[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Muiria]

Issue #320, Criminals to Vote? http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 3&t=88#320

Option two had no effect on any stats, whatsoever. This should have at least raised political freedoms a bit, no?

[Gezirah]

Issue #444, Virtually Assured Destruction: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 3&t=88#444

Option 4 only lowers taxes by 0.07%, which seems unreasonably small considering the blows it does to weapons manufacturing.

[Eahland]

#194 "A Request For Military Aid", option 3 (invade the hapless country and loot its resources).
Arms Manufacturing went down.

Because looting the hapless country's military & "dual use" resources reduced your procurement needs?

We're ranked 214th in the world for Arms Manufacturing. I think it's unlikely that we consider anyone's foreign junk to be an adequate substitute for good Eahlisc hardware. Especially after we've curb-stomped it. It'd be like the U.S. deciding to cut back on Abrams production in order to use the crappy T-72 knockoffs they killed in Iraq instead.

And as I mentioned, one of the headlines I got implied increased Arms Manufacturing, but the stats dump showed it lowered.

This was accompanied by a general increase in various economic metrics and in most of my weaker industries. Arms Manufacturing and IT, which I believe are my two strongest (in absolute terms, though not in world ranking), went down (IT only very slightly). I suspect this is a flaw in the economic model. I've seen a number of times with various issues that it seems to be treating the economy, in at least some circumstances, as a zero-sum game, where boosts to one industry are accompanied by countervailing losses to the others, even in situations where there isn't any obvious direct causative link. In this case, it appears to be bringing the weak industries up, and then compensating by bringing the strong ones down. Even though one of those is one that should clearly be boosted by a policy of foreign adventurism.

[Ceretis]

This was accompanied by a general increase in various economic metrics and in most of my weaker industries. Arms Manufacturing and IT, which I believe are my two strongest (in absolute terms, though not in world ranking), went down (IT only very slightly). I suspect this is a flaw in the economic model. I've seen a number of times with various issues that it seems to be treating the economy, in at least some circumstances, as a zero-sum game, where boosts to one industry are accompanied by countervailing losses to the others, even in situations where there isn't any obvious direct causative link. In this case, it appears to be bringing the weak industries up, and then compensating by bringing the strong ones down. Even though one of those is one that should clearly be boosted by a policy of foreign adventurism.

Interesting theory. I'd agree, it doesn't seem to happen all the time, just some issues seem to follow this trend with a whole range of unrelated industrial effects. It's almost like a Rube Goldberg machine series of zero sum effects. One goes up pleasantly, and the rest get a very slight haircut if you cared to look at the expanded results.

[Agadin]

128.2 (Ban The Burka?) dropped Nudity by 47.5%.
The problem is, that doesn't seem to mesh with the result text:
"There have been sightings of people walking around dressed in nothing but leopard-skin g-strings for 'religious reasons'."

[Mironus]

101.2:

"I agree that the pageants should be banned," pontificates renowned moralist, the Ever So Slightly Reverend Gertie Suzuki. "But purely in the name of moral decency! All those fashion stores that sponsor these contests make lots of money from this blasphemy and that is just plain wrong! These women wear revealing clothing that seek to entice and seduce young men. As such, we should go a step further, and institute a dress code! Long, plaid skirts for the girls, with necklines that never drop below the base of the neck! Only then will the women of our nation be cleansed of sin!"

"Women who display their ankles are shunned by society."

Civil Rights increased by 218%, Authoritarianism dropped by 13.5%.

[Convergea]

"Give Us Money!" Quoth The Poet
Option 2 is supposed to remove funding for special interest groups but neither have my spirituality or industry funding have disappeared.

[Convergea]

101.2:

"I agree that the pageants should be banned," pontificates renowned moralist, the Ever So Slightly Reverend Gertie Suzuki. "But purely in the name of moral decency! All those fashion stores that sponsor these contests make lots of money from this blasphemy and that is just plain wrong! These women wear revealing clothing that seek to entice and seduce young men. As such, we should go a step further, and institute a dress code! Long, plaid skirts for the girls, with necklines that never drop below the base of the neck! Only then will the women of our nation be cleansed of sin!"

"Women who display their ankles are shunned by society."

