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[Draft] Unholy Wars

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The Free Joy State
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[Draft] Unholy Wars

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:42 am

The title feels familiar, but I'm not sure why.

Anyway, this idea is somewhat niche, but somehow irresistible -- an issue for nations with an official (non-Atheist religion) that socially lean toward Atheism. We do have some nations that meet that criteria and I thought it would be fun.

Also, game mechanics wise, I thought it might be useful to have an issue take players from social atheism to theism.

Later in my offline drafting, I came up with an idea to expand the issue and have doppelganger options for nations that are somewhat positive towards religion but not highly religious.

This feels long, but everyone will only get four options.

Inspired by a real banner ad, years ago – though this wasn't sponsored by government officials, but it was protested. I don't think we have an issue that asks about the religion of Ministers... I don't think.

I have no effect line for 1A/1B.

Draft Four
[Title] Unholy Wars

[validity] Nations that range between antipathy to being somewhat positive towards religion but have neither the Atheism nor Theocracy policies; also have an official religion that is not Atheism

[description] @@RANDOMNAME@@, your newly appointed Minister of Religious Affairs -- formerly the media representative for the All-Antifaith Alliance of Atheists, Anti-theists and Atheistic Agnostics -- caused outrage among the some religious believers when @@HIS@@ first act while in office was to launch the No 'Creator' In Create campaign to destroy a statue heavily containing @@FAITH@@ derived emblems.

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "What happened to being proud of our @@FAITH@@ heritage? Our history is to be celebrated, not crushed to crumbs by ignorant irreligious ignorami. We need a new Minister -- I can suggest scads of enthusiastic candidates, fresh out of theological schoo... a top, entirely secular university -- who will promote our morals and oldest stories in schools, weaving the knowledge of our national faith's august history through the very fabric of society."
[effect] tea-towel-wearing pre-schoolers in the seasonal play proudly re-enact child-sacrifices with plastic dolls

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "The Creator remains steady and true, but these vermin have hardened their hearts! Shore our true faith against the secular onslaught, reasserting it with regular national festivals of prayer and sacrifice: gather all people for mandatory worship in shimmering new centres where piety can be fully observed. All atheists, agnostics, liberal believers and believers of false faiths will be made to dedicate themselves to the true faith, and forgiven for erring. Persistent aberrant beliefs, of course, warrant assiduous correction: loss of the tongue that will not praise for the first offence, perhaps."
[effect] atheists describe the state of the nation best when they say nothing at all
[validity] nation with low religiousness or governmental antipathy

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "We clearly don't care what some obnoxious ranting guy thinks. Religion is dying on its feet. Let's put it out of its misery and officially take a bulldozer to relics like religious education, iconography and religious buildings... not that one? Maybe next time? Well, still bring in cool, irreligious symbols and teach freethinking. And, to smooth the transition, you should only hire atheists for public servant jobs and positions of authority. Hey, it's not like I don't want the Sam-I-Amens to work: I've got a toilet they can clean!"
[effect] the plus-sign has been removed from mathematics textbooks
[validity] nations that are officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Face it: we're obviously getting as sick of religion as we are of ranting nutters who think their obnoxious opinion matters. We should stop calling ourselves a 'nation of @@FAITH@@' and letting these preachy people push their icons on other people. Now that religion's losing it's foothold we should replace all public religion-based iconography with something cool, new and entirely secular."
[effect] small-town residents are cut-up about Town Hall cherubim being replaced with copies of Wurst's 'Dissected Cow in Chloroform'
[validity] nations that are officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who are these lunatics who can't use indoor-voices?" screams the never-angry Minister of Inner Calm and Chamomile Tea. "@@LEADER@@, giving @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@ that job was really stupid. Just look at this sh...ugar-storm! Look -- believe in it or not -- @@FAITH@@ is part of our cultural history. History matters! You should acknowledge the existence of our national faith by funding a serious television series about the culture inspired by @@FAITH@@. Then, announce that the government respects citizens' complete religious freedom. Then, drink your damn tea. It's getting cold." Muttering what you gather to be unflattering things in Galliennais, she storms out.
[effect] pious teachers claim their charges' napping during religious arts programmes is spiritual meditation

[Title] Unholy Wars

[validity] Nations that range between antipathy to being somewhat positive towards religion but have neither the Atheism nor Theocracy policies; also have an official religion that is not Atheism

[description] @@RANDOMNAME@@, your newly appointed Minister of Religious Affairs -- formerly the media representative for the All-Antifaith Alliance of Atheists, Anti-theists and Atheistic Agnostics -- caused outrage among the some religious believers when @@HIS@@ first act while in office was to "promote a message of upbeat rationalism" by sponsoring a banner ad on buses reading: Your Creator Probably Doesn't Exist. So Stop Praying and Start Playing.

