the problem with communism and the Pacific regions

[The Church of Satan]

Here's the thing: the game needed regions where new players spawn. That's a fact.

Under my suggestion there would still be regions where new players spawn, more inclusive to everyone regardless of their political leaning, and security wouldn't be a problem since if someone pulls a coup, the delegate and his backers can't be ejected. To clarify, under my suggestion Region-Wide Telegrams would still be possible, so a delegate can notify the region members if there's something going on.

The West Pacific (as well as other regions) advise people to block recruitment telegrams because for exactly as long as recruitment telegrams have existed, players have complained about their inboxes being flooded with recruitment telegrams. Every new player eventually asks how to block them. Usually sooner rather than later. That's a fact.

"Every new player", I doubt that, telegrams are easy to ignore, you don't have to read them and they soon cease anyway. Thing is some players may be suited to stay in a pacific region and be one among thousands, being invisible with nobody paying attention to them, others are suited for smaller regions where they are noticed, where they can make a difference. I can understand a PS but making it step 1 seems like an abuse of authority for me, gullible players missing out on offers and turning into those apathetic issue responders or quitting the game instead taking an active role in other regions.

None of the feeders are communist though. In fact, allow me to give you the rundown of their various governments:

The North Pacific: Democracy
The South Pacific: Democracy
The East Pacific: Democracy
The West Pacific: Oligarchy
The Pacific: Meritocracy

The fact that their militaries participated in a raid with communist region's militaries doesn't make them communists as well.

As for your disbelief regarding recruitment telegrams, it's certainly close enough to 100%. I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years now and in that time I've seen/done a lot in a fair number of regions. I know what I'm talking about here. You're new and you don't quite have an understanding of how things work, so here's some wisdom from someone with experience: pay attention to what those who came before you say. We know the ropes pretty well (we're not presumptuous in saying so) and you could benefit from our knowledge.

The fact that RMBs are no longer littered with posts of people asking how they can stop all the recruitment telegrams from cluttering their inbox (which has a maximum capacity of 20 telegrams if you don't pay a few bucks) is because the process has been streamlined to an informative dispatch and/or "Welcome" telegram that politely tells them before they try to ask. People complaining about the influx of recruitment telegrams used to be much more widespread. I'm fairly certain that even I asked how to stop them when I first started playing.

[AfterTheFall]

yes, there's a 20 telegram cap, but as I said, it can be ignored. I got notification that excess telegrams would be deleted after I log out and they did (copied them in a .txt file btw), it's not like if I have 20 I can no longer receive new ones.

None of the feeders are communist though. In fact, allow me to give you the rundown of their various governments:

The North Pacific: Democracy
The South Pacific: Democracy
The East Pacific: Democracy
The West Pacific: Oligarchy
The Pacific: Meritocracy

The fact that their militaries participated in a raid with communist region's militaries doesn't make them communists as well.

They CAN be communists or extremists of other kind, they CAN commit abuses of power, it's not only what they did/what they are doing but what they can do. Under my suggestion every single Pacific region would be a pure inclusive democracy.

[The Church of Satan]

yes, there's a 20 telegram cap, but as I said, it can be ignored. I got notification that excess telegrams would be deleted after I log out and they did (copied them in a .txt file btw), it's not like if I have 20 I can no longer receive new ones.

None of the feeders are communist though. In fact, allow me to give you the rundown of their various governments:

The North Pacific: Democracy
The South Pacific: Democracy
The East Pacific: Democracy
The West Pacific: Oligarchy
The Pacific: Meritocracy

The fact that their militaries participated in a raid with communist region's militaries doesn't make them communists as well.

They CAN be communists or extremists of other kind, they CAN commit abuses of power, it's not only what they did/what they are doing but what they can do. Under my suggestion every single Pacific region would be a pure inclusive democracy.

The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions.

[ImperialRussia]

No equity is being hoarded for expansion through war and blood for the fairness of those in control and thrive on top on existence. Soon they’ll be understand natural selection will be the fate of their ideology.

[AfterTheFall]

The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions.

If they were ordinary regions, then I indeed would have no place to question their politics, nations that agree with those politics can join them, those who don't don't. But they aren't, they are regions with special status, WA delegates of those regions have way too much power granted by the game, and they're acting as if they can do whatever they want with that power.