Civil Rights increased by 218%, Authoritarianism dropped by 13.5%.

Apparently your nation used to shun people who showed less than you shun them for now.

[Kartunium]

Issue #001.3 "Abolish... laws that discriminate against same-sex marriages."
Civil Rights dropped from 68 to 66...

... because? : ...
issue #091.1 "...civil rights spokesman... declares, 'Churches are business organizations...
It's unfair that they don't have to pay the same taxes that everyone else does'"
was selected in the same session?

Seems like both should have upped CR, and the second should at worst have had no effect...

[Pterodoria]

Issue 304 option 5 with Pencil Sharpeners 2 decreased employment. I'd wouldn't expect allowing parents to work full time while raising a child would decrease employment, and the government is surely creating quite a few new jobs to provide all this daycare. It also decreased most of my industries too, by a small amount, which is probably linked.

[Gnejs]

Issue #001.3 "Abolish... laws that discriminate against same-sex marriages."
Civil Rights dropped from 68 to 66...

... because? : ...
issue #091.1 "...civil rights spokesman... declares, 'Churches are business organizations...
It's unfair that they don't have to pay the same taxes that everyone else does'"
was selected in the same session?

Seems like both should have upped CR, and the second should at worst have had no effect...

The first one actually increased your civil rights, whereas the other one did drop it (I guess you could call it slightly restricting people's right to worship, or something along that line).

[Gnejs]

101.2:

"I agree that the pageants should be banned," pontificates renowned moralist, the Ever So Slightly Reverend Gertie Suzuki. "But purely in the name of moral decency! All those fashion stores that sponsor these contests make lots of money from this blasphemy and that is just plain wrong! These women wear revealing clothing that seek to entice and seduce young men. As such, we should go a step further, and institute a dress code! Long, plaid skirts for the girls, with necklines that never drop below the base of the neck! Only then will the women of our nation be cleansed of sin!"

"Women who display their ankles are shunned by society."

Civil Rights increased by 218%, Authoritarianism dropped by 13.5%.

It seems nudity was compulsory in your nation, and the game views making people wear certain clothes as less oppressive than forcing them to wear nothing at all.

128.2 (Ban The Burka?) dropped Nudity by 47.5%.
The problem is, that doesn't seem to mesh with the result text:
"There have been sightings of people walking around dressed in nothing but leopard-skin g-strings for 'religious reasons'."

Similar explanation for you. While nudity wasn't compulsory, it seems your government was pretty hard-handed in their beliefs that people should'nt be wearing too much clothes. Therefore your nudity decreased (more freedom to choose what you wear/not wear) with picking this option, although I agree that change doesn't seem very intuitive when you read the "text".

[Gnejs]

Issue 304 option 5 with Pencil Sharpeners 2 decreased employment. I'd wouldn't expect allowing parents to work full time while raising a child would decrease employment, and the government is surely creating quite a few new jobs to provide all this daycare. It also decreased most of my industries too, by a small amount, which is probably linked.

I dont' have a good explanation for that. Someone more senior probably does, though. I do note that the decrease was very slight.

[Eater of Cities]

Issue #34 Don't puff on me, says non smokers
I picked option number three, it says
Get your hands off my fag!" wheezes long-time smoker @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I've been smoking for fifty years and it's never done me any harm. Helps me concentrate, it does! The government should back off on trying to tell me what I can put into my own body. Telling a smoker he can't light up in a restaurant is discrimination, pure and simple. If you want to put a stop to unfairness, stop that."
The result for picking it says
8-year olds can be seen lighting up in public.

I try to get high crime, weaponization, and drug use, however, this REDUCED my drug use, by 31%. Shouldn't it increase instead of decrease?

[Luna Amore]

Issue #34 Don't puff on me, says non smokers
I picked option number three, it says
Get your hands off my fag!" wheezes long-time smoker @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I've been smoking for fifty years and it's never done me any harm. Helps me concentrate, it does! The government should back off on trying to tell me what I can put into my own body. Telling a smoker he can't light up in a restaurant is discrimination, pure and simple. If you want to put a stop to unfairness, stop that."
The result for picking it says
8-year olds can be seen lighting up in public.

I try to get high crime, weaponization, and drug use, however, this REDUCED my drug use, by 31%. Shouldn't it increase instead of decrease?

