[SUBMITTED] Project @@NAME@@

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Final version:

Name:

Project @@NAME@@

Description:

Historically the broad international consensus has always been to use the Maxcator Projection to depict the world on flat maps. The downside to this is that this projection makes @@NAME@@ look disproportionately small, as well as tucking it away on the edge of the map. After a recent TV drama made this a hot topic, disgruntled patriots are pressing you for a government stance on this.

Validity:

No autarky

Options:

[option]"An international standard is good for international trade and communication," explains bulk exporter @@randomname@@, "so we should be encouraging standardisation. We should confirm that the Maxcator Projection as the official choice of our nation, to bring us in line with the reasonable majority of nations, and to show the world that we're a nice, inoffensive nation that they can do business with."
[effect]nine out of ten foreigners can't find @@NAME@@ on a world map without help

[option]"We're a proud nation, at the centre of the world culturally and economically," observes @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Geographic Society president @@RANDOMNAME@@, "thus we should be at the centre of the map. Legislate against the Maxcator Projection in our schools and businesses, and have them use THIS map instead. I call it the @@LEADER@@ View. Our people will applaud your patriotism!"
[effect]many @@DEMONYM@@ believe that the world literally turns around @@NAME@@

[option]"Changing maps does indeed change perceptions, but these ideas are dangerously nationalistic." argues self-proclaimed world citizen @@randomname@@. "If you want people to see the world without political distortions, then you need accurate representation, and that means globes. Let people keep whatever flat maps they have, but send globes to every classroom in the nation, and teach children that how you view the world depends on where you're looking from."
[effect]patriotism is seen as a character flaw

[option]"The world? The world that matters ends at our national borders!" proclaims a cigar-smoking man in the shadows. "You should be encouraging people to stay at home and to work for our nation, not to worry about the world beyond. Limit geography lessons to our national borders and history lessons to our glorious past. In fact, stop our citizens leaving the country at all: if they never see the outside world, they won't worry why others have things that they don't."
[effect]people are told that foreigners are hungry ghosts who eat the flesh of fools who stray beyond the national borders

Name:

Project @@NAME@@

Description:

Historically the Maxcator Projection has been used internationally to depict the world on flat maps, which makes @@NAME@@ look a lot smaller than it actually is, as well as being tucked away on the edge of the map. After a recent TV drama made this a hot topic, disgruntled patriots are pressing you for a government stance on this.

Validity:

Any

Options:

[option]"An international standard is good for international trade and communication," says bulk exporter @@RANDOMNAME@@, "so we should be encouraging standardisation. We should make the Maxcator Projection official, to bring us in line with the majority of the World Assembly, and to show the world that we're a nice, inoffensive nation that they can do business with."
[effect]nine out of ten foreigners can't find @@NAME@@ on a world map without help
[stats]pacifism increases, political freedoms decrease, averageness increases, ideological radicality decreases, authoritarianism increases, economy increases a little,

[option]"We're a proud nation, at the centre of the world culturally and economically," observes @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Geographic Society president @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and we should be at the centre of the map. Ban the Maxcator projection in our schools and businesses, and force them to use THIS map instead. I call it the @@LEADER@@ View. Our people will applaud your patriotism!"
[effect]the @@TYPE@@ considers itself the center of the world
[stats]pacifism decreases, political freedoms decrease, charmlessness increases, cheerfulness increases, authoritarianism increases,

[option]"Changing maps does indeed change perceptions, but these ideas are dangerously nationalistic." argues self-proclaimed world citizen @@RANDOMNAME@@. "If you want people to see the world without political distortions, then you need accurate representation, and that means globes. Send globes to every classroom in the nation, and teach children that how you view the world depends on where you're looking from."
[effect]patriotism is seen as a character flaw
[stats]inclusiveness increases, education spending increases, intelligence increases, international aid increases,