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "Not only can their claims not be proven, they invite the verbal abuse of believers! This shows @@NAME@@ is losing touch with our proud @@FAITH@@ heritage, and needs to reclaim it. We need a Minister who will actively promote the stories and morals our national faith teaches us -- making it a compulsory school subject -- for who can understand Wakesword's sonnets without @@FAITH@@'s loving morals as a grounding?"
[effect] TBD

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "@@FAITH@@ and the Creator remain steady and true, but these vermin have hardened their hearts! To reclaim our national faith, you must dedicate substantial funds to promoting @@FAITH@@'s glory, training zealous religious instructors and erecting shining holy sites. Simply seize all monies from atheists, agnostics, liberal believers, and followers of other faiths. The blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners can toil as it pleases the state for free, praying on the enduring mercy of our Creator. Think of the good use we'll put the sinners to... And the souls saved, of course."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with low religiousness or governmental antipathy

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "@@FAITH@@ and the Creator remain steady and true, but these vermin have hardened their hearts! To fortify our national faith, you must dedicate substantial funds to promoting @@FAITH@@'s glory, training zealous religious instructors and erecting shining holy sites. Simply seize all monies from atheists, agnostics, liberal believers, and followers of other faiths. The blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners can toil as it pleases the state for free, praying on the enduring mercy of our Creator. Think of the good use we'll put the sinners to... And the souls saved, of course."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with some governmental religiousness

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Religion is over! We clearly don't care what some obnoxious ranting guy thinks. Religion's an evolutionary hangover, and @@FAITH@@ is just another bad liqueur. Rather than try to call ourselves a 'nation of @@FAITH@@', let's offically take a bulldozer to relics like religious education, iconography and religious buildings. We'll bring in cool, irreligious symbols and teach freethinking. And, to smooth the transition, you should only hire atheists for public servant jobs and positions of authority. Trust me, normal people will see that the most logical people are getting good jobs. Hey, The Sam-I-Amens can still mop up puke and things!"
[effect] the plus-sign has been removed from mathematics textbooks
[validity] nations that are officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Face it: we're obviously getting as sick of religion as we are of ranting nutters who think their obnoxious opinion matters. Religion's an evolutionary hangover, and @@FAITH@@ is just another bad liqueur. Let's accept religion is losing its foothold. The government should stop calling itself a 'nation of @@FAITH@@' to please the remaining religious people -- who are probably only religious out of duty to their ancestors -- and replace all public religion-based iconography with something cool, new and entirely secular."
[effect] small-town residents are cut-up about Town Hall cherubim being replaced with copies of Wurst's 'Dissected Cow in Chloroform'
[validity] nations that are officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who are these lunatics who can't use indoor-voices?" screams the never-angry Minister of Inner Calm and Chamomile Tea. "@@LEADER@@, giving @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@ that job was really stupid... what were you even thinking? Look -- believe in it or not -- @@FAITH@@ is part of our cultural history and has inspired wonderful works. History matters! To calm this sh... ugar-storm, you should acknowledge our national faith with a secular festival of works inspired by it while announcing that the government upholds citizens' complete religious freedom. Then make Ministers' continued employment conditional on not putting out incendiary messages while holding office. Then, drink your damn tea. It's getting cold." Muttering what you gather to be unflattering things in Galliennais, she storms out.
[effect] essential equipment for a @@DEMONYM@@ Minister is said to include a briefcase, a ballpoint pen and a ball-gag

[Title] Unholy Wars

[validity] Nations that range between antipathy to being somewhat positive towards religion but have neither the the Atheism nor Theocracy policies; also have an official religion that is not Atheism

[description] @@RANDOMNAME@@, your newly appointed Minister of Religious Affairs -- formerly the media representative for the All-Antifaith Alliance of Atheists, Anti-theists and Atheistic Agnostics -- caused outrage among the some religious believers when @@HIS@@ first act while in office was to "promote a message of upbeat rationalism" by sponsoring a banner ad on buses reading: Your Creator Probably Doesn't Exist. So Stop Praying and Start Playing.

