[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Celestial Maidens]

Anyway, Trotterdam, my Trout Fishing and Agriculture were actually two of my better areas, and I think both of them were at one point among my absolute strongest industries/sectors. They weren't weak, and the result I got from Do You Want Fries With That? is baffling.

Yes, there are several issues that can completely ruin both of those industries. Regardless of how high they were. One example is building dams: that always reduces Trout Fishing by 100%. ...I guess there are no lake trouts in the NationStates universe.

As for agriculture? Note that the actual name of that industry is 'Beef-Based Agriculture'. Even though the statistics simply list it as Sector: Agriculture. So banning meat will kill it off.

As an aside, I think that option should've definitely raised the Black Market stat. If you suddenly ban meat, many people would have hard time adjust and end up resorting to the black market to get meat...

That option had nothing to do with banning meat. There is 100% such a thing as organic meat production. Like I've already suggested, organic and meat are not mutually exclusive.

[Trotterdam]

The only reason why taxes would increase is that the increase in property vandalization would cause an increase in government expenditures towards repairing these properties--which then gets met with an increase in taxes. However, this choice comes with no implication that the government will pay for any criminal actions done by arsonists. As a matter of fact, it suggests just the opposite: that arson will become legal and that the government will do NOTHING to alleviate damages. And I should mention that my government does not autonomously cover property damage done in criminal activity, so if destructive criminal activity occurs, the government should not autonomously end up increasing taxes.

Based on how this kind of thing has been explained in the past in this thread, I'd guess that the widespread arson damaging your economy means that the government now needs to seize a greater percentage of your total wealth in order to continue paying for the same services.

I'm going to take the extreme here. If it happens to be the case that previously, the newspaper industry was just so big that it accounted for a large portion of Svothlore's economy (which it wasn't); and then suddenly and spontaneously, demand for the newspapers suddenly falls, and it falls tremendously, then that would still wouldn't have a negative affect on the economy. The worst case scenario is that Svothlore would see a temporary decline in employment because those who previously worked in the newspaper industry are now scuttling about trying to find a new job (although, employment didn't change). However, a shift in demand for newspapers is also accommodated for by an increase in demand for other forms of media consumption, like with electronic media. Thus, the unemployment would be frictional and temporary, and in the end, the economy would be no worse off. Doing anything different by way of subsidies or bailouts would deliver a greater harm to the economy because citizens are no longer spending money in the way that's optimal to them.

In real life? Yes. NationStates doesn't work that way, and to my knowledge never has.

[Dunraven]

418.2: Abolishing the coast guard significantly raised Crime, lowered Law Enforcement, and... lowered Black Market? Is that last one correct? I'd expect that it'd significantly increase smuggling, etc. Which is Black Market, no?

[The Candy Of Bottles]

193.2 just resulted in an increase in auto manufacturing of over %100,000 on my puppet Ducktrap.

[Venetoland]

Why would gov't control of donated breastmilk improve the weather? So random.

[Trotterdam]

193.2 just resulted in an increase in auto manufacturing of over %100,000 on my puppet Ducktrap.

Ducktrap's automobile manufacturing is now (after another three issues) 1611.97 (42.2% in the world), which is not that good. It must have been almost zero before, so it just looks like a big change as an artifact of the report page showing percentage-based changes rather than the mostly additive ones that the game uses internally.

[Luna Amore]

193.2 just resulted in an increase in auto manufacturing of over %100,000 on my puppet Ducktrap.

Henry Ford Productivity Index -1.41 → 1597.08 113,400%
That's a beautiful percentage change right there. It's an unbelievably gigantic change relative to where you were, but just a big change relative to the world stage. It's most likely caused by the same flaw that caused TS' tourism dive:

That is quite the drop, I'll have to look into that.

There is a flaw in the underlying calculations that will need to be fixed. [v] is looking into it.

[Greater Hunnia]

#211: Unconventional Weapons Under Fire -option 1 causes massive drop in Weaponisation stat

The Issue
A collection of citizens, civil rights workers, and concerned mothers have signed a petition to stop the manufacturing of the 'BFG-69' (AKA 'the Organ Grinder'), a new rifle planned to be used in the military which works by shredding people's internal organs.

The Debate
1. "If we don't produce these weapons we will be left behind in the arms race," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, director of the Alliance of Rifles, Grenades, and Handguns. "These weapons are the future and it won't just stop with the BFG-69. We're planning on introducing the Bone-Breaker @@POPULATION_VALUE@@-DX Sonic Rocket Launcher next year along with our anthrax grenade line. If @@NAME@@ is going to stay ahead of the game then it'll just have to accept that highly destructive weaponry is part of life. We'd also like to sell it commercially to your police force and citizens if you'd just sign here...?"

