[SUBMITTED] Born To Be My Baby

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

I changed the effect line accordingly. In fact, I have 2 candidates for effect lines. The first one states that mothers are assumed to love their children more than fathers do (echoing your suggestion) and the second one brings back the old effect line that I had deleted.

You might want to add a bit to the main option text foreshadowing that effect line, too.

OK, I tried to add a few lines that foreshadow the effect line.

[Australian rePublic]

Can I suggest a title?

Whose child is it anyway?

[Ransium]

Can I suggest a title?

Whose child is it anyway?

Too close to "Whose Fault is it Anyway" ( on my phone so I don't care to look up the issue number).

Agreed the title needs to go though.

[Uan aa Boa]

Judgement of Solomon?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Lots of baby song titles out there.

Keeping My Baby
My Baby Just Cares For Me
There Goes My Baby

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Suggest the following red text added:

3. [option] ''As always, science will provide the solution to this dilemma,'' states John Piaget, a developmental psychologist from University of @@CAPITAL@@. ''Just bring the baby and the two mothers to my lab. We will put the baby in one corner of a room and the mothers in two different corners. Then we'll record the eye movements of the baby - whoever he looks at the longest, is the mother favored by him, so she gets the custody. I call this the 'Preferential Looking Caregiver Selection Paradigm' - and if you give us a little funding, we could also use this brilliant technique to decide which parent should get the custody of a child when they get divorced and it would really take the load off the family courts. Think about it!''
[effect]divorcees attending custody disputes usually wear black-and-white zigzag patterns

4. [option] ''That's a terrible idea. Nobody should put baby in a corner!' grumbles @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the headmistress of @@CAPITAL@@ orphanage, even as she cradles a baby in her arms, while two other toddlers clutch at her skirts. ''Our institution is overflowing with poor orphans and it is hard to look after them all. Wouldn't it be better if these couples just adopted a kid from here?'' Taking advantage of your momentary absent-mindedness she puts the baby on your lap. ''Speaking of adoption, would you like to take care of this adorable little girl? I think she likes you.''
[effect] the adage ''blood is thicker than water'' is being poured down the drain

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Hmm, I notice that instead of quote marks you are using paired apostrophes. Please fix that before submitting.

That is, " not '' please.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

Lots of baby song titles out there.

Keeping My Baby
My Baby Just Cares For Me
There Goes My Baby

That's a brilliant suggestion. I want to go with "Born To Be My Baby" by Bon Jovi if that's OK - kinda feels more appropriate in this situation

Suggest the following red text added:

3. [option] ''As always, science will provide the solution to this dilemma,'' states John Piaget, a developmental psychologist from University of @@CAPITAL@@. ''Just bring the baby and the two mothers to my lab. We will put the baby in one corner of a room and the mothers in two different corners. Then we'll record the eye movements of the baby - whoever he looks at the longest, is the mother favored by him, so she gets the custody. I call this the 'Preferential Looking Caregiver Selection Paradigm' - and if you give us a little funding, we could also use this brilliant technique to decide which parent should get the custody of a child when they get divorced and it would really take the load off the family courts. Think about it!''
[effect]divorcees attending custody disputes usually wear black-and-white zigzag patterns

4. [option] ''That's a terrible idea. Nobody should put baby in a corner!' grumbles @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the headmistress of @@CAPITAL@@ orphanage, even as she cradles a baby in her arms, while two other toddlers clutch at her skirts. ''Our institution is overflowing with poor orphans and it is hard to look after them all. Wouldn't it be better if these couples just adopted a kid from here?'' Taking advantage of your momentary absent-mindedness she puts the baby on your lap. ''Speaking of adoption, would you like to take care of this adorable little girl? I think she likes you.''
[effect] the adage ''blood is thicker than water'' is being poured down the drain

Nice suggestion again. I initially thought this 'put baby in a corner' was just an idiom, but I was even more surprised when I found out it was a reference to Dirty Dancing. Great! That's a multi-layered joke.

Hmm, I notice that instead of quote marks you are using paired apostrophes. Please fix that before submitting.

That is, " not '' please.

Oops, I got caught.

Fixed that, thanks.

[Australian rePublic]

Lovin' the new title

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

More comments after the latest little changes?

[Ransium]

First time I've really read over the issue and you've done a very nice job with this issue overall and it's a clever dilemma idea.

[description]When @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ and @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@ couldn't conceive, they employed a surrogate mum to bear a child for them, using the dad's sperm and the surrogate mum's egg. However, after the baby was born, the surrogate mother refused to give up the child, and is battling for permanent custody.

To an American the term mum is very informal. I think but I'm not sure mom (or mother) would be more universally formal. I think you should specify at the top of the issue "When [u]would be parents[/i] @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@...

Interested parties have come to your office to demand action.

