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Trotterdam
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:37 pm

Ransium wrote:Those colors look like nothing. If I shined an infared laser in your eye you'd see... the laser pointer.
Yeah, but if the laser were the only source of light in the room, I'd see blackness. If an object were covered in paint that absorbs all light except infrared, it would appear black (just as an object covered in paint that absorbs all light except red would appear red under normal lighting conditions).

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The Grene Knyght
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Founded: May 07, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Grene Knyght » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:55 am

[_★_]
(◕‿◕)

AN-COM|FEMINIST |GREEN|NBNB|PORTAL NATIONALIST
2015 - x=-8.75, y=-6.56
2016 - x=-8.88, y=-9.54
2017 - x=-9.63, y=-9.9
Socialist Women wrote:Part of the reason you're an anarchist is because you ate too much expired food.


Bakery Hill wrote:The dialectic is not some cold process comrade, the world spirit is real and Guevara was its avatar, a creative force of destruction. We can manifest his ongoing power through chaos magic. All those t-shirts don't seem so stupid now do they?

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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people.

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The Grene Knyght
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Grene Knyght » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:39 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
The Grene Knyght wrote:Any Lovecraft fans here?
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=418582


yep.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=370936

"Validity:

Capitalist."
:(
[_★_]
(◕‿◕)

AN-COM|FEMINIST |GREEN|NBNB|PORTAL NATIONALIST
2015 - x=-8.75, y=-6.56
2016 - x=-8.88, y=-9.54
2017 - x=-9.63, y=-9.9
Socialist Women wrote:Part of the reason you're an anarchist is because you ate too much expired food.


Bakery Hill wrote:The dialectic is not some cold process comrade, the world spirit is real and Guevara was its avatar, a creative force of destruction. We can manifest his ongoing power through chaos magic. All those t-shirts don't seem so stupid now do they?

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:40 am

The Grene Knyght wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
yep.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=370936

"Validity:

Capitalist."
:(


Yeah, it's a bad call. A little rephrasing and that validity criteria could be excised, which I fully expect to happen should any of my colleagues decide to edit this one.

Glad to see your draft is a completely different story. Looks good too.
Editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people.

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Founded: Jul 30, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:21 am

Hey, about the new nation names in NS, do you think it would be OK if I came up with a new nation that is meant to be a parody of Turkey? You know, I write many drafts about crazy things happening in Turkey, so in case an issue is concerned with a foreign nation, @@NAME@@ could be dealing with this Turkey-parody.

As turkey is a kind of fowl, I thought this nation could be named "Fowland" (like Fowl+land). I think this is obscure enough to conceal its connection to Turkey (like the Brancaland-Canada pair), but if you focus on the "fowl" part, you can fathom the meaning.

What do you think?

I have a current issue draft on adoption, and the Ultravioletist immigrant family whose child has been taken away from them are said to be from Marche Noir. I think it wouldn't be too bad if they were from Fowland, just for a change.

But I understand it if you don't want to fill the game with lots and lots of made-up nation names. Any comments?
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 am

How about Gallopavia? From Meleagris gallopavo, the scientific name for the bird.
Editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people.

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Founded: Jul 30, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:49 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:How about Gallopavia? From Meleagris gallopavo, the scientific name for the bird.


Oh, that's great!

It also sounds like Gallipoli, a geographical region that can immediately be associated with Turkey.

Thanks!
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Trotterdam
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:50 am

Kind of weird considering that the turkey isn't even from Turkey :) (It was named after a random foreign nation simply to suggest exoticness, which is kinda culturally insensitive, but it's a little late to do something about that now.)

If you're going that route, though, I'd suggest using one of the quirkier fowl names, rather than something as bland as "Fowland". There's quail, grouse, ptarmigan...

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Bears Armed
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Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:54 am

Trotterdam wrote:Kind of weird considering that the turkey isn't even from Turkey :) (It was named after a random foreign nation simply to suggest exoticness,

Or from confusion with the [not unrelated] bird known today as the Guinea Fowl, which may initially have reached Europe via the Ottoman empire?
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729.

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:57 am

Trotterdam wrote:Kind of weird considering that the turkey isn't even from Turkey :) (It was named after a random foreign nation simply to suggest exoticness, which is kinda culturally insensitive, but it's a little late to do something about that now.)

If you're going that route, though, I'd suggest using one of the quirkier fowl names, rather than something as bland as "Fowland". There's quail, grouse, ptarmigan...


I guess I could go for Gallopavia, as suggested by CWA.

Also, the Turkish name for turkey is hindi, which is, as you may guess, related to India. (It used to mean "Indian" in Ottoman Turkish - also in Persian and Arabic, as far as I know - , but in modern Turkish we use the words Hint or Hintli, which are not terribly different from that.)

Well, it seems everybody thinks turkeys come from a foreign place, but they never get the location right lol.

Because turkeys are actually native to Americas.
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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:05 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:Kind of weird considering that the turkey isn't even from Turkey :) (It was named after a random foreign nation simply to suggest exoticness,

Or from confusion with the [not unrelated] bird known today as the Guinea Fowl, which may initially have reached Europe via the Ottoman empire?


