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[SUBMITTED] The Oppressed Majority

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Jutsa
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[SUBMITTED] The Oppressed Majority

Postby Jutsa » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:05 am

So, I was wondering, "What's another stat often considered 'good' that there could be too much of?"

Then I came up with this. :rofl:

Actually, this was originally just a draft about extensive government-spending on inclusiveness,
but I figured before uploading, "why not take this a bit further?"

I hope you enjoy. :lol:

Many thanks to Chan Island for writing up most of the post-draft1.1 content and bringing this draft back to life. :clap:

Title: The Oppressed Majority
The Issue: Scandal rocked @@NAME@@ today when it was discovered that police in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ were ignoring persistent reports, stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter because the perpetrator is an ethnic Bigtopian woman. The police reported they felt anywhere from "a bit worried" to "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest. Many @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ — including many minority groups — are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far.
Validity: (Co-authored by Jutsa) Nation is extremely inclusive, nation has high social policy

Option 1: "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? The police would rather let a criminal get away than be fired for being racist, even though it's mostly ethnic @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ that forget that evil knows no color. As this incident shows, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else and arrest that loser."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority

Option 2: "You can't do that!" screeches @@RANDOMNAME@@, while polishing the previous speaker's pedestal. "The videos are clearly a bigoted plot to send our social progress backwards a century! Clearly, this issue came about because of a lack of diversity in the all-@@DENONYM@@ police of that town. If we had diversity quotas in force in the force, then we could ensure that everyone is truly equal." @@HE@@ begins to fan the previous speaker.
[effect] police chases halt to call for backup any time a criminal's ethnicity is different than expected

Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who was recently jailed for the heinous crime of spilling some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even do anything about their reprehensible actions. What about our rights — we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else


Title: The Oppressed Majority
The Issue: Scandal rocked @@NAME@@ today when it was discovered that police in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ were ignoring persistent reports, stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter because the perpetrator is an ethnic Bigtopian woman. The police reported they felt anywhere from "a bit worried" to "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest. Many @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of the minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far.
Validity: Nation is extremely inclusive, nation has high social policy

Option 1: "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? The police would rather let a criminal get away than be fired for being racist, even though it's mostly ethnic @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ that forget that evil knows no color. As this incident shows, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else and arrest that loser."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority

Option 2: "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by an ethnic @@DEMONYM@@. "The videos are clearly a bigoted plot to send our social progress backwards a century! Clearly, this issue came about because of a lack of diversity in the all-@@DENONYM@@ police of that town. If we had diversity quotas in force in the force, then we could ensure that everyone is truly equal." @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect] police chases halt to call for backup any time a criminal's ethnicity is different than expected

Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who was recently jailed for the heinous crime of spilling some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even do anything about their reprehensible actions. What about our rights - we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else


Title: The Oppressed Majority
The Issue: Scandal rocked @@NAME@@ today when it was discovered that police in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ were ignoring persistent reports, stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter because the perpetrator is an ethnic Bigtopian woman. The police reported they felt anywhere from "a bit worried" to "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest. Many @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of the minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far.
Validity: Nation is extremely inclusive, nation has high social policy

Option 1: "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? Native policemen are too scared to even arrest minority criminals because they fear they're more likely to be fired for minority abuse than letting criminals get away. As this incident shows, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else and arrest that loser."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority

Option 2: "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by a native @@DEMONYM@@. "The videos are clearly a bigoted plot to send our social progress backwards a century! Clearly, this issue came about because of a lack of diversity in the all-@@DENONYM@@ police of that town. If we had diversity quotas in force in the force, then we could ensure that everyone is truly equal." @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect]bored minority police officers eagerly await a "Code Min"

Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who was recently jailed for the heinous crime of spilling some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even do anything about their reprehensible actions. What about our rights - we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else


Title: The Oppressed Majority
The Issue: You were called to a meeting in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ when a @@DEMONYM@@ was arrested for assaulting an asexual Wezeltonian woman turned man who now cross-dresses. It turns out @@HE@@ was carrying her groceries, slipped on a rogue banana peel, and drenched her in food products. Many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone a bit too far.
Validity: Nation is extremely inclusive, nation has high social policy

Option 1: "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? Native policemen are too scared to even arrest minority criminals because they fear they're more likely to be fired for minority abuse than letting criminals get away. It's not only unfair, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority

Option 2: "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by a native @@DEMONYM@@. "We should have more government security, not less! The second you let your guard down, the bigots will be abusing their power, as the Evil Grocery Dumper has proven. It'd send our social progress backwards a century! The only way to ensure that we are truly all equal is for you to boost the funds for equality protection and enforcement!" @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect] so much as looking at someone strangely is cause for arrest

Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who recently spilled some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even say anything about their appearance without being harped on by the government. What about our rights - we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else


Title: The Oppressed Majority
The Issue: You were called to a meeting in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ when a @@DEMONYM@@ was arrested for assaulting an asexual Wezeltonian woman turned man who now cross-dresses. It turns out @@HE@@ was carrying her groceries, slipped on a rogue banana peel, and drenched her in food products. Many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone a bit too far.
Validity: Nation is extremely inclusive, nation has high social policy

Option 1: "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? Native policemen are too scared to even arrest minority criminals because they fear they're more likely to be fired for minority abuse than letting criminals get away. It's not only unfair, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority

Option 2: "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by a native @@DEMONYM@@. "We should have more government security, not less! The second you let your guard down, the bigots will be abusing their power, as the Evil Grocery Dumper has proven. It'd send our social progress backwards a century! The only way to ensure that we are truly all equal is for you to boost the funds for equality protection and enforcement!" @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect] so much as looking at someone strangely is cause for arrest

Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who recently spilled some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even say anything about their appearance without being harped on by the government. What about our rights - we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? A huge slash to this social policing has been long overdue, wouldn't you agree?"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else
Last edited by Jutsa on Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:09 pm

DP but I changed the final sentence of dialogue. :P
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:09 am

Option 1- The term "native" doesn't sit well with me. It might work well in Eurasia, but in the New World, that's like saying that Indian/Native American policemen in the USA are scared to go after white people, or Aboriginal police officers in Australia don't want to chase white criminals
Option 2- But it clearly states that this incident was an accident. Maybe you should specify that the speaker intentionally ignored the police report
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:49 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- The term "native" doesn't sit well with me. It might work well in Eurasia, but in the New World, that's like saying that Indian/Native American policemen in the USA are scared to go after white people, or Aboriginal police officers in Australia don't want to chase white criminals
Option 2- But it clearly states that this incident was an accident. Maybe you should specify that the speaker intentionally ignored the police report


Couldn't quite place what was wrong with this, and now you have.

We have several issues that explicitly state that the @@DENONYM@@s are not quite the 'natives' of their country. Try using something like "ethnic @@DENONYM@@ instead.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:34 am

Chan Island wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- The term "native" doesn't sit well with me. It might work well in Eurasia, but in the New World, that's like saying that Indian/Native American policemen in the USA are scared to go after white people, or Aboriginal police officers in Australia don't want to chase white criminals
Option 2- But it clearly states that this incident was an accident. Maybe you should specify that the speaker intentionally ignored the police report


Couldn't quite place what was wrong with this, and now you have.

We have several issues that explicitly state that the @@DENONYM@@s are not quite the 'natives' of their country. Try using something like "ethnic @@DENONYM@@ instead.

Or how 'bout just "ethnic majority" or "racial majority"
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:22 am

The Issue: You were called to a meeting in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ when a @@DEMONYM@@ was arrested for assaulting an asexual Wezeltonian woman turned man who now cross-dresses. It turns out @@HE@@ was carrying her groceries, slipped on a rogue banana peel, and drenched her in food products. Many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone a bit too far.


A few things here.

Firstly, your pronouns are all over the place. The macro I presume is intended to randomise the gender of the person arrested for assault. However, you've then used "her" for the target of the assault, which is confusing, as the target of the assault should be referred to with male pronouns.

Secondly, your terminology is a little slack and imprecise, and has judgement values within it. Asexual refers to sexual preferences, and one could ask here why it is relevant. "Woman turned man" implies that the individual used to be a woman whereas is now a man, which most transgender folk would see as an incorrect categorisation. A more acceptable approach would be a "transgender man". The addition of "who now cross-dresses" is actually quite amusing, though not terribly believable. If someone was born into a female body but identifies as male, why would they be motivated to cross dress as female?

Finally, the last sentence comes out of nowhere. Why would people be wondering if the stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far? What is the event that has triggered this speculation? A member of a minority being named as the victim of an alleged assault? Why is there sexual preference and gender identity even being reported by the neutral narrator?

The entire premise is tone-deaf and poorly executed, though there is a potentially usable idea underneath it all.