[The Church of Satan]

No equity is being hoarded for expansion through war and blood for the fairness of those in control and thrive on top on existence. Soon they’ll be understand natural selection will be the fate of their ideology.

Again, communism is not an ideology the feeder regions use as their guide. It's just not happening. I'm familiar enough with their communities to know this. I have been for years.

The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions.

If they were ordinary regions, then I indeed would have no place to question their politics, nations that agree with those politics can join them, those who don't don't. But they aren't, they are regions with special status, WA delegates of those regions have way too much power granted by the game, and they're acting as if they can do whatever they want with that power.

Frankly, they can do whatever they want with the power they've cultivated over the years, subject to both domestic law and interregional policy. They have diplomatic agreements, political opposition, and ideological differences between themselves like any other region. The fact that you've used just one instance of interregional cooperation as the basis for your entire position just shows your inexperience. I can't say you'd get very far with your ironically communist perspective of how you wish to deal with them, but you're more than capable of gaining citizenship in any of those regions and trying to bring about some manner of change.

As I said before, it's not your place to dictate how they run their regions. The fact that they are feeder regions is irrelevant to this undeniable fact. They have the sovereign right to run themselves in any manner they see fit. You don't have to like it, but the fact of the matter is that if their sovereignty doesn't matter, then nobody else's does either. If you had any understanding whatsoever of the feeder regions varied cultures and political structures, your position would be fundamentally different from what it is now. Instead, however, you made a snap judgement based on an interregional military operation of one region, and in doing so you made an entirely incorrect assessment of the feeders. I encourage you to explore these regions and genuinely learn about them before you cement your position on these regions.

[Onionist Randosia]

They CAN be communists or extremists of other kind, they CAN commit abuses of power, it's not only what they did/what they are doing but what they can do. Under my suggestion every single Pacific region would be a pure inclusive democracy.

Yes, they hypothetically could, but the

WA delegates of those regions have way too much power granted by the game, and they're acting as if they can do whatever they want with that power.

'too much power' in question (read: endorsement numbers of 500+) make it virtually impossible for a hypothetical extremist force to take over such a region, and even if they did, most of the Pacifics have more than enough allies that they would probably be able to remove said extremist force. There hasn't been a coup of a Pacific region for I think like at least five years, so there isn't likely to be one anytime soon.

[Untecna]

Alternate thread title: "New user confused about how game mechanics are not related to user ideology"

[Jar Wattinree]

There hasn't been a coup of a Pacific region for I think like at least five years, so there isn't likely to be one anytime soon.

Four, but the Fedele coup of TEP (2019) wasn’t really a coup it just got quashed really fast.

[WayNeacTia]

Alternate thread title: "New user confused about how game mechanics are not related to user ideology"

"Deleted user gets his region raided, thus goes on rant about communism".......

[Vavlar]

COTW was founded by an obvious fascist, who made impersonation puppets of me. He slipped up for about a month, and then I found more impersonation puppets of me, and I submitted a GHR. Frostland got deat'd but not all their puppets, and then ANTIFA jumped into the region during update, leading to the current fash bash in COTW. However, TCB and TP having embassies with eachother is something they decided to do.

[Quebecshire]

However, TCB and TP having embassies with eachother is something they decided to do.

They had a treaty, which NPO killed quietly in May 2022. Kind of surprised the embassy is still there.

[Supreme Algerstonia]

yeah i think he's right

[Varanius]

Under my suggestion every single Pacific region would be a pure inclusive democracy.

But you see, all of the Pacific regions are pure democracies. Each and every one of us has elections twice a day, every day, and there’s nothing we can do about it. We can’t stop it, or lie about the result, or anything of the sort. It is the purest form of democracy, the results are objective and impartial.

They'll never give up their power willingly, but will gladly crush anyone that tries to take it from them.

You’re always free to stop by. Though I hear you still owe the NPO a visit first. Speaking of your conversations with the New Pacific Order, how is DN going?

…they're acting as if they can do whatever they want with that power.

Ah but you see, that’s the fun part: we can! And there’s nothing you can do about it. Take care, and careful inhaling all this salt, it’s bad for your health.

