NATION

PASSWORD

Death and Denial: NationStates in its Twentieth Year

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.
User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Death and Denial: NationStates in its Twentieth Year

Postby Unibot III » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:48 pm

Death and Denial: NationStates in its Twentieth Year


By Unibot


"And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."


- Dylan Thomas


A collection of eight new essays in honour and reflection of NationStates.



The Brave New Frontier

NationStates now awaits the most significant update to its game architecture since the introduction of 'Regional Influence' in 2006 which replaced the griefing rules of old - there is no timeline for its implementation. The proposal is finalized and remains the "top" of Sedgistan's "wish-list" as the Gameplay Development Manager. As it is a "biggish" update, [violet] herself will be involved in coding the project.

A plurality of players (37.5%) favoured the change in an opinion poll conducted last year, with UCR players favouring it more than GCR players. Treating it as an inevitability, regions and organizations are already preparing for its implementation. Earlier this past June, for instance, the League established a planned-frontier region, Concord. The Treaty of Par Vollen between Europeia and the Grey Wardens names "the Frontier / Stronghold update" as a challenge ahead requiring international cooperation and adaption.

The proposed change would see the creation of two 'classes' of user-created regions, Stronghold regions, a traditional UCR with a founder and a new chain of succession for founders that cease-to-exist, and Frontier regions, a founderless UCR that receives an influx of newly-created nations. The immigration rate for individual Frontier regions would be subject to how many other frontier regions exist and whether a frontier satisfies a set of criteria, some of them known, some of them deliberately vague. The number of nations immigrating to the existing feeder regions would be cut in half. The full details of the proposal are located here and worth a read.

The Frontier/Stronghold proposal was first suggested by [violet] to respond to two issues. First, feeders have been growing in size disproportional to the rest of NationStates - game-created regions like the North Pacific possess an inordinate amount of influence over the voting floor in the World Assembly - and there is also a continued desire among many players to protect their regions from invasions by adopting some kind of chain of succession for founder-nations to "opt" out of threat of foreign invasion or occupation. The Frontier/Stronghold proposal is conceived as a double-edged sword, whereby choosing one option (Frontier) or the other (Stronghold) comes with its own inherent strengths and weaknesses.

Arguably, the implicit assumptions of the Frontier/Stronghold proposal reflects Sedgistan's worldview as a gameplayer. In the past, Sedgistan has shared that he sees game-created regions as static, stagnant, and bloated, and user-created regions as lean, innovative, and competitive. Last year, for instance, he wrote "the feeder regions have grown too large. It stifles gameplay having such a significant amount of power concentrated in a small number of regions, and their significant inbuilt recruitment advantage impedes the ability of others to grow dynamic, interesting new regions (whether gameplayers or not). Feeders are great for occasional scheming and significant political events, but the real creativity in NationStates tends to come from player-created regions. It's also bad on a technical level having such bloated regions."

In an earlier post (2010), pre-Devonitians, Sedgistan complained that "feeders have been stagnant for far too long to be interesting," and that feederites had a risk-adverse mentality. The introduction of Regional Influence, he argued then, was the root of inactivity within feeder regions. Game-created regions, under this line of thinking, are like public sector entities, and user-created regions are the private sector: the former may manage a public good, but the latter produces and distributes other goods more efficiently and with far more innovation under the pressure of competition and budget constraints.

Unfortunately, I think any players expecting the Frontier/Stronghold proposal to revolutionize NationStates will be disappointed. There are clear red flags on the horizon that indicate the introduction of Frontiers will not bring the value that players may be expecting, indeed the whole plan is underestimating the realities of today's NS Gameplay - genuine new immigration is rarer and the game itself is even more conflict-averse then when Sedgistan complained about it a decade ago. When the taps are turned on, new frontiers can expect to receive not just new nations, but a sizeable chunk of dead puppet nations and other puppet nations that quickly relocate: these nations (which feeder regions already receive in great numbers) are in many ways responsible for why game-created regions are the way they are, in that there are so few players present to engage with the region or regional government substantively. User-created regions may appear lean and innovative, but it helps that they receive a cross-section of the most engaged and most enthusiastic of newcomers through outreach and recruitment.

Growth will be more limited than imagined: approximately 1000-1500 nations are currently created a day. So, naturally around 500-750 nations will be divvied up daily between the game's frontier regions on an uneven basis. Out of these 500-750 nations, we can reasonably expect that 200-300 nations will relocate shortly after being founded, and 350-500 nations will stay relatively dormant and cease-to-exist within a month. Shockingly, the daily difference between the number of nations going "in" and going "out" of a feeder regions trends towards zero. A frontier would need two-fifths of the maximum frontier allocation to intake as many nations as a regular feeder does today, and a full one-fifth to match the intake of a feeder at half-rate.

How many frontiers will there be, and how disproportional will the distribution be, will ultimately determine its sustainability as a system. My guess, and it is only a guess, is there will be a central tendency towards there being too many active frontiers to generate significant gains over time for most or all frontier regions. That is to say that there may be dozens of frontiers qualifying for enough share of the allocation that there will be too little butter to spread across the toast. Moreover, players are very innovative - in a competitive system designed to maximize input, regions will organically work towards optimizing the share of nations their frontiers are receiving under the hidden criteria, which will in time cancel the fruits of each other's labour collectively.

My suggestion to Sedgistan and the game developers would be to consider allocating nations not on the basis of a common denominator that is rejigged or subject to a multiplier, but assigning a fixed allocation to the 'order' that frontier regions find themselves in based on sequence of the "most qualifying" to the "least qualifying" frontiers. For instance, the "top" frontier might receive one half of the allocation, the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-quarter of the allocation, then the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-eight, and the next one-sixteenth, and so on, then distribute the remainder evenly to all frontiers. This fixed approach would ensure that the model predictably produced an allocation that was valuable to top performing frontiers in spite of the entry of new frontiers and natural competition between frontiers.

The proposal as stated also depends on a level of conflict that is unrealistic. The proposal assumes enough conflict and military engagements between frontiers to reduce competition artificially, and the proposal also assumes that military activity in current founderless regions (that will soon have the power to replace their departing founders) will be sufficiently displaced by new military activity in frontier regions. But in today's NationStates, conflict between major regions is uncommon and taboo, and even in regions like Warzones (e.g., Warzone Asia, Warzone Sandbox) that used to be thought as a free-for-all, it is the philosophy du jour to defend these regions just as other regions. Frontiers will also have a more sophisticated security apparatus than the typical founderless region, which can be inactive and dormant, which will deter and obstruct many invasions and upheavals that might be possible in an environment where the region's security isn't as professionalized.

Frontier regions will emerge as planned societies, just like any user-created region today, with a de facto founder that is conventionally recognized and deferred to, and these regions will be treated as their intellectual property. Many frontier regions will simply be opportunistic fronts for related communities that are based in stronghold regions. My greatest fear in relation to the Frontier/Stronghold proposal is that it is establishing a class of user-created regions that will be even less interesting than feeders at their worst, with these regions garnering less interest as a political focal point than feeder regions and farming its most active players for an outside outlet. A class of regions that in the past was primarily concerned with their own general appeal and ability to recruit will now prioritize rent-seeking and gaming the system; we've seen how user-created regions like NationStates, Canada, and Europe, that haven't needed to recruit, have chronically suffered from a lack of engagement and an absence of structured government.

And will the proposal really address imbalances in the World Assembly? I hardly see how it can. These imbalances in terms of endorsements are baked in and will sustain themselves over the long term even as the rate of newcomers to feeder regions are cut because the proposal won't result in the endorsement gap vanishing. A tech change to NationStates cannot address voting inequality in the World Assembly substantively without either a significant shift of existing WA endorsements to other regions or a change in the voting system itself.

* * *

Kandarin often shared an anonymous quotation that said "Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship." When considering future tech changes, I feel that the developers should try to revive the true spirit of NationStates as the box of a thousand things. Game changes should seek to enable the creativity of gameplayers - a broad, blank canvas. One of the problems with the Frontier/Stronghold proposal is just how detailed it is, and intentional; it has a clear idea of how regional communities should operate and it tries to predict their desires and behaviour. We should spend less time thinking about how NationStates could change to fix specific "problems," and instead consider simply what it is missing, i.e., the problems we don't know we have.

A lot of admin time as of late is invested into mini-games that are in a way too well developed to facilitate the kind of off-beat creativity that made NationStates wonderful and unpredictable. These mini-games are thematic, rules-based, deliberate, and predictable - the IPO 2013 event is an exception in this regard as it captured the spirit of NationStates because players disrupted the mini-game entirely. The card market is intriguing but feels limited and static as it's based on one item (cards) and limited creatively to the updates that admins make. My thinking is blow it up - make the marketplace, a marketplace for NationStates. Allow players to submit their own items and artwork for loot boxes. Allow regions to auction off executive powers. Sell special NS Issues. Unlock new macros to customize your nation further. Create regional treasuries so delegates can build their own portfolios, tax residents, and distribute earnings or items.

We should ask ourselves what is NationStates missing? Perhaps, it's lacking a source of 'scarcity' between regions, like an economic or trade system, that independently justifies conflict? Perhaps, we shouldn't just be focused on seizing delegacies but considering other tools of disruption and aggression that would allow regional adversaries to impact one another without necessarily occupying the region?

We could also seek more features that facilitate in-game governance to conduct what is otherwise conducted out-of-game. This might mean a customizable in-game voting system for elections or the adoption of regional resolutions. We could create "sub-rooms" for Regional Message Boards with customizable names (e.g., "Roleplay," "Summer Olympics," "WA," or "Regional Assembly") that can be archived, hidden to outsiders, or passworded, that allows discussions to take place in-game without being lost in the stream of consciousness that occurs in a general message board. Another possibility would be subscription services that automatically delivered messages to RMBs and TG boxes to notify players of regional updates, current votes, or deliver periodicals and news media.

All good intentions of any tech changes, including the Frontier/Stronghold proposal, will have to reckon with the culture and norms of players themselves, which are often conservative, risk-averse, slow to change, and deferential to community leadership. That is probably the area where current developers are most likely overestimating user participation and buy-in for the Frontier/Stronghold plan. You can add things, you can change things, and you can take things away, but any theory of adaption, without foresight and some luck, can prove wrong if players maladapt to a change in a way that is not only unexpected by its developers, but also counter-productive and undesirable.


Discordification and the Long, Never-ending Peace

Last year I sat down to write an unreleased essay when I came to a sudden and rather obvious realization: how on earth could I be qualified to write about a game that I haven't really played in six years? I had only really played NationStates for six years to begin with! You silly fraud, you. Indeed, whenever I would write that the political culture of NationStates had changed, that it lacked substantive conflict and in-game institutions were being neglected for Discord, I was told the same thing repeatedly: you're out of touch, Unibot! Old! Decrepit — maybe even fossilized! You don't know what you're talking about, Unibot.

Fair enough, I thought.

So I put the writing pen down, and I decided I should conduct a survey among players in NationStates which launched in November of last year.