You need to rephrase it so that it presents some sort of challenge to social norms that goes beyond the usually acceptable and into the sublimely extreme, and then have that event be the reason why people are wondering if inclusiveness has gone too far. The situation, not the narrator, should be what is challenge excessive political correctness. At the same time, this should be done in a way where there's no offensive strawman being set up or biased opinions being presented through the neutral narrator or situation (so no trans-folk claiming that their gender is "attack helicopter", for example, but okay to have an anti-trans speaker using that as an exemplem in-character).

It's not an easy thing to do, but its what you need to achieve if you want a publishable issue on this topic.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:56 am

I sense I've got a lot of work to do if I wanna keep this. :blush:

Firstly, your pronouns are all over the place. The macro I presume is intended to randomise the gender of the person arrested for assault. However, you've then used "her" for the target of the assault, which is confusing, as the target of the assault should be referred to with male pronouns.
Woman turned man" implies that the individual used to be a woman whereas is now a man, which most transgender folk would see as an incorrect categorisation.
I used "woman turned man" to indicate sex change as I couldn't think of any other way of phrasing it at the time. :blush:
Edit: Pretty sure "transexual" is the term I'm looking for, here.

Asexual refers to sexual preferences, and one could ask here why it is relevant.
I figured they'd still count as a minority, but it was thrown in last-minute. :P
The addition of "who now cross-dresses" is actually quite amusing, though not terribly believable. If someone was born into a female body but identifies as male, why would they be motivated to cross dress as female?
They could find it more comfortable? :P

Why is there sexual preference and gender identity even being reported by the neutral narrator?
It was reported to sorta give heft to the fact that they're a minority... though in this day and age I'm not so sure they're considered "minorities" anymore. :blush:

Finally, the last sentence comes out of nowhere. Why would people be wondering if the stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far? What is the event that has triggered this speculation? A member of a minority being named as the victim of an alleged assault?

The event was supposed to be the fact that the grocery-bag dumper was arrested simply because they were a majority injuring a minority. [I'll probably change that to "he" to help make things clearer]
I know it's not the most graceful premise, but it's already a lot of text, and I'm having some trouble framing it in a way that could indicate this was just a spark for something that's a much larger problem overall.
The entire premise is tone-deaf and poorly executed, though there is a potentially usable idea underneath it all.
Yeah, can't deny that. :blush:

The situation, not the narrator, should be what is challenge excessive political correctness. At the same time, this should be done in a way where there's no offensive strawman being set up or biased opinions being presented through the neutral narrator or situation
I didn't mean to give off that impression, I just don't have the best way with words. :blush:
The narrative was supposed to be completely neutral, but obviously I've got some implicit bias to work out.
(I'd like to note that I myself am an asexual but I'm also not very LGBTQ nor political, the latter being strange given the game I'm playing.)

It's not an easy thing to do, but its what you need to achieve if you want a publishable issue on this topic.
It'll be even harder given I'm not even entirely sure I can see where the problem lies, but I'll give it a try.
If you've got any suggestions, I'd be more than delighted to take them. :blush:
Last edited by Jutsa on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:17 am

Sure.

Make the premise clearer first. If its an issue about someone being arrested for spilling stuff on someone just because the victim was trans, then say that. Though to be honest, that's your strawman argument right there - there's no way that situation would happen in real life even in the most liberal country.

Rather, why not pick out some challenging questions about transgender and an oppressed majority that could actually take place?

Issue 767 is a great example of this. If a professor chooses to use the pronouns he wants to rather than the ones his student wants, is this political correctness gone mad, or is despicable transphobia?

Work something where there's more of a central dilemma in place. Brainstorming:

- The old toilet dilemma. A trans woman wants to use the lady's toilet. I think actually someone submitted something like this recently.
- Trans athletes. What if a trans woman wants to compete alongside cis women? Again, I think this one may have been submitted recently...
- Trans record keeping. If government / medical records categorise an individual according to their birth gender, should records be forced to be updated? Should binary genders be recorded at all?
- Trans and men-only clubs. Nice double issue here. Should trans guys be allowed into men-only social clubs? And of course, should men-only social clubs even be allowed?
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:45 am

These are all good issue ideas, but the point of my draft was supposed to be based on the concept
that the majority are feeling like the government's treating them worse than everyone else
as overcompensation. This'd especially be true if affirmative action is in play, but thinking about it,
I wouldn't be surprised if a reversal issue for that already exists. :blink:

Eh, I'm afraid I can't actually think of a better premise that'd cover this concept, atm.
Even if I were to work on another premise, I believe I'd just end up writing a new draft.

