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what is wrong with issus 221

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:55 am
by Fauzjhia
I just the pick the 3rd choice of issus 221, : Outdated Tax Code Crushing @@NAME@@?

Now, my Economy is gone,
Seriously, what is wrong with that issus, it seem to mess yup all nations who answer it.

Economy just went down from 90 to 0, and i did everything I could to build it,

what can I pick without screwing up my nation on this damned issus. should I dismiss it ?

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:27 am
by Undivulged Principles
I just the pick the 3rd choice of issus 221, : Outdated Tax Code Crushing @@NAME@@?

Economy just went down from 90 to 0, and i did everything I could to build it


You sort of answered your own question. Using the government to build the economy means corporate welfare. Eliminating that will undermine the foundation of your economy.

Just build it back up, meaning the economy. Shouldn't be too hard especially now that you learned a valuable lesson.

If you wanted to keep the status quo of your nation for that issue then your best bet, as in most cases if that is your short term goal, is to dismiss it.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:18 am
by Marnady
Undivulged Principles wrote:I just the pick the 3rd choice of issus 221, : Outdated Tax Code Crushing @@NAME@@?

Economy just went down from 90 to 0, and i did everything I could to build it


You sort of answered your own question. Using the government to build the economy means corporate welfare. Eliminating that will undermine the foundation of your economy.

Just build it back up, meaning the economy. Shouldn't be too hard especially now that you learned a valuable lesson.

If you wanted to keep the status quo of your nation for that issue then your best bet, as in most cases if that is your short term goal, is to dismiss it.


SO, If I pcik the same choice, on that issus, I will be able to finally become the psychotic dictatorship I want to be

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:37 pm
by Kesshite
I have to wonder if that's working as intended.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:29 am
by Charlotte Ryberg
I may not be able to fix any country's economy at gameplay level, but I have put a advance warning in my wiki since yesterday (see https://nsindex.net/wiki/Issues or https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._221), since more people are looking to my wiki for solved issues (according to Google Webmaster Tools).

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:54 pm
by Jute
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:I may not be able to fix any country's economy at gameplay level, but I have put a advance warning in my wiki since yesterday (see https://nsindex.net/wiki/Issues or https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._221), since more people are looking to my wiki for solved issues (according to Google Webmaster Tools).

You should add that this will not be the case for countries who did not rely on business subsidies to create a strong economy, such as free market capitalist nations.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:13 pm
by Evilcia
Jute wrote:
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:I may not be able to fix any country's economy at gameplay level, but I have put a advance warning in my wiki since yesterday (see https://nsindex.net/wiki/Issues or https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._221), since more people are looking to my wiki for solved issues (according to Google Webmaster Tools).

You should add that this will not be the case for countries who did not rely on business subsidies to create a strong economy, such as free market capitalist nations.


Well, now I know what will happen If I accept any of those issus, it will destroy my nation as I build it.

this issues need to be fixed a bit.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:44 pm
by Phydios
Evilcia wrote:
Jute wrote:You should add that this will not be the case for countries who did not rely on business subsidies to create a strong economy, such as free market capitalist nations.


Well, now I know what will happen If I accept any of those issus, it will destroy my nation as I build it.

this issues need to be fixed a bit.

No, they don't. In real life, not every decision made is a good one. Some are very bad. NS doesn't try to be extremely accurate, but it does try to be somewhat realistic. Therefore, you can make terrible decisions. If your economy is only booming because the businesses are running off of government money (even if they're privately owned and operated), then ending those subsidies will yank the bottom out of it. You need to build the economy in a different way if you want to cut government spending without trashing it.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:43 am
by Undivulged Principles
Or you can cut government spending by not cutting business subsidies. However, that will certainly affect other national priorities, like welfare, healthcare, education or the environment.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:34 am
by Jute
Undivulged Principles wrote:Or you can cut government spending by not cutting business subsidies. However, that will certainly affect other national priorities, like welfare, healthcare, education or the environment.

There are other things you could cut, or you could just cut across the board and therefore not hopefully affecting nothing too much

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:43 pm
by Marnady
who said I want to cut something, what about, digital taxe code or something.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:46 am
by GabrielB09
Phydios wrote:
Evilcia wrote:
Well, now I know what will happen If I accept any of those issus, it will destroy my nation as I build it.

this issues need to be fixed a bit.

No, they don't. In real life, not every decision made is a good one. Some are very bad. NS doesn't try to be extremely accurate, but it does try to be somewhat realistic. Therefore, you can make terrible decisions. If your economy is only booming because the businesses are running off of government money (even if they're privately owned and operated), then ending those subsidies will yank the bottom out of it. You need to build the economy in a different way if you want to cut government spending without trashing it.


But also in real life you get monumental laws that can be passed and have extremely positive impact, there are no issue to my knowledge in nation states that result in climb of 100 points yet there is one which results in a drop of such, its not balanced or realistic. Furthermore if such decisions were made in real life that cause a crisis laws can be implemented following that decision to repair the issue, in NationStates you have to sit around for months getting 2 random issues at a time hoping that you get enough to fix the problem you created whereas in the real world you can address serious issues immediately.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:51 am
by Golgothastan
So write one? There have been "economic miracles", and one could make for an entertaining issue, potentially.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:50 pm
by Communist Victoria
Fauzjhia wrote:I just the pick the 3rd choice of issus 221, : Outdated Tax Code Crushing @@NAME@@?

Now, my Economy is gone,
Seriously, what is wrong with that issus, it seem to mess yup all nations who answer it.

Economy just went down from 90 to 0, and i did everything I could to build it,

what can I pick without screwing up my nation on this damned issus. should I dismiss it ?


