Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United

[Timiskrane]

I mean, defenders not caring about what the native TNP population thinks and just blackmailing the delegate it's kind of how we got into this situation to begin with, innit?

Suddenly raiders care about native populations because it makes defenders look bad

I love how this reads as an implicit admission that no, defenders do not care about TNP's natives, but that it's ok because "no u". Which, looks bad for people claiming to have moral high ground, surely you can realise that?

[Mlakhavia]

none of us have claimed to care about TNP's natives, personally I'm just here laughing at yall for how terrible the statement is

you say this while evil wolf is literally making a statement about "defenders not caring what the native TNP population thinks"

i mean, honestly i commend the defenders on their blatant disregard for regional sovereignty and total lack of respect for the TNP natives. that fucking rocks, natives don't deserve rights. However I don't think that's what you lot are going for, to be honest

[Qvait]

Am I?
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic ... t-10572500
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic ... t-10572743
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic ... t-10572738 (my favorite)
https://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic ... t-10572744

believe it or not, people can disagree with the assertion that hulldom is a traitor while still thinking that TSP did a bad. those two are very much not mutually exclusive.

You're conveniently glossing over the fact that Ghost said "good riddance" to TNP's embassy with LWU.

[Wascoitan]

believe it or not, people can disagree with the assertion that hulldom is a traitor while still thinking that TSP did a bad. those two are very much not mutually exclusive.

You're conveniently glossing over the fact that Ghost said "good riddance" to TNP's embassy with LWU.

that also does not in fact mean ghost thinks that what yall did was good, merely that ghost dislikes LWU, a fact which should shock exactly zero people.

[Francois Isidore]

Seems to me that it's Robes and a handful of people crying about it, hysterically even. Ghost and others seem to disagree. They are more than welcome to correct me if my observations here are wrong.

Shut up, bruv. I just found out that you can curse on the forums (legitimately didn't know that and if I did then I must've forgotten).

Anyhow, had I known that, my posts earlier could've been worded differently. Basically, I'm not under any obligation to support TNP. Why would I support people who are fucking it up? If they'd stop fucking it up, then maybe I'd support them.

Someone (who I still have no idea who they are) asked me earlier why I continue to attack. It's because I'm tired of playing nice and I'm tired of seeing a region that I put so much time into be reduced to this and left out to be publically mocked.

I'm no more pro-TNP at the moment than I am anti-Hulldom's leadership. As far as I'm concerned, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

[Orcuo]

So, I guess this is the beginning of the TSP Vs TNP Cold War.

This is gonna be fun.

[Evil Wolf]

Suddenly raiders care about native populations because it makes defenders look bad

I have a bit more of a personal and unique relationship with TNP than most raiders, having been delegate of the region three times.

TNP had always struggled with keeping defenders from attempting to hijack their region. It's nothing particularly new, although it's sad to see my old home have to constantly fight off foreign defender influencers who only care to use The North Pacific for their own means.

[Qvait]

You're conveniently glossing over the fact that Ghost said "good riddance" to TNP's embassy with LWU.

that also does not in fact mean ghost thinks that what yall did was good, merely that ghost dislikes LWU, a fact which should shock exactly zero people.

Well, then it should shock zero people about Wym's ideology-driven agenda against defenders and his resignation carrying zero weight.

[Desperation]

O.o

As much as I love being outraged at stuff, telling someone you would be willing to vote a way they want on one issue, if they vote a way you want on another issue is not a threat. It's a potential deal. Accepting the deal is not backing down in the face of pressure, it is making a priority call on if you care more about what you are getting than giving up.

Closing an embassy over a vote is also not a threat, but closer to a threat than just offering X for Y.

I think the primary issue is that TNP and LWU don't believe it was a mutual decision for TNP & defenders to stop collaboration, but rather defenders said they'd vote against upcoming TNP commends if TNP didn't vote against the condemn. In other words, not saying "we may decide to not auto-vote for your stuff and we may consider other factors" but rather "we will explicitly fail your stuff for the sole reason of you not listening to us"

Deciding not to mutually cooperate in the WA isn't a bad thing for allies ig. But telling an ally you'll Oppose all their actions if they don't help you will your goals... doesn't really sound like friendship. Which is why it probably looks bad on some of the defenders' parts, the region's with relationships with TNP.

IG there is no way to truly know how the conversation was specifically phrased without direct logs (assuming ine thinks Hulldom misread the situation or overreacted), and it seems the devil is in the details.

But I will say that if LWU and TNP are right on this, then its highly, highly disappointing behavior from TSP and TL. So I'm hoping they aren't, because that reality would suck.

[Wascoitan]

that also does not in fact mean ghost thinks that what yall did was good, merely that ghost dislikes LWU, a fact which should shock exactly zero people.

Well, then it should shock zero people about Wym's ideology-driven agenda against defenders and his resignation carrying zero weight.

oooo, good pivot, seeing that you're losing on one front then switching to another. unfortunately you continue to repeat the idea that wym resigning had anything to do with my overall point. What wym's ideological inclinations are is irrelevant, though speaking personally as a raider I haven't really viewed him as an ally in quite some time so I'm not really sure what you're on about there anyways. the point is that many in TNP interpreted what yall did as blackmail. (and if you want some examples that aren't him how about madjack who said "As for this incident, all I will say right now that for supposed allies, the Prime Minister/Foreign Minister of The South Pacific has not acted in good faith, has not spoken in the tones that allies speak to each other, has not demonstrated they even understand how to work co-operatively with allies except to browbeat them into submission.")

[La Xinga]

So, I guess this is the beginning of the TSP Vs TNP Cold War.