I can see I still have to work on my premises. It's much easier for me to come up with options and
situations than it is for me to come up with a reason for why they're a problem.
(Well, hopefully I'll get past this at some point. No guarantees though. :3)

I'll be closing this for now. Anyone else is free to pick away at it and run with it. :)
Er - unless I'm encouraged not to for some reason. At any rate, thank you, CWA~
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:31 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:- The old toilet dilemma. A trans woman wants to use the lady's toilet. I think actually someone submitted something like this recently.
Recently? #538 option 3 does that, though the issue starts off being about cis women. (#297 option 3 takes a different tack.)

It's not that big of a deal anyway. I've always thought of the gender signs on public toilets as more of a suggestion than a rule.

One time that I was present, the line for the womens' toilets in a crowded place was so backed up that some of them gave up and entered the mens' stalls instead. This happened in full view of everyone, and nobody cared, or at least nobody dared to complain out loud.

Personally I've once used a female toilet simply because the male ones were out of order and I didn't want to go all the way to a different floor, though nobody else was there at the time.

I actually do care a lot about privacy and modesty, and I hate urinals because of their public nature. But I figure so long as I'm in a stall that's concealed from everyone else, who cares who's in the stall next to me? We can't see each other.

If you really think that letting men and women get anywhere close to each other is horribly indecent, then consider the existence of cisgender homosexual people. Why don't people panic about decency when a lesbian enters the womens' stall? Her mind can be just as dirty as any man's. Though more likely, it's the other side of her that's dirty and that's why she needs to use the toilet. It's what they're for.

This whole idea that it's "more okay" to share private space with someone of the same gender is stupid. I protect my privacy from everyone, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, but I acknowledge that there are also people who are much less prudish about that, but either

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:- Trans athletes. What if a trans woman wants to compete alongside cis women? Again, I think this one may have been submitted recently...
Umm, yeah, that's #297.

I think living in a Forest of thousands-years-old trees has skewed your perception of what's "recent".

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:- Trans and men-only clubs. Nice double issue here. Should trans guys be allowed into men-only social clubs? And of course, should men-only social clubs even be allowed?
How many people whould actually vote for the "men-only cubs are allowed but they have to accept trans men" option?

Gender discrimination being a bad thing is a pretty mainstream position these days. To the degree that anyone tolerates men-only clubs it's most likely on the basis of libertarian "it's the club leaders' right to decide for themselves who they lets into they club" reasoning, in which case it's also be their right to decide how they feel about trans people.

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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:49 pm

Why are you discarding this? It's a good premise!

Here, my suggestions as to how to fix this.

Description: This part is your main problem. Frankly, such a minor incident shouldn't be in the attention of a national leader.

You should maybe take a few notes about what's been happening in Britain. Just recently there was a massive scandal where police in Telford were found to be letting thousands of girls be raped because they were afraid of being called racist. Your Smalltopian person already mentions that criminals are being let go scot-free because they happen to be in a minority so why not run with it? Obviously, something so depressingly sordid and extensive as what happened in Telford or Rotherham would distract from the issue I'm sure you can come up with something.

Validity is good for this premise.

That way option 1 actually would make a lot of sense: the Smalltopian celebrity, literally standing on a pedestal being cleaned by ethnic @@DENONYM@@s would have a very real concern about safety.

Option 2 would then be somebody saying something about how this came about through a lack of equality.

Option 3 would then make complete sense too.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:44 am

Yay! This is one of those "unless I'm encouraged not to for some reason" instances. :lol:

Yeah, come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure why I didn't just go with that first option's premise in the first place. :blink:

This'll still be closed until I come up with something, but thank you Chan :3
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:39 pm

Hey, Chan, if you really like this, do you want to be co-authors and run with this?

I figured I'd ask before I actually went ahead and did anything to it,
which I don't think I will until I finally get to editing my singularity draft. :P
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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:02 am

Jutsa wrote:Hey, Chan, if you really like this, do you want to be co-authors and run with this?

I figured I'd ask before I actually went ahead and did anything to it,
which I don't think I will until I finally get to editing my singularity draft. :P


Sure, I'll happily be a co-author. 8)
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Jutsa
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:16 am

Alrighty, then! Put whatever you want into this draft, and I'll be sure to put it in the OP (if not, yell at me). :)

I'll of course scrutinize your work as you'll scrutinize mine, I presume. :P
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
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Annihilators of Chan Island
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Postby Annihilators of Chan Island » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:50 pm

Jutsa wrote:Alrighty, then! Put whatever you want into this draft, and I'll be sure to put it in the OP (if not, yell at me). :)

I'll of course scrutinize your work as you'll scrutinize mine, I presume. :P


Sure thing!