Maybe, but this bird is not widely known in Turkey. Well, at least I didn't know its Turkish name, so I had to google it. The results were interesting.

It seems the Turkish word for guinea fowl is beç tavuğu, meaning Beç chicken. (The sound 'ç' is pronounced as 'ch').

According to Wikipedia, the Ottoman Turks first became familiar with this bird when they reached Central Europe, they thought it came from Vienna, and called it Viennese chicken. But at the time, the Turkish word for Vienna was Beç - which was actually the name Hungarians gave to Vienna (i.e. Bécs). :blink:

So maybe while the Turks thought the bird came from Austria, the Europeans thought it came from Turkey? (But why doesn't the German word for turkey have anything to do with Turkey?)

Etymology can be crazy.
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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:52 am

In that case I'd guess that the species' route from Africa might have been: upper Nile valley => [Ottoman] Egypt => Venice => onwards. That would explain both the Europeans naming it after the Turks, because of the Ottomans owning Egypt at that time, and the Turks themselves [other than their some of representatives in Egypt, of course] first encountering it in Hungary...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729.

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
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Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:01 am

My favourite expressions when it comes to etymology are the historic names for syphilis.

Let's see...

The Italians called it the French disease, the French called it the Italian disease, the Dutch called it the Spanish disease, the Russians called it the Polish disease and the Turkish called it the Christian or Frank (West Europe) disease.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of time going threw issue's and checking that their are no obvious errors. Its a tough job but someones got to do it!

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Founded: Jul 30, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:07 am

Bears Armed wrote:In that case I'd guess that the species' route from Africa might have been: upper Nile valley => [Ottoman] Egypt => Venice => onwards. That would explain both the Europeans naming it after the Turks, because of the Ottomans owning Egypt at that time, and the Turks themselves [other than their some of representatives in Egypt, of course] first encountering it in Hungary...


Fair enough, but this still doesn't answer why the Turks thought turkeys came from India. (because your explanation conflates turkeys with guinea fowls) --- By the way, it was a brilliant idea on your part to suggest that turkeys and guineafowls could have been mistaken, because that appears to have been the case.

OK, I believe the quote below (which I took from etymonline.com) will settle this question:

turkey (n.)

1540s, originally "guinea fowl" (Numida meleagris), a bird imported from Madagascar via Turkey, and called guinea fowl when brought by Portuguese traders from West Africa. The larger North American bird (Meleagris gallopavo) was domesticated by the Aztecs, introduced to Spain by conquistadors (1523) and thence to wider Europe. The word turkey first was applied to it in English 1550s because it was identified with or treated as a species of the guinea fowl, and/or because it got to the rest of Europe from Spain by way of North Africa, then under Ottoman (Turkish) rule. Indian corn was originally turkey corn or turkey wheat in English for the same reason.

The Turkish name for it is hindi, literally "Indian," probably influenced by Middle French dinde (c. 1600, contracted from poulet d'inde, literally "chicken from India," Modern French dindon), based on the then-common misconception that the New World was eastern Asia.
After the two birds were distinguished and the names differentiated, turkey was erroneously retained for the American bird, instead of the African. From the same imperfect knowledge and confusion Melagris, the ancient name of the African fowl, was unfortunately adopted by Linnæus as the generic name of the American bird.

The New World bird itself reputedly reached England by 1524 at the earliest estimate, though a date in the 1530s seems more likely. The wild turkey, the North American form of the bird, was so called from 1610s. By 1575, turkey was becoming the usual main course at an English Christmas. Meaning "inferior show, failure," is 1927 in show business slang, probably from the bird's reputation for stupidity. Meaning "stupid, ineffectual person" is recorded from 1951. Turkey shoot "something easy" is World War II-era, in reference to marksmanship contests where turkeys were tied behind a log with their heads showing as targets. To talk turkey (1824) supposedly comes from an old tale of a Yankee attempting to swindle an Indian in dividing up a turkey and a buzzard as food.


Caracasus wrote:My favourite expressions when it comes to etymology are the historic names for syphilis.

Let's see...

The Italians called it the French disease, the French called it the Italian disease, the Dutch called it the Spanish disease, the Russians called it the Polish disease and the Turkish called it the Christian or Frank (West Europe) disease.


Yes, says a lot about racial biases and hate, doesn't it? :)
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jutsa
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Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jutsa » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:18 am

Is there an option about banning sweets vs. improving food quality vs. subsidizing junk food vs. feeding everyone artificial supplements yet? :P

^ also would this even be possible with how the game works, and if you can come up with a better x vs y vs z (vs þ) feel free.
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Trotterdam
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:54 am

Jutsa wrote:Is there an option about banning sweets vs. improving food quality vs. subsidizing junk food vs. feeding everyone artificial supplements yet?
I'm not sure how those are even different sides of the same issue.

What do you mean with "improving food quality" and what does it have to do with banning sweets? (Apparently you don't think those are the same thing.)