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "Not only can their claims not be proven, they invite the verbal abuse of believers! This shows @@NAME@@ lost touch with our spiritual heritage -- @@FAITH@@ is no longer central in many lives -- and needs to put our collective soul back on the agenda. @@HE_1@@ needs to apologise to believers then step aside for someone who can project a more positive and respectful image of my faith... faith. Another Ministry must want @@HIM_1@@."
[effect] TBD
[validity] nations officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "Not only can their claims not be proven, they invite the abuse of believers! Sadly, this shows that our @@FAITH@@ heritage is no longer a deciding factor in many lives; @@NAME@@ needs to put our collective soul to the fore of the agenda. @@HE_1@@ needs to apologise to believers then step aside for someone who can project a more positive and respectful image of my faith... faith. Another Ministry must want @@HIM_1@@."
[effect] TBD
[validity] nations officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "@@FAITH@@ and the Creator are the same as ever, but these vermin have hardened their hearts, that the may falsely claim our glorious Creator does not exist! That's why all atheists, agnostics, liberal believers, and followers of other faiths must be routed from all employment; and all funds withheld from persons not temperate and godly -- like me. We'll use the sinners' money to build @@FAITH@@-based infrastructure... And save their souls, of course. Blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners will soon turn their minds to the enduring mercy of our Creator when faced with starvation."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with low religiousness or governmental antipathy

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "@@FAITH@@ and the Creator are the same as ever, but these vermin have hardened their hearts, that the may falsely claim our glorious Creator does not exist! That's why atheists, agnostics, liberal believers and followers of other faiths must be denied all power and employment. Withhold all funds from persons not temperate and godly -- like me. We'll use the sinners' money to build @@FAITH@@-based infrastructure... And save their souls, of course. Blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners will soon turn their minds to the enduring mercy of our Creator when faced with starvation."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with some governmental religiousness

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Religion is over! We clearly don't care what some obnoxious ranting guy thinks. Religion's an evolutionary hangover, and @@FAITH@@ is just another bad liqueur. It's time we stop calling ourselves a 'nation of @@FAITH@@' when we've clearly stopped caring about it. It'll be fine, just prevent sabotage by only hiring atheists for any public servant job or position of authority. Trust me, normal people will be fine, because they'll see that the most logical people are getting good jobs. Hey, I'm reasonable! The Sam-I-Amens can still have entry-level jobs, mopping up puke and things."
[effect] canteen workers with three degrees are reminded to "cover hands, hair and iconography to prevent contagion"
[validity] nations that are officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Face it: we're obviously sick of religion and ranting nutters who think their obnoxious opinion matters. Religion's an evolutionary hangover, and @@FAITH@@ is just another bad liqueur. We call ourselves a 'nation of @@FAITH@@' out of benighted duty to our ancestors. Let's stop! Accept we don't care. And, ahem, it may make the transition smoother if you make atheism a desirable trait for any newly hired public sector employee; surely sensible people who see the grim reality of the world as it is -- rather than wishing for something 'better' -- are just the people we want in the public sector."
[effect] blue-sky thinking has given way to grey-day realism
[validity] nations that are officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who are these lunatics who can't use indoor-voices?" screams the never-angry Minister of Inner Calm and Chamomile Tea. "@@LEADER@@, giving @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@ that job was really stupid... what were you even thinking? And, you think these people will calm this sh... ugar-storm? My Violet! Look -- believe in it or not -- as part of our cultural history, @@FAITH@@ has inspired wonderful works. History matters! Just announce that your nominally @@FAITH@@ adhering government upholds citizens' complete religious freedom.Then make Ministers' continued employment conditional on not putting out incendiary messages while holding office. Then, drink your damn tea. It's getting cold." Muttering what you gather to be unflattering things in Galliennais, she storms out.
[effect] essential equipment for a @@DEMONYM@@ Minister is said to include a briefcase, a ballpoint pen and a ball-gag


[Title] Unholy Wars

[validity] Nations that range between antipathy to being somewhat positive towards religion but have neither the the Atheism nor Theocracy policies; also have an official religion that is not Atheism

[description] @@RANDOMNAME@@, your newly appointed Minister of Religious Affairs -- formerly the media representative for the All-Antifaith Alliance of Atheists, Anti-theists and Atheistic Agnostics -- caused outrage among the some religious believers when @@HIS@@ first act while in office was to "promote a message of upbeat rationalism" by sponsoring a banner ad on buses reading: Your Creator Probably Doesn't Exist. So Stop Praying and Start Playing.