The first and foremost thing about this will be the description. I was thinking if we are going to have crime as the focus, we should have some kind of an inciting incident. I actually came up with a minor version perfect for NS. What are your thoughts?

Scandal rocked @@NAME@@ today when it was discovered that police in a small town in northwestern @@NAME@@ were ignoring persistent reports, stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter... because the criminal was an ethnic Bigtopian woman, and the police cited being "a bit worried" and "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest. Many @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ - including a majority of the minorities - are beginning to wonder if the government's stance on social inclusiveness has gone too far.

The spirit of your first draft is still there, but the inciting incident has become an NS semi-silly version of something that could actually come to the leader of the nation's attention. It would also raise valid questions about if the police is really protecting communities anymore in my opinion.


[option] "It's not that we don't admire what you've been doing," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a Smalltopian town celebrity, who is quite literally on a pedestal, "but must everyone be so politically correct all the time? Native policemen are too scared to even arrest minority criminals because they fear they're more likely to be fired for minority abuse than letting criminals get away. As this incident shows, it's actually starting to be a bit dangerous and..." @@HE@@ looks as a @@DEMONYM@@ polishes @@HIS@@ pedestal. "frankly, annoying. Please, just treat us like everyone else and arrest that loser."
[effect] minorities are forbidden to be treated better than the majority


Edits have been very minor, to tie it in more with the new and (possibly) improved description. Comments?


[option] "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by a native @@DEMONYM@@. "The second you let your guards arrest people like this misguided individual, the bigots will be abusing their power. It'd send our social progress backwards a century! The only way to ensure that we are truly all equal is for you to boost the funds for equality protection and enforcement!" @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect]border patrol agents risk arrest when arresting foreign smugglers


This is the choice I'm the least confident on, but I'm sure you've found some ideas on how this could be changed to suit the narrative already, right?


Option 3: "Do you see what our 'help the minority' policies are doing?" over-dramatically yells @@RANDOMNAME@@, who was recently jailed for the heinous crime of spilling some groceries on a Wezeltonian. "We've gotten so hung up about protecting the rights of the few that we can't even do anything about their reprehensible actions. What about our rights - we who have been loyal to @@NAME@@ since the dawn of its existence? You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are appalled that they're now treated better than everyone else


Again, very small, scalpel changes to suit the new description. Thoughts? :)
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Jutsa
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:40 pm

This looks fantastic, Chan Island. Thank you so much. :clap:

Now, some things I wanted to point out:

1)
[...]stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter... because the criminal was an ethnic Bigtopian woman, and the police[...]
This seems a bit run-on and prepositiony. What about "[...]stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter because the perpetrator's an ethnic Bigtopian woman. The police[...]"?

2)
the police cited being "a bit worried" and "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest
What about "Police reported they felt anywhere from "a bit worried" to "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest."?

3) Hmm... yes, option 2 doesn't seem to be very strong atm. Maybe he should claim that this is all an elaborate plan to arrest the criminal because she's a minority,
and sorta turn this around to pin the blame on the native policemen. Another possibility would be to point out that the policemen are all native,
and that an ethnic quota of non-native policemen be in the taskforce? Idk, what do you think?

4)
You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
Yeah I think the two "once and for all!"s were my bad; I added the latter one because I didn't notice the former. I'll probably slash the former one. :rofl:

That's all I've got. Won't adjust anything without your consent, though. Really, otherwise wonderful work, here. :clap:
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
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>List of missing issues/options
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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:02 am

Jutsa wrote:This looks fantastic, Chan Island. Thank you so much. :clap:

Now, some things I wanted to point out:

1)
[...]stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter... because the criminal was an ethnic Bigtopian woman, and the police[...]
This seems a bit run-on and prepositiony. What about "[...]stories and even videos of a serial shoplifter because the perpetrator's an ethnic Bigtopian woman. The police[...]"?

2)
the police cited being "a bit worried" and "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest
What about "Police reported they felt anywhere from "a bit worried" to "utterly, bed-wettingly terrified" of being called "racist" if the force had carried out an arrest."?