In that survey, a plurality of respondents said that NationStates was not in decline (fair), but that optimistic result masked obvious problems that players perceived with the present state of NationStates. Half of respondents described NationStates as "toxic." More than 70% agreed that NSGP "is experiencing an extended period of interregional peace. Players have shifted their focus accordingly to cultural activities, socializing, and card-collecting." And most reported this as a negative change. A near majority of respondents also agreed that today’s NSGP "involves less politics, divisions, and ideological distinctions than in the past" and "regional governments should focus more on their regions in-game and less on Discord." Almost two-third of respondents said they would be "excited" by the prospect of coup d'etat in a feeder or sinker, and near two-thirds also said that such behaviour was strongly deterred by the "fear of being ostracized."

The main takeaway is that not only has NationStates firmly entered a new era, players are also conscious of this, even if they fear acknowledging it (or worse still, doing something about it). The Long Peace continues to reign supreme. The last "hard" coup of a feeder or sinker region was the Fedele Coup in October 2019. Surpassing more than three uninterrupted years of peace, this marks a historic milestone never before accomplished in NationStates. Seemingly the whole of Gameplay is unifying and reconstituting itself in a way that is pre-Cold War, pre-DEN, almost Neo-Antiquity: Balder has signed treaties with The League, Concord, and 10000 Islands; Europeia has revived old agreements with the South Pacific; and the North Pacific (very eloquently) declared in January of this year that it has "effectively ceased any feasible raiding activity ... (having) concluded it is currently not in our best interest to work with these (raiding) organizations, but more than that, it is not in our interest to pursue most raiding operations more generally."

This kind of open, easy cooperation and coordination between defenders, independents, neutrals, and independents constitutes a sea change in geopolitical activity. For the sake of comparison: in 2012, I privately begged Europeian officials to no avail to help the UDL and FRA forces liberate a region from literal Nazis, whereas in 2022, the ERN, LDF, and SPSF worked closely in an attempt to liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds.

Establishing itself as the pre-eminent pariah and a catalyst for unity are today's remaining invader organizations - namely, the Brotherhood of Malice (and by extension, Osiris), the Black Hawks, and Lone Wolves United, whose run-of-the-mill raids this year in Stargate and Venice, botched electoral meddling, and vague plotting (Operation Ragnarok) have inspired wide-spread outrage and condemnation.

In response to the relatively mild offense of "tipping" the delegacy of Equilism, the Modern Gameplay Compact, a new multilateral alliance between Balder, Europeia, the North Pacific, the Pacific, the West Pacific, recently took extraordinary measures to ban members of the Brotherhood of Malice and the Black Hawks from participating in any of their cultural events or being "platformed" by any media. The Modern Gameplay Compact has also initiated an unprecedented blackout on these invaders in the WA, promising unconditional support for repeals of legislation passed by these offenders and the use of targeted offensive liberations. These measures, among many things, call into question the freedom of the press in the MGC and the merit of its intervention in the WA, if major regions are endorsing the repeals of GA and SC resolutions not on the basis of the resolutions, but grudges with their authors.

(The irony of the overwrought "we have built while you have burned" rhetoric is of course that prominent members of Equilism have previously couped and occupied several member-regions of the Modern Gameplay Compact, and the BoM/TBH have not.)

The world is more connected, more united, and cohesive than ever before, transcending conventional geopolitical lines.

Why? Well, this cooperation, in my view, is a response to the relative organizational weakness of today's invaders (who aren't as valuable of allies as they were in the past), but also a reflection of the challenges that independent regions have increasingly faced to decompartmentalize their active support for invading abroad from their support for their own regional sovereignty and that of its allies. It's harder to navigate that political balancing act in a climate that doesn't tolerate such nuance.

More broadly speaking though, this global cooperation is a product of increasing social connectivity.

The adoption of platforms for greater online social connectivity that are free-flowing, instantaneous, and audio-based, has metastasized throughout NationStates Gameplay, first as purely text-based communication (IRC, MSN) and later with platforms with audio-visual component (Discord, Skype). But for the sake of simplicity we'll call this increased social connectivity, "discordification." Discordifiation has politically realigned NationStates to an extraordinary extent: at a macro level, it inspires mass cooperation and cohesion between previously rival regions, deterring international conflict and intrigue; at a meso level, it contributes to inactivity and maladministration within regions; at a micro level, it places peer pressure on individual players to conform and encourages them to exhibit relational aggression to advance their own status and position. It is all one phenomenon and one cause with many effects with a global, regional, and interpersonal scope that happens simultaneously.

Discordification is an NS-specific term that combines a number of real-life phenomena that have long been studied, like the "Network Effect" when the utility of a service for a user grows as the number of users grow (encouraging further adoption) and "Groupthink" where an overwhelming desire arising within a cohesive group to avoid conflict and reach a consensus fosters poor decision-making. The components that conceptually constitute Discordification should seem familiar, we see them everywhere in 'RL' in politics, business, and technology, but these phenomena manifest in a fundamentally original way in NationStates due to the way that its intentional virtual communities and "worlds," which are as old as Myspace, have adapted to the reality of modern social messaging.

Discordification

Cause: Gradual abandonment of traditional text-based forums and formal institutions, like a legislature, for free-form online chat, especially voice chat.

First-Order Effects (Interpersonal)
  • The humanization of traditional political opponents
  • Personal drama overlaps more frequently with the administration of regions and organizations
  • Neglect of the region and administration in favour of Discord where more time and attention is spent

Second-Order Effects (Communal)
  • Overwhelming pressure for social cohesion, i.e., "to get along"
  • Formal institutions, like a legislature, suffer from inactivity due to player withdrawal
  • Players value access to these social networks more than they value access to traditional executive and legislative branches

Third-Order Effects (Societal)
  • Political positions converge for the sake of consensus with little regard for intellectual or philosophical coherency
  • Lack of direction, identity, and nuance
  • Bullying and relational aggression

Fourth-Order Effects (Organizational)
  • Severe administrative dysfunction as the legislated processes of formal regional institutions break down, effectively constituting a state failure
  • High executive turnover (e.g., elected officials) but stagnant informal leadership (e.g., influential people, influencers)
  • Difficulty distinguishing between societal dysfunction that is "in-game" versus "real life"

Fifth-Order Effects (Cyclical)
  • New players join NationStates and adapt to current organizational cultures and practices, unaware of how they’ve changed. This is key as NationStates is a “younger” game than its anniversary would have you believe: in 2021, my research found that half of NS Gameplay joined NationStates after 2016 — there were more players in NS Gameplay that reported started playing in 2020 alone than there were from the combined years of 2002 to 2011
  • Strong internal pressure on peers within an in-group to deny problems with their group and take responsibility. This includes publicly denying this very process is occurring, self-reinforcing the overall phenomenon. Nobody wants to be the person who concedes publicly that there is a problem...
  • Players who are most dissatisfied with these changes leave, players who are most satisfied stay


I think it would be fair to push back at this juncture and say "whoa, Unibot, slow down now" and ask how can one minor change (how we communicate) have such a big impact? This is a good question that must be addressed at length with a number of contributing factors. First, players naturally have a difficult time separating the person from "make believe" when disputes are resolved over voice chat and they come to know the players through audio-visual communication as people, not just online personalities. Next, peer pressure and the compulsion to conform and protect one another's in-group is stronger when peers know each other on this more personal, human level. For this reason, the diversity of opinion and values which promotes wider conflict and ideation is rendered unsustainable within large, communicative peer groups.

In addition to this, players instinctively seek out power wherever it is: if the decisions are being made in a Discord server, not a legislature or cabinet office, then they will privilege being in the Discord server. Establishments are also concerned primarily about their self-presentation, so if voters aren't evaluating or even paying attention to the health of the region, they won't preoccupy their time with maintaining a "healthy" region. Some players are also much more sophisticated "social strategists" than others, and they thrive in this new game environment where traditional forms of authority — laws, customs, values, charisma, and "likability" — are less valuable. The combination of these contributing factors results in this change in social connectivity to escalate and effect everything: pacifying the international scene, paralyzing regions, and trapping players within a social network that can be uncomfortable and unpleasant.

In an essay earlier this year, "Lament for a forum," Ikania effortlessly traced the history of the Long Peace and its antecedents, noting the absence of feeder coups and ideological disputes, the change in defending culture and the adoption of the Discord platform. Ikania also questioned whether it was possible for a revival of interregional conflict without the "toxic attributes" that facilitated previous conflicts. Interestingly, the author also tied the Long Peace to Generation Z and new social norms that emphasize positivity, social safety, and inclusive spaces. However, half of NS Gameplay in that same 2021 poll responded by saying they found the present NS Gameplay environment "toxic" and a significant majority attributed the "fear of ostracization" (which itself sounds rather unpleasant) to the longevity of the Long Peace.

As an example, let us consider the Rejected Realms for a moment. The regular government updates (required under the Government Accountability Act) provided to the Assembly by the Delegate, when they’re not forgotten entirely, tell an increasingly bleak story, with updates now reduced to one-line sentences acknowledging vacancies, on-going dispatch revamps, and the successes of “Theme Tuesdays” and “Werewolf Wednesdays.” From the outside, the region appears either unaware or unwilling to acknowledge its obvious problem with inactivity. The Assembly hasn’t been this inactive in (literal) decades, the Rejected Times hasn’t posted an edition this year, and the Rejected Realms had four delegates last year alone due to a string of resignations (which included many officers). Not only has legislative changes to TRRMC not produced more accountability to the Assembly, the Assembly has shown no interest in holding any official accountable for their activity in years. In one case in 2020, a delegate fell so inactive they forgot to file a regular update which triggered a snap election that was widely condemned by the Assembly as unnecessary and unfair. That delegate after being returned to office with a supermajority later resigned before their first term would have elapsed, describing their own term in public office as unaccomplished.

But is discordification sustainable indefinitely? That is an important question for the future of NationStates Gameplay which I cannot definitively answer.

Clearly features of discordification are reproductive and cyclical, as new players adopt current cultures as they arrive and a pseudo-consensus continues to spiral and develop, however it is an open question whether such a feedback loop is ‘positive’ or ‘negative’? Positive feedback leads to instability (at some point, it goes “ka-boom”), negative feedback eventually reaches equilibrium (“blah”). One answer may lie at observing how the higher order impacts of discordification affect retention, when the number of new players is unchanged? That is to say, does player retention decrease over time in a sustainable way? Discordification could represent a terminal problem for the game, "an End of History," as some have suggested likening it to works of Francis Fukuyama. Or perhaps this cohesion could break under the strain of older political rivalries? Or there could arise enough backlash that policy actors are forced to respond to the problems that discordification causes? There also remains the possibility that a new platform which further advances social connectivity within the game could act as a technological accelerant to the crisis just as Discord has. I am always an optimist, but I grow more pessimistic about the structural capacity of regions to recognize the problem, acknowledge, and reverse course.


Quiet Cruelty, Absent Leadership

I remember one time in high school, I raised my hand to complain that it was unfair that the film studies teacher would be judging the popularity of short student films by an open rather than anonymous vote. People wouldn't feel as though they could be honest if everyone knew how they voted, I argued. The teacher, who was herself a rather sad person, responded tritely "that's life" and I better get used to it! Naturally, the class voted in overwhelming numbers for an objectively bad short film about a ghost by a charming young lass who fancied herself a "creative" and everyone was afraid of.

