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Trotterdam
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:51 am

Some worthwhile reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purebred_dog#Eugenics_and_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformation_show#Criticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed
I also occasionally ran across texts that made me go "Seriously?" in individual animal breeds' articles, but I don't really remember which ones. It's not a subject I expore all that often.

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The Marsupial Illuminati
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:02 am

Is there room for an issue about the fat acceptance movement? There a few issues that contain a fat acceptance option, so that's why I'm asking.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15959
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:59 am

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:How about internship? Do you (you or anyone else reading this post) think that it could make a good issue?

There's already an issue on that subject, focusing on the unpaid nature of the internships.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15959
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:08 am

I'm still preparing my first draft for the 'Masonic Cospiracy!' idea.

Meanwhile, another idea has occurred to me: What about property-owners' rights to do what they want with walls that have been "decorated" with graffiti, if that graffiti is regarded as having artistic merit? This could 'tree' off from the existing issue on graffiti, if the game already tracks decisions made there or the powers-that-be don't mind adding that to the details tracked.
Worth proceeding with?
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729.

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Jutsa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 946
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:17 am

I actually have an issue made specifically to be a reversal to legalizing graffiti, myself,
but I honestly think that both of our ideas could probably coexist.
Even if they couldn't, yours might turn out better than mine, anyway, so go for it. :lol:
Don't mind me, just signatureless atm.

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Trotterdam
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:46 am

Hey, Ransium has a new name color!

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Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 2914
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Ransium » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:46 pm

Trotterdam wrote:Hey, Ransium has a new name color!


Yes hoping to stay active in GI as an IE still. However, I might not be able to be so active and I probably will not be editing issues again for several months at least.
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:09 pm

Congrats Ransium!
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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:48 am

How does an issue for non-binary people in gendered languages sound?
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Singapore no2
Diplomat
 
Posts: 581
Founded: Apr 10, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Singapore no2 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:16 am

Australian Republic wrote:How does an issue for non-binary people in gendered languages sound?

Didn't someone already do that before?
Singapore Gum Import Ban World Assembly Resolution Parody
Personal Political Compass

This is a Modern-Tech nation. We only put a satellite and a man into space so far.
We are a Middle power, so if we die, so will some of the global economy.
We have the 8th largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. (RL world)
Pro: Regulations, Military, Law and Order
Anti: Freedom of speech, Discrimination, CHEWING GUM
Just so you know, I don't think like that. That stuff is roleplaying Singapore (itself, the real life nation)

I have many issues, But at least someone accepts me for who I am. Which I can appreciate, of course.

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Jutsa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 946
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:06 am

Don't mind me, just signatureless atm.

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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:52 am


But that's about gendered prnouns in languages such as English, which are relatively agender. I was refering to lsnguages such as Greek and Hebrew, where every single noun, including inatimate objects falls into a gender, and all the grammar around that word is affected. Sure, Greek may have a neuter, genderless third gender, but Hebrew has only masculine ans feminine genders, meaning every single word is either masculine or feminine, and there is absolutely no way around that, not even a grammatically incorrect substitue exist, everything has to be masculine or feminine no exceptions. (This is apparently why the Abrahemic God is refered to as "He" despite being refered to as gender/sexless in the bible). Not agendered languages like English which can replace single words because they're interchangable, but rather, a language where if you change one word's gender, you have to change the entire sentance

Now let's pretend that English is gendered. For this, I have to make up imaginary words. Let's say that the masculine of that is "thato" and the feminine of that is "thata", and you get "the" masculine is "tho" and feminine is "tha". Also, all masculine words end in "o" and all feminine words in "a"

Bring me thato coffeeo (as coffee is masculine)
Bring me thata chaira (as chair is feminine)
Tha chaira is in tho yardo
Bring me tho coffeeo and that chaira. Tho coffeeo, he is in tha kitchena, and tha chaira, she is in tha diningrooma
As you can see, there is no alternative. Every word has to be thato or thata. "That" as a gender neutral word does not. At all. It's either "thato" or "thata"
The best you can do is, because gender neutral "the" "that" and "it" simply do not exist. There is no equivilant.
Bring me thata coffeea, (use coffee as feminine) which is completely wrong, though it works, but a gender neutral alternative does not actually exist, it's either masculine or feminine that's it. It gets more complicated than what the English example I posted is, as that only requires one word to be changed, other languages require the entire sentance. (I think Spanish is also gendered, but am not 100% sure). Greek has a third, neutral gender, (which probably can't be used for living things) but other gendered languages such as Hebrew don't. Now, do we have an issue about non-binary people in those kinds of languages?
Last edited by Australian Republic on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
I pledge to my loyalty to Australia, Greece and Jesus Christ
Western Sydney Represent!
My blog
7 published issues

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15959
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:59 am

There's a dispute going on in RL France at the moment abut what gender to use for any combination of one or more 'masculine' nouns & one or more 'feminine' nouns: Historically, in French as governed by the Academie Francaise, any combination including at least one 'masculine' noun has counted as 'masculine',: Now, however, but it's now being suggested that one or another of several possible alternatives (such as using the gender of whichever noun is listed last in the combination, or using whichever gender has the most nouns -- or maybe the most people/objects/whatever -- in that combination) should become the rule instead.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729.

