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Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United

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Sporaltryus
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Founded: Jun 01, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United

Postby Sporaltryus » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:07 pm

Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United


The South Pacific, 10000 Islands, The Order of the Grey Wardens, and The League & Concord are united in their commitment to advancing defender principles militarily and politically, a partnership where we have long enjoyed the substantial cooperation of The North Pacific on. Indeed, The North Pacific is the oldest ally of the South Pacific, a relationship which has been strongest during periods of open communication and cooperation on shared political objectives.

Despite this long shared history, recent events had led those named in the statement by Lone Wolves United to believe our substantial cooperative relationship with The North Pacific was in danger. Our relationships with The North Pacific have been particularly strengthened by military and political cooperation following the repeated attacks on their allies Stargate and Equilism by The Brotherhood of Malice, the leading organization in contemporary raiderdom. Despite this overwhelming alignment of interests, we had experienced a pattern of unreliable communication from The North Pacific during Delegate Hulldom’s administration, which made us doubt the reliability of Hulldom’s intent in pursuing these mutual interests. This uncertainty was especially present in the context of The North Pacific’s efforts to combat The Brotherhood of Malice when they were cooperating with Lone Wolves United. A clear example of this is when the North Pacific Army withdrew from a liberation operation to which it had previously committed after the major update of March 12. The North Pacific's then-Minister of Defense notified us and deferred our inquiries to Hulldom. Hulldom justified defaulting on this explicit prior commitment, which was given to the leader of one of our regions, with a complaint surrounding a conversation that he did not actually review before choosing to withdraw from the operation. Thankfully, this decision was also later reversed and the NPA rejoined the operation, but this incident became a clear example of the unreliable communication we had become accustomed to from The North Pacific's Delegate at the time. From our perspective, a pattern had emerged where support for The North Pacific’s actions was taken for granted, all while The North Pacific’s then-administration reveled in engaging in haphazard and wavering communication at our expense. This set the context for our approach to The North Pacific regarding WA cooperation.

Lone Wolves United represents a direct threat to the sovereignty of all of our regions. LWU was recently at war with both 10000 Islands and The League, both times due to acts of unprovoked aggression with the war only easing due to a decision by defenders to ease up on conflict. Lone Wolves United’s leadership has also repeatedly voiced support for a coup of the South Pacific and the organization has directly antagonized the allies of multiple regions involved in this statement. As a result, when one of our regions reached out to The North Pacific to ask their intended position on the resolution “Condemn Chef Big Dog”, a self-congratulatory condemnation-in-name-only by the leader of LWU for his deputy, we hoped we would be in lockstep in our opposition to the proposal, especially given The North Pacific’s opposition to The Brotherhood. Unfortunately, we learned The North Pacific was planning to abstain on the proposal, a decision which would all but assure the resolution would pass, being hugely damaging to our collective interests.

The governments of the South Pacific, 10000 Islands, The Order of the Grey Wardens, and The League & Concord all agreed that our informal understanding with TNP that we will vote for commendations of their regional members is directly tied to other forms of SC cooperation, including SC cooperation against the agenda of LWU. We informed TNP that if we weren’t able to cooperate on this key agenda item, we’d be unable to cooperate on other parts of their SC agenda. Expressing the bounds of mutual cooperation is not a threat against The North Pacific, rather it was an honest communication about the scope of our possible cooperation given the actions that Delegate Hulldom had communicated and Delegate Hulldom initially agreed to vote against Condemn Chef Big Dog on March 25. Our hope was that this would open an honest dialogue with The North Pacific’s leadership about their goals and objectives so we could identify what areas were viable for continued cooperation, while recognizing that the underlying security commitments some of us have with The North Pacific are eternally intact. Despite our effort to reach out, initiate discussion, and clearly outline our goals and objectives, The North Pacific’s current leadership reversed course when, on March 27, Minister Wymondham contacted us to say The North Pacific may revise its decision, and then on March 30 we learned that TNP intended to default on their previous commitment to us, followed by re-committing on April 4. Moreover, Hulldom and Wymondham were haphazard and inconsistent in their communication, which needlessly escalated matters, and reflected our previous concerns with their actions.