Economist Timur Kuran calls this phenomenon, "preference falsification" whereby people misrepresent their preferences under peer pressure. A common theme throughout not just this essay, but many of this collection's essays is preference falsification and the effects of social conformity on group behaviour.

Indeed, for as long as I can remember, I've always been frustrated with conformity and its perverse consequences on decision-making within groups. At its worse, conformity contributes and exasperates our most complex political, economic, and social problems as a collective irrationality. Trying to resolve social dilemmas under the weight of peer pressure is a key leadership challenge, sometimes it means unraveling a "spiral of silence," while other times it means pushing a bandwagon up a hill till it gathers momentum.

When people misrepresent themselves under social pressure it undermines our workplaces, our governments, and our society, and it has an extraordinary impact on communities like the ones we've cultivated in NationStates by censoring sincere organizational introspection and impeding positive change. It is not just that leaders have to rise above this, but leadership is itself by definition the act of advancing positive change and introspection against such social forces: breaking through the "walls" we erect for ourselves in challenging us to do better.

But what happens when there is no leadership in a community?

What happens when the most socially savviest among us use these skills only to advance themselves, rather than the greater interests of the community?

How ever pessimistic these series of essays may appear about the state of NationStates Gameplay today, I would like to acknowledge on a positive note that today's NationStates, with the efforts of players like the "Protecting Our Players Accord" (2019), is a safer place for all players. It really is!

At one time, NationStates mirrored the problems that persisted across the internet in the early aughts, with a gaming culture that was essentially naïve to the presence and impact of catfishing, harassment, manipulation, exploitation, unhealthy and toxic relationships, even pedophilia, that players struggled to navigate, especially as adolescents. It wasn't normal, it wasn't healthy, it wasn't right, but as a child, adolescent, or young adult, these problems may have seemed, without knowing better, just a part of life or growing up. Changes in online culture have brought with it a safer gameplay environment for players in NationStates, many of whom are not only young, but treat NationStates as a safe space to practice politics and the essential skills of politicking, persuasion, and organization.

Regrettably, however, we've seen one set of problems replaced with a new problem: namely, a rise in cyberbullying and relational aggression in NationStates, which is actively being denied by some, especially those who engage in it. Merriam-Webster defines cyberbullying as the "abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful." In an online and primarily text-based game, cyberbullying manifests itself as taunting, "chirping," deliberate social exclusion by peers, and "logging" and strategically leaking out-of-context messages to embarrass victims. This so-called "invisible" form of peer group manipulation and bullying requires a higher degree of social intelligence on the part of its perpetrators than conventional verbal or physical bullying. But it is harmful, and it is primarily sought to advance the power of some for the domination of others.

For me, this problem does not simply run parallel to the overall trend of discordification but rather, it is perhaps the most harmful consequence of it.

In a controversial essay last year, "Here Lies the Abyss, " Ridersyl argued that a major Gameplay group was prioritizing the skills and efficiency of their players over a positive organizational culture which fostered toxic behaviour, shitposting, manipulative behaviour and "punching down." Another essay, "On current GP events," by Chingis called for WA commendations for invaders to be respected, and inadvertently invited a discussion on whether it is healthy or not for a game environment to be as cohesive as contemporary NationStates Gameplay has tried to be.

In a game environment where players increasingly do not respect good government, or ideology, or aspirational leadership, to obtain, assert, and maintain power, players resort instead simply to cyberbullying to establish themselves within a social hierarchy in lieu of another system of authority; they score "political" points with their peers, assert their "leadership" by essentially being mean, and neglect to intervene against bullying primarily out of self-preservation.

Previously, political personalities courted power by pandering to regional prejudices or appealing to the political centre for votes, or positioning themselves at the heart of an ideological movement. But when you're no longer invested in the work of government, or who nominally leads it, or what they do with it, and you're no longer invested in any consistent, normative idea of what rights or freedoms or powers or immunities exist in NationStates, the only source of authority that remains is primarily social and relational, which manifests itself as bullying through trash talk, exclusion, and the use of technology to threaten, embarrass, and shame.

Social studies suggest that "pure bullies" rather than acting on low-self esteem, exhibit high self-esteem but limited empathy: they're adept social strategists, overachievers, and are perceived by their peers as popular but less likeable. That is to say, less people like them, but everyone thinks of them as popular regardless. The risk to NationStates is that a political environment governed by such social aggression absent much of anything else (e.g., government, philosophy, ideas) is inherently harmful to players who are the targets of this bullying, but also a source of shame for players who adapt to this by pitching in and bullying others to "get ahead" and deny bullying by their peers to preserve their own position.

In summary, I'll wrap up with a favourite quote of mine from a former professor who once quipped "politics is about who is in, and who is out." Politics is always about who has power, that hasn't changed. But what has changed about our politics in NationStates is what power is, and the path to obtaining it, when our formal, in-game systems continue to deteriorate and informal places of discussion grow in their relevance.


The Rise of Selective Technocracy and the Compliance State

NationStates Gameplay isn't the only part of NationStates that has been impacted by Discordification, and I would be remiss if I didn't take a moment to address the World Assembly. As a sub-game, the World Assembly is the most exposed to changes in NS Gameplay because there is an incentive for authors to court regional delegates, communities, and super-organizations and blocs for their support on resolutions, which results in WA Authors becoming more exposed to NS Gameplay than participants of other sub-games, like roleplayers or generalites, who have no overriding motivation for cross-participation.

Interestingly, IRC was never overwhelmingly adopted by authors in the World Assembly as a common mode of communication in the same way as it was for other NationStates sub-communities. Official IRC channels related to the World Assembly were typically dormant and went underused. Instead, most communication between authors happened in either a public or private forum. Today, however, WA Authors overwhelmingly have adopted Discord as their communication platform of choice, and the NS WA boasts an active Discord. Early collaborations between authors are often discussed via a Direct Message (DM) on Discord too, then edited in a shared Google Doc.

It is not hard to find evidence of Discordification in the World Assembly today.

Drafts are often now presented to the World Assembly with the vetting complete externally, and the actual in-game consultation is simply pro forma. Other drafts are frequently presented to the World Assembly that are based on inside jokes or internal discussions on the NS WA Discord. Influential players are also not only more entrenched than they were prior to Discord, but now form a self-appointed secretariat that interprets how the rules shall apply. And at least one player in the World Assembly recently (who I will leave unnamed) was effectively excommunicated by his peers for having a disagreement with another WA Author.

But the most significant consequence of Discordification within the General Assembly is at the ideological level, where it has followed the same pattern as it has in NS Gameplay of synthesizing different classical viewpoints in a chaotic, atonal manner. A decade ago, the World Assembly was embroiled in a passionate divide between ‘International Federalist’ (IntFed) authors, who were a part of a newer generation and more liberal, and ‘National Sovereigntists’ (NatSov), who were veteran players and more economically conservative. International Federalism was a kind of liberal continentalism, exemplified by social justice legislation like “Quality in Health Services” by Sionis Prioratus that sought universal access to healthcare, whereas National Sovereignty presented itself as a kind of libertarian conservatism, exemplified by blocker legislation like “National Economic Freedoms,” by Krioval, that sought to limit WA intervention in national commerce.

This division, which in fact predated the WA, was consigned to the dustbin many years ago and the terms no longer really even apply to today’s WA General Assembly. Hulldom began an interesting discussion in a WA thread “A New Paradigm for the 2020s” that asked what divisions, if not NatSov and IntFed, were relevant in today’s WA? The discussion ended incomplete prematurely. Imperium Anglorum summarized the present state of things in saying that whether something is an international issue or not is no longer a point of discussion in the WA General Assembly, but rather whether something is “good” or “bad” policy is the central question. Sciongrad argued in an earlier 2017 essay, "GenSec and the GA" that the divisions between NatSov and IntFed movements had been replaced by litigation over the rules of the GA itself with the creation of a self-moderation body, GenSec. Imperium Anglorum, meanwhile, attributed this change in the WA General Assembly to a generational/cultural shift and regarded it as a natural evolution as the WA General Assembly focused increasingly on more technical issues with larger, human rights issues already well legislated.

I would disagree with Sciongrad's view outright as it doesn't appear that there is much appetite among GA regulars these days to contest rulings, even precedent-breaking rulings by its secretariat (that agreeableness being another symptom of Discordification). I would posit a different theory, that the WA General Assembly moved on from the NatSov/IntFed debate because of intermingling and voluntary exposure effects — today’s regulars in the General Assembly are a relatively cohesive group, yesterday’s regulars only interacted as a whole on the official forums and were divided into different camps between rival regions and social clubs. Outgroups have collapsed into ingroups: the result is stronger ties between authors with more personal interactions and conflict avoidance. This also means pursuing resolutions that avoid heated disagreements.

While it is true there was turnover of authors at this time, as Imperium Anglorum notes, changes in communication have prevented analogous divisions and disagreements from perpetrating or reviving among subsequent generations of authors under different terms or philosophies.

NatSov and IntFed has been displaced by a single pattern of action: selective technocracy. Under the influence of selective technocracy, authors extensively regulate policy areas that are non-controversial and non-divisive but avoid policy areas that are controversial and divisive. Since authors are prevailingly motivated to pass legislation without raising divisions within their in-group, the result is an overwhelming focus on issues where a consensus is present, or on issues on which most voters either have no firm opinions on, little knowledge about, or any real interest in.

Today’s WA is an institution that has strong opinions on retail credit, ship recycling, chlamydia, and 24-D, and little to no opinion on handguns, a minimum wage, sex work, unemployment, or mental health (not including legal competence, which is discussed extensively). Reversals on euthanasia, the death penalty, and drug decriminalization, tracks with changes in U.S public opinion, especially among youth. The WA has extensively detailed war crimes, but avoided the crime of aggression itself. The WA has set greenhouse gas emission targets and credits and ozone-depleting chemical reduction targets, but overlooked the question of how to finance climate action in developing countries. Moreover, today’s WA has effectively tried to address poverty in a single resolution, “Minimum Standard of Living Act,” that guarantees a “minimum level of access” to core needs (food, water, shelter, housing etc.). Poor or economically challenged member-nations were substantially exempt from the provisions of that resolution, without the WA stepping in to fill the gap and finance social welfare (contrary to how the WA years ago addressed healthcare and education in impoverished member-nations with landmark “IntFed” legislation.)

It is worth noting that “Minimum Standard of Living Act” was recently repealed.

I should add that an older extant resolution, the “Disability Welfare Act” roughly sketches out a need for member-nations to financially support people with disabilities, but doesn’t even consider what happens when a member-nation is incapable financially of doing so sufficiently, and it reads as a “fill in the blank” exercise that doesn’t address any specific issues with social assistance for people with disabilities — like, site accessibility, or establishing your qualification for assistance, or “welfare traps” where disabled peoples are discouraged from pursuing part-time work. And a much more recent resolution, “Homelessness Mitigation and Protections Act,” comprehensively details how member-nations should respond to homelessness and support people experiencing homelessness, and how the WA should finance these supports in the case of impoverished nations with limited capacity. But homelessness is only experienced by a small minority of those living in poverty. Thankfully for the rest, the WA has declared they can’t be executed under (not making this up) the “Don’t Kill the Poor Act”…

Conflating the issue of poverty almost entirely under one resolution as the WA has tried to do abandons any intersectional, multidimensional, or needs-based approach to poverty. Poverty can manifest more specifically as child poverty or senior poverty, or poverty among people with disabilities or veterans. Rural poverty or urban poverty. Poverty can be racialized. Poverty can be extreme or relative.