[option]"The world? The world that matters ends at our national borders!" proclaims a cigar-smoking man in the shadows. "You should be encouraging people to stay at home and to work for our nation, not to worry about the world beyond. Limit geography lessons to our national borders and history lessons to our glorious past. In fact, stop our citizens leaving the country at all: if they never see the outside world, they won't worry why others have things that they don't."
[effect]the 30-foot-high wall around the nation is said to mark the edges of the universe
[stats]political apathy increases, compliance increases, authoritarianism increases a lot, civil rights decreases, economic freedoms decrease, political freedoms decrease, ideological radicality increases, pacifism increases, economy decreases, cheese exports wiped out, education spending decreases, transport spending decreases, international aid decreases a lot,

Name:

Project @@NAME@@

Description:

Historically the Maxcator Projection has been used internationally to depict the world on flat maps, which makes @@NAME@@ look a lot smaller than it actually is, as well as being tucked away on the edge of the map. After a recent TV drama made this a hot topic, disgruntled patriots are pressing you for a government stance on this.

Validity:

Any

Options:

[option]"An international standard is good for international trade and communication," says bulk exporter @@RANDOMNAME@@, "so we should be encouraging standardisation. We should make the Maxcator Projection official, to bring us in line with the majority of the World Assembly, and to show the world that we're a nice, inoffensive nation that they can do business with."
[effect]nine out of ten foreigners can't find @@NAME@@ on a world map without help
[stats]pacifism increases, political freedoms decrease, averageness increases, ideological radicality decreases, authoritarianism increases, economy increases a little,

[option]"We're a proud nation, at the centre of the world culturally and economically," observes @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Geographic Society president @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and we should be at the centre of the map. Ban the Maxcator projection in our schools and businesses, and force them to use THIS map instead. I call it the @@LEADER@@ View. Our people will applaud your patriotism!"
[effect]the global community views @@NAME@@ as being somewhat eccentric and insular
[stats]pacifism decreases, political freedoms decrease, charmlessness increases, cheerfulness increases, authoritarianism increases,

[option]"Changing maps does indeed change perceptions, but these ideas are dangerously nationalistic." argues self-proclaimed world citizen @@RANDOMNAME@@. "If you want people to see the world without political distortions, then you need accurate representation, and that means globes. Send globes to every classroom in the nation, and teach children that how you view the world depends on where you're looking from."
[effect]patriotism is seen as a character flaw
[stats]inclusiveness increases, education spending increases, intelligence increases, international aid increases,

[option]"The world? The world that matters ends at our national borders!" proclaims a cigar-smoking man in the shadows. "You should be encouraging people to stay at home and to work for our nation, not to worry about the world beyond. Limit geography lessons to our national borders and history lessons to our glorious past. In fact, stop our citizens leaving the country at all: if they never see the outside world, they won't worry why others have things that they don't."
[effect]there is talk of building a 30-foot high wall all around the nation, to keep citizens in and foreigners out
[stats]political apathy increases, compliance increases, authoritarianism increases a lot, civil rights decreases, economic freedoms decrease, political freedoms decrease, ideological radicality increases, pacifism increases, economy decreases, cheese exports wiped out, education spending decreases, transport spending decreases, international aid decreases a lot,

[Trotterdam]

I suppose a rant about my actual opinion on map projections would be missing the point here, even though I am sorely tempted.

I will settle for this:

[effect]there is talk of building a 30-foot high wall all around the nation, to keep citizens in and foreigners out

This effect line is way too wordy while not really saying much ("there is talk" does not mean "it's been done"). Try something like:
[effect]the 30-foot-high wall around the nation is said to mark the edges of the universe
or
[effect]cartographers who depict the outside world are being arrested for treason

(Note that "the world outside is only known of in folklore" would be good, but that's already used by #226.)

[effect]the global community views @@NAME@@ as being somewhat eccentric and insular

This one isn't as bad, but I'd still go for something more direct, such as
[effect]the @@TYPE@@ considers itself the center of the world

[Australian rePublic]

What kind of projection would make the nation in question larger?

