[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Venetoland]

Thanks Candle! That's a very sensible explanation.

[Han Rukh]

With this nation, I just answered #023: Uranium Deposit Promises To Enrich @@NAME@@ with the first option, to cut down the rainforest, and my Eco-Friendliness just rose by 275%. That was an increase of 550~ points, which now puts me in the top half of the world's nations by Eco-Friendliness. I don't get the link between cutting down rainforests and Eco-Friendliness, am I missing something here?

[All are Equal]

Banning censorship UPS Authoritarianism? Sounds contradictory, but I'm sure the logic will be obvious once it's pointed out to me.

[Luna Amore]

Banning censorship UPS Authoritarianism? Sounds contradictory, but I'm sure the logic will be obvious once it's pointed out to me.

Issue/Choice/Nation.
Every report.

[Kamsund]

- The name of the nation that had this effect

Kamsund

- The day that this effect was encountered

Same day of this post.

- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue.

Keep the Greenbelt Green, Say Protesters

I chose this answer:

"I agree with my colleague here, but he doesn't go far enough," says, a city planner. "These protestors are standing in the path of progress. It slows the growth of our economy and harms my portfolio - er - the future of our nation, I mean. It's unpatriotic and we should increase police funding to deal with these troublemakers. Then we wouldn't have to worry about greenbelts or any other nonsense about keeping the 'environment' safe. Think about it for a moment!"

Effect:

Environmental protestors are being rounded up and taken away in sinister black vans as a massive land development campaign gets underway.

No Dissent

Public protests are illegal.

This is totally authoritarian, right? But I lost 37,4% of authoritarianism.

Doesn't make sense at all and it has happened with many issues.

[Hamramstan]

Thanks for your answer in the last one!

193.1 (giving jobs back to workers after automation kicked them out) lowered my Employment by 3.6%, the inverse of my prediction. What happened with that? Are the employers now habitually outsourcing? Do the newly unemployed robots count as citizens?

Generally putting more restrictions on trade will force you to lose more jobs elsewhere, it's accurate with the real world

[Trotterdam]

This is totally authoritarian, right? But I lost 37,4% of authoritarianism.

This action limits political freedom (people aren't allowed to protest), but raises economic freedom (no pesky environmental protection laws). If people already weren't allowed to protest, but you did have environmental protections, you'd feel the latter effect more.

Generally, I would recommend against looking at Authoritarianism as a primary stat. What you should be looking at is the three freedoms: Civil Rights, Economic Freedom, and Political Freedom. Authoritarianism is derived from those, and so shouldn't ever do something illogical unless one of those three did.

[Ransium]

This is totally authoritarian, right? But I lost 37,4% of authoritarianism.

This action limits political freedom (people aren't allowed to protest), but raises economic freedom (no pesky environmental protection laws). If people already weren't allowed to protest, but you did have environmental protections, you'd feel the latter effect more.

Generally, I would recommend against looking at Authoritarianism as a primary stat. What you should be looking at is the three freedoms: Civil Rights, Economic Freedom, and Political Freedom. Authoritarianism is derived from those, and so shouldn't ever do something illogical unless one of those three did.

I was basically going to write this, it gets the IE stamp of approval

[Roman-Britannic Empire]

Complaint about the issue "The Deportation of Mr. B. Leeper"

I chose option 2 for deportation and it lowered my civil rights.

"Deporting people to places he already has a sentance obviously lowers civil rights duh" no, in the issue he's very specifically guilty of something.

[Trotterdam]

You're deporting him to somewhere he would likely get a worse punishment than if he were tried and sentenced in your own nation... or at least that's what the option implies (it never actually says what he's wanted for in Maxtopia, and I'm not sure if the issue has any validities regarding how harsh your own nation's justice system is).

[Roman-Britannic Empire]

You're deporting him to somewhere he would likely get a worse punishment than if he were tried and sentenced in your own nation... or at least that's what the option implies (it never actually says what he's wanted for in Maxtopia, and I'm not sure if the issue has any validities regarding how harsh your own nation's justice system is).

Still a complaint. Regardless of what punishment in Maxtopia awaits him, I'm not inflicting the punishment and in no way does the option imply he was framed in Maxtopia.