The World Assembly undertakes extensive investments in universal libraries, databases, and scientific research, primarily of an ecological, meteorological or astrometric scope, but it is worth considering why it has consistently avoided the question of wealth redistribution and human security, especially given some peoples on the other side of the digital divide will benefit more than others from scientific and technological cooperation. Is the General Assembly living up to its mandate to “make the world a better place?” or is it making the world a better place only for some? Selective technocracy has left our hallowed halls bereft of the bigger question facing our world, which is not only how to make life better, but better for all, when inequality, marginalization, and stigma disadvantages some disproportionately. The World Assembly of today confronts easy questions, but often neglects the question of social and economic rights due to their controversial nature. The problem with the WA General Assembly as of late is not that it is compromising on difficult moral or political issues, but rather skipping over them entirely.

I would regard the softer, "Modern" National Sovereignism of Mousebumbles as the antecedent of modern selective technocracy. Mousebumbles identified as a sovereigntist and believed "the WA has largely over-legislated on many topics that do not merit international interference or meddling," but she also advocated passionately for niche legislation on the freedom of information, medical advancement and human rights, especially the rights and freedoms of patients. Mousebumples argued these seemingly mixed priorities were coherently tied together under a single ideology of informed consent, and that the WA should protect the freedom of both member-states and individuals alike to make their own informed decisions. This view, however, neglects the importance of socio-economic rights (second generation rights) and the freedom from want which are distinct from first generation rights: endeavoring to improve the state of international research and medical ethics, while ignoring the devastating impacts of global poverty on opportunity, health, and quality of life.

While Delegate of Europeia, Mousebumples co-authored a white paper with The Dourian Embassy called "The Modern NatSov: Freedom to Govern" which is still a widely-viewed guide in the annals of the World Assembly Legislative League (WALL). Intriguingly, it argued that while defenders were often still federalists, other gameplayers (e.g., Independents) were a natural fit for National Sovereignty. That guide introduced a softer version of National Sovereignty - modern National Sovereignty - that argued you should "support resolutions on the issues that are important to you ... The Modern NatSov is about making sure that as little power leaves your hands as possible, while not ignoring substantive issues that may shock the conscience." Effectively this meant that the 'Modern NatSover' could pursue regulation on any issue they were passionate about, provided it could be done "smartly" and without unnecessarily restricting national and personal freedoms.

* * *

What every good WA Author can agree on, however, is that their resolutions should be obeyed, hence an established consensus on non-compliance.

The modern WA General Assembly has an obsession with compliance, giving rise to "the compliance state," layers of overlapping bureaucratic agencies in all levels of government that support the enforcement and dissemination of WA legislation (e.g., WAJC, WACC, IAO, WASO, WALDS, Read the Resolution Act). A shift occurred from the GA's emphasis on human rights enforcement (e.g., ICC, ICMP, and the ITA) in the early 2010s, which was concerned with serious rights violations, to a broader concern with all compliance enforcement in the late 2010s, which naturally involves more technical and purely regulatory violations. Today, defendants accused of labelling meat wrong are tried and adjudicated by the same plethora of agencies that deal with genocide and human trafficking.

Authors will often hold non-compliant nations in contempt as international “villains,” that deserve to be denied services, basic protections, and WA commendations. Realistically though, the root of non-compliance is, more likely than not, poverty, a lack of state capacity, or religious convictions. No nation, for instance, reasonably wants to live with asbestos, it’s just cheap, durable, and available. This lack of nuance in terms of when non-compliance is conceivable and when it is not, is reminiscent of higher-order Discordification. In effect, the General Assembly has unwittingly become an institution for rich, developed countries that overlooks poverty and the difficulties that developing countries, desperate for membership in an important international development body, may face in trying to implement expensive WA regulation.

This generation of WA Authors often challenges the orthodoxy of the past, like the Ideological Ban rule (good riddance), and non-compliance (which at one was believed to be metagaming), they've successfully repealed GA#10 (also good riddance) and seem open to repealing GA#2 and launching a peacekeeping program. But rarely this generation challenges its own present orthodoxy where there are just as many sacred cows to slay. Does the increasing number of resolutions really excuse a lack of an overriding philosophy to what issues the WA is pursuing? Is the WA overreaching? Is it ignoring inequality and poverty? Is non-compliance intrinsically evil? Is the World Assembly inadvertently criminalizing poverty?

To answer Hulldom's initial question - what new paradigmatic schism should come to replace the divisions of old? For me, the answer lies in global inequality. I would hope to see the rise of liberal internationalists committed to building a 'new social order' whereby developed and developing member-states work cohesively to preserve human security. Their efforts would stand in contrast to technocratic internationalists concerned, primarily from the perspective of developed member-states, in the role that regulation and scientific and technological development can play in bettering the lives of its citizens. The recent repeal of "Minimum Standard of Living Act" marks a critical moment, in that if replaced, the replacement could spark an important conversation over the purpose of the WA General Assembly. I for one say, down with the compliance state - and selective technocracy begone!
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:38 am, edited 9 times in total.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:49 pm

The Future of the WA Security Council

"We the Peoples of the Security Council, perceiving the short history of the Security Council so far, as an unsteady beginning -- one full of uncertainty and hesitancy; recalling the World Assembly, and at least one historical institution before that, whose beginnings were equally as unsteady; aware of the difference between the Security Council and these successful establishments lies not in their ideals, but their organization; determining that a higher degree of self-determination, and freedom is thus necessary for a successful establishment..." - Liberate the Security Council, SC#9


At the time of writing, the WA Security Council appears set to pass the "Historical Region Act" which calls for new protections under interregional law for twenty-four remaining pre-founder user-created regions, and the authorization of 'Caretaker Conservation Administrations (CCAs)', essentially neutral historical societies, to act as custodians and conserve such regions where no native government has survived. Upon passage, "Historical Region Act" (co-authored by Lenlyvit and Xanthal) will join a very exclusive company of WASC Declarations, including SC#358 (Advancement of Anti-Fascist Action) and SC#403 ("Against Inflationary Practices") that are serious in tone and do not primarily concern the World Assembly itself.

Most WASC Declarations, since the new Declaration category has been introduced last year, have simply been recaps of recent events (SC#379, SC#370, SC#369), concerned the World Assembly solely (SC#378, SC#359), or have simply been joke proposals (SC#361). SC#407 designated an International Maxtopia Day. Pretty light fare, overall. Meanwhile, the WA Security Council has rejected declarations since 2021 on interregional recruitment, card heisting, quorum raiding, griefing, raider unity, and the first attempt of "Historical Region Act."

Thus, "Historical Region Act" is not only a ground-breaking piece of legislation, but will shoulder much of the responsibility of demonstrating the authority of the WA Security Council and testing its capacity to initiate interregional action. The act also established a foundational precedent in the WA Security Council regarding how its secretariat will deal with the designation of committees and organizations via a WA Declaration. The discussion and planning that produced the final legislation and the efforts of its co-author, Xanthal, showed how the WA Security Council can bring forward working compromises on important interregional issues that brings together disparate views to address present problems.

As it enters its twentieth year, the anniversary serves as a reminder to players in NationStates of the stark realties facing 'historic' user-created regions whose native communities may have been absent from the game for a longer period of time than they were active; it is hoped, CCAs, inspired by the work to preserve the previously war-torn and troubled 'Christmas' region, could offer a creative response to the challenges these historical regions face in trying to balance the competing demands of security, preservation, and renewal, without a structured government or a surviving native community with a clear right to govern.

The idea of WA Declarations actually predates the creation of WA Security Council by a week. I had first suggested a Declaration category as "Legislation" categories and later again as a "Document" category concerning general interregional law with different areas of scope (memorandums/treaties/conventions). It was my hope that Gameplay interregional law, like C.O.P.S, could be recodified by the WA Security Council officially and the WA Security Council could use this "blank canvas" category to legislate on important Gameplay issues and initiate grander international efforts, like multilateral conferences, courts, and commissions. Admittedly, I didn't have hippos and apocalyptic crabs much in mind when I first dreamt up the idea of the category, but... that's NationStates for you!

In my mind, the relatively 'slow start' for WA Declarations that we've seen is a reflection of the current problems with Discordification that plagues NS Gameplay, but also longstanding problems with the WA Security Council itself post-Rule IV. Today's NationStates, under the influence of Discordification, increasingly resolves disagreements and problems off-line between players, rather than addressing these issues in-game in a formal way between nations and regions. Since 2010, the WA Security Council has also suffered almost continuously from a lack of direction and a lack of an established community of regulars, which the creation of an "Ideas for SC Resolutions" thread (2017) sought to resolve. Too often the WA Security Council has presented itself as simply an easier forum for passing resolutions, inviting a revolving door of authors coming and going, without nurturing a community of its own that asks the bigger questions surrounding the institution...

What is the purpose of the WA Security Council? Who is it for? How neutral should the WA Security Council be? What balance should be struck between humour and substance? How Gameplay-centric should it be? Are condemnations rewards or indictments or both? Should the WA Liberation category be used preemptively or offensively, and when? Are there major issues in NS Gameplay that the WA Security Council can respond to via a Declaration? What is within the appropriate scope of a WA Declaration? These, among many other questions, would invite thought-provoking essays and discussion if a community of regulars with a stake in the WA Security Council had survived its inception. The council is an institution that was created as a makeshift resolution to an accidental crisis. It was born out of compromise, not intention. As an institution, it is as 'uncertain and hesitant' as I recall it a decade ago.

I regret letting the first attempt at creating an SC-centric region die, and I'd hope to see more content created to draw a community of regulars in, whether that means roleplays or ambassador indexes, or a "commendation club" etc.

The WA Security Council has great potential, even greater so with the introduction of the Declaration category, and it is my sincerest hope that one day it will mature into a mighty power within NationStates, confident in itself and its destiny. May its humanitarian spirit of peace and goodwill shine through those corridors of glass forevermore. A focused, emboldened WA Security Council could serve as an antidote to the problems of Discordification and an NS Gameplay that has lost itself to its own chattering class. Declarations could re-centre NS Gameplay around ideas, in-game politicking, and divisions over the right to self-determination. Let us help NS Gameplay return to game-playing. The WA Security Council now has the power to reshape the political landscape and direct new commissions, courts, conferences, or even coalitions of the willing, and reconstitute the interregional sphere around NationStates the game, not NationStates the Discord server.

The effort that Lenlyvit and Xanthal have made marks, in my mind, a brave step towards the future of the WA Security Council as a place where the world's big decisions are made and important compromises are struck. The way in which these co-authors, Lenlyvit and Xanthal, came together on this issue of pre-founder regions' security and revitalization, despite being diametrically opposed initially, demonstrates to us all how disagreements can be overcome on an international forum through legitimate debate and discussion. They came to understand that their perspectives were not so different after all, there was indeed common agreement that these old, historic regions ought to be protected, and that the goal of active conservation and revitalization is fraught with difficulties and doesn't neatly fit within the conventions of raiding and defending. The WA Security Council may still be young, but it is already proving the possibilities for compromise, reform, and international governance.