Most nations will see a rise. However you had mandatory drug use. From the issue:

The government should back off on trying to tell me what I can put into my own body.

You gave them a choice. Some people will abstain now.

[Advice animals]

Issue 183, "Buy A Better Baby?" decreased my economy when I selected the first option (allowing people to buy genetically engineered babies).

(The number didn't change, just the economy ranking.)

[Convergea]

Issue 56: "Give Us Money!" Quoth The Poet
Option 2 is supposed to remove funding for special interest groups but neither have my spirituality or industry funding have disappeared.

I think mine may have been skipped, but I don't want to sound impatient.

[Trotterdam]

I've noticed that "X used to be compulsory but is now only legal" seems to come up rather often as an explanation of why something unexpectedly went down in an option that seems to support it.

I think the real problem is that not enough issues acknowledge the possibility that these things can be compulsory. Realistically (well, to the degree that making nudity, gun ownership, or drug use compulsory is realistic), in a nation where such policies exist, the debate would be somewhat different. Often issues just don't have any option (other than dismissal, which can be counterintuitive in this case) that supports the compulsion, rather than banning vs legalizing. And often the legalizing option could be mistaken for a compulsion-supporting text aside from some small print.

[Eahland]

#280 ("Oh The Humanity!"), option 1 (strictly enforce safety regulations on dangerous industries, make them pay recompense for damages) made my Death Rate go up?

Also, the industries affected seem to be "strong industries get stronger and weak industries get weaker" rather than anything that seems based on how dangerous they might be. I mean, okay, loss of airships might mean a direct boost to Automobile Manufacturing, and I'll never complain about my Arms Manufacturing getting better, but they seem like industries that should be more negatively affected by safety regulation than, say, Basket Weaving, Book Publishing, and Cheese Exports, all of which went down.

eta:
#341 ("Where in the Woods Is Cindy SanFrancisco?"), option 1 (hire more rescue workers) lowers Civil Rights?? Option 3 (implant mandatory GPS trackers) should obviously do that, but option 1? Why?

[Kethania]

Effects of issue 324 on my nation. How is that even possible?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Can you give the full screenshot of all the effects the issue had? That might be a little more enlightening. My guess based on what you showed us is that because the Government Size went up, it was harder to escape taxes, even if they are lower. Unless "Freedom From Taxation" doesn't take a nations enforcement of taxation into account.

[Phydios]

Can you give the full screenshot of all the effects the issue had? That might be a little more enlightening. My guess based on what you showed us is that because the Government Size went up, it was harder to escape taxes, even if they are lower. Unless "Freedom From Taxation" doesn't take a nations enforcement of taxation into account.

Issue effects aren't currently saved anywhere, so unless they took a full screenshot beforehand, they don't have one or any way to get one.

[The Candy Of Bottles]

Can you give the full screenshot of all the effects the issue had? That might be a little more enlightening. My guess based on what you showed us is that because the Government Size went up, it was harder to escape taxes, even if they are lower. Unless "Freedom From Taxation" doesn't take a nations enforcement of taxation into account.

Issue effects aren't currently saved anywhere, so unless they took a full screenshot beforehand, they don't have one or any way to get one.

More accurately, only mods and issue editors can see past issue effects. Also, Tarbellville answered 23.1, and Mining went up 37,550%, over a thousand points on the scale itself.

[Phydios]

Issue effects aren't currently saved anywhere, so unless they took a full screenshot beforehand, they don't have one or any way to get one.

More accurately, only mods and issue editors can see past issue effects. Also, Tarbellville answered 23.1, and Mining went up 37,550%, over a thousand points on the scale itself.

Ah. I forgot they were saved on the backend.

[Kethania]

Can you give the full screenshot of all the effects the issue had? That might be a little more enlightening. My guess based on what you showed us is that because the Government Size went up, it was harder to escape taxes, even if they are lower. Unless "Freedom From Taxation" doesn't take a nations enforcement of taxation into account.

Why would "Freedom From Taxation" take law enforcement into account? Its description ("World Census financial experts assessed nations across a range of direct and indirect measures in order to determine which placed the lowest tax burden on their citizens") does not mention it.

And sorry, I didn't save all the effects.