3) Hmm... yes, option 2 doesn't seem to be very strong atm. Maybe he should claim that this is all an elaborate plan to arrest the criminal because she's a minority,
and sorta turn this around to pin the blame on the native policemen. Another possibility would be to point out that the policemen are all native,
and that an ethnic quota of non-native policemen be in the taskforce? Idk, what do you think?

4)
You need to end this tyranny by minority once and for all, and significantly slash the government's social policing once and for all!"
Yeah I think the two "once and for all!"s were my bad; I added the latter one because I didn't notice the former. I'll probably slash the former one. :rofl:

That's all I've got. Won't adjust anything without your consent, though. Really, otherwise wonderful work, here. :clap:


Thanks for the kind words. :blush:

1) You propose a very nice clean up. Full approval.

2) I love it! Full approval here as well.

3) You have brought in the missing piece I couldn't quite figure out. How's this for an option 2?


[option] "You can't do that!" screeches Maltovean @@RANDOMNAME@@, before eating a grape dangled before @@HIM@@ by a native @@DEMONYM@@. "The videos are clearly a bigoted plot to send our social progress backwards a century! Clearly, this issue came about because of a lack of diversity in the all-@@DENONYM@@ police of that town. If we had diversity quotas in force in the force, then we could ensure that everyone is truly equal." @@HE@@ notions to be fanned.
[effect]bored minority police officers eagerly await a "Code Min"


Your idea of blaming it on an all-native police force was the key I couldn't come up with, but which you absolutely nailed. By doing that, we then put forward an actual pro- more social inclusiveness option that isn't 100% insane. In addition, it then ties in nicely with the premise of it happening in a small town: a village of 2000 inhabitants might well have a police station who only really worry about shoplifters, but would likely have so few recruits that they might well be 100% ethnic @@DENONYM@@.

Thoughts?

4) I like the 2 'once and for all' s in the piece; it's amusing and of course, since we know this option would lead the nation to be valid for all of the existing issues about there not being enough social inclusion, it's a neat foreshadowing. In all honesty I actually thought you put it there deliberately.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:59 am

I'm glad you liked the 4th thing I did. :rofl:

Updated the OP. I absolutely love it. :clap:

"If we had diversity quotas in force in the force"
This is my only concern. It's kinda funny, but it also feels quirky,
though it's hardly a major concern. :P
(get it, because it's a minority concern... I'll see myself out)

Aside from that, all we've got to do is sit back, wait for someone else to come and show something's gone horribly wrong,
maybe adjust a couple nit-picks if either of us find any, and then submit it...

which, uh, brings me to an important topic: Who submits this?
I'd say it wouldn't matter, but only one of us gets the issue badge. :?

I know I compiled the base situation, options, and wording, and inadvertently the premise,
but you shed light on the premise, reworked the issue so it works, and revived the draft.
Course, I also made minor edits to your edits, but that aside. :lol:

Regardless, I gladly offer it to you, seeing as I don't mind not having another badge as long as the concept makes it to the game. :)

Edit: OH YEAH, also, do you think "The Oppressed Majority" is still a good title for this draft, or do you think something more police/social policy-related should be made?
I'll let you come up with something if you think it needs it. Speaking of which, think "must have law and order funding" should be a validity, or naeh?*
Last edited by Jutsa on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
>List of issue ideas
>List of missing issues/options
>List of accepted issues~
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:54 am

If criminals can only be arrested by officers of the same race, I can see police chases suddenly needing to stop and call for reinforcement because the suspect turned out to be of a different race than expected...

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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:59 am

Hmm, that too would be an interesting effect line... :lol:

Thoughts, Chan? :3
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
>List of issue ideas
>List of missing issues/options
>List of accepted issues~
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Fauxia
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Fauxia » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:06 pm

I think saying "The perpetrator is/was" sounds better than "the perpertator's"
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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Changed. :lol:
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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:11 am

You still use "native" in option 1?
--------------------
I've noticed that most of the time, minorities aren't offended, it's self-rightous white people who think they are. For example, Muslims aren't offended by Christmas, but self-rightous white people think they are. Muslims couldn't give a shit. This does NOT apply to policing, but in either case, maybe you can incorporate it?
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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:55 am

lol, you have a point there. Also, I thought I removed all natives and replaced them with ethnic — whoops. :blush:

Edit: Attempted the fix and addition to both. Also changed the effect line. :)
Last edited by Jutsa on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
>List of issue ideas
>List of missing issues/options
>List of accepted issues~
^ I know this is hardly a flashy signature, but at least I have one now.

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