So You Wanna Start a Movement, Eh?

You read the title - so, you wanna build a movement, eh?

Now I know what you're thinking: why should I get advice from you on this? Who are you anyways? Why have you written 15,000 words of this crap? Why shouldn't I get advice on building a movement from someone currently thriving and successful in NationStates? You're just gonna have to trust me dude, you want advice from a complete has-been: we know all the best ways you can ruin your life and have fun while doing it.

If we're going to change NationStates and revive the spirit of conflicting ideas and philosophy, it will depend on the commitment of future generations of players to build the movements of tomorrow.

What is a movement? To clarify, a movement isn't just a region, but a region might be a part of a movement. I don't know a damn thing about recruiting and telegram rates and stuff, and I suggest if you want to know more about how you can grow a region in terms of recruits, you should speak with someone who understands what the hell a stamp is. A movement is a cause, a call for action. It's about making people believe that there is something out there that is greater than themselves and persuading them to act. Making a movement is music, not bricklaying. You need a motif ... harmony... timing ... composition. You have to strike a chord!

Let's just dive right in -

1) Don't rush to name it, focus on capturing its essence first

If you're like me, your instinct will be to want to rush to come up with a name for your new movement. Don't! Names are hard - they have to be general without being boring, original but not idiosyncratic.

Start first by deciding what kind of atmosphere or dynamic you want for your movement. Do you want to create a "family" that is patriarchal (with you at the head of course) or a "mafia," maybe you want something more horizonal, like a revolutionary cadre? How professional is it supposed to be? How connected is your personality going to be to the organization? Are you building a kind of beer hall where everyone is loud and you're the loudest voice? A business that tracks individual performance? A secret society? A boy scouts club where you earn badges? Or a garage band where friends of varying talents and skills come together to play? A guerilla boycott? A spy ring? A multi-level marketing scheme?

Obviously, I don't mean that you're actually creating a literal 'garage band' or family or whatever, but on an abstract level, you should have an understanding of what this movement is going to "be" like. Once you've established the intended dynamic, it becomes easier to tie a theme or a name or symbolism to suit it. If you develop a theme, name etc. before you have the dynamic settled, there may be a disconnect between what you want to project to the world, and what you're actually projecting.

2) Avoid -ism's

Be careful that you don't get too academic or identify your movement with an -ism (e.g., Defenderism, Postmodernism). Movements that are too intellectualized are removed from daily practice: you want a working movement. Instead, use -ism's for your opponents. You can attach -ism's to their philosophies and rename their movements to sound more academic or intellectual. Ism's and the perception of "ideology" hurts the credibility of a movement as it diminishes the cause to a set of competing beliefs or a religion among many religions. You want your movement to be regarded as more than just a belief, you want it to be seen as the truth.

3) Develop your own language

Darkspawn. Fendas. Fash-bashing. R/D. Puppet dumps. Hawking. Regionalist. Native. Cosmo. Indies. Griefing. Update-bending. Banhammer. Shiny badge.

Effective movements develop a language of their own to describe concepts that otherwise lack names of their own, or language that casts derision or affirmation on a subject. This can also mean repeating loaded phrases: independents talk about "dogma," defenders talk about "wanton" and "malicious" attacks, raiders talk about "control" and "victory." Language can act as short-hand to convey a movement's way of thinking in fewer words and works to draw people in, unknowingly, into thinking of a subject with your intended connotation. In particular, I suggest punchy verbs or nouns laden with the connotation you want to convey (I apologize to Evil Wolf for inventing the term "piling"). Bonus points for language that is homonymic and draws unconscious connections with a distinct stimuli. Take for instance, "Userite": "user" refers to user-created regions, but it's especially effective because users "use" things (exploit) and -ite may even conjure up an image of a termite or parasite. No doubt this effect is unintentional, but it works. Another example is "bloc" (e.g., Third Wall Bloc) which may emphasize the strength or unity of something in being homonymously linked to "block."

4) Be topical, be timely

To compel players to want to get involved, I strongly suggest drawing connections and inferences between your movement and recent events or issues. Don't just launch into your "ninety-five theses" without context or a catalyst. Adapt your movement to today's technology, player culture, and the ways in which the game has changed. Make the changes and recent developments that have occurred to NationStates work for you, rather than trying to work against it.

5) The principle of the movement should be simple and evocative

You invariably will want to pitch a journey that you expect a person or group to take, perhaps it is heroic - "good people rising up against domination, exploitation, or conspiracy" or perhaps it is meritocratic -"discover your true potential. Best the best." A movement is not propelled by paragraphs and paragraphs of commentary, a simple, seductive clarion call is sufficient to inspire people. The world is chaotic, people often lack direction, promise them purpose, extract substance, clarity - a new understanding - from turmoil. A movement promises self-growth, or conquest, liberation, or justice. There is usually an antagonist within this narrative that you will need to expand on (give them fangs), and a foil is also necessary: you have to contrast yourself with others, which leads me into my next point...

6) Establish how this movement is different

To inspire people to get involved, there must be an original aspect at the core of your movement or otherwise it will look like yesterday's leftovers; this may also mean making an effort to dispel common criticisms or arguments. Perhaps you're experimenting with a new model for organizing collective action that transcends the conventional. Perhaps you will have a new reward or command structure. Perhaps the essential character or expectations are different from your predecessors. You may find it helps to look at reference material for inspiration: for instance, I read the "Book of Chivalry" by Geoffroi de Charny when I was creating the UDL to help texture the organization with the old-world ethos and culture that I wanted to emulate.

7) Smaller integrants makes for a stronger whole

Like the strength of metals and grain size, the more your movement depends on the cooperation of other groups or regions, the more trouble you will encounter in sustaining and initiating it because it is more difficult to maintain the cooperation of groups of actors than it is single actors themselves. Regions lose focus or change their priorities after elections; internal discussions within regions initiated by anyone, regardless of their official role, can lead regions towards a different direction entirely than what their executives hope if they lose control of the conversation. People themselves will often bring the same value or more to your movement as larger integrants, like regions or organizations, and they'll be more committed contributors. You're welcome to launch a super-organization of regions with a mega-assembly and everything, if you feel inspired to do so, but you should know before you commit to that idea that you'll put more energy into it, herding the cats, than what you get out of it.

8) Begin your outreach early, publicly launch on your own time

Before you launch, talk to a lot of friends and potential supporters and advocates - get them on board. Cash in your I.O.U's. Be inclusive and invite a lot of different people you know to pull them in, don't be shy. A public launch to unveil your movement and post an essay or something may seem important, but it is actually the least important step of inspiring a movement because your public launch will take place in an environment where many gameplayers already have many established commitments and/or biases - you may receive a positive or negative response overall, but your success will depend not on its immediate public reception but on how much of your own personal network you can bring on board before you launch and the work you commit to long after the launch to continue to expand that network and sustain the movement's relevancy.

9) State a mission statement clearly

During your public launch, dedicate a few lines to describing your mission statement clearly which builds on the theme and the narrative that you want to share with the world. You can even have participants sign-on to the mission statement directly or provide an oath for them to swear.

10) Survival depends on active communication

Why has the Grey Wardens endured for so long as the major defending movement in NationStates? I've heard many folks try to answer this. The answer is the update reports. I'm not joking. It's the reports. Their reports never stop. They're always front and centre with another regular update. Movements achieve immortality through reports. Keep pushing your name, your ideas, and recent developments. The survival of the movement depends on the efforts made to keep it relevant, and one key to maintaining relevancy in the minds of players is continuous communication and outreach.

11) Facilitate the passions and interests of others

Players within your movement will naturally bring their own skills and interests with them. Find a way to incorporate those talents into your movement as it will benefit both the movement and its members mutually. Maybe it's as simple as inviting someone to make a new logo for you, or start a podcast, or have them compose an anthem, or crunch some data. Facilitating these skills can have many positive spinoffs for your movement that you would not originally have foreseen, and it builds a connection and a loyalty between these players and your brand.

12) Extend the olive branch

Inevitably, when you launch a new movement successfully, there will be hard feelings if some other group gets displaced. In my experience, managing these feelings of resentment and bitterness is a challenge and the failure to do so can form an obstacle against your movement. It'd be wise to extend an olive branch in these circumstances to try to keep the peace; I also recognize that this can be difficult to do if you feel resentment or contempt towards the other party.

13) Find your voice

I remember one time I visited a self-described political consultant somewhere deep in the Forks of the Credit in "The Grange" - a rich equestrian neighborhood where the gates are as tall as the driveways are long. The consultant lived in a mansion there that he couldn't afford to heat (he claimed successful people thrived in the cold). He was frankly a bit of a charlatan, all the memorable people are charlatans - and he greeted me and the rest of the group with these wild, hypnotic blue eyes. After making some outlandish claims, boasting he had advised Bill Clinton and AOC, he hinted not so subtly that we should buy one of his nineteen books on leadership. But I'll never forget what he said to me. He said people want to be led, they don't know it but they crave leadership and hate weakness. People, he said, have an instinctual sense of weakness, they smell it off others and they detest it unconsciously. So be clear, be strong in your words and your actions, and be tangible in connecting your vision to the realities that people live and experience.

I didn't buy one of his books, so I can't elaborate further on how to be a leader. But know that the success of your movement will depend on leadership.

Leadership provides the voice for your movement: leadership seeks to bring people together, motivate them, and make them aware of how their work and their commitment is advancing the cause. You have to be a person that people want to believe in. You have to reach out and make connections with players everywhere, including in communities different from your own, to sell your ideas not just to a few eyeballs in a familiar Discord room or a forum, but to the whole wide, weird world of NationStates. Bonne chance! And have fun.


Growing Up With NationStates: Some Lessons Learned

If I'm being honest, the loneliest and most depressing time in my life (so far!) was 2016. I had just left university and I was coming home from a whirlwind Euro trip to settle down to an unfulfilling job and I found myself passing the time with thoughts that I had no outlet to meaningfully engage with. For the first time since I was fifteen, I was no longer immersed in NationStates, a game that I had spent the whole of my adolescence and late student years in. I grew up with NationStates - quite literally, I had back acne when I first joined NationStates.

Leaving the game as an active participant was a part of a larger coming-of-age moment in my life, where I had to make some important decisions about who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do with my life. On reflection, NationStates played a significant role in shaping the direction of my life, and I will always be grateful for the lessons I learned here about myself, about others, about people, and groups, and politics. I've always come back to NationStates even just as a casual observer as I owe a lot to it.

This was the place where I first discovered my passion for politics.

I remember many years ago being so young I could barely string together two coherent clauses together to write a WA resolution, but I would watch the votes being cast in the World Assembly and I would take note of what drove the successful passage of resolutions and at what point votes reached a tipping point. I called it "stacking" when a delegate voted early for a resolution and "stomping" when a delegate voted against a resolution (note: stomping was inherently a negative word because I liked passing resolutions). The grease, the mud, and feces, everything that you had to swim through to make something happen in politics -- I fell in love with it.