We reject the characterization that our regions have engaged in threats towards The North Pacific and believe that Lone Wolves United issued this statement in order to drive a false wedge between our regions and The North Pacific, some of whom have been allied for over a decade, all while washing its hands of the situation. This statement is fundamentally LWU lashing out at TNP for failing to reach a decision favorable to them, further evidenced by an attempted stomping of Commend MadJack by a variety of LWU-aligned regions. While our respective governments may have had disagreements with some of the decisions made by former-Delegate Hulldom, we always opted to find ways to keep avenues for cooperation open rather than publicly lash out and admonish their current government, which is the clear purpose of LWU’s release. Indeed, our regions all voted for the proposal at our earliest convenience out of support for TNP once we knew an agreement had been made. Beyond this, all of our regions have continued to fundamentally support TNP’s sovereignty and that of its treatied allies, something which cannot be said for friends of Lone Wolves United. Despite an ill-justified narrative that LWU is a more palatable or better alternative to other organizations in raiding, they have continued to act in lockstep with the organizations mentioned previously in this statement, either by direct military collaboration or tactic support and tolerance, including when it comes to raider attacks against TNP’s treatied allies and most direct material interests.

Moving forward, we all want to have a fruitful and collective partnership with The North Pacific, however it will require open and honest communication. We will each seek to open bilateral dialogues with the new government of The North Pacific on each of our agendas and priorities going forward to prevent miscommunications and clarify the scope of mutually beneficial cooperation we may have with The North Pacific. At the root of this event was a set of escalatory miscommunications by the now-former leadership of The North Pacific, which we now have the opportunity to prevent in the future by opening a clear dialogue and line of communication with their successors.

Signed,
Sporaltryus, Prime Minister of the South Pacific
HumanSanity, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the South Pacific

Lenlyvit, WA Delegate of 10000 Islands

Grea Kriopia, First Warden of The Order of the Grey Wardens

Creeperopolis, Chief Consul of The League & Concord
Quebecshire, Consul of The League & Concord
Spode Humbled Minions, Consul of The League & Concord
New San Antonio, Director of Foreign Affairs of The League & Concord
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Notanam
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Notanam » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:16 pm

Perhaps this was supposed to be posted in NS Sports? Some of the most impressive mental gymnastics I've ever seen.

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MANS0N
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Anarchy

Postby MANS0N » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:19 pm

awful cop-out.

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Mlakhavia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mlakhavia » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:21 pm

lol

/thread
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/ Independent of the Year 2023 / Air Marshal of the People's Revolutionary Air Force / Terror of Trinidad /

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[iota] — «being british is fine when you do it»
[nota] — «you embody the spirit of what i enjoy in raiding»
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Wascoitan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Wascoitan » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:22 pm

Sporaltryus wrote:
Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United


-snip-
The governments of the South Pacific, 10000 Islands, The Order of the Grey Wardens, and The League & Concord all agreed that our informal understanding with TNP that we will vote for commendations of their regional members is directly tied to other forms of SC cooperation, including SC cooperation against the agenda of LWU. We informed TNP that if we weren’t able to cooperate on this key agenda item, we’d be unable to cooperate on other parts of their SC agenda.

-snip-

so tl;dr you did exactly what LWU claimed you did but you want us to frame it in a way that paints youse all in good light? come on, there's got to have been a better spin than that, yall are slacking :p
Addison Vytherov
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Bobberino
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Father Knows Best State

Response to Allegations by Lone Wolves United

Postby Bobberino » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:30 pm

Someone needs to take a spin class. This ain’t it.
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Timiskrane
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Timiskrane » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:31 pm

This is basically a lot of words to say "We absolutely did what LWU says we did, we see no reason why it would be wrong to do so, and intend to continue doing it in the future". Good to know.
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The Universe World
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Universe World » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:32 pm

What a nice way of writing “we did everything we were accused of and are shameless.”
Absolutely disgusting. I’d like to know who the ghostwriter is for this pile of excusing, cookie cutter garbage. And I sincerely hope this is a wake-up call as to the corrosive force slowly taking over gameplay, of horrifically severe partisanship.
I am disgusted by the regions and people involved in this on an IC level, but I am not surprised.
This did nothing but state that what LWU said happened but it was wrote in a nicer way. If your PR team had the slightest bit of tact they’d at least have tried to deny anything or apologize for anything. Alas, we got the worst statement so far this year.
SAD!
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:33 pm

That's definitely one of the statements of all time.

