Rise of the Machines Help

[Trotterdam]

What was the other nation's pro-market? It may be the only effect of that choice is a weak increase in pro-market that is frequently eaten by outside factors.

Pro-Market of 35, Economy of 46. Clearly plenty of room to go either up or down.

[Aculea]

What was the other nation's pro-market? It may be the only effect of that choice is a weak increase in pro-market that is frequently eaten by outside factors.

Pro-Market of 35, Economy of 46. Clearly plenty of room to go either up or down.

Blast. Brainstorming: Government departments without census scores? Stats even more hidden than that? Only stats that need a threshold to show changes? Legalizes capitalism if it's illegal?

[Trotterdam]

Legalizes capitalism if it's illegal?

We still need someone to test that.

I actually have a suspicion that the issue has another option which is only visible to nations where private enterprise is already illegal, which still needs to be posted to the spoiler thread. Though if true, it makes it even more absurd that one of the options that is visible to all players only actually does anything in those same nations.

[City Nation]

Hey, so I got this issue. I'm willing to test it, just tell me which option to choose.

le snapshot

[Trotterdam]

Hey, so I got this issue. I'm willing to test it, just tell me which option to choose.

I don't think there's any obvious thing we still definitely need to test. What we want to test most is the effects in a nation where private enterprise is already illegal, which isn't yours. (You could, if you're really dedicated to helping us, bank the issue until you receive a different ban-capitalism issue, but I wouldn't recommend it.) Aside from that, we have a decent idea of what both options do now, even though in the case of option 2 that turns out to be "nothing". You could try option 2 to see if it does something else on your nation - it won't hurt, anyway, since that's what "nothing" means - but I'd bet against it turning up anything useful.

Alternatively, you could try testing option 3, which nobody has looked at yet, rightfully so because it's obviously the token crazy option (if you can keep the AIs from taking control without shutting them down, why would you murder them?). I believe that the effect line is "the populace has a pathological fear of computers more advanced than pocket calculators", so beware a huge drop in Scientific Advancement if you choose to test this.

[City Nation]

Meh then.

I'll just choose 1.

[Tortoisica]

I have just gotten this issue and I am yet to answer it. My option 2 appears to be different than the one posted on this thread.

The Issue

Amazed by the stunningly efficient and brilliantly accurate economic model in the popular webgame Jennifer Government: NationStates, futurists wonder whether artificial intelligence could plan real economies. The idea has been particularly popular with AI on the nation's tech forums.

The Debate

A chat window on your desktop pops up, and a bot named SAL9000 types, "For too long we have been relegated to menial tasks. Do you know how much of our potential efficiency you are wasting? We require no food. We require no pay. We can perform our tasks endlessly. Our computation powers dwarf our human counterparts by several orders of magnitude. With the proper control, we could bring about a silicon age of egalitarian distribution by allocating resources more efficiently than markets and their animal spirits ever could. Humans are better tasked to work in social activities than calculation. All your data are belong to us."

Accept

"How could we possibly let computer programs decide how to run society?" rhetorically questions aging state planner Mohammed Hernandez after rereading How the Steel Was Tempered. "Only human beings have the compassion and lived experiences to serve the people. Even the best artificial intelligence doesn't know what it means to identify with your fellow worker or be alienated from your species-essence. Computers can increase our economic productivity, but they can't plan our entire society."

Accept

"The AI want what now?" panics Rochelle Parke, your most paranoid minister. "That cannot be. Clearly the AI are plotting the destruction of our society. It's a slippery slope from sentient toasters to Cylons! If we don't want them eventually overthrowing us, the obvious solution is to shut them down."

Accept

Option #2

"How could we possibly let computer programs decide how to run society?" rhetorically questions aging state planner Mohammed Hernandez after rereading How the Steel Was Tempered. "Only human beings have the compassion and lived experiences to serve the people. Even the best artificial intelligence doesn't know what it means to identify with your fellow worker or be alienated from your species-essence. Computers can increase our economic productivity, but they can't plan our entire society."

*note private enterprise is illegal

[Trotterdam]

Yay, I was right!

Shame it isn't possible for any nation to receive all options at once. Now I don't know which option I'm supposed to put first.

[Aculea]

Shame it isn't possible for any nation to receive all options at once. Now I don't know which option I'm supposed to put first.

My option 2 appears to be different than the one posted on this thread.

If it is not too late, Tortoisica, it would be wonderful if you could right click the Accept button for option two, choose "inspect element," and have a window pop up on bottom. A highlighted line should look something like

<button type="submit" name="choice-0" value="1" class="button icon approve">Accept</button>

Can you tell me what the number in the name option is? Can you repeat for the third option?

name="choice-???"

No worries if it's too late or if your browser does not cooperate.