I learned that politics was about people, but more specifically about corralling people together around an idea: luckily for me you didn't need to be the smartest person or the most well spoken, you just needed to never give up and you needed a certain instinct of whose support you needed, and how to get it. Success in politics is like a caesarean section. Ideas aren't just born, they're delivered. They come into this world, screaming, crying, and with their momma's guts on the floor. And everyone will doubt you until everyone says they believed in you all along.

It's silly to admit, but the process of politics is something that spoke to me on an almost spiritual level, I've found more purpose in it than anything else in my life. I remember, again when I was very young that I built a sort of rolodex of delegates who I decided I needed to court to pass legislation. There were steps to courting a delegate. First, I learned you needed to research a delegate - I would look at posts in the past where they discussed why they voted for or against a resolution - so I could learn to effectively pitch a resolution to them in particular. Next, I found it was important to develop a personal friendship with the delegate outside of the context of the politicking, so they were more comfortable speaking with me about my resolutions and felt more inclined to want to help support them. Persuading a delegate to come around to a new resolution was a process that needed to start early, perhaps even before a draft was published, so I could incorporate their feedback into a draft on a one-on-one basis.

In cases where I couldn't persuade a delegate, I found I could bargain a delegate to help me out in an indirect way - that might mean persuading them to vote late on a resolution when its passage was assured or abstaining altogether. And sometimes, I found, what was holding a delegate back from doing something to support me wasn't actually a lack of a desire to help, but a need to save face with their own supporters. If you could figure out how they could save face, you could convince a delegate to get on board. In one case I convinced a raider delegate to vote for a WA Liberation by advising him to tell everyone I bribed him with freshly-baked RL cookies (no cookies were exchanged). In another case I convinced a delegate to pretend they were on vacation and couldn't vote for a resolution in time.

My preferred debate style was always to never climb down, even when some of my facts turn out to be wrong, I stuck to the principle of my point resolutely; since people have a natural tendency to want to come to an agreement, over the course of a debate, I've found I could slowly incorporate their points as a justification for my points, until a person's natural urge to find some kind of resolution to the disagreement kicked in, and they just began to concede, even if the conclusion was vastly differently than what they were initially proposing. It doesn't work on everyone, but I found that if you keep at it, it often gets the persuadable and honest people to come around on a controversial point. Ultimately, over the course of my time in NationStates, I found I'm not only not a good lawyer but I don't have a knack for building and defending a sound logical argument, and I credit NationStates for convincing me not to pursue law school.

When you're in the business of persuading regular people, these arguments are inherently messier than a court of law. The arguments that really change people's minds are not strong arguments on paper, they're theoretically incoherent, but they have a simple emotional core that compels people to want to believe. People want to believe in fairness, in opportunity, in community, and hope.

When I got involved with NS Gameplay, it became more difficult to be an author in the World Assembly as I could no longer be a neutral figure that played both sides of the aisle for votes: I was a public figure in my own right sitting firmly on one side of the aisle. But the process of politics that I learned stuck with me. Know the rules. What is necessary to make something happen? Who has the power? Research them. Befriend. Persuade. Bargain. And never hesitate to help the principal save face.

My time as Chair of the Assembly in the South Pacific was probably my favorite 'political' experience in NationStates. As chair, I found I could stall legislation that I didn't want passed until the temperature of the debate had cooled and its momentum had stalled, and I could quickly expedite legislation I wanted to pass quietly or tack it along as a part of a larger amendment.

I was more influential as chair than I was as delegate! The title of "delegate" is alluring and attractive, but it comes only with as much power as the most obstinate cranks in your legislature - a few unelected citizens can derail the legislative agenda of any well-meaning delegate by talking an idea into the ground and testing the patience of the leader or their representative.

I've always been fond of historical political leaders that had strong convictions for reform and strong-armed and cajoled the legislature and the press, but the reality is most delegates in NationStates lack convictions of their own altogether. There are a few types of delegates you'll inevitably come across: there are 'siphons' that breeze through their mandates by using other people for their ideas and labour, there are weak-minded 'ciphers' who are themselves used by other people (as they lack their own ideas or will), there are 'weathervanes' that zig and zag all across the board depending on what they feel is the prevailing public sentiment or whoever they spoke with last, there are 'feel-goods' that are friends of everyone and succeed because they are easy to get along with, and there a lot of 'burnouts' who are absent throughout their term entirely.

The thing most delegates have in common is they're all desperate for help, support, and direction from their functionaries.

If I was prepared for someone else to get the credit, I learned sometimes all you needed to do was spell an idea out to a leader - most of them are starved for good ideas. They won an election on "more culture engagement" and "reenergizing our foreign affairs" and they're as clueless as anyone else as to what that was supposed to mean. The delegates who are most difficult to influence are the ones who carefully try to preserve their image as a political moderate or as a "fun-loving" care-bear -- it's easier to convince those folks to do nothing than it is do something. You may have to manage who has the ear of the leader. I faked polls in the past to load the dice (nothing recently!). Or you can simply run a white paper or a blog post as a trial balloon. In the case of TRR (and TEP) adopting an official defender alignment, a public petition was all I needed to initiate those reforms.

I recall one time I wanted to create "RRA Day" as a regional holiday in the Rejected Realms, as I thought it would be a good annual opportunity to recruit for the RRA. But the "RRA Day" idea was not very popular: the non-defenders didn't like it because it emphasized the region's defender leanings, the defenders didn't like it because it indirectly involved the government in promoting the RRA. To get the idea passed, I rolled the pill in peanut butter like I was feeding it to a dog - I tacked the RRA Day on the bottom of a bill that created two much more popular holidays, Kandarin Day and Constitution Day. Today, nobody celebrates Kandarin Day or Constitution Day, it was fluff that facilitated the passage of RRA Day.

Not every trick works though, and some can blow up in your face. I've wiped up more than my fair share of egg off myself. Take for instance, the NS World Fair. I loved the NS World Fair and the idea of people getting together in one convention "floor" and celebrating NationStates. To prevent the North Pacific from boycotting the NS World Fair though I invented a planning "committee" and named board members whose presence in name only would deter a boycott from key regions. The committee had no involvement in the planning of the NS World Fair and weren't consulted on anything. Some didn't even attend the fair! But in 2015, when I tried to name Charles Cerebella and Kringalia as my succeeding co-presidents, the "committee" reemerged from the ashes to claim they were the rightful administrators of the fair. The chickens had come home to roost! There is a debt to be collected when you use someone else's credibility to suit your own ends.

More importantly, NationStates taught me more than just the tricks and trades of politics, it taught me through experience that if you're not careful, you can hurt the people around you and let yourself down. If you take anything away from this little essay, take away that people are fundamentally owed respect. I had to learn the hard way that thinking you're a "good person" doesn't mean you're incapable of hurting people and misusing them, even people you really care a lot about. Being a responsible person requires a more conscious effort to respect others. Too often lying or evading responsibility presented an easy, convenient option, that pumped endorphins into my brain every time I got away with something I had convinced myself I should get away with - because, after all, "I'm a good person," right?

I also learned to control my temper thanks to NationStates. I had a particularly bad temper. And mark my words: if you have a temper, it will sink you. Some people love to exploit it and you will say things you regret. You will lash out at people who don't deserve it and it diminishes the perception that other people have of you.

Oh, and another bit of advice: you can't get everyone in the world to like you! There were so many times in NationStates where I was desperately driven by wanting the whole world to like me - this is a common trait among people in politics and maybe it's what inspires us to get into politics in the first place. But you'll never get the whole world to love you. And you can't let your inability to be liked universally feed a perception in your own head that everyone is against you and that your back is against the wall. There will be reasonable disagreements, not everything is personal, and not everything personal should be taken personally - sometimes people are unreasonable, sometimes they're upset with something unrelated. Step back and take a deep breath.

I could expound at length about what I like about politics. Although it can appear unscrupulous and manipulative, it's really at its best the means in which we bring people together: politicking should be a catalyst for cooperation.

A few other thoughts as I wrap up...

NationStates taught me that your friends are especially important, you don't accomplish big things without a team, and I have enjoyed the help and support of many good friends in NationStates over the years. Cherish the trust of your friends - sometimes I neglected to.

The truth doesn't just set us free, it allows us to grow beyond it - taking responsibility for mistakes is important.

Napoleon was wrong when he said “never retreat, never retract… never admit a mistake.” You will make mistakes - I certainly made mistakes! And I didn't learn from mistakes until I could admit them.


NationStates 2042

The year is 2042 and you'll be surprised to find that, yes, NationStates still exists, albeit as a kind of living tribute to a proto-internet world. An anachronism grossly out of step with contemporary web design and culture that adolescents find amusing, rather like the Space Jam website (1996).

Every once in a while someone will link the site to a third-party and a crop of youngsters will flood in to acquaint themselves with this strange and curious corner of the internet that is older than their parents.

Why of all things did this survive, they wonder?

The first thing that new users tend to notice is that some of the 'Issues' are unintentionally hilarious. Harry Potter? TV Soaps? Smoking? Coal!? They still had coal in the 2000s!? Wild. Newcomers find it difficult to separate the satirical from the real when the moral panics over gay marriage and marijuana that the site mocks seem so far removed from their own time. It's like trying to sympathize with your grandmother's opposition to a Catholic marrying into the Protestant family.

Most users have a laugh at the use of “telegrams.” How old is this game, anyways?

The site is permanently maintained and patronized by an aging rag-tag pack of core enthusiasts, like car shows and ham-radio societies, that remember playing the game when they were teens before they were fat, married, and indebted. Every so often these silly people have a reoccurring notion to "stir things up" - "let's coup the West Pacific," they agree, or "let's start a recruitment drive, we'll send out emails - do people still read those?" But the ideas never come to fruition, in fact nobody commits to anything anymore beyond updating the FAQs. The main governing body, the player's association, is a sad place where quinquagenarians congregate online to share photos of tonight's casserole and ask questions like, "Do you remember Mahaj?".... "Do you remember Todd McCloud or Drew?" ... "Did you ever meet Kandarin?" ... which passes for substantive conversation as you get older.

Every once in a while, a famous player's son or daughter will run for the North Pacific's delegacy. Francos Spain's nephew made for something of an awkward candidate and doubts about his legitimacy continue to surface.

Our wonderful site administrator, Max Barry is still kicking and still authoring satirical books, but he's in his seventies, and a new, ambitious site administrator is waiting in the wings with delusions of reviving the site to its former glory. Unfortunately for them, nobody really wants a revival and nobody really cares.

Surprisingly the game isn't empty, per se. There's still ten thousand or so players. God knows why. But, regardless of what the elder boosters will have you think, these healthy figures mask a weakness underneath: old users have stuck around, granted, but they're paying less attention to it and putting less and less energy into the game. Also, not as many players are trying to maintain regions of their own and the remaining active nations are congregating in a few main outposts. They call that "region-crowding," and it gets worse and worse, but nothing changes and there is no agreement that it's even happening.