Glad you can agree with Hulldom's resignation post that raiders are the true root of all evil, even while throwing Hulldom under the bus.
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New Astri
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Astri » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:35 pm

trying to read this but the thread starting off with 'allegations' is making me laugh too hard to start reading. [guy who was caught on video committing a crime standing on trial for the crime voice] 'i would like to respond to the crime allegations...'

ok ok let's see. bravely pushing on to read this

update: read it, i am so glad the league did tcb the favor of cutting that treaty with us a while ago. bullet dodged. my favorite part of this is the bit where you somehow make this raiders' fault
the communist bloc's silliest little hegemon

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Qvait
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:40 pm

The defenders did nothing wrong. Change my mind.
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Mlakhavia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mlakhavia » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:41 pm

Qvait wrote:The defenders did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

if your head's so fucking deep in that particular sandpit i don't think even a hydraulic pulley is getting you out. have fun living in the topsy-turvy world you inhabit. it must be quite the experience
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/ Independent of the Year 2023 / Air Marshal of the People's Revolutionary Air Force / Terror of Trinidad /

Perfidious trickster beloved by all*, legitimate Delegate of Warzone Trinidad, &c. 'Tyrant', 'unhinged', 'Misley 2', 'fucking annoying', 'a genuinely terrible person'
She / Her


[iota] — «being british is fine when you do it»
[nota] — «you embody the spirit of what i enjoy in raiding»
[wasc] — «Sleet is an amazing person, do not follow in her footsteps»

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New Temecula
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Democratic Socialists

Postby New Temecula » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:43 pm

Qvait wrote:The defenders did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

Shut up...
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New Astri
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Astri » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:43 pm

this is like. this is KILLING me im sorry this is what the phrase 'a comedy of errors' was invented for thsi is the PR equivalent of propping up a stepladder climbing 2 the top clicking on your megaphone and going I DID IT, AND I DON'T FEEL BAD ABOUT IT, EITHER! you EVEN managed to cram in a "actually, it's raiderdom's fault that we got caught redhanded blackmailing people for SC votes so we can continue handing around empty self-aggrandizing backpat commends." this is the 'congrats little buddy thats the worst anyones ever done it' of gp spinposting
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Francois Isidore
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Francois Isidore » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:43 pm

Defenders are letting the mask slip. Only time will tell when they finally get tired of holding up the mask and sever ties to having the illusion of a moral high ground altogether.
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Qvait
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:44 pm

Mlakhavia wrote:
Qvait wrote:The defenders did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

if your head's so fucking deep in that particular sandpit i don't think even a hydraulic pulley is getting you out. have fun living in the topsy-turvy world you inhabit. it must be quite the experience

LWU is a hostile force to my region and her allies, so I couldn't give much of a shit about what they allege.
Em

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Mlakhavia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mlakhavia » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:45 pm

Qvait wrote:
Mlakhavia wrote:if your head's so fucking deep in that particular sandpit i don't think even a hydraulic pulley is getting you out. have fun living in the topsy-turvy world you inhabit. it must be quite the experience

LWU is a hostile force to my region and her allies, so I couldn't give much of a shit about what they allege.

you do realise that objection to Basic Fact because you don't like the Source of said Fact is the definition of your head being in the Fucking Sandpit. do you understand this
PRAF
THROUGH RED SKIES // TO GREEN FIELDS
Fight the Right: Join the PRAF!
Leningrad Airfield: Ruling the skies since 2021.
Leftist Reading Resources
Come to the Communist Bloc: NationStates' largest leftist region! ★



/ Independent of the Year 2023 / Air Marshal of the People's Revolutionary Air Force / Terror of Trinidad /

Perfidious trickster beloved by all*, legitimate Delegate of Warzone Trinidad, &c. 'Tyrant', 'unhinged', 'Misley 2', 'fucking annoying', 'a genuinely terrible person'
She / Her


[iota] — «being british is fine when you do it»
[nota] — «you embody the spirit of what i enjoy in raiding»
[wasc] — «Sleet is an amazing person, do not follow in her footsteps»

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Wascoitan
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Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Wascoitan » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:46 pm

Qvait wrote:
Mlakhavia wrote:if your head's so fucking deep in that particular sandpit i don't think even a hydraulic pulley is getting you out. have fun living in the topsy-turvy world you inhabit. it must be quite the experience

LWU is a hostile force to my region and her allies, so I couldn't give much of a shit about what they allege.