[The Second Order of Life]

Every time I see someone complaining about the commies in any way, shape or form, I always think of Q.

All it takes are a few good men!

[AfterTheFall]

it's just one random example, yesterday's featured region, https://www.nationstates.net/region=cities_of_the_world and that one example is telling a lot.
"Invaded: 01/30/2023
This Nazi/Fash bash brought to you by:
- The Pacific
- The West Pacific
- The North Pacific
- The Order of the Grey Wardens
- The League
- Europeia
- The Black Hawks
- The Communist Bloc
- Lone Wolves United
- Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army
- Various mercenaries!"
another aspect that eluded me, the_order_of_the_grey_wardens calls itself "an order of warriors of exceptional ability dedicated to fighting invaders throughout NationStates", the_league has a defender tag, not invader, the_black_hawks is an invader, calls itself "the Most Feared Military Organisation in NationStates", lone_wolves_united calls itself "the oldest, most accomplished active invader region in NationStates, with over 17 years of uninterrupted hell raising".
so Pacific regions along with "an order of warriors of exceptional ability dedicated to fighting invaders throughout NationStates" are invading regions along with "the Most Feared Military Organisation in NationStates" and "the oldest, most accomplished active invader region in NationStates", it's laughable.
another example I found (easy to find with a google search since they like to gloat):
https://www.nationstates.net/region=sanctum
"The valiant regions which opposed the vile community of Sanctum were:
The Gay Agenda
The North Pacific
The Pacific
The East Pacific
The South Pacific
The West Pacific
The Black Hawks
The Order of the Grey Wardens
Balder
Europeia
Karma
Lone Wolves United
Mariner Trench
Thaecia
The Communist Bloc
The League
Osiris
The Free Nations Region
And other wonderful people!"

[The Church of Satan]

-snip-

Sooo, opposing fascism is inherently communist? Is that the point you're making? Because otherwise, your point isn't exactly clear. And if that is your point, it's quite a stretch at the best of times.

Militaries from every faction of NationStates Gameplay came together with the commonality being that they all like freedom and peace. To oppose a region whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values. This is not difficult to understand. There are only two communist regions on that list at most.

And trust me when I say you have no idea why Sanctum was raided. There's a lot involved there that you arent even aware of. Stuff we aren't really allowed to talk about on this website.

[The Second Order of Life]

Stuff we aren't really allowed to talk about on this website.

Is it bad that I laughed at this? Sometimes I just can't help but think that all of this sounds kinda absurd/overblown, as most things in the gameplay side of NS seem to be.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

This is sad.

Everyone turning up to those operations is turning up voluntarily. All of those regions are turning up voluntarily. Anti fascist operations are almost universally supported in every single one of those regions. There's no organised opposition to it in the game, because the group of players who self identify as potential targets are so tiny they don't register on the battlefield, and don't have the basic social skills required to either build their numbers or pool their existing resources. You're asking a bunch of nonsense questions about game fairness based on a delusional belief that there's a large group of right wing regions being suppressed by game mechanics, instead of asking the question you actually need to ask- "why is everyone who participates in gameplay so willing to stomp on regions viewed as being far right or fascist?"

[AfterTheFall]

Sooo, opposing fascism is inherently communist? Is that the point you're making? Because otherwise, your point isn't exactly clear. And if that is your point, it's quite a stretch at the best of times.

Militaries from every faction of NationStates Gameplay came together with the commonality being that they all like freedom and peace. To oppose a region whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values. This is not difficult to understand. There are only two communist regions on that list at most.

And trust me when I say you have no idea why Sanctum was raided. There's a lot involved there that you arent even aware of. Stuff we aren't really allowed to talk about on this website.

my point was very clear, pacific regions (which have a lot of power given by the game system, creating an imbalance of power), invader regions, defender regions and communist regions are working together to invade other regions. That's it, I wouldn't invade a communist region along with fascists under any circumstances, because I don't want to associate myself with them, pacifics and defenders have no problem with associating themselves with communists and invaders.
Edit: there are these condemnations, "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52", "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 217", "Lone Wolves United was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 74", so I would surmise they are also regions "whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values". So why are Pacifics working with them? Why are defenders working with them?