I (and most) editors are quire sick of statements such as this one. Remember every word of the opener is precious, don't waste them on now @@LEADER@@ needs to decide sort of statements. Cut it, the opener works fine with just the first quote box.

[validity] adults only

"This is unbelievable, how can you rob me of my parental rights?" asks the intended father of the baby, holding his wife's hand. "My wife has ovarian cancer and she cannot have children, therefore we decided to hire a surrogate. She was artificially inseminated with my sperm, we paid her 100,000 @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ for the job, and now she says she wants to keep the baby. Utter nonsense! As the biological father of this child, I demand that his custody be given to us."

This first sentence after the dialogue tag seems unnecessary, you already summarized it in the opening text. Cut it and instead develop his arguments more or just make the option shorter

[effect]police officers are allowed to snatch babies from their prams

Effects lines are pretty tough for this issue and I'm not really in effects line developing mood. But for whatever it's worth I'd never heard the word pram before so I'm just confused by this. You might trying going poignant instead of funny, we let that happen sometimes in effects lines.

2. [option] "There is no way you can take my little Justin from me!" yells @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the surrogate mother, letting the baby dangle on the handcuff strapped around her wrist. "Don't you ever forget that I am his biological mother, look at his eyes! He just looks like me! And I-I became attached to him after carrying him for 9 months, not to mention the mother-child bonding we had the moment I first held him in my arms! That guy who claims paternity rights just because he gave me his sperm has no such bond with Justin. @@LEADER@@, please let me keep MY child!"

I think she needs to say she's going to give back the money she was paid, else she seems like she was just in it for the money.

3. [option] "As always, science will provide the solution to this dilemma," states John Piaget, a developmental psychologist from University of @@CAPITAL@@. "Just bring the baby and the two mothers to my lab. We will put the baby in one corner of a room and the mothers in two different corners. Then we'll record the eye movements of the baby - whoever he looks at the longest, is the mother favored by him, so she gets the custody. I call this the 'Preferential Looking Caregiver Selection Paradigm' - and if you give us a little funding, we could also use this brilliant technique to decide which parent should get the custody of a child when they get divorced and it would really take the load off the family courts. Think about it!"

Honestly I would seriously consider cutting this. I didn't read through the comment thread to see if others love it though. I think this issue would work best as 3 option issue.

4. [option]"That's a terrible idea. Nobody should put baby in a corner!" grumbles @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the headmistress of @@CAPITAL@@ orphanage, even as she cradles a baby in her arms, while two other toddlers clutch at her skirts. "Our institution is overflowing with poor orphans and it is hard to look after them all. Wouldn't it be better if these couples just adopted a kid from here?" Taking advantage of your momentary absent-mindedness she puts the baby on your lap. "Speaking of adoption, would you like to take care of this adorable little girl? I think she likes you."

On the other hand the baby in a corner line was the single best joke in the issue, it actually made me laugh out loud (literally). Might be worth keeping three just for that joke. I would make clear that this issue is suggesting ending all forms of in vitro fertilization and surrogacy to force families to adopt, because otherwise the whole thing comes of as a suggestion for this couple in particular and it's not clear what national policy is being suggested. Actually that maybe something you might want to subtly but emphasis on in 1 and 2 also, that your not just talking about this couple but are making policy for all surrogacy cases. Try not to add to much length, though, because your already slightly too wordy for a 4 option issue.

[Trotterdam]

To an American the term mum is very informal. I think but I'm not sure mom (or mother) would be more universally formal.

Hmm, I agree. I consider both "mum" and "mom" to be relatively informal, and typically imply affection, or at least a social relationship - exactly the thing whose existence is under debate in this issue.

When describing someone as a parent in purely the biological rather than social sense, I would spell it out as "mother".

I think you should specify at the top of the issue "When [u]would be parents[/i] @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@...

I don't agree with this one. The fact that they want to be parents is obvious from the text ("couldn't conceive" implies that they tried, and why else would you hire a surrogate mother?), so this falls under word economy and show, don't tell.

Also, it would have to be "would-be".

[effect]police officers are allowed to snatch babies from their prams

Effects lines are pretty tough for this issue and I'm not really in effects line developing mood. But for whatever it's worth I'd never heard the word pram before so I'm just confused by this.

Apparently, it's a synonym for "baby carriage". It wasn't too hard to guess from context (I mean, obviously it's a place where you're likely to find a baby), but just replacing it with "carriages" would probably make it more understandable on both sides of the pond.

I think she needs to say she's going to give back the money she was paid, else she seems like she was just in it for the money.

Well, "just in it for the money" may not be the right way to word it, since she clearly wants the baby too (in this situation, just being in it for the money - and thus complying with what's being asked of her so long as she gets paid - would actually be the honest and reasonable behavior for her), but I agree that offering a refund would make her position sound more reasonable.