[We Couldnt Agree On A Name]

I really like the concept, but don't much care for the options. They're a bit too wordy and a bit too extreme.

Yes I know blah blah blah parody, but at the end of the day I'd like to actually choose one of the options

What kind of projection would make the nation in question larger?

Violist Grinten?

[Trotterdam]

What kind of projection would make the nation in question larger?

The Mercator projection makes places close to the tropics look smaller and places close to the poles look larger.

The Maxcator is clearly a reference to this, but generified so that, since we don't know how it's defined, it technically doesn't make any implications about where your nation is.

Though, there's really little advantage to any maps that make the more extreme latitudes look smaller, unless you're using a stereographic projection centered on/near your nation, making it pretty prominent despite being small.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I suppose a rant about my actual opinion on map projections would be missing the point here, even though I am sorely tempted.

I will settle for this:

[effect]there is talk of building a 30-foot high wall all around the nation, to keep citizens in and foreigners out

This effect line is way too wordy while not really saying much ("there is talk" does not mean "it's been done"). Try something like:
[effect]the 30-foot-high wall around the nation is said to mark the edges of the universe
or
[effect]cartographers who depict the outside world are being arrested for treason

(Note that "the world outside is only known of in folklore" would be good, but that's already used by #226.)

[effect]the global community views @@NAME@@ as being somewhat eccentric and insular

This one isn't as bad, but I'd still go for something more direct, such as
[effect]the @@TYPE@@ considers itself the center of the world

Superb, I love both changes. Will put them both in.

Re: projections, I've deliberately kept to fictional and undefined projections to avoid arguments of "but my nation is on the pole" or "but my nation borders maxtopia".

You can always find some weird projection that will emphasise some things and de-emphasis others.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Nice issue, love the name!

I wonder if it would be a good idea to add in an option to implement the Gall-Peters projection to be more accurate, but then again the globe option trumps accuracy no matter how much cartography is done to the flat one.

For option 3, I wonder if maybe it could have been taken further and institute a ban on flat maps (since they obviously distort the world inaccurately and encourage nationalism). Then you could have a more silly effect line like "scout troops must navigate their local area using globes"

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Nice issue, love the name!

I wonder if it would be a good idea to add in an option to implement the Gall-Peters projection to be more accurate, but then again the globe option trumps accuracy no matter how much cartography is done to the flat one.

For option 3, I wonder if maybe it could have been taken further and institute a ban on flat maps (since they obviously distort the world inaccurately and encourage nationalism). Then you could have a more silly effect line like "scout troops must navigate their local area using globes"

Actually considered that, but options 2 and 4 are already authoritarian and talking about banning things, so I wanted option 3 in contrast to be a "positive" approach, albeit one that costs money.

[Trotterdam]

I suppose a rant about my actual opinion on map projections would be missing the point here, even though I am sorely tempted.

Okay maybe just a little bit.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to add in an option to implement the Gall-Peters projection to be more accurate,

The Gall-Peters projection is terrible. It's equal-area, but quite severely distorts the shapes of tropical nations (Africa is quite obviously stretched-out) - the same ones it's supposedly trying to help.

Even just among cylindrical equal-area projections, one with the standard parallel closer to the equator, such as the Behrmann projection, has better overall distortion.

Unless you really need your map to be cylindrical for some purpose, a pseudo-cylindrical equal-area map such as the Sinusoidal projection or Mollweide projection provides even better-looking maps while still depicting all areas as the correct size.

The (Lambert) azimuthal equal-area projection is also a good choice, especially for regions near the poles.

Considering the Gall-Peters projection as the only reasonable alternative to the Mercator projection is pure cartographical ignorance.

And, while I'm at it, the Mercator projection is not and has never been an international standard, nor does there, in fact, exist an international standard. It's a specialty projection designed specifically for navigation, for which its feature of preserving angles (rather than areas) is highly useful. It was never intended to be used as a general-purpose "getting a feel of what the world looks like" projection, and its relatively-common misuse in that role is a result of people blindly using the first projection whose name they can remember without doing any research, rather than the result of any kind of deliberate standardization effort. Actual competent Atlas-makers know a wide variety of projections and know to switch between them as appropiate for the current map, rather than believing a single projection is ideal for everything.