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Drasnia
Minister
 
Posts: 2230
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Drasnia » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:04 am

The problem is writing something that is funny enough to be an NS issue while still treating it with enough seriousness while not overlapping with Xe Said. I'm not sure how likely that is to be done either.

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 10586
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:20 am

The game is in English though, so the dilemma won't have any actual basis to connect the problem. It'd be like an issue bemoaning the problems with a tonal language written in English. There'd be a central disconnect that would undercut any dilemma.

We'd need a disclaimer to explain why the issue was an issue. I just don't see it working.
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

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Shwe Tu Colony
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1420
Founded: Sep 27, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shwe Tu Colony » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:06 pm

This discussion gives me an idea for an issue where a diplomat to a nation with a tonal language screws up in what they say. I wrote a quick description & possible options & effects for it.

During a friendly discussion about tourism with (another nation), your ambassador accidentally raised his pitch in fear several times in a conversation due to the constant reappearance of a spider. Due to how the discussion was spoken in a tonal language, (another nation's) rather incompetent diplomat thought that your ambassador was intentionally changing the pitch of his voice and was declaring war, among other offensive statements. In outrage, their (another nation) has declared war and encouraged embargoes against you.

Option 1: Try to tell them that your diplomat screwed up and to calm down, including the thing with the spider (another nation, however, finds spiders sacred and not frightful at all).
Effect 1: @@NATION@@ is regarded as laughingstock by (another nation) for their arachnophobia.
Option 2: Use the military on them.
Effect 2: Foreign diplomats are careful with homophones when speaking with @@NATION@@ in order to avoid war.
Option 3: Send in additional diplomats per meeting to ensure miscommunication does not happen.
Effect 3: Foreign diplomats need to host meetings in ballrooms for all of @@NATION@@'s ambassadors.
Option 4: Make your diplomats emotionless (so they can't feel the fear that caused the ambassador to raise his pitch).
Effect 4: @@NATION@@'s ambassadors sound like a more accurate machine translator.

After writing this I realized this story could just as easily be told with your diplomat saying near-homophones instead of involving a tonal language.
"Idiots have a high chance of dying. & by high, we mean execution." Current kill count of prominent idiots: 70
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USS Monitor
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 21571
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:16 am

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:This discussion gives me an idea for an issue where a diplomat to a nation with a tonal language screws up in what they say. I wrote a quick description & possible options & effects for it.

During a friendly discussion about tourism with (another nation), your ambassador accidentally raised his pitch in fear several times in a conversation due to the constant reappearance of a spider. Due to how the discussion was spoken in a tonal language, (another nation's) rather incompetent diplomat thought that your ambassador was intentionally changing the pitch of his voice and was declaring war, among other offensive statements. In outrage, their (another nation) has declared war and encouraged embargoes against you.

Option 1: Try to tell them that your diplomat screwed up and to calm down, including the thing with the spider (another nation, however, finds spiders sacred and not frightful at all).
Effect 1: @@NATION@@ is regarded as laughingstock by (another nation) for their arachnophobia.
Option 2: Use the military on them.
Effect 2: Foreign diplomats are careful with homophones when speaking with @@NATION@@ in order to avoid war.
Option 3: Send in additional diplomats per meeting to ensure miscommunication does not happen.
Effect 3: Foreign diplomats need to host meetings in ballrooms for all of @@NATION@@'s ambassadors.
Option 4: Make your diplomats emotionless (so they can't feel the fear that caused the ambassador to raise his pitch).
Effect 4: @@NATION@@'s ambassadors sound like a more accurate machine translator.

After writing this I realized this story could just as easily be told with your diplomat saying near-homophones instead of involving a tonal language.


The other nation should probably be Daguo.
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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:13 am

Sounds interesting, but I think that tonal languages all have different types of tonalness. Ensure you specify which type you refer to and base your issues on that
Last edited by Australian Republic on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
I pledge to my loyalty to Australia, Greece and Jesus Christ
Western Sydney Represent!
My blog
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Jutsa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 946
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:57 am

Hey, I have a question. Does Issue #502.3 have an alternate counterpart for nations without voting,
or does it just not show up for them, or does it actually appear for nations without voting..?
Don't mind me, just signatureless atm.