3. [option] "As always, science will provide the solution to this dilemma," states John Piaget, a developmental psychologist from University of @@CAPITAL@@. "Just bring the baby and the two mothers to my lab. We will put the baby in one corner of a room and the mothers in two different corners. Then we'll record the eye movements of the baby - whoever he looks at the longest, is the mother favored by him, so she gets the custody. I call this the 'Preferential Looking Caregiver Selection Paradigm' - and if you give us a little funding, we could also use this brilliant technique to decide which parent should get the custody of a child when they get divorced and it would really take the load off the family courts. Think about it!"

Honestly I would seriously consider cutting this. I didn't read through the comment thread to see if others love it though.

I didn't.

I don't think the "let the baby choose" option really makes sense, given that the baby in this scenario is too young to have formed an attachment to either parent yet. (I do think the child's opinion should at least be considered in divorce cases involving older children, but that's not funny.)

[Australian rePublic]

First time I've really read over the issue and you've done a very nice job with this issue overall and it's a clever dilemma idea.

[description]When @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ and @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@ couldn't conceive, they employed a surrogate mum to bear a child for them, using the dad's sperm and the surrogate mum's egg. However, after the baby was born, the surrogate mother refused to give up the child, and is battling for permanent custody.

To an American the term mum is very informal. I think but I'm not sure mom (or mother) would be more universally formal. I think you should specify at the top of the issue "When [u]would be parents[/i] @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@...

Interested parties have come to your office to demand action.

I (and most) editors are quire sick of statements such as this one. Remember every word of the opener is precious, don't waste them on now @@LEADER@@ needs to decide sort of statements. Cut it, the opener works fine with just the first quote box.

[validity] adults only

"This is unbelievable, how can you rob me of my parental rights?" asks the intended father of the baby, holding his wife's hand. "My wife has ovarian cancer and she cannot have children, therefore we decided to hire a surrogate. She was artificially inseminated with my sperm, we paid her 100,000 @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ for the job, and now she says she wants to keep the baby. Utter nonsense! As the biological father of this child, I demand that his custody be given to us."

This first sentence after the dialogue tag seems unnecessary, you already summarized it in the opening text. Cut it and instead develop his arguments more or just make the option shorter

[effect]police officers are allowed to snatch babies from their prams

Effects lines are pretty tough for this issue and I'm not really in effects line developing mood. But for whatever it's worth I'd never heard the word pram before so I'm just confused by this. You might trying going poignant instead of funny, we let that happen sometimes in effects lines.

2. [option] "There is no way you can take my little Justin from me!" yells @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the surrogate mother, letting the baby dangle on the handcuff strapped around her wrist. "Don't you ever forget that I am his biological mother, look at his eyes! He just looks like me! And I-I became attached to him after carrying him for 9 months, not to mention the mother-child bonding we had the moment I first held him in my arms! That guy who claims paternity rights just because he gave me his sperm has no such bond with Justin. @@LEADER@@, please let me keep MY child!"

I think she needs to say she's going to give back the money she was paid, else she seems like she was just in it for the money.

3. [option] "As always, science will provide the solution to this dilemma," states John Piaget, a developmental psychologist from University of @@CAPITAL@@. "Just bring the baby and the two mothers to my lab. We will put the baby in one corner of a room and the mothers in two different corners. Then we'll record the eye movements of the baby - whoever he looks at the longest, is the mother favored by him, so she gets the custody. I call this the 'Preferential Looking Caregiver Selection Paradigm' - and if you give us a little funding, we could also use this brilliant technique to decide which parent should get the custody of a child when they get divorced and it would really take the load off the family courts. Think about it!"

Honestly I would seriously consider cutting this. I didn't read through the comment thread to see if others love it though. I think this issue would work best as 3 option issue.

4. [option]"That's a terrible idea. Nobody should put baby in a corner!" grumbles @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the headmistress of @@CAPITAL@@ orphanage, even as she cradles a baby in her arms, while two other toddlers clutch at her skirts. "Our institution is overflowing with poor orphans and it is hard to look after them all. Wouldn't it be better if these couples just adopted a kid from here?" Taking advantage of your momentary absent-mindedness she puts the baby on your lap. "Speaking of adoption, would you like to take care of this adorable little girl? I think she likes you."

On the other hand the baby in a corner line was the single best joke in the issue, it actually made me laugh out loud (literally). Might be worth keeping three just for that joke. I would make clear that this issue is suggesting ending all forms of in vitro fertilization and surrogacy to force families to adopt, because otherwise the whole thing comes of as a suggestion for this couple in particular and it's not clear what national policy is being suggested. Actually that maybe something you might want to subtly but emphasis on in 1 and 2 also, that your not just talking about this couple but are making policy for all surrogacy cases. Try not to add to much length, though, because your already slightly too wordy for a 4 option issue.