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "Not only can their claims not be proven, they invite the verbal abuse of believers! Our nation must treat all people's religions with respect. @@HE_1@@ needs to apologise, then step aside for a candidate who fully understands the viewpoint of my fai... all faith communities. Another Ministry must want @@HIM_1@@, and I know some local worshippers who could really put spirituality back on the agenda."
[effect] TBD
[validity] nations officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who does @@HE_1@@ think @@HE_1@@ is?" shouts the frequently indignant lawyer from the Mistreated Martyrs Succour Society, an all-faith legal aid group that only ever seems to accept cases from members of @@FAITH@@. "Not only can their claims not be proven, they invite the abuse of believers! Government officials oughtn't belittle our religious rights. @@HE_1@@ needs to apologise, then step aside for a candidate who fully understands the viewpoint of my fai... all faith communities. Another Ministry must want @@HIM_1@@, and I know some local worshippers who would really encourage a greater respect for all believers... even those icky atheists."
[effect] TBD
[validity] nations officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "Give these vermin any platform and they tell the gullible -- children, the deranged, women -- that our glorious Creator does not exist! That's why all atheists, agnostics, liberal believers, and followers of any other faith must be routed from all employment; and all funds withheld from persons not temperate and godly -- like me. Think of the good use we'll put the sinners' money to... And the souls we'll save, of course. Blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners will soon accept the enduring love of our merciful Creator when faced with starvation."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with low religiousness or governmental antipathy

[option] "Who is this wishy-washy fruitcake?" bellows the more-frequently outraged representative of @@FAITH@@ Voice, from whom many believers dissociate themselves. "See how these vermin disrespect our official, true religion, and tell the gullible -- children, the deranged, women -- that our glorious Creator does not exist? Tolerate no false 'truths': atheists, agnostics, liberal believers and followers of other faiths. Deny them all power and employment. Withhold all funds from persons not temperate and godly -- like me. Think of the good use we'll put the sinners' money to... And the souls we'll save, of course. Blasphemers, backsliders and boldfaced scorners will soon accept the enduring love of our merciful Creator when faced with starvation."
[effect] emaciated atheists keep warm burning holy books behind new marble monuments to the Creator's bounty
[validity] nation with some governmental religiousness

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Religion is over! We don't care what some obnoxious ranting guy thinks. He has less influence than the third assistant to the Junior Under-Minister of Underwater Basket Weaving. @@LEADER@@, ditch the Creator Crew and only hire atheists for any public servant job or position of authority. Trust me, normal people will be fine, because they'll see that the most logical people are getting good jobs. Hey, I'm reasonable! The Sam-I-Amens can still have entry-level jobs, mopping up puke and things."
[effect] canteen workers with three degrees are reminded to "cover hands, hair and iconography to prevent contagion"
[validity] nations that are officially antipathic towards religion

[option] "Who is this fundamentalist idiot?" roars the even-more frequently infuriated atheist talking head from panel show The Godless Squad, accidentally spitting on you. "Face it: we're sick of religion and ranting nutters who think their obnoxious opinion matters. Let's just move on: stop teaching kids about it, clamp down on whingeing religious types, and make atheism a desirable trait for any newly hired public sector employee; surely sensible people who see the grim reality of the world as it is -- rather than wishing for something 'better' -- are just the people we want in the public sector."
[effect] blue-sky thinking has given way to grey-day realism
[validity] nations that are officially somewhat positive towards religion

[option] "Who are these lunatics and why can't they use indoor-voices?" screams the never-angry Minister of Inner Calm and Chamomile Tea. "@@LEADER@@, giving @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@ that job was really stupid... what were you even thinking? And these people... For Violet's sake! The best way to calm this sh...ugar-storm is to assure the religious and irreligious alike that the @@DEMONYM@@ government respects and defends their religious rights. Then, you should make Ministers' continued employment conditional on not put out incendiary, controversial or harsh messages while holding office. Then, drink your damn tea. It's getting cold." Muttering what you gather to be unflattering things in Galliennais, she storms out.
[effect] essential equipment for a @@DEMONYM@@ Minister is said to include a briefcase, a ballpoint pen and a ball-gag


Comments really welcome.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:37 am, edited 13 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:22 am

Why did this guy so obssessed with atheism to the point whdrere he'd pay money out of his own pocket to promote it? I mean religious people, yea, they want to get into heaven, or be reincarnated as a king or whatever. That's not to say that atheists have notive for promoting atheism, but I wanna know what that motive is
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 am

With the Atheist bus campaign of 2008-2009, the aim was to promote "peaceful and upbeat messages of Atheism", and to counteract the religious campaign by JesusSaid (which claimed all non-Christians would burn in Hell for eternity).