The effect:
Weaponisation: -19.4%

This makes me mad. I expected finally getting into the top 5% of Weaponisation stat but noooo...

[Celestial Maidens]

Luna Amore, neither the option text of the issue (Issue 483: Do You Want Fries With That?, Option 4) I mentioned or the effect text suggests that meat would be banned, and yet I received an issue that indicated meat was banned. Is it possible to have this issue fixed?

[Luna Amore]

Luna Amore, neither the option text of the issue (Issue 483: Do You Want Fries With That?, Option 4) I mentioned or the effect text suggests that meat would be banned, and yet I received an issue that indicated meat was banned. Is it possible to have this issue fixed?

4. "Eww, fast food," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, sipping a glass of almond milk to wash down a fresh kale salad. "We should just get rid of it altogether. Who could be bothered with those cheap, greasy trans-fats? Yuck! Gluttony gone amok as far as I'm concerned. We should aim for a higher standard of food: vegetarian, vegan, organic. C'est magnifique!"

[MalwareDie]

Luna Amore, neither the option text of the issue (Issue 483: Do You Want Fries With That?, Option 4) I mentioned or the effect text suggests that meat would be banned, and yet I received an issue that indicated meat was banned. Is it possible to have this issue fixed?

4. "Eww, fast food," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, sipping a glass of almond milk to wash down a fresh kale salad. "We should just get rid of it altogether. Who could be bothered with those cheap, greasy trans-fats? Yuck! Gluttony gone amok as far as I'm concerned. We should aim for a higher standard of food: vegetarian, vegan, organic. C'est magnifique!"

But meat can be organic. If this option is meant to ensure that your nation bans meat, organic should be struck from the option text, only leaving behind vegetarian and vegan.

[Menta Lee-IL]

Issue: 455, Police On Overkill Mode?

Chose Option 2:

The offending tank drives up to your office with sirens blaring before stopping just before it hits the building. The tank's turret swivels towards your head before the hatch swings open and Officer Bianca Peters pops out. "Howdy! So ... you heard about that robbery we crushed - literally - downtown with Bessie here? I just want to say that militarization is the best thing that ever happened to law enforcement. Never been easier to strike fear into the hearts of criminals! In fact, you should loosen the rules of procurement for police equipment. Then we could have some real toys! To deal with gangs, of course, not to run around like drunken idiots."

Effects: DECREASED law enforcement spending and military spending, not largely, but still. I'm working so hard to bolster these areas and they keep decreasing because of these, to me, erroneous effects. Surely to God this would have increased both, or at least law enforcement? With 3 or 4 different issues as of late, choosing options that I have felt would increase these areas have resulted in decreases. I don't know if it's something specific in my nation's make up as has been suggested, but I cannot play the game using logic, because whatever I feel is the logical option has had the opposite effect of what I'm hoping for.

[Muiria]

Issue 115, @@NAME@@'s Schoolchildren Not Learning The Lingua Franca: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 3&t=88#115

I chose option two, as I'm trying to cut taxes down to the absolute minimum-to-none, but was surprised to see a massive increase of taxation, by about 11% (in point values, not actual taxation). I know I've seen before that if some stat is already particularly low, it'll automatically be raised during some issues, but option two clearly stated it would 'give taxpayers a breather', so I think this deserves an exception.

[Muiria]

Another one, issue 459, Murder he Shouted: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 3&t=88#459

Option 1, raises taxes despite the description distinctly saying that corporations were getting tax breaks.

[Trotterdam]

I cannot play the game using logic

This actually seems remarkably appropiate to your nation

Another one, issue 459, Murder he Shouted: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=88#459

Option 1, raises taxes despite the description distinctly saying that corporations were getting tax breaks.

Probably because the game doesn't model separate tax rates for corporations and other people, so it instead models this by raising taxes but giving them back to corporations via business subsidization.

[Willy Beamish]

Banning alcohol in 434.4 (Fraternity Furor) dropped the whole Beverage Sales industry by 100%, down to zero.

That's totally uncool. It should drop, sure, but in the other issues that stat covers all drinks: fast food issues raise it (283.3: more soda production), etc. So why does banning alcohol equal banning all drinks?

[Eahland]

#194 "A Request For Military Aid", option 3 (invade the hapless country and loot its resources).