[Ransium]

“We don’t want the little brat back!” declares the Brancalandian Foreign Minister, seen smashing Bryan Leeper CDs with a hockey stick. “I bumped into the Maxtopian ambassador on my way here. It seems that Mr. Leeper has an outstanding legal issue over in Maxtopia that could involve jail time if he’s found guilty. Why not extradite him there as a diplomatic move? What’s that? Well yes, Maxtopia has the death penalty. I’m sure he hasn’t done anything that serious there.”

I think we fundamentally disagree on civil rights. I can't read this option and see it as doing anything but taking away the rights of citizens albiet mildly. Keep in mind, NS tracks civil right relating to crime and punishment.

[La Badlandoj]

467.3 (children consenting to their own body modification) decreased my Civil Rights by over a point. I can vaguely guess why, but my CR is pretty low right now, so I can't see how that'd reduce my freedom rather than increasing it.

[Kamsund]

Generally, I would recommend against looking at Authoritarianism as a primary stat. What you should be looking at is the three freedoms: Civil Rights, Economic Freedom, and Political Freedom. Authoritarianism is derived from those, and so shouldn't ever do something illogical unless one of those three did.

Thank you, but how about Defense Forces and Industry in general? Which freedom should be focused?

[Trotterdam]

Thank you, but how about Defense Forces and Industry in general? Which freedom should be focused?

...I don't understand the question?

Defense and industries are entirely different from the freedom stats, and while certain issues might affect both (in particular, industries have an obvious relationship to economic freedom), both high and low values for those stats are entirely compatible with both high and low freedoms in each of the three categories.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Authoritarianism, which is what your original post was about.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

467.3 (children consenting to their own body modification) decreased my Civil Rights by over a point. I can vaguely guess why, but my CR is pretty low right now, so I can't see how that'd reduce my freedom rather than increasing it.

Tweaked the stats on that one now.

I feel what it should have been doing is weighing up the rights of the young to bodily autonomy vs freedom of religious practice, and so should be one of those options that can move civil rights either way. However, what it was coded to do was to restrict the freedoms both of religion and of youth autonomy. Now fixed.

[Azurius]

With this nation, I just answered #023: Uranium Deposit Promises To Enrich @@NAME@@ with the first option, to cut down the rainforest, and my Eco-Friendliness just rose by 275%. That was an increase of 550~ points, which now puts me in the top half of the world's nations by Eco-Friendliness. I don't get the link between cutting down rainforests and Eco-Friendliness, am I missing something here?

This is easily explained: Your economy saw a huge increase, so did your average income. You may lost a few percent of eco friendlieness. However, due to the fact that your economy saw such a surge, your public services of course now increased massively due to your massive increase of income.

More income means the same amount of tax in % produces more public services, and this includes eco friendlieness as well. The raw gain of income simply outdid any loss you had by cutting eco friendlieness in %.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

With this nation, I just answered #023: Uranium Deposit Promises To Enrich @@NAME@@ with the first option, to cut down the rainforest, and my Eco-Friendliness just rose by 275%. That was an increase of 550~ points, which now puts me in the top half of the world's nations by Eco-Friendliness. I don't get the link between cutting down rainforests and Eco-Friendliness, am I missing something here?

This is easily explained: Your economy saw a huge increase, so did your average income. You may lost a few percent of eco friendlieness. However, due to the fact that your economy saw such a surge, your public services of course now increased massively due to your massive increase of income.

More income means the same amount of tax in % produces more public services, and this includes eco friendlieness as well. The raw gain of income simply outdid any loss you had by cutting eco friendlieness in %.

Good bit of deduction that, and is correct. Most government departments rose by a much larger amount, but environment spending still went up overall.

This wouldn't happen in most nations, it's just part of the weird sim. Worth noting that actual quality of the environment fell.

[New Rikerland]

New Rikerland
November 19th 2017
Issue 330 (Supermarkets Gobbling Up All The Customers?) option 2

I got this one yesterday and was very surprised to see the results. The first option is to side with small businesses and restrict all big business. Second option which I chose was to get government out of regulating business, and the third option is to basically nationalize business. The strange results were that my economy went down, income of the rich went down and strangest of all is that my economic freedom went down. I can think of a few very rare cases where having a more free market might temporarily drop the economy or hurt wealthy, but how does economic freedom ever become lower from the government being less involved.