The competing bus campaign requires too much explaining, and is too much like the competing posters for pro- and anti-LGBT+ activists in one of the other issues.

But I have edited in a reference to the "upbeat messages" thing. It's a tiny change, so I've added it in to the first draft.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:36 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:With the Atheist bus campaign of 2008-2009, the aim was to promote "peaceful and upbeat messages of Atheism", and to counteract the religious campaign by JesusSaid (which claimed all non-Christians would burn in Hell for eternity).

The competing bus campaign requires too much explaining, and is too much like the competing posters for pro- and anti-LGBT+ activists in one of the other issues.

But I have edited in a reference to the "upbeat messages" thing. It's a tiny change, so I've added it in to the first draft.

As a Christian myself, I must say that the concept of hell as a literal place of literal fire and brimstone is a really bad interpretation of the Bible, based on Dante's Divine Comedy. For someone, people started takimg that work of satyr seriously. As an Orthodox, I understand that the fire and brimstone is figurative. This has nothing to do with the issue. It's just something that really bothers and something that I thought I'd clear up. Maybe you could take this into account though. Maybe @@LEADER@@ could run a counter campaign about how the fires aren't literal. If you do that though, take into account that some religions, e.g. Islam, do believe in the literal interpretation of fire and brimstone
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues
Please sign my petition to transport water across Australia (real life)
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:44 pm

The nation having a custom nation religion in the @@FAITH@@ field, as demanded by the validity, is rather under-addressed the issue. I was expecting something along the lines of "how can we claim that this is our national religion when barely anyone in the nation believes it anymore?", but the options are mostly just about supporting or opposing religion in general, not how to deal with citizens losing touch with a historically-important part of their cultural heritage (or whatever it is that prompted you to name it as your national religion).

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Postby Window Land » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:35 pm

Make sure to keep issue #6 in mind with this draft. The whole minister of religious affairs seems rather similar to the spiritual advisor.
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The Free Joy State
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:With the Atheist bus campaign of 2008-2009, the aim was to promote "peaceful and upbeat messages of Atheism", and to counteract the religious campaign by JesusSaid (which claimed all non-Christians would burn in Hell for eternity).

The competing bus campaign requires too much explaining, and is too much like the competing posters for pro- and anti-LGBT+ activists in one of the other issues.

But I have edited in a reference to the "upbeat messages" thing. It's a tiny change, so I've added it in to the first draft.

As a Christian myself, I must say that the concept of hell as a literal place of literal fire and brimstone is a really bad interpretation of the Bible, based on Dante's Divine Comedy. For someone, people started takimg that work of satyr seriously. As an Orthodox, I understand that the fire and brimstone is figurative. This has nothing to do with the issue. It's just something that really bothers and something that I thought I'd clear up. Maybe you could take this into account though. Maybe @@LEADER@@ could run a counter campaign about how the fires aren't literal. If you do that though, take into account that some religions, e.g. Islam, do believe in the literal interpretation of fire and brimstone

As I decided to not refer to the "burning in Hell" campaign, to avoid clashing with an extant issue, this is unrelated to my draft.

Window Land wrote:Make sure to keep issue #6 in mind with this draft. The whole minister of religious affairs seems rather similar to the spiritual advisor.

We have multiple revolving door posts over the course of the issues, with varying -- sometimes similar -- titles (and the same title with a completely different name in different issues), so I'm not sure about the extent to which this matters. It's not a decision that the game directly tracks.

Also, Spiritual Advisor and the Minister of Religious Affairs could be two different posts.

Trotterdam wrote:The nation having a custom nation religion in the @@FAITH@@ field, as demanded by the validity, is rather under-addressed the issue. I was expecting something along the lines of "how can we claim that this is our national religion when barely anyone in the nation believes it anymore?", but the options are mostly just about supporting or opposing religion in general, not how to deal with citizens losing touch with a historically-important part of their cultural heritage (or whatever it is that prompted you to name it as your national religion).