The thing that everyone does agree is borked is the World Assembly though. With quorum bottomed out, authors only need approvals from twenty delegates for a resolution to go to vote. Naturally, a lot of spam gets deleted. Most remaining authors admit there is a problem, but nobody agrees on an answer and nothing is ever done about it. And frankly, the WA conglomerate, PfSWAll, favours the status quo as they hold the lion's share of the approval and voting power. It’s also not much of an exaggeration to say everyone has a commendation these days. Wayneactia was commended. The guy who wrote “Commend Wayneactia” was commended. Imperium Anglorum has five commendations. The exact number of commendations stands somewhere around 900 resolutions.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) made serious advances in NationStates in the late 2020s and really started to change the way that we played. AI helps recruiters instantly identify which nations to prioritize for recruitment and which ones to avoid; bots monitor and flag for potential tarters before any human could spot them; update times are not only triggerless now, they're impossibly precise. But invading hasn't been very prominent in years anyways. It fell out of favour some time ago and the players who do invade tend to be amateurs and multiers who are very green that lack the knowhow and the technological advances to be competitive.

The surviving NationStates is a vast universe but not a dense one. There are a few active hubs that remain, a few blinking lights on the horizon, but they're surrounded by a sea of dead regions and nations and card-farms which players refer to as "ghosts." Most of these regions were passworded or hawked in the past, and their remaining constituents remain frozen in time with the assistance of log-in scripts. Over the years, some of these scripts have become inoperable, and their users have neglected to maintain them, but still, many ghosts remain, haunting these last vestiges of a dead civilization. Not to be confused with the ghosts though are the fair-sized crop of ex-regions that have endured: these regions haven't existed in fifteen years, but their residents don't seem to be aware or all that concerned for that matter, and they continue to chat offline ... always talking about the "golden era" and the wars and conflicts and names that time forgot.

You see, people don't really play the game anymore, I mean you have your issue-takers, and some people still run roleplays and chat on the forums, but years ago, at a point that nobody can remember ('Curious Observations' blames runaway card inflation and the Great Crash of 2027), players just gradually stopped playing and started preserving. Oh, they run for office, sure, but only to keep the seats warm, they update the WFE every once in a while, and maybe, when they're feeling ambitious they'll run a quiz or mini-game or two to keep the lights on, but mostly people just chat. Eventually as you get older, the time between when you meet-up with your friends next grows from a day to a year to a decade, and the plans you have to meet-up next get hazier and hazier. NationStates turned middle-aged, that's all.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 am, edited 6 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
North Cromch
Envoy
 
Posts: 235
Founded: Apr 22, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby North Cromch » Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:19 am

My thinking is blow it up - make the marketplace, a marketplace for NationStates. Allow players to submit their own items and artwork for loot boxes. Allow regions to auction off executive powers. Sell special NS Issues. Unlock new macros to customize your nation further. Create regional treasuries so delegates can build their own portfolios, tax residents, and distribute earnings or items.

I really like this marketplace idea you have put forward.

User avatar
Galiantus III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1453
Founded: Jan 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus III » Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:54 am

Unibot III wrote:How many frontiers will there be, and how disproportional will the distribution be, will ultimately determine its sustainability as a system. My guess, and it is only a guess, is there will be a central tendency towards there being too many active frontiers to generate significant gains over time for most or all frontier regions. That is to say that there may be dozens of frontiers qualifying for enough share of the allocation that there will be too little butter to spread across the toast. Moreover, players are very innovative - in a competitive system designed to maximize input, regions will organically work towards optimizing the share of nations their frontiers are receiving under the hidden criteria, which will in time cancel the fruits of each other's labour collectively.

As a supporter of Frontiers in general, I think you are ultimately right because of the specifics of implementation - possibly even worse than you are suggesting. Because of [violet]'s pet demands, I think you'll see individual players maintaining active, spawning frontiers to direct new players to their Strongholds - my personal estimate is we'll see hundreds, not dozens, such regions. The one silver lining is I think that will be short-lived, since Admin will want to remedy the problem when it becomes apparent.

My suggestion to Sedgistan and the game developers would be to consider allocating nations not on the basis of a common denominator that is rejigged or subject to a multiplier, but assigning a fixed allocation to the 'order' that frontier regions find themselves in based on sequence of the "most qualifying" to the "least qualifying" frontiers. For instance, the "top" frontier might receive one half of the allocation, the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-quarter of the allocation, then the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-eight, and the next one-sixteenth, and so on, then distribute the remainder evenly to all frontiers. This fixed approach would ensure that the model predictably produced an allocation that was valuable to top performing frontiers in spite of the entry of new frontiers and natural competition between frontiers.

The proposal as stated also depends on a level of conflict that is unrealistic. The proposal assumes enough conflict and military engagements between frontiers to reduce competition artificially, and the proposal also assumes that military activity in current founderless regions (that will soon have the power to replace their departing founders) will be sufficiently displaced by new military activity in frontier regions. But in today's NationStates, conflict between major regions is uncommon and taboo, and even in regions like Warzones (e.g., Warzone Asia, Warzone Sandbox) that used to be thought as a free-for-all, it is the philosophy du jour to defend these regions just as other regions. Frontiers will also have a more sophisticated security apparatus than the typical founderless region, which can be inactive and dormant, which will deter and obstruct many invasions and upheavals that might be possible in an environment where the region's security isn't as professionalized.

This is getting into technical stuff, but I'd personally suggest a hierarchy based on the length of time a frontier has been continuously a part of the spawning pool. And I think going by halves is a bit steep - I'd probably say go by thirds or fourths instead. If invading a region can bump them off the stack, there's an incentive for frontiers lower on the stack to team up against those above to dethrone them.

We should ask ourselves what is NationStates missing? Perhaps, it's lacking a source of 'scarcity' between regions, like an economic or trade system, that independently justifies conflict? Perhaps, we shouldn't just be focused on seizing delegacies but considering other tools of disruption and aggression that would allow regional adversaries to impact one another without necessarily occupying the region?

I personally think this is a more accurate take than your idea of "Discordification". If you look at other games that use instant communication, you will see that conflict isn't hampered by communication. When mechanics promote conflict, players engage in it regardless how easily they can communicate and engage with the larger community of the game. Why would it be that NationStates is any different? The problem is we don't have something to independently justify conflict. Conflict has to be contrived. That is the whole problem. And that is why I think Frontiers is a great step in the right direction. There are certainly more effective ideas out there, but within the current paradigm of gameplay I think Frontiers is something that can be compelling.
The goal of Socialism is Fascism.
#JKRowling #realfeminism #libertarian #conservative #christian #nomandates

Frisbeeteria wrote:
For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.
Ballotonia wrote:
Testing is for sissies. The actual test is to see how many people complain when any change is made ;)

User avatar
The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:29 pm

Well here I was about to write a long post myself on the 10th anniversary of my joining NS tomorrow, but you appear to have pre-empted some of that :D


The Brave New Frontier wrote:.

Arguably, the implicit assumptions of the Frontier/Stronghold proposal reflects Sedgistan's worldview as a gameplayer. In the past, Sedgistan has shared that he sees game-created regions as static, stagnant, and bloated, and user-created regions as lean, innovative, and competitive. Last year, for instance, he wrote "the feeder regions have grown too large. It stifles gameplay having such a significant amount of power concentrated in a small number of regions, and their significant inbuilt recruitment advantage impedes the ability of others to grow dynamic, interesting new regions (whether gameplayers or not). Feeders are great for occasional scheming and significant political events, but the real creativity in NationStates tends to come from player-created regions. It's also bad on a technical level having such bloated regions."

In an earlier post (2010), pre-Devonitians, Sedgistan complained that "feeders have been stagnant for far too long to be interesting," and that feederites had a risk-adverse mentality. The introduction of Regional Influence, he argued then, was the root of inactivity within feeder regions. Game-created regions, under this line of thinking, are like public sector entities, and user-created regions are the private sector: the former may manage a public good, but the latter produces and distributes other goods more efficiently and with far more innovation under the pressure of competition and budget constraints.

I would personally tend to agree with Sedge. UCR's need to work to maintain some kind of appeal to attract new members. GCRs need no such thing because they get a bunch of free nations daily. The way welcome TGs work also contributes to this: even with the delivery of GCR welcome TGs being pushed back a few minutes, puppets I create/refound almost always receive the welcome TG before any UCR recruitment TGs, with some rare exceptions. I brought this up in the Technical forum some time ago and was expectedly met with resistance to change from a number of GCR government members, who still somehow think that they have it hard enough with nation retention. Obviously they have not spent much time recently in a UCR that's trying to grow.

The Brave New Frontier wrote:Unfortunately, I think any players expecting the Frontier/Stronghold proposal to revolutionize NationStates will be disappointed. There are clear red flags on the horizon that indicate the introduction of Frontiers will not bring the value that players may be expecting, indeed the whole plan is underestimating the realities of today's NS Gameplay - genuine new immigration is rarer and the game itself is even more conflict-averse then when Sedgistan complained about it a decade ago. When the taps are turned on, new frontiers can expect to receive not just new nations, but a sizeable chunk of dead puppet nations and other puppet nations that quickly relocate: these nations (which feeder regions already receive in great numbers) are in many ways responsible for why game-created regions are the way they are, in that there are so few players present to engage with the region or regional government substantively. User-created regions may appear lean and innovative, but it helps that they receive a cross-section of the most engaged and most enthusiastic of newcomers through outreach and recruitment.

Growth will be more limited than imagined: approximately 1000-1500 nations are currently created a day. So, naturally around 500-750 nations will be divvied up daily between the game's frontier regions on an uneven basis. Out of these 500-750 nations, we can reasonably expect that 200-300 nations will relocate shortly after being founded, and 350-500 nations will stay relatively dormant and cease-to-exist within a month. Shockingly, the daily difference between the number of nations going "in" and going "out" of a feeder regions trends towards zero. A frontier would need two-fifths of the maximum frontier allocation to intake as many nations as a regular feeder does today, and a full one-fifth to match the intake of a feeder at half-rate.

How many frontiers will there be, and how disproportional will the distribution be, will ultimately determine its sustainability as a system. My guess, and it is only a guess, is there will be a central tendency towards there being too many active frontiers to generate significant gains over time for most or all frontier regions. That is to say that there may be dozens of frontiers qualifying for enough share of the allocation that there will be too little butter to spread across the toast. Moreover, players are very innovative - in a competitive system designed to maximize input, regions will organically work towards optimizing the share of nations their frontiers are receiving under the hidden criteria, which will in time cancel the fruits of each other's labour collectively.

My suggestion to Sedgistan and the game developers would be to consider allocating nations not on the basis of a common denominator that is rejigged or subject to a multiplier, but assigning a fixed allocation to the 'order' that frontier regions find themselves in based on sequence of the "most qualifying" to the "least qualifying" frontiers. For instance, the "top" frontier might receive one half of the allocation, the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-quarter of the allocation, then the next frontier in the sequence would receive one-eight, and the next one-sixteenth, and so on, then distribute the remainder evenly to all frontiers. This fixed approach would ensure that the model predictably produced an allocation that was valuable to top performing frontiers in spite of the entry of new frontiers and natural competition between frontiers.

I'm more optimistic about frontiers than you are. The initial implementation is going to be a mess, especially given the impossibility of play-testing the political implications prior to launch. Admin can only ensure that the actual code functions properly, and not much beyond that. All it could take is a small group of bold players to completely disrupt a nascent status quo; we can only hope that group of players is headstrong and motivated enough to survive the backlash, which is itself not a given.

