Point of Order: Nationstates Communist Party

[Letoilenoir]

XanthiumII

Colony of The Black Hawks

Surprise surprise eh?

Heard of The Black Hawks, the Most Feared Military Organisation on NationStates? Well now you have!

The Kingdom of XanthiumII was a long term sleeper in this region, and infiltrated his way into the heart of the natives. He gained maximum influence, enough to instantly password protect the region upon gaining WA delegacy. He was elected WA delegate by the natives, as well as external support from The Union. No one saw this one coming....

Fendas were too dopey to spot who The Kingdom of XanthiumII really was.

This is yet another example of how deadly The Black Hawks are!

For more Information on The Black Hawks check out the TBH forum

And

Messages
The Kingdom of XanthiumII

86 minutes ago

The Black Hawks have claimed this region as a permanent holding. All non Black Hawk nations who enter shall be immediately ejected and banned. Natives not welcome back.

Would the above be grounds for a Liberation- can a refounded region BE liberated?

[Frattastan]

No, a refounded region can't be liberated (founder access to regional controls can't be removed).
If you mean "Liberated with a WA resolution", founder-imposed passwords can't be removed either.

[Halcones]

Indeed. You can't cheat through the Security Council this time. Once we've refounded, you've had it. What you can do is stop us before the refound, by liberating a region with a password in place, that has not yet been refounded. Of course, this was done with a sleeper who had Dominator influence, so the operation was carried out with speed, preventing any cheats through the SC.

[Letoilenoir]

Hats off to you Halcones

You WERE detected, but unfortunately the "defenders"(not the usual ones) were actually taken to be raiders themselves!

Still, glad to see you are going to build on your success!

Such a shame that you had to spoil such a strategic and tactical masterpeice by using the cowards defence and passwording the place though - after all YOU are the founder so what is there to fear eh?

Still, nicely done

[XanthiumII]

Incorrect. The place was only passworded upon gaining delegacy. There is no longer a password on the region, since The Black Hawks have control of the founding nation now.

Thank you for realising our success.

[Bears Armed]

Indeed. You can't cheat through the Security Council this time.

Liberations are a Max-approved part of the game, just like the system for gaining delegacy and the re-founding rules, so if using a Liberation is "cheating" then so are all of the raiders' actions.

[Halcones]

They were added after the game was initially setup, to calm down the moaning fendas. I consider them as cheating whoever approves them. Many things in this game have been changed to make it more difficult for raiders. Yet we continue to adapt to every rule change, to still come out on top.

[Ballotonia]

They were added after the game was initially setup, to calm down the moaning fendas. I consider them as cheating whoever approves them. Many things in this game have been changed to make it more difficult for raiders. Yet we continue to adapt to every rule change, to still come out on top.

Upon gaining the delegacy you passworded the region. Passwords were added AFTER the game was initially set up, so by your own logic you cheated.
Then you ejected all other nations from the region. The eject button was added AFTER the game was initially set up, so by your own logic you cheated.

However, I think it's your logic which is flawed here.

Ballotonia

[Halcones]

For all of the time I have played, both the ability to eject and password have been in this game. They must have been added VERY SOON after the game was setup.

[Ballotonia]

For all of the time I have played, both the ability to eject and password have been in this game. They must have been added VERY SOON after the game was setup.

Depends on ones definition of 'soon', but ok.

You ejected natives from the region without distributing the password. You emptied the region of all natives. You refounded the region to make it your own. When you started playing the game this was all highly illegal, and only after that (April 2006) this became legal. So by your own logic you cheated.

Better?

But, seriously, Admin gets to alter the game. Admin chose to add Liberations to the game, and hence by definition a Liberation resolution can't possibly be cheating. You don't get to pick and choose which changes to the game qualify as 'the real game' and which are to be deemed "cheating".

Ballotonia

[St Mason]

For all of the time I have played, both the ability to eject and password have been in this game. They must have been added VERY SOON after the game was setup.

Depends on ones definition of 'soon', but ok.

You ejected natives from the region without distributing the password. You emptied the region of all natives. You refounded the region to make it your own. When you started playing the game this was all highly illegal, and only after that (April 2006) this became legal. So by your own logic you cheated.

Better?

This is a matter I have fought with MODS and ADMIN for quite awhile. Region Influence as it related to native and new nations. The new WAD rules are severely faulted, my issue related to FEEDER WADS but could easily relate to player regions. (RI failed to abide by the original game rules, and no pen and ink changes were made.)

But don't hold your breath for any change or relief, I was told IT JUST WON'T HAPPEN.

That said I Tip my hat to Halcones for an excellent example of how raids should be handled.

[Halcones]

If I were in a game in which players started to cheat, I would cheat myself, in order to balance the game out. That's because balance is the key, so I prioritise it over everything else.

So if you consider me cheating, then it's because others are cheating.

One wouldn't suggest rule changes half way through a game of Monopoly, would they? Any suggestions for rule changes would come in at the beginning of the next game.... I suppose that can't really be achieved in NS, but one should always look harder at how a rule change may affect different players in a game. Many rule changes so far have seriously disadvantaged raiders, forcing us to adapt. Since passworded regions can now be liberated, we have to plant sleepers to build enough influence whilst undercover, so that when we break cover we can instantly password and refound. Any colonisation operation which does not go via that route would now fail.

[Crazy girl]

Hehe, I remember the time without ejections, passwords and founders. All a Delegate could do was change the WFE.

As for when it was implemented: http://www.nationstates.net/page=news/2 ... index.html

[Evil Wolf]

Lone Wolves United strongly disapproves of this action. We view this as a grief, not a legitimate invasion.

[Halcones]

There is reason for this action against Nationstates Communist Party. They have a history, connecting to LKE.

I quote from the LKE forum,

Many of our longer term citizens will recall an incident in 2007, during the First Great War, when Cavalierana of the RKKA cracked into Lucius I's email, in which the password to Austria-Hungary, then part of The LKE Empire had been sent by Degnia. This password was then passed on by Cavalierana to the NationStates Communist Party, which then colonised Austria-Hungary, a region founded by an LKE member.

The NationStates moderators were kind enough to intervene and send a password reset email to Degnia, thus reasserting LKE control in Austria-Hungary. However, we never had revenge for the NSCP's verminous conduct of the affair until today, when The Black Hawks refounded and colonised the NationStates Communist Party, despite a pathetic attempt by the FRA to stop them. This is a great achievement for them and we congratulate TBH on it. The NSCP as it was will be missed by no one of significance.

Clearly the action is just, EW. I do not see why you don't support it.

[Evil Wolf]

If they really were defender, then your right, its justified and I congratulated you. Both sides entered an unspoken contract when we become Crasher or Defender, we give up our neutrality and our rights to claim innocence.

However, I'm not overly convinced NCP was defender. If they were neutral, its a clear cut case of griefing in the eyes of Lone Wolves United, pure and simple.

[Halcones]

They had defender connections. The slightest defender connection we will fire.

[Kalibarr]

Lone Wolves United strongly disapproves of this action. We view this as a grief, not a legitimate invasion.

This.

Raiding is fun, imperialism isn't.

[Whiskum]

I am posting to affirm LKE support for the action. Whilst NSCP was never an active defender region, it participated in several defences and more significantly, used a password obtaining from cracking an email to take over the founder nation of an LKE colony back in early 2007. I do not know if the current membership was involved, but the region itself was. It is therefore a legitimate target in our view.

[Angels Blood]

Yes, I'm with the emperor on this.

Anyway, all's fair in love and war anyway.