Yeah, there was more about that in a previous (offline) draft, but it ran long and ended up deleted. I'll try and put it back.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:19 pm

Draft two slightly tentatively up
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:39 am

The Free Joy State wrote:a more positive and respectful image of my faith... faith
What purpose does the duplication here serve? I'd understand if the speaker originally said something questionable and then corrected @@HIM@@self to say something more politically-correct (as with the previous version, where the speaker tried to also endorse other religions than just @@FAITH@@), but I don't see the point of just saying the same thing twice.

The Free Joy State wrote:but these vermin have hardened their hearts, that the may falsely claim
Should be "they".

The Free Joy State wrote:"Look -- believe in it or not -- as part of our cultural history, @@FAITH@@ has inspired wonderful works. History matters!"
I like this angle and would suggest emphasizing it more.

In real life, Greek mythology is still widely popular as a work of literature and often inspires art and fantasy fiction, even though pretty much nobody believes it seriously anymore. I wonder if you can fit in an option along these lines, suggesting that we should still be proud of our @@FAITH@@ heritage and teach its stories and morals the way we do other important historical literature such as the works of Wakesword, and have the government continue to use symbolic imagery derived from @@FAITH@@ (think Rod of Asclepius and the like), even if we no longer take it as literal truth.

I do agree with your concern that this would make the draft run long (though the prevalence of option duplicates makes it look longer than it really is). Regarding that, I don't think you necessarily need both a moderate and extreme version of the pro-@@FAITH@@ option. Keep in mind that the problem here is that piety rates are dropping nationwide (though not necessarily to the point of "pretty much nobody anymore"), not just that one minister said something that is offensive to the beliefs of the majority of the nation, so proposed solutions should immediately address how they're planning to encourage @@FAITH@@ nationally. This doesn't necessarily need to be as extreme as "execute unbelievers", but it probably needs something more substantial than "appoint a religious affairs ministers who says some nice things about @@FAITH@@".
Last edited by Trotterdam on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:46 am

Trotterdam wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:a more positive and respectful image of my faith... faith
What purpose does the duplication here serve? I'd understand if the speaker originally said something questionable and then corrected @@HIM@@self to say something more politically-correct (as with the previous version, where the speaker tried to also endorse other religions than just @@FAITH@@), but I don't see the point of just saying the same thing twice.

It means that that got missed when reworking and proofreading my draft.

The Free Joy State wrote:but these vermin have hardened their hearts, that the may falsely claim
Should be "they".

Whoops. My proofread missed this too.

The Free Joy State wrote:"Look -- believe in it or not -- as part of our cultural history, @@FAITH@@ has inspired wonderful works. History matters!"
I like this angle and would suggest emphasizing it more.

In real life, Greek mythology is still widely popular as a work of literature and often inspires art and fantasy fiction, even though pretty much nobody believes it seriously anymore. I wonder if you can fit in an option along these lines, suggesting that we should still be proud of our @@FAITH@@ heritage and teach its stories and morals the way we do other important historical literature such as the works of Wakesword, and have the government continue to use symbolic imagery derived from @@FAITH@@ (think Rod of Asclepius and the like), even if we no longer take it as literal truth.

I do agree with your concern that this would make the draft run long (though the prevalence of option duplicates makes it look longer than it really is). Regarding that, I don't think you necessarily need both a moderate and extreme version of the pro-@@FAITH@@ option. Keep in mind that the problem here is that piety rates are dropping nationwide (though not necessarily to the point of "pretty much nobody anymore"), not just that one minister said something that is offensive to the beliefs of the majority of the nation, so proposed solutions should immediately address how they're planning to encourage @@FAITH@@ nationally. This doesn't necessarily need to be as extreme as "execute unbelievers", but it probably needs something more substantial than "appoint a religious affairs ministers who says some nice things about @@FAITH@@".

Hmm... That's an interesting thought. I'll look at reworking that into the next draft (probably tomorrow, now).

Thank you for the feedback!
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 pm

Draft three up.

A couple of new effect lines; still nothing for #1

I have kept the more moderate/extremist options -- I'm not fixed on that for the final draft, if this doesn't work, but thought I'd try it this way.

But I have worked the options more around representation of @@FAITH@@ in a country that's losing touch with @@FAITH@@ -- still some way to go, I think.

Removed the doppelganging for #1; wondering about trying to slim out some of these doppelgangers in future drafts.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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The Free Joy State
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Founded: Jan 05, 2014
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Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:34 am

Having had a few days away, Draft Four is up with fairly significant changes.

I'd welcome feedback.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.


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