Yeah, my economy imploded too, surely a left leaning state will have less corporate welfare, but it still imploded

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:41 am
by Undivulged Principles
GabrielB09 wrote:
Phydios wrote:No, they don't. In real life, not every decision made is a good one. Some are very bad. NS doesn't try to be extremely accurate, but it does try to be somewhat realistic. Therefore, you can make terrible decisions. If your economy is only booming because the businesses are running off of government money (even if they're privately owned and operated), then ending those subsidies will yank the bottom out of it. You need to build the economy in a different way if you want to cut government spending without trashing it.


But also in real life you get monumental laws that can be passed and have extremely positive impact, there are no issue to my knowledge in nation states that result in climb of 100 points yet there is one which results in a drop of such, its not balanced or realistic. Furthermore if such decisions were made in real life that cause a crisis laws can be implemented following that decision to repair the issue, in NationStates you have to sit around for months getting 2 random issues at a time hoping that you get enough to fix the problem you created whereas in the real world you can address serious issues immediately.


Where are these instant fixes in the real world?

You can interpret the delay between receiving an issue that would directly influence a recent consequence of a previous issue answer to preliminary debate about the new issue in question. You might receive an issue with several set in stone choices, it may have taken months of debate in order to reach that point (ie. the delay). That's quite realistic.

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 7:46 pm
by Excidium Planetis
GabrielB09 wrote:
Phydios wrote:No, they don't. In real life, not every decision made is a good one. Some are very bad. NS doesn't try to be extremely accurate, but it does try to be somewhat realistic. Therefore, you can make terrible decisions. If your economy is only booming because the businesses are running off of government money (even if they're privately owned and operated), then ending those subsidies will yank the bottom out of it. You need to build the economy in a different way if you want to cut government spending without trashing it.


But also in real life you get monumental laws that can be passed and have extremely positive impact, there are no issue to my knowledge in nation states that result in climb of 100 points yet there is one which results in a drop of such, its not balanced or realistic. Furthermore if such decisions were made in real life that cause a crisis laws can be implemented following that decision to repair the issue, in NationStates you have to sit around for months getting 2 random issues at a time hoping that you get enough to fix the problem you created whereas in the real world you can address serious issues immediately.


To my knowledge, no single government law has ever turned a nonexistent economy into a world leader. The other way around is certainly possible, however.

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:44 pm
by Shaktirajya
My economy went from 80 to 0. This issue is completely and entirely ludicrous. No other issue so radically #@$%^ up everything. Apparently more than one choice in the issue has this effect as well. I say scrap this, or alter it.

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:15 pm
by Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf
I hate to be the one to say this, but issue 221 has to be the absolute stupidest issue I've seen. I mean seriously. No matter what option you take, your economy practically goes to 0 unless you're already there. I always, except once I think, dismiss this issue when I get it for its unrealistic results. It should be more realistic in economic factor.

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:17 pm
by Kaboomlandia
Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf wrote:I hate to be the one to say this, but issue 221 has to be the absolute stupidest issue I've seen. I mean seriously. No matter what option you take, your economy practically goes to 0 unless you're already there. I always, except once I think, dismiss this issue when I get it for its unrealistic results. It should be more realistic in economic factor.

Are the editors actually allowed to toss already-accepted issues out the window?


Blame Padosistan for forcing this issue on the world >:(

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:29 am
by Golgothastan
Kaboomlandia wrote:
Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf wrote:I hate to be the one to say this, but issue 221 has to be the absolute stupidest issue I've seen. I mean seriously. No matter what option you take, your economy practically goes to 0 unless you're already there. I always, except once I think, dismiss this issue when I get it for its unrealistic results. It should be more realistic in economic factor.

Are the editors actually allowed to toss already-accepted issues out the window?

Issues are subject to ongoing review, and we have extra tools to further help us judge whether issues are working as intended. I don't know whether there are immediate plans to review issue #221, but not liking its effects - which it telegraphs quite reasonably - is not really a strong argument for doing so.

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:44 am
by Dremovia
I dismiss a lot because they are "BIAS!" no matter what you do :lol: the worst thing to do is to make sense of it ;)

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:56 am
by Jute
Golgothastan wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:Are the editors actually allowed to toss already-accepted issues out the window?

Issues are subject to ongoing review, and we have extra tools to further help us judge whether issues are working as intended. I don't know whether there are immediate plans to review issue #221, but not liking its effects - which it telegraphs quite reasonably - is not really a strong argument for doing so.

If you choose the option to keep the business subsidies, wouldn't the economy not crash to 0?

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:35 am
by Trotterdam
Jute wrote:
Golgothastan wrote:If you choose the option to keep the business subsidies, wouldn't the economy not crash to 0?
Probably not, though I guess it'd wreak havoc on your crime rates.

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:39 am
by Jute
Trotterdam wrote:
Jute wrote:
Probably not, though I guess it'd wreak havoc on your crime rates.

True, I saw that when someone chose the first option and when I accidentally scrapped all education funding instead of revitalizing public education... stupid missed click.

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:21 am
by Paragus
Without reading it entirely, chose the option to abolish the tax code entirely... and it didn't touch my economy at all (But since it's built almost entirely on Harry Potter books, that's not a surprise).

It did, however, destroy my country's government and public infrastructure overnight. Gone was my World Class Healthcare and Education system, and now my once totally crime-free nation is now ranked in the top 1% in the world for youth 'rebelliousness' and top 5% in the world for lowest overall tax burden, so I got that going for me at least...

I've played enough SimCity to know that messing with taxes is bad. Should have remembered that.