Arms Manufacturing went down.

Moreover, one of the headlines I got was "Revitalized Military Supplier Promises Jobs, Discounted Weapons", which seems to me to imply increased Arms Manufacturing.

[Gnark]

#116 "Soda Sales Hits New 'High'", option 1 (do not ban narcotic beverages) has no effect on Recreational Drug Use?

[Bears Armed]

Effects: DECREASED law enforcement spending and military spending, not largely, but still. I'm working so hard to bolster these areas and they keep decreasing because of these, to me, erroneous effects. Surely to God this would have increased both, or at least law enforcement?

Bearing in mind how low your nation's crime rate is said to be, maybeso giving the police these extra toys helped them push crime so low that now you simply don't need as much law-enforcement?

#194 "A Request For Military Aid", option 3 (invade the hapless country and loot its resources).
Arms Manufacturing went down.

Because looting the hapless country's military & "dual use" resources reduced your procurement needs?

[Kaboomlandia]

Kaboomlandia.
#100 "Road Rage Rampage", option 1 (expand the freeway network)

This option expanded my public transport network by 8,693%, when option 2 (which specifically says to increase public transport) should be doing that.

[Ceretis]

Sizing Up The Competition - Selected option 2

Biggest increase is crime followed by weaponization and ignorance? WTF? Yes, when I want to cut crime I think let's switch to the metric system because keeping an imperial system means riots and we become morons!!
Also how does this increase taxes? Why should scientists doing their jobs mean that we lose scientific advancement as well? Drop in tourism, Drop in religiousness? Noticeable drop in many industries (who don't need to do any conversions from the existing system.)

Somehow this also effects fish, and welfare, and a 100% decrease in public transportation? Sizable decrease in the environment for what reason????
Also a loss of 50% of my mining industry, 25% of public healthcare, and how the does this somehow prevent my police from fighting crime with a nearly 4% loss????

I remember this one from before the great switch and it used to keep you on the imperial system with a decrease in taxes and an increase in culture. This is now a direct "F You" to anyone who chooses this option as it increases taxes, screws your industry and agriculture, Increases crime, makes you into morons while decreasing science, kills tourism, ruins the environment, ruins mining, ruins healthcare, ruins public transit, etc.

You'd think I chose to murder my scientists, irradiate my nation, and not allow them to use measurements. WTF?

[Willy Beamish]

This is now a direct "F You" to anyone who chooses this option as it increases taxes, screws your industry and agriculture, Increases crime, makes you into morons while decreasing science, kills tourism, ruins the environment, ruins mining, ruins healthcare, ruins public transit, etc.

Hey, some of us are trying to have high Crime and low public services... That sounds like the perfect option for this nation.

[Ceretis]

This is now a direct "F You" to anyone who chooses this option as it increases taxes, screws your industry and agriculture, Increases crime, makes you into morons while decreasing science, kills tourism, ruins the environment, ruins mining, ruins healthcare, ruins public transit, etc.

Hey, some of us are trying to have high Crime and low public services... That sounds like the perfect option for this nation.

It really does sound like the perfect option for nations seeking that end. I would have through these outcomes would have come though from say selecting Option 3 which outlaws measurements, but apparently you can either ban all measurements or just choose to not switch to the metric system for the same results.

[Jute]

Promoting study of the arts means less funds left for hard sciences, and more promotion of romanticized but inaccurate views of the world.

What. How the hell are artists like Orwell, the author of Brave New World, and all those writers who write about social issues like war, poverty, racism etc, how in the world are they romanticizing it? That's the worst strawman of "artists" I have ever come across.

Not to mention that "the arts" probably also includes humanities, who are literally the epitome of the opposite of romanticizing the world, and instead try to understand how it really is: history, ethnology, etc.

Bumping this because I didn't get an answer to it.

Also, are the percents absolute, or can they differ for the same issue based on past decisions? Having scientific advancement down by almost 30 % for the result "The government's religious works are headed by a New Age guru." seems a bit high to me, but maybe there's something else factoring in here. (I'd have found a decrease of 5 %, maximum 10 % realistic)

[Trotterdam]

Also, are the percents absolute, or can they differ for the same issue based on past decisions?

The game usually modifies stats by absolute numbers rather than percentages, so the same issue can give -3 to a stat that is currently 10 or -3 to a stat that is currently 500, and it'll look like a very different percentage, but it's really not.

It's also possible for the amount of change to genuinely depend on your nation, typically because reaffirming a previous choice is less noticeable than suddenly reversing your previous policy.