[Ajeckvause]

Ajeckvause
Novemebr 20th 2017
Issue no. 380 Farmers Seeding Discontent Option 1

I selected the first option (to subsidize the farming industry) and received positive percentage to my economy, business subsidization, industry:cheese exports, and sector: agriculture on the results screen. However once I looked at my trends for both cheese exports and sector agriculture I was surprised to see major decline (with my agriculture sector going from 691 to -6.1). Why did this occur?

[Roman-Britannic Empire]

I think we fundamentally disagree on civil rights. I can't read this option and see it as doing anything but taking away the rights of citizens albiet mildly. Keep in mind, NS tracks civil right relating to crime and punishment.

It is not sensible for that option to decrease civil rights. He only faces punishment if he was guilty in Maxtopia. In Roman-Britannic Empire, he's guilty of (whatever it was in the issue, drunken driven or something) so a deportation of a non citizen who commited a crime is hardly violating anyone's civil rights. Your logic of punishment=less civil rights makes no sense. Punishment of the innocent I could see, but in no way does the issue imply his innocence

[Ransium]

I think we fundamentally disagree on civil rights. I can't read this option and see it as doing anything but taking away the rights of citizens albiet mildly. Keep in mind, NS tracks civil right relating to crime and punishment.

It is not sensible for that option to decrease civil rights. He only faces punishment if he was guilty in Maxtopia. In Roman-Britannic Empire, he's guilty of (whatever it was in the issue, drunken driven or something) so a deportation of a non citizen who commited a crime is hardly violating anyone's civil rights. Your logic of punishment=less civil rights makes no sense. Punishment of the innocent I could see, but in no way does the issue imply his innocence

So do you think if someone steals a loaf of bread and one nation gives them a day in jail and the other chops of their hand the two nations are equal in terms of civil rights? It's implied that Maxtopia is going to punish the singer harshly for something that probably is not really deserving in my reading of the issue.

It's also not really my logic but the built in logic of the game engine which we, as IEs, implement.

[Ransium]

New Rikerland
November 19th 2017
Issue 330 (Supermarkets Gobbling Up All The Customers?) option 2

I got this one yesterday and was very surprised to see the results. The first option is to side with small businesses and restrict all big business. Second option which I chose was to get government out of regulating business, and the third option is to basically nationalize business. The strange results were that my economy went down, income of the rich went down and strangest of all is that my economic freedom went down. I can think of a few very rare cases where having a more free market might temporarily drop the economy or hurt wealthy, but how does economic freedom ever become lower from the government being less involved.

1) This issue deals with a mix of economic freedoms, so not all nations would have the outcome you did (see OP of this thread). Most nations would experience the opposite effect, in fact.

2) The decreasing economic freedom is the ability to open new businesses. A nation that does not restrict monopolies in anyway does not prevent monopolies from squashing competition in away that isn't really a "free market". But again keep in mind 1.

[Ransium]

Ajeckvause
Novemebr 20th 2017
Issue no. 380 Farmers Seeding Discontent Option 1

I selected the first option (to subsidize the farming industry) and received positive percentage to my economy, business subsidization, industry:cheese exports, and sector: agriculture on the results screen. However once I looked at my trends for both cheese exports and sector agriculture I was surprised to see major decline (with my agriculture sector going from 691 to -6.1). Why did this occur?

Another issue choice today hurt the cheese exports and agg sector more. In this case it was "Scientist Declare @@animal@@ Persons" option 3. It's a pretty crazy option and the stats extrapolate less animal product consumption from this choice.

[Drasnia]

It is not sensible for that option to decrease civil rights. He only faces punishment if he was guilty in Maxtopia. In Roman-Britannic Empire, he's guilty of (whatever it was in the issue, drunken driven or something) so a deportation of a non citizen who commited a crime is hardly violating anyone's civil rights. Your logic of punishment=less civil rights makes no sense. Punishment of the innocent I could see, but in no way does the issue imply his innocence

So do you think if someone steals a loaf of bread and one nation gives them a day in jail and the other chops of their hand the two nations are equal in terms of civil rights? It's implied that Maxtopia is going to punish the singer harshly for something that probably is not really deserving in my reading of the issue.

It's also not really my logic but the built in logic of the game engine which we, as IEs, implement.

Think of it this way: People have a right to be protected from false imprisonment / cruel and unusual punishment which you are violating by extraditing him to Maxtopia.