it's not just an allegation if your region just straight up admitted to doing it lmao. come on Qvait, take a little bit of time to yourself and go back to the drawing board on this agenda post, you can do better than this, I believe in you.
Addison Vytherov
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I am she who handles salmon under suspicious circumstances
"if wasc think I'll ever take her seriously then uh" - kava
"i still can't believe addi doesn't like inftr's animation style. shameful" - iota
"I think it’s just because you’re so scary" - Phoebe
"I fear u" - qekitor
"you aren't a shitass" - Koth

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Qvait
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Founded: Mar 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:47 pm

Mlakhavia wrote:
Qvait wrote:LWU is a hostile force to my region and her allies, so I couldn't give much of a shit about what they allege.

you do realise that objection to Basic Fact because you don't like the Source of said Fact is the definition of your head being in the Fucking Sandpit. do you understand this

I understand that their statements should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, LWU has nothing to lose in causing a rift between TNP and TSP.
Em

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Qvait
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Founded: Mar 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:48 pm

Wascoitan wrote:
Qvait wrote:LWU is a hostile force to my region and her allies, so I couldn't give much of a shit about what they allege.

it's not just an allegation if your region just straight up admitted to doing it lmao. come on Qvait, take a little bit of time to yourself and go back to the drawing board on this agenda post, you can do better than this, I believe in you.

Framing matters, and LWU decided to frame it like it was blackmail.
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Mlakhavia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 629
Founded: Mar 31, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Mlakhavia » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:48 pm

Qvait wrote:
Mlakhavia wrote:you do realise that objection to Basic Fact because you don't like the Source of said Fact is the definition of your head being in the Fucking Sandpit. do you understand this

I understand that their statements should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, LWU has nothing to lose in causing a rift between TNP and TSP.

your head also appears to be so far in the sand that you are not listening to the garbage statement that quite directly admits that they Did what LWU accused them of Doing. can you even hear anyone anymore
PRAF
THROUGH RED SKIES // TO GREEN FIELDS
Fight the Right: Join the PRAF!
Leningrad Airfield: Ruling the skies since 2021.
Leftist Reading Resources
Come to the Communist Bloc: NationStates' largest leftist region! ★



/ Independent of the Year 2023 / Air Marshal of the People's Revolutionary Air Force / Terror of Trinidad /

Perfidious trickster beloved by all*, legitimate Delegate of Warzone Trinidad, &c. 'Tyrant', 'unhinged', 'Misley 2', 'fucking annoying', 'a genuinely terrible person'
She / Her


[iota] — «being british is fine when you do it»
[nota] — «you embody the spirit of what i enjoy in raiding»
[wasc] — «Sleet is an amazing person, do not follow in her footsteps»

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Kranostav
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Posts: 423
Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:50 pm

Openly admitting to extorting TNP over SC votes, and then saying 'but it's not actually like that' is an incredibly bold strategy.

Interested to see how this one plays out for you.
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Scholomance
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 26, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Scholomance » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:50 pm

Qvait wrote:The defenders did nothing wrong. Change my mind.

Impossible to change the mind of someone who believes defenders can do no wrong.

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Wascoitan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: Jul 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Wascoitan » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:51 pm

Qvait wrote:
Wascoitan wrote:it's not just an allegation if your region just straight up admitted to doing it lmao. come on Qvait, take a little bit of time to yourself and go back to the drawing board on this agenda post, you can do better than this, I believe in you.

Framing matters, and LWU decided to frame it like it was blackmail.

seems accurate, this statement doesn't really do much to dispute that it was blackmail beyond "uhhhh no it's not lol" and at least some folk in TNP clearly interpreted it as blackmail considering wym resigned and called it bowing to blackmail. so if the person you're blackmailing and an outside source both say something is blackmail and the only people disputing that it is blackmail are the people doing the blackmailing, seems kind of likely that it is, in fact, blackmail.
Addison Vytherov
she/her
I am she who handles salmon under suspicious circumstances
"if wasc think I'll ever take her seriously then uh" - kava
"i still can't believe addi doesn't like inftr's animation style. shameful" - iota
"I think it’s just because you’re so scary" - Phoebe
"I fear u" - qekitor
"you aren't a shitass" - Koth

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Orcuo
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Founded: Dec 15, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Orcuo » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:51 pm

Yeah it’s safe to say this blew up in the TSP Government’s face. Welp, enjoy the political turmoil!
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