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:12 pm

I mean, one's ideally just banning sweets whilst another's actually improving all food - I highly recommend looking up American food products. ;)

That being said, I'm more than content if it's just one of those two and it's a three-option plan, but has something along those lines been in the game?
Last edited by Jutsa on Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:57 pm

There's a bunch of issues about the health of fast food already (for example, #072, #288), but not specifically about sweets, that I can recall (I may have forgotten something).

Therefore, if you want to do this, I would suggest focussing on the sweets angle specifically.

You might consider including something about artificial sweeteners, with "they taste just as great without the health problems of actual sugar!" versus "you want to replace natural sugar with this awful lab-grown gunk!?".

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:34 pm

Trotterdam wrote:There's a bunch of issues about the health of fast food already (for example, #072, #288), but not specifically about sweets, that I can recall (I may have forgotten something).

Therefore, if you want to do this, I would suggest focussing on the sweets angle specifically.

You might consider including something about artificial sweeteners, with "they taste just as great without the health problems of actual sugar!" versus "you want to replace natural sugar with this awful lab-grown gunk!?".


I think there was a draft about carbonated drinks a few weeks ago and it received quite some acclaim here, but I don't know if it entered the game - yet. I think it also touched upon the sugar content of these drinks.

------

edit: Nope, it doesn't mention sugar. You're safe. :)

viewtopic.php?p=31716026#p31716026
Last edited by Frieden-und Freudenland on Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Marsupial Illuminati
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Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:45 am

I'm thinking about writing an issue about the assassination of a vocal critic of the nation's government, inspired by the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

[desc] A vocal critic of the government has been killed. People think your government is behind this.
[validity] must be an oppressive regime with some political freedom

However, referencing government dissatisfaction is avoided:
Ransium wrote:We try to avoid referencing leader's general unpopularity or the government general dissatisfaction as a matter of course.

Does this issue idea run afoul of referencing government dissatisfaction?

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Frieden-und Freudenland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:54 am

The Marsupial Illuminati wrote:I'm thinking about writing an issue about the assassination of a vocal critic of the nation's government, inspired by the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

[desc] A vocal critic of the government has been killed. People think your government is behind this.
[validity] must be an oppressive regime with some political freedom

However, referencing government dissatisfaction is avoided:
Ransium wrote:We try to avoid referencing leader's general unpopularity or the government general dissatisfaction as a matter of course.

Does this issue idea run afoul of referencing government dissatisfaction?


Well, it seems Ransium was referring to a "general dissatisfaction," i.e. the general populace not liking the leader.

This doesn't mean there can't be a sizeable group of opponents who are very dissatisfied with the leader ;) They could blame the assassination on @@LEADER@@.
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The Marsupial Illuminati
Spokesperson
 
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Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 am

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Well, it seems Ransium was referring to a "general dissatisfaction," i.e. the general populace not liking the leader.

This doesn't mean there can't be a sizeable group of opponents who are very dissatisfied with the leader ;) They could blame the assassination on @@LEADER@@.

Just wanted to make sure before I started writing the draft. Thank you for clearing that up.

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RantSpot
Secretary
 
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Founded: Feb 15, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby RantSpot » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:39 pm

I'm new to proposing issues and I have a few questions.
  1. How does one generate responses, criticism, and suggestions for issue drafts other than just posting them?
  2. Is it unreasonable to draft a bunch of issues at once and keep posting them? I may want to make it a routine but don't want to overload the community (and editors once they get to submission stage)
  3. Is there a place in the issue submission form to include specific effects? I don't see one
  4. Is there a section in the issue submission form to mention other issues which may be impacted or require edits? I don't see any; I've assumed such things can be mentioned in the validity section

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Drasnia
Minister
 
Posts: 2118
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Drasnia » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:41 pm

RantSpot wrote:I'm new to proposing issues and I have a few questions.
  1. How does one generate responses, criticism, and suggestions for issue drafts other than just posting them?
  2. Is it unreasonable to draft a bunch of issues at once and keep posting them? I may want to make it a routine but don't want to overload the community (and editors once they get to submission stage)
  3. Is there a place in the issue submission form to include specific effects? I don't see one
  4. Is there a section in the issue submission form to mention other issues which may be impacted or require edits? I don't see any; I've assumed such things can be mentioned in the validity section

1. Generally just posting it is enough. Because commenting can be time consuming and this is a slower moving forum, you'll probably have to wait a day or two before you have enough suggestions to make more revisions though. Even if you asked people personally to comment, you probably wouldn't get responses much faster.
2. No, draft as many as you'd like. Back when I was actively drafting, I'd usually have 3 and occasionally 4 up at the same time. I think Candlewhisper often had more than that while he was writing as well. Good luck keeping up with that many drafts though.
3. Stat suggestions were taken out recently. The editors almost never pay attention to them for a variety of reasons. If you really must tell them what needs to be added because you think there's no way they'd think of the stat effect, just say what you want done in the drafting thread. They always read those while editing so they know the intent of the author.
4.No. Editors don't change already published issues in order to add a new one; they change the new one to fit with the old canon.

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