side-effect that can't reasonably be fixed. It's a small boost. The raccoons have militarized and must be stopped before revitalization can commence.

10.5% is not a small boost. 0.82% is. Even 1.14%. Not 10.5%. But if it's impossible to make the issue make sense, then I guess it doesn't matter how large the increase is.

[Dotangina]

Chose 427.3 and got literally no changes.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Chose 427.3 and got literally no changes.

Why would you? Your nation already is in a position where the choice represents the status quo.

That happens a lot as nations progress. My puppet DoNoHarm often finds that authoritarian options have no visible effect, for example.

[Concordant Opposition]

The game defines Civil Rights as non-interference in one's personal affairs.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_nations?censusid=0

Giving people free medicine, therefore, is not a Civil Right.

Is that it? Wasn't this game modeled on the United Nations?

[Luna Amore]

It's a side-effect that can't reasonably be fixed. It's a small boost. The raccoons have militarized and must be stopped before revitalization can commence.

10.5% is not a small boost. 0.82% is. Even 1.14%. Not 10.5%. But if it's impossible to make the issue make sense, then I guess it doesn't matter how large the increase is.

It can be. 10% is relative. It was not a large jump overall.