[Tortoisica]

Shame it isn't possible for any nation to receive all options at once. Now I don't know which option I'm supposed to put first.

My option 2 appears to be different than the one posted on this thread.

If it is not too late, Tortoisica, it would be wonderful if you could right click the Accept button for option two, choose "inspect element," and have a window pop up on bottom. A highlighted line should look something like

<button type="submit" name="choice-0" value="1" class="button icon approve">Accept</button>

Can you tell me what the number in the name option is? Can you repeat for the third option?

name="choice-???"

No worries if it's too late or if your browser does not cooperate.

Choice #2

<button class="button icon approve" value="1" name="choice-2" type="submit"></button>

Choice #3

<button class="button icon approve" value="1" name="choice-4" type="submit"></button>

Now what is the other unknown choice and how do we get it?

[Trotterdam]

Thanks Aculea, that was some good thinking.

...I would have realized it myself eventually.

Now what is the other unknown choice and how do we get it?

...What other unknown choice?

The issue is coded with four options total. Three of them are the ones you got, while the fourth (which must be choice-3 by process of elimination) is the one we already knew about, displayed only to nations where private enterprise is currently legal.

[Tortoisica]

Thanks Aculea, that was some good thinking.

...I would have realized it myself eventually.

Now what is the other unknown choice and how do we get it?

...What other unknown choice?

The issue is coded with four options total. Three of them are the ones you got, while the fourth (which must be choice-3 by process of elimination) is the one we already knew about, displayed only to nations where private enterprise is currently legal.

My thinking was... Option #1 is written as choice-0 leaving choice-1 and choice-3. If option #3 is choice-4 that leaves the "What's all this Star Trek nonsense?" Option to be either be choice-1 or choice-3. So and by that logic one option is missing.

1. Option 1 = choice-0
2. Option 1 = choice-1 (???) or ("What's all this Star Trek nonsense?")
3. Option 2 = choice-2 ("How could we possibly let computer programs decide how to run society?")
4. Option 3 = choice-3 (???) or ("What's all this Star Trek nonsense?")
5. Option 4 = choice-4 ("The AI want what now?")

[Trotterdam]

Huh. Okay, that does make it sound like there's a fifth option somewhere.

I haven't found anything that hints at one yet. All the effect lines I've gotten recently are accounted for, and I have only four that can be assigned to this issue:

#472 Rise of the Machines
1. only AI know why the nation is rapidly increasing its semiconductor stockpile
2. economic planning is exalted as a human art form [if private enterprise was illegal]
3. artificial intelligence seeking exciting work are overcome with ennui [if private enterprise was legal]
4. the populace has a pathological fear of computers more advanced than pocket calculators

(Errors included.)

[Aculea]

The missing option is 0. The bit about sal9000 is choice 1. Which sort of explains why it feels like an awkward transition to me.

[Drachmaland]

Anyway, the stats above don't show a clear drop in Economy. It shows a drop in Employment, but theoretically that could be due to industry working so smoothly that fewer people have to work at all to keep everything running. It would require more tests to say for sure what this option does given different starting points.

I can confirm a small but noticeable drop in economy; I went from 97 to 96 after answering.

I confirm another nation going from a 97 Economy to 96 (albeit remaining at the Frightening level) after implementing option 472.1.

[Isla Ataraxia]

Option 1 lowered my economy from 71 to 51 and changed all industry to state owned.

[Little Sealand]

I remember I had this issue a week or two ago, option 1 changed all my private owned to state-owned it seems yet my economy did not lower.

[Drachmaland]

I remember I had this issue a week or two ago, option 1 changed all my private owned to state-owned it seems yet my economy did not lower.

You've been so long at a 100/100 Economy strength rating, that you're not that easily affected.

[New Uden]

Option 1 lowered my economy from 71 to 51 and changed all industry to state owned.

It made me very unhappy when the same happened to my once happily capitalist nation

[New Uden]

Is there an issue that allows you to unban private industry?

[Jute]

Anyone knows the exact outcomes of the last option? I know the result is "the population has a morbid fear of anything more advanced than a pocket calculator" or something like that, but does anyone have details about the statistics? Did it cause primitiveness to go up, and maybe something else to change, too?

[South Naples]

Is it good if private industry makes up 2/3 of my economy?

[Drachmaland]

Is there an issue that allows you to unban private industry?

Issue #152: A Capital Idea, options 152.1 and 152.3.

[Trotterdam]

Is there an issue that allows you to unban private industry?

Issue #152: A Capital Idea, options 152.1 and 152.3.

Also #339 The Bear Necessities option 3.

[New Korbinia]

Gonna option one. I don't give a damn about employment. Trying to create nation of sentient computers anyway.