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USS Monitor
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 21571
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 pm

Australian Republic wrote:Sounds interesting, but I think that tonal languages all have different types of tonalness. Ensure you specify which type you refer to and base your issues on that


The issue already explains what the problem was. It doesn't need to go into detail about mechanics of the language. And simply using Daguo as the NPC nation would imply the language is similar to Chinese -- even though those types of misunderstandings in Chinese are less of a problem than people make them out to be. People can usually guess what you meant by context, even if you get a few tones wrong, but I think for issues purposes it's OK to exaggerate the risk of misunderstandings.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
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NationStates moderators may be harmful or fatal if swallowed.
In case of accidental ingestion, seek immediate medical assistance.

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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:03 pm

Bears Armed wrote:There's a dispute going on in RL France at the moment abut what gender to use for any combination of one or more 'masculine' nouns & one or more 'feminine' nouns: Historically, in French as governed by the Academie Francaise, any combination including at least one 'masculine' noun has counted as 'masculine',: Now, however, but it's now being suggested that one or another of several possible alternatives (such as using the gender of whichever noun is listed last in the combination, or using whichever gender has the most nouns -- or maybe the most people/objects/whatever -- in that combination) should become the rule instead.

Facinating.
I pledge to my loyalty to Australia, Greece and Jesus Christ
Western Sydney Represent!
My blog
7 published issues

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Australian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11314
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Australian Republic » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:19 pm

Hmmm, I think I found a work around for my issue
I pledge to my loyalty to Australia, Greece and Jesus Christ
Western Sydney Represent!
My blog
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Trotterdam
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Dàguó obviously uses a tonal language - that's what those annoying-to-type accent marks on the letters are for.

According to Candlewhisper Archive Dàguó is in fact actual Chinese, and Wiktionary backs this up.

Bears Armed wrote:There's a dispute going on in RL France at the moment abut what gender to use for any combination of one or more 'masculine' nouns & one or more 'feminine' nouns: Historically, in French as governed by the Academie Francaise, any combination including at least one 'masculine' noun has counted as 'masculine',: Now, however, but it's now being suggested that one or another of several possible alternatives (such as using the gender of whichever noun is listed last in the combination, or using whichever gender has the most nouns -- or maybe the most people/objects/whatever -- in that combination) should become the rule instead.
You could just use both. I mean, we do address mixed-gender groups with "ladies and gentlemen" rather than arguing about whether we should count ladies as also being gentlemen or count gentlemen as also being ladies.

Of course, that's going to get tedious to keep repeating.

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Shwe Tu Colony
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1420
Founded: Sep 27, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shwe Tu Colony » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:08 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Australian Republic wrote:Sounds interesting, but I think that tonal languages all have different types of tonalness. Ensure you specify which type you refer to and base your issues on that


The issue already explains what the problem was. It doesn't need to go into detail about mechanics of the language. And simply using Daguo as the NPC nation would imply the language is similar to Chinese -- even though those types of misunderstandings in Chinese are less of a problem than people make them out to be. People can usually guess what you meant by context, even if you get a few tones wrong, but I think for issues purposes it's OK to exaggerate the risk of misunderstandings.


I'll probably emphasize that Daguo's diplomat dislikes @@NATION@@ & is also incompetent (or maybe only one), so the tonal issue is him intentionally & knowingly not interpreting @@NATION@@'s diplomat, with anyone else in the area confused that @@NATION@@ would declare war in this situation, but Daguo's diplomat insists & successfully convinces that that the tonal rises were intentional. With this lack of opposition, I'll probably get the issue drafted soon. Or someone else could steal it due to me being too busy, we'll see (after posting this, I had the idea for an Easter egg where an issue author starts talking about their idea here & it gets stolen, but that may be too similar to an existent issue).

Although this issue would need to have Daguo be a spider-loving nation for option 1; I presume that would be fine to do?
Last edited by Shwe Tu Colony on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Idiots have a high chance of dying. & by high, we mean execution." Current kill count of prominent idiots: 70
If you compliment/thanked me, assume I've thanked you/said you're welcome but didn't write it out (feels strange to check on your thread expecting something new, only for it to have been a "thank you.")
Convenient em dash: —
Extension
Parfuhmerian Report {} Parfuhmerian Market Square opens | Parfuhmerie completes FFI-like Poison, sending samples to a nation that came back into existence | Ir'a Tar'rama leads archaeological group into newly discovered temple

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Singapore no2
Diplomat
 
Posts: 581
Founded: Apr 10, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Singapore no2 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 pm

Has an issue been done specifically as an analogue to the great purge?

Is @@CAPITAL@@gate already enough?
Singapore Gum Import Ban World Assembly Resolution Parody
Personal Political Compass

This is a Modern-Tech nation. We only put a satellite and a man into space so far.
We are a Middle power, so if we die, so will some of the global economy.
We have the 8th largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. (RL world)
Pro: Regulations, Military, Law and Order
Anti: Freedom of speech, Discrimination, CHEWING GUM
Just so you know, I don't think like that. That stuff is roleplaying Singapore (itself, the real life nation)

I have many issues, But at least someone accepts me for who I am. Which I can appreciate, of course.

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