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Conservative Alliances
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Posts: 1323
Founded: Jul 27, 2009
Ex-Nation

Help with an issue

Postby Conservative Alliances » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm

Robots Leaving Workers Jobless

The Issue
Amidst a growing level of unemployment, thousands of workers have been fired and then replaced by automatic systems. They have petitioned you to intervene.

The Debate
"It's just sickening! Do you know how long it took most of us to get a decent, 'stable' job?" shouts Larry Frederickson, president of the Conservative Alliances Labour Alliance, before dramatically sweeping your personal belongings off your desk. "And now we're losing our livelihoods to robots so that while our families starve, the corporations get even richer! Don't let the capitalist pigs blind you! This practice must be banned!"

"Hey, I've got a job to keep up too, you know," says Gregory Falopian, a factory manager. "If I don't think of new ways of keeping costs down, the investors will go elsewhere. It's my neck on the line as much as anyone else's, even if I do have much more money. Besides, it's business, and no-one ought to be able to say who - or what - I can hire."

"This could be resolved if instead of replacing workers with machines, we added machines to workers!" enthuses Max Washington, CEO of Mondas Ltd. "By replacing the body parts with stronger, better, metal prostheses, we can make the best industrial workers - literally - in the world! Imagine a shelver who can shift whole crates with just one arm! One finger! So let's hear no more of this deplorable 'replacing workers with machines' idea and look to the future!"

"You can't allow that!" gasps Jazz Licorish, a manual labourer. "If that happens, only the people with cyber limbs will get jobs! And the corporations will contract you into having the surgery if you want to have one! No thank you! We should go back to the grass roots of industry when all the machines weren't computerised and workers were the salt of the earth! Then maybe we'd see a bit more appreciation! And cash!"

I am definitely picking either 2 or 3, but I do not know which. Will 3 hurt civil rights? I think it would, because they have to have cybernetics to work. But on the other hand, they keep their jobs and they do not necessarily have to work in manufacturing. What should I do?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
I am the Ghost of Sparta
Member of the Ebul NSG Right-Wing Establishment
Economic Left/Right: 9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.92
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Essentially a mix of the American Dream and 1950s culture with futuristic technology.
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Liuzzo wrote:Conversely Conservative Alliances, Vetalia, and others make terrific arguments that people may not agree with but you can discuss.
Glorious Homeland wrote:Although some individuals provided counter-points which tended to put to bed a few of my previous statements (conservative alliances, zoingo)

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Bears Armed
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Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:33 am

I usually go for '2'.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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Cynthia McKinney
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Founded: Dec 11, 2008
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replacing workers with machines

Postby Cynthia McKinney » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:27 am

I've never gotten that issue but would choose option 1 as its the only ethical and moral option which wouldn't hurt the economy but would protect the working class from the evil bourgeoisie.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:23 am

Cynthia McKinney wrote:I've never gotten that issue but would choose option 1 as its the only ethical and moral option which wouldn't hurt the economy but would protect the working class from the evil bourgeoisie.

OOC: I've never chosen option #1 for any of my nations, but I'd be prepared to bet that choosing it does (at least from an OOC viewpoint) hurt your nation's economy...
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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Conservative Alliances
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Posts: 1323
Founded: Jul 27, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Alliances » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:19 am

I would venture to say it definitely hurts your economy. Dictating to companies is generally a bad route to take if you want a good economy.
Last edited by Conservative Alliances on Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
I am the Ghost of Sparta
Member of the Ebul NSG Right-Wing Establishment
Economic Left/Right: 9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.92
Spectrum
Foriegn Affairs
Cultural
Political Spectrum Quiz
Essentially a mix of the American Dream and 1950s culture with futuristic technology.
Rhodmhire wrote:I love you.
Liuzzo wrote:Conversely Conservative Alliances, Vetalia, and others make terrific arguments that people may not agree with but you can discuss.
Glorious Homeland wrote:Although some individuals provided counter-points which tended to put to bed a few of my previous statements (conservative alliances, zoingo)

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Cynthia McKinney
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 184
Founded: Dec 11, 2008
Ex-Nation

economy

Postby Cynthia McKinney » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:51 am

Actually option 4 is the one thats real bad for the economy since it appears to do away with using computers.

Option 1 definitely lowers economic or business freedom but in theory it should improve economic strength because increasing unemployment weakens the economy and makes the working class too poor to buy the corporations products which means lower profits for business.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:00 am

Cynthia McKinney wrote:Actually option 4 is the one thats real bad for the economy since it appears to do away with using computers.

Option 1 definitely lowers economic or business freedom but in theory it should improve economic strength because increasing unemployment weakens the economy and makes the working class too poor to buy the corporations products which means lower profits for business.
In 'socialist' theory, maybe... but Max didn't follow socialist theory when designing NS...
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
Conservative Alliances
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1323
Founded: Jul 27, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Alliances » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:19 pm

I am agreed that the fourth option is worse, but think of it this way. Machines are more efficient than humans, if a company is no longer efficient enough to compete, it will fail. Then no one has a job or a manufacturing industry.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
I am the Ghost of Sparta
Member of the Ebul NSG Right-Wing Establishment
Economic Left/Right: 9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.92
Spectrum
Foriegn Affairs
Cultural
Political Spectrum Quiz
Essentially a mix of the American Dream and 1950s culture with futuristic technology.
Rhodmhire wrote:I love you.
Liuzzo wrote:Conversely Conservative Alliances, Vetalia, and others make terrific arguments that people may not agree with but you can discuss.
Glorious Homeland wrote:Although some individuals provided counter-points which tended to put to bed a few of my previous statements (conservative alliances, zoingo)

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The Tommaso Empire
Envoy
 
Posts: 208
Founded: Aug 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Tommaso Empire » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:47 pm

I dont think # 3 would really effect civil rights. i think you should make a issue saying that the economey will grow. then more people would defintly pick that one

Great issue by the way!
:)

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Cynthia McKinney
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 184
Founded: Dec 11, 2008
Ex-Nation

theory

Postby Cynthia McKinney » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:25 am

My theory had nothing to do with socialism. Its just common sense.

If the company wants to replace workers with machines, then they should be forced to give away everything produced for free.

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Flibbleites
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 6569
Founded: Jan 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Flibbleites » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:46 am

Cynthia McKinney wrote:My theory had nothing to do with socialism. Its just common sense.

If the company wants to replace workers with machines, then they should be forced to give away everything produced for free.

Really, and you don't think that fully automated facilities don't have expenses such as raw materials, power, maintenance costs, etc.?


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