Even the most simple and naive map projection there is, plate carree, is an objectively better projection than Mercator for any purpose other than the one Mercator was designed for. While it doesn't excel at any one feature except simplicity, it's a pretty decent compromise between area and shape preservation.

For that matter, with modern computer navigation, the Mercator projection is kind of obsolete even for its original purpose.

Okay that was more than a little bit.

but then again the globe option trumps accuracy no matter how much cartography is done to the flat one.

...And yeah, that's why I was trying not to bring it up.

Another thing:

[effect]nine out of ten foreigners can't find @@NAME@@ on a world map without help

Why would what projection your nation uses internally affect whether foreigners can find your nation? The option is explicitly framed as "following international standard", meaning that the international community would still be using it even if you don't.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

I suppose a rant about my actual opinion on map projections would be missing the point here, even though I am sorely tempted.

Okay maybe just a little bit.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to add in an option to implement the Gall-Peters projection to be more accurate,

The Gall-Peters projection is terrible. It's equal-area, but quite severely distorts the shapes of tropical nations (Africa is quite obviously stretched-out) - the same ones it's supposedly trying to help.

Even just among cylindrical equal-area projections, one with the standard parallel closer to the equator, such as the Behrmann projection, has better overall distortion.

Unless you really need your map to be cylindrical for some purpose, a pseudo-cylindrical equal-area map such as the Sinusoidal projection or Mollweide projection provides even better-looking maps while still depicting all areas as the correct size.

The (Lambert) azimuthal equal-area projection is also a good choice, especially for regions near the poles.

Considering the Gall-Peters projection as the only reasonable alternative to the Mercator projection is pure cartographical ignorance.

And, while I'm at it, the Mercator projection is not and has never been an international standard, nor does there, in fact, exist an international standard. It's a specialty projection designed specifically for navigation, for which its feature of preserving angles (rather than areas) is highly useful. It was never intended to be used as a general-purpose "getting a feel of what the world looks like" projection, and its relatively-common misuse in that role is a result of people blindly using the first projection whose name they can remember without doing any research, rather than the result of any kind of deliberate standardization effort. Actual competent Atlas-makers know a wide variety of projections and know to switch between them as appropiate for the current map, rather than believing a single projection is ideal for everything.

Even the most simple and naive map projection there is, plate carree, is an objectively better projection than Mercator for any purpose other than the one Mercator was designed for. While it doesn't excel at any one feature except simplicity, it's a pretty decent compromise between area and shape preservation.

For that matter, with modern computer navigation, the Mercator projection is kind of obsolete even for its original purpose.

Okay that was more than a little bit.

but then again the globe option trumps accuracy no matter how much cartography is done to the flat one.

...And yeah, that's why I was trying not to bring it up.

Another thing:

[effect]nine out of ten foreigners can't find @@NAME@@ on a world map without help

Why would what projection your nation uses internally affect whether foreigners can find your nation? The option is explicitly framed as "following international standard", meaning that the international community would still be using it even if you don't.

That's actually rather interesting. Looks like I've learned something new today about the different types of maps there are.

I had suggested Gall-Peter purely because that is the one they pin to the walls in some UK schools, like the one I used to go to (although plenty of Mercator maps were also to be found), but in future looks like I have plenty of other fine examples to show (I'm particularly partial to that Mollweide projection).

Note for future use- use the words "Gall-Peter" when trying to trigger Trotterdam

[Bears Armed]

Re: projections, I've deliberately kept to fictional and undefined projections to avoid arguments of "but my nation is on the pole" or "but my nation borders maxtopia".

You can always find some weird projection that will emphasise some things and de-emphasis others.

or "my nation is on a flat world"...
^_^