To a non-American "mom" is too American/incorrect and "mum" is the ONLY correct non-American spelling

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Agree with Aussie, "mom" sounds American.

Trotterdam likely has the best solution: just use "mother".

As for "pram", I admit I'm surprised to hear that's not a common word across the Atlantic. Learned something new today.

[Trotterdam]

Yeah, "mom" is the American and "mum" the British version of the same word. I'm consider them both to be perfectly acceptable and equally informal, contrasting with the more formal "mother" (which is pronounced "muther"...).

[Australian rePublic]

Agree with Aussie, "mom" sounds American.

Trotterdam likely has the best solution: just use "mother".

As for "pram", I admit I'm surprised to hear that's not a common word across the Atlantic. Learned something new today.

Yea, I think they call the strollers. Pram is ppopular here, though

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

OK, here are some changes.

1. I replaced 'mum' with 'mother' and 'dad' with 'father'.
2. 'Pram' became 'stroller.'
3. The last sentence of the description was thrown away
4. I used the first sentence of the father to emphasize his point, namely that he is entitled to the child, because he is the biological father.
5. Trimmed a few words from option 3.

Now I am coming to some unresolved issues.

1. Should the surrogate pay the money back? I really couldn't decide on it. I agree with Trotterdam that she is clearly attached to the baby, she is not just after the money. If she were, wouldn't it be better to just give the baby and enjoy the money? Who wants a baby s/he doesn't actually like? Though I agree that it is a little weird when she keeps the money. Should she offer a refund, or would it be better if she said she wanted to keep the money for the expenses of the child. I think it would be even more hilarious if she wanted to keep the money as the dad's contribution to his child, or claimed that 100,000 @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ were like the father's alimony to her, just paid in one huge bulk instead of in installments. (Yes, it is shameless, but that's the point.)

2. You have to thank Candlewhisper Archive for the ''put baby in a corner'' joke With or without that joke, I'd like to keep Option 3, though. I find my crazy psychologist funny. As for Trotterdam's criticism that the baby cannot have formed an attachment to either parent yet...

Well, we don't know for how long the surrogate has kept the baby, the baby might already be at least a few months old. I am not sure whether this would be enough for an attachment, but still, doesn't it add to the comical effect of the psychologist's suggestion if the baby is indeed too young for this.

On a related note, the preferential looking paradigm is a real thing and is used with infants in psychology experiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_looking

I just don't think anybody has been crazy enough to use it to determine who should be the parent of a child.

A funny twist is that, according to the Wikipedia page, when an infant is habituated to a stimulus and then shown a second stimulus, s/he is going to look at the novel stimulus for longer. So what gets looked at longer is not the familiar stimulus, but the novel one. But the crazy psychologist proposes to use the method to do just the opposite - the child will probably look at the woman who is more unfamiliar to him. (In such an experiment, even a complete stranger could win the custody of the child over an undisputed biological mother) This awkward logic of the experiment may be obvious only to the psychologists, of course, but I still wanted to point that out.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

I would make clear that this issue is suggesting ending all forms of in vitro fertilization and surrogacy to force families to adopt, because otherwise the whole thing comes of as a suggestion for this couple in particular and it's not clear what national policy is being suggested. Actually that maybe something you might want to subtly but emphasis on in 1 and 2 also, that your not just talking about this couple but are making policy for all surrogacy cases. Try not to add to much length, though, because your already slightly too wordy for a 4 option issue.

Oops, you're right, the policy thing. I'll look into it right now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, look at the red parts. They are there to tackle the legislation issue. I didn't add anything to option 3 about that, because the suggestion about the family courts etc. already points out what the state policy will be, I think.

The red part in Option 2 also tackles the question of what should be done with the payment.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

Comments?

[Australian rePublic]

Born to be my baby is the name of a Bon Jovi song. If you're interested, I can post a link to it where you can reference here

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

Born to be my baby is the name of a Bon Jovi song. If you're interested, I can post a link to it where you can reference here

I know it is a Bon Jovi song, that's why I picked it.

I don't know what you mean, are you referring to some copyright issues?

[Australian rePublic]

Born to be my baby is the name of a Bon Jovi song. If you're interested, I can post a link to it where you can reference here

I know it is a Bon Jovi song, that's why I picked it.

I don't know what you mean, are you referring to some copyright issues?

Don't worry

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Don't worry about copyright. Song titles are fine to use, generally.

https://www.thelaw.com/law/are-song-tit ... k-law.317/
http://www.askamusiclawyer.com/archive/ ... right.html

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

Phew! It's a relief to hear that we will at least not face a copyright battle

So any comments on the red parts in the 3rd draft?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Yeah, please never ever use interrobangs.