This is gonna be fun.

I thought TSP's on TNP's side against LWU?

Our relationships with The North Pacific have been particularly strengthened by military and political cooperation following the repeated attacks on their allies Stargate and Equilism by The Brotherhood of Malice, the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom.

[Qvait]

Seems to me that it's Robes and a handful of people crying about it, hysterically even. Ghost and others seem to disagree. They are more than welcome to correct me if my observations here are wrong.

Shut up, bruv. I just found out that you can curse on the forums (legitimately didn't know that and if I did then I must've forgotten).

Anyhow, had I known that, my posts earlier could've been worded differently. Basically, I'm not under any obligation to support TNP. Why would I support people who are fucking it up? If they'd stop fucking it up, then maybe I'd support them.

Someone (who I still have no idea who they are) asked me earlier why I continue to attack. It's because I'm tired of playing nice and I'm tired of seeing a region that I put so much time into be reduced to this and left out to be publically mocked.

I'm no more pro-TNP at the moment than I am anti-Hulldom's leadership. As far as I'm concerned, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

That's fun. I was tired of playing nice a long time ago too, so excuse me if I am equally animated by the bullshit being lobbed against my region by a hostile force that cares little about my region or its relationship with yours.

[Kranostav]

O.o

As much as I love being outraged at stuff, telling someone you would be willing to vote a way they want on one issue, if they vote a way you want on another issue is not a threat. It's a potential deal. Accepting the deal is not backing down in the face of pressure, it is making a priority call on if you care more about what you are getting than giving up.

Closing an embassy over a vote is also not a threat, but closer to a threat than just offering X for Y.

I think we can ask in very clear terms:

Did TSP, XKI, TL, and TGW ever threaten to vote against proposals TNP supports to commend or condemn TNP members if they didn't get what they wanted here? If yes, That would be the textbook definition of extortion.

[Orcuo]

So, I guess this is the beginning of the TSP Vs TNP Cold War.

This is gonna be fun.

I thought TSP's on TNP's side against LWU?

Our relationships with The North Pacific have been particularly strengthened by military and political cooperation following the repeated attacks on their allies Stargate and Equilism by The Brotherhood of Malice, the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom.

Honestly, I have no clue.

Imma just gonna call this “NSMultiverse Cold War.”

[Lord Dominator]

The Brotherhood of Malice, the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom.

Don’t know why the fact that Malice also exists and our collective regions rather dislike them, when literally no one has indicated Malice to be remotely involved in this.

Lone Wolves United represents a direct threat to the sovereignty of all of our regions. LWU was recently at war with both 10000 Islands and The League, both times due to acts of unprovoked aggression with the war only easing due to a decision by defenders to ease up on conflict.

I notice you all leave out who exactly declared war first/at all.

[Evil Wolf]

That's fun. I was tired of playing nice a long time ago too, so excuse me if I am equally animated by the bullshit being lobbed against my region by a hostile force that cares little about my region or its relationship with yours.

I mean, it's no secret that LWU very much doesn't like TSP (coup TSP, by the way), but that's no reason to take it out on TNP.

[Mindhart]

Why don't we just... not fight?

[Valtarre]

Our relationships with The North Pacific have been particularly strengthened by military and political cooperation following the repeated attacks on their allies Stargate and Equilism by The Brotherhood of Malice, the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom.

Now isn't this just delectable? Oh, how splendid it is indeed to be the nightmare you see behind your eyelids, to star so prominently in this statement that really did not need to mention us at all -- it truly is an honor. It makes one wonder why you save this sort of flattery for now, after spending the last year trying to minimize and erase our legacy.

It couldn't be because you desperately need to paint yourselves as the necessary evil with whom the North needs to re-forge their strong ties, whatever the cost? To justify your continued exploitation of the largest region in the game, you try to sell them on fearing my dear Brotherhood, which had nothing to do with this debacle of your own creation. Having seen how you treat your lapdogs, I'd be thinking twice if I were a partner of the regions that signed this statement.

Oh, and to be clear, my Brotherhood is not "the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom." Evidently, unlike defenders, we treat our partners in crime with respect and humility, and are fair in our dealings with our friends who do not share our interests on the field of battle. For all the attempted slander about our association's foreign affairs, I'm hardly interested in hearing any more of it from the authors of this statement, who only seem interested in deflecting responsibility for their actions onto their ideological opponents...involved or otherwise.

[Reploid Productions]

Reminder folks, while tempers are expected to get heated, let's avoid letting your tempers get away from you. Y'all can argue about what happened without the jabs at one another's intelligence or locations of their heads. I'd rather not have to set aside my bucket of popcorn to pick up the banhammer.

[Orcuo]

Reminder folks, while tempers are expected to get heated, let's avoid letting your tempers get away from you. Y'all can argue about what happened without the jabs at one another's intelligence or locations of their heads. I'd rather not have to set aside my bucket of popcorn to pick up the banhammer.

Oooh, can you share some of your popcorn?

[New Temecula]

Reminder folks, while tempers are expected to get heated, let's avoid letting your tempers get away from you. Y'all can argue about what happened without the jabs at one another's intelligence or locations of their heads. I'd rather not have to set aside my bucket of popcorn to pick up the banhammer.

Oooh, can you share some of your popcorn?

Not if he needs to get the banhammer

[WayNeacTia]

Why admit to to something, when you can just deny it and release a word salad composed solely of bullshit?

[Petroli]

What the hell even are the allegations?

[Galactic Powers]

What the hell even are the allegations?

Read the LWU thread, page 11.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=510102&start=250

[Qvait]

What the hell even are the allegations?

White noise