[Mlakhavia]

Sooo, opposing fascism is inherently communist? Is that the point you're making? Because otherwise, your point isn't exactly clear. And if that is your point, it's quite a stretch at the best of times.

Militaries from every faction of NationStates Gameplay came together with the commonality being that they all like freedom and peace. To oppose a region whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values. This is not difficult to understand. There are only two communist regions on that list at most.

And trust me when I say you have no idea why Sanctum was raided. There's a lot involved there that you arent even aware of. Stuff we aren't really allowed to talk about on this website.

my point was very clear, pacific regions (which have a lot of power given by the game system, creating an imbalance of power), invader regions, defender regions and communist regions are working together to invade other regions. That's it, I wouldn't invade a communist region along with fascists under any circumstances, because I don't want to associate myself with them, pacifics and defenders have no problem with associating themselves with communists and invaders.
Edit: there are these condemnations, "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52", "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 217", "Lone Wolves United was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 74", so I would surmise they are also regions "whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values". So why are Pacifics working with them? Why are defenders working with them?

because of anti-fascism. these regions would not get on with each other in any other context.

[The Church of Satan]

Exactly. There are few things that bring enemies together to cooperate for a military operation in NationStates, but opposing fascism is one of them. You don't have to like it. But you do have to accept it because frankly there's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing unfair about regions joining forces. It's the simple concept of teamwork. They have a shared goal from time to time. When they don't, they're fighting each other or keeping each other at arm's length.

[The North Polish Union]

yes, there's a 20 telegram cap, but as I said, it can be ignored. I got notification that excess telegrams would be deleted after I log out and they did (copied them in a .txt file btw), it's not like if I have 20 I can no longer receive new ones.



They CAN be communists or extremists of other kind, they CAN commit abuses of power, it's not only what they did/what they are doing but what they can do. Under my suggestion every single Pacific region would be a pure inclusive democracy.

The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions.

Again ignoring the argument related to non-NS political views that the OP is making, I strongly dissent from this statement.

Since through a massive historical misjudgement the Pacifics do exist and are a founding grounds for all nations, all nations have an interest in how they are run. There is nobody on this site (class nations excluded) whose NS career does not involve a Pacific.

Since new nations are not founded in an empty holding zone before they join a real region, the only reasonable option is for all players of NS to be given a say on the "laws and policies" of how the commons are operated, rather than consolidating power around a clique of endotarters.

The old Francoist obfuscations about "Userites" were a highly effective wedge to divide the parties rightfully interested in the operation of the Pacifics on the basis of how closely those parties aligned with the views of the Francoists themselves. There is little reason to give any further credibility to their years-old lies.

[Jar Wattinree]

The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions.

Since through a massive historical misjudgement the Pacifics do exist and are a founding grounds for all nations, all nations have an interest in how they are run. There is nobody on this site (class nations excluded) whose NS career does not involve a Pacific.

Says the person not in a Game Created Region. You chose to move out, you lose any “right” you claim to have regarding how a Pacific region is governed.

Since new nations are not founded in an empty holding zone before they join a real region, the only reasonable option is for all players of NS to be given a say on the "laws and policies" of how the commons are operated, rather than consolidating power around a clique of endotarters.

Ibid.

The old Francoist obfuscations about "Userites" were a highly effective wedge to divide the parties rightfully interested in the operation of the Pacifics on the basis of how closely those parties aligned with the views of the Francoists themselves. There is little reason to give any further credibility to their years-old lies.

For a so-called userite, you're quite determined to continue demonstrating why you are politically obsolete. I’m sure not even these newfangled Frontiers are gonna take you in.

[Refuge Isle]

Damn, all this because a puppet dump with "FASCIST" in half its nation names or gently off-brand swastika flags got invaded uncontroversially?

Yes, yes, truly a sign communists have taken over. Arg!

Edit: there are these condemnations, "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52", "The Black Hawks was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 217", "Lone Wolves United was Condemned by Security Council Resolution # 74", so I would surmise they are also regions "whose ideals stand in stark opposition to those values". So why are Pacifics working with them? Why are defenders working with them?

You're eager to comment on things you don't understand. Condemnations are awards given to players who play the villain. They are badges of honour as much as commendations.

Some feeders work with raiders, some do not. Sometimes we all come together to de-platform fascists.