The Brave New Frontier wrote:And will the proposal really address imbalances in the World Assembly? I hardly see how it can. These imbalances in terms of endorsements are baked in and will sustain themselves over the long term even as the rate of newcomers to feeder regions are cut because the proposal won't result in the endorsement gap vanishing. A tech change to NationStates cannot address voting inequality in the World Assembly substantively without either a significant shift of existing WA endorsements to other regions or a change in the voting system itself.

I would love it if the move to frontiers was concurrent with the abolishment of the current set of GCRs, but I'm aware that this is goes far beyond a fringe position and is never going to happen :P

Discordification and the Long, Never-ending Peace wrote:The main takeaway is that not only has NationStates firmly entered a new era, players are also conscious of this, even if they fear acknowledging it (or worse still, doing something about it). The Long Peace continues to reign supreme. The last "hard" coup of a feeder or sinker region was the Fedele Coup in October 2019. Surpassing more than three uninterrupted years of peace, this marks a historic milestone never before accomplished in NationStates. Seemingly the whole of Gameplay is unifying and reconstituting itself in a way that is pre-Cold War, pre-DEN, almost Neo-Antiquity: Balder has signed treaties with The League, Concord, and 10000 Islands; Europeia has revived old agreements with the South Pacific; and the North Pacific (very eloquently) declared in January of this year that it has "effectively ceased any feasible raiding activity ... (having) concluded it is currently not in our best interest to work with these (raiding) organizations, but more than that, it is not in our interest to pursue most raiding operations more generally."

This kind of open, easy cooperation and coordination between defenders, independents, neutrals, and independents constitutes a sea change in geopolitical activity. For the sake of comparison: in 2012, I privately begged Europeian officials to no avail to help the UDL and FRA forces liberate a region from literal Nazis, whereas in 2022, the ERN, LDF, and SPSF worked closely in an attempt to liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds.

Establishing itself as the pre-eminent pariah and a catalyst for unity are today's remaining invader organizations - namely, the Brotherhood of Malice (and by extension, Osiris), the Black Hawks, and Lone Wolves United, whose run-of-the-mill raids this year in Stargate and Venice, botched electoral meddling, and vague plotting (Operation Ragnarok) have inspired wide-spread outrage and condemnation.

In response to the relatively mild offense of "tipping" the delegacy of Equilism, the Modern Gameplay Compact, a new multilateral alliance between Balder, Europeia, the North Pacific, the Pacific, the West Pacific, recently took extraordinary measures to ban members of the Brotherhood of Malice and the Black Hawks from participating in any of their cultural events or being "platformed" by any media. The Modern Gameplay Compact has also initiated an unprecedented blackout on these invaders in the WA, promising unconditional support for repeals of legislation passed by these offenders and the use of targeted offensive liberations. These measures, among many things, call into question the freedom of the press in the MGC and the merit of its intervention in the WA, if major regions are endorsing the repeals of GA and SC resolutions not on the basis of the resolutions, but grudges with their authors.

I think an additional factor in this is that regionalism is functionally dead. It was on its way out in 2012 when I joined the site. In 2013 a number of GCRs were already in the cosmpolitan boat where a player finishing up a term in one region would almost immediately get a position in another, the formerly-insular imperialist and 'Independent' communities were working together via the UIAF and other treaties among each other, multi-regional (FRA) and non-regional (UDL) defender orgs were prominent, Gatesville was dead. Even TITO was opening itself up to greater cooperation with other organizations.

Even in 2013, regionalism was on its way out, and greater interaction (on a social rather than purely political level) between prominent regional players was coming in. Skype and then Discord may have sped this along and contribute to its success, but the train was already getting ready to depart the station.

Today you have much more centralization and fewer big isolated regions. Defending is almost all coordinated through Libcord, which even the ERN of all regions operates out of. A groups of 5 regions, 4 of them GCRs, have published a statement to to the effect that they will use nearly 3100 WA votes in coordination; in that statement they point to overlap in the memberships of two raider orgs as reason to sanction both rather than just one. Gatesville is still dead.

The root cause of this is cosmpolitanism, not Discord. It may be harder to come into conflict with someone because you're friends on Discord; its even more difficult to do that if you know that you and that other person will have to manage cooperation in another region while at odds in another. As large regions have coalesced into one big (although still sometimes heterogeneous) blob, the opportunities for one region to jump out become less and the consequences of doing so become greater. We may be farther down this road with Discord than we would be otherwise but Discord is a catalyst, and not the cause.


Discordification and the Long, Never-ending Peace wrote:The world is more connected, more united, and cohesive than ever before, transcending conventional geopolitical lines.

Why? Well, this cooperation, in my view, is a response to the relative organizational weakness of today's invaders (who aren't as valuable of allies as they were in the past), but also a reflection of the challenges that independent regions have increasingly faced to decompartmentalize their active support for invading abroad from their support for their own regional sovereignty and that of its allies. It's harder to navigate that political balancing act in a climate that doesn't tolerate such nuance.

As a raider, I think this misses the mark a little bit. Raiding is far from organizationally weak. Today's raiders are able to pull in record numbers of pilers (see the >150 current endorsements on the delegate of Moon, and I know we've gone higher than that this year) and have had unprecedented recent success.

I think that a big reason for the cooperation and cohesiveness of many of the big GP regions is that they're now playing what is in many ways a different game than the NSGP of the past. The years leading up to 2022 were not great for raiders; sure the technological improvements utilized really well by taggers like Lily made tag raiding soar to new heights, but occupations were impossible to sustain getting shut down quickly. To secure piling support from 'independent' regions, raiders had to sign on to a host of anti-griefing requirements. The low number of updaters needed to combat tagging and the toothlessness of occupations meant that big regions were able to de-emphasize R/D and instead focus on regional culture events, WA bureaus, card symposiums (or whatever they're called, I'm not enough 'in the know' about cards to know :P ), and so on. All of these are fundamentally non-competitive, and so can foster cooperation.

The biggest driver of conflict in the game at this moment appears to be driven by BoM, and I think it exemplifies the differences in the way the game is played then vs now. The MGC statement makes explicit that "the offended parties have mastery over a theater of conflict [the SC] where BoM’s loose mob of raiders cannot help them". Venico's statement that the R/D response from MGC regions has been lackluster was accused of being "R/D sham[ing]". Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculousness of that term, it exemplifies that BoM and the MGC signatories (4 GCRs and Europeia) fundamentally see themselves as playing different games (R/D vs SC).

What you and I view as conventional geopolitical lines that are being transcended probably appears as astonishingly quaint to newer, younger GPers. Case in point, look at the public reactions to the continued bad blood between TRR and Balder that's come up in threads this year, TRR still sees the old lines of battle but most of GP today views them as stuck in the past; this has the amusing consequence that defender TRR is the only GCR to maintain in-game embassy with raider Osiris.


Quiet Cruelty, Absent Leadership wrote:Regrettably, however, we've seen one set of problems replaced with a new problem: namely, a rise in cyberbullying and relational aggression in NationStates, which is actively being denied by some, especially those who engage in it. Merriam-Webster defines cyberbullying as the "abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful." In an online and primarily text-based game, cyberbullying manifests itself as taunting, "chirping," deliberate social exclusion by peers, and "logging" and strategically leaking out-of-context messages to embarrass victims. This so-called "invisible" form of peer group manipulation and bullying requires a higher degree of social intelligence on the part of its perpetrators than conventional verbal or physical bullying. But it is harmful, and it is primarily sought to advance the power of some for the domination of others.

For me, this problem does not simply run parallel to the overall trend of discordification but rather, it is perhaps the most harmful consequence of it.

This hits on the nose something I've been thinking about since my return to NS. When I first joined the game I joined the region Slavia. At the time, Slavia's founder was a Serb ultranationalist who wound up getting himself Delete-on-Sight for being way too public about his bloodlust for Albanians Bosnians Turks Croats Hungarians literally every single Balkan ethnic group (this is something that I'm very much not proud of in retrospect). In 2013, Slavia was allowed to join the FRA; in 2022 we'd be declared "Do-Not-Defend", logs of our misdeeds would be circulated throughout offsite channels, the region would be destroyed in a 'fash-bash' where a connection to fascism is nowhere to be found (not all unacceptable RL conduct is fascism, a distinction which seems to at times go by the wayside), and the possibility of any of the region's members to meaningfully continue their time on NS would be severely curtailed.

While accepting that serious issues of RL conduct are unacceptable (Slavia's prior community did have a serious issue which I'm glad we no longer have to deal with) I have had an issue with a number of logs that I've seen since returning to NS that I wasn't completely able to put my finger on until recently. The logs lack context. I suspect that a creative individual could have produced logs in 2013 that would've given the impression that support for ethnically cleansing Kosovo was far more prevalent in Slavia than it actually was. Certainly its true that we shouldn't have put ourselves in a position where that was even in question, but NSers of yesteryear seemed to be more willing to distinguish between individual bad actors within a region and the region as a whole.

--

Maybe I'll get to the essays in your second post later. I've spent far too much time on this one already and I have other things to get done this weekend :P
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
Hahoalki
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Jul 30, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Hahoalki » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:25 pm

In practice, a lack of protection for dissent is equivalent to an enforcement of conformity.

As long as a nation isn't advocating for physical violence against a "protected group," they should be allowed to say what they want.

As long as that isn't in place, I see no reason to get into the game play side - or even the OOC forums.
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:45 am

The North Polish Union wrote: I've spent far too much time on this one already and I have other things to get done this weekend :P


Me too! :p

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughtful feedback, I’ll be sure to respond this week.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:30 pm

Well, I gotta admit, this idea of forcibly quarantining regions from cultural events (because of simple R/D divides) is deeply concerning to me. I always liked that no matter how polarized the enemies in Gameplay were, we were able to come together and have fun at festivals and such. The deterioration of that does not bode well for Gameplay. If Gameplay is to survive, our interregional leaders will have to learn to at least tolerate each other for the health of the game. Cultural activities are what bring us together in a healthy way, and diminishing the frequency of that hurts us all. For NationStates 2042, we need to kinda get a long sometimes.
The North Polish Union wrote:The root cause of this is cosmpolitanism, not Discord. It may be harder to come into conflict with someone because you're friends on Discord; its even more difficult to do that if you know that you and that other person will have to manage cooperation in another region while at odds in another. As large regions have coalesced into one big (although still sometimes heterogeneous) blob, the opportunities for one region to jump out become less and the consequences of doing so become greater. We may be farther down this road with Discord than we would be otherwise but Discord is a catalyst, and not the cause.

I have to disagree here. I'd say the root cause is an intolerance of cosmopolitanism. This growing prevalence of excluding your region's enemies from something as harmless as a festival does more than hurt the intended targets. It hurts Gameplay as a whole. It further cements division in Gameplay, to an unreasonable extent. We can be enemies, but there's no reason we can't all take a break from that to have some fun. When it's over, everyone can be enemies again. No harm, no foul.

The North Polish Union wrote:The biggest driver of conflict in the game at this moment appears to be driven by BoM, and I think it exemplifies the differences in the way the game is played then vs now. The MGC statement makes explicit that "the offended parties have mastery over a theater of conflict [the SC] where BoM’s loose mob of raiders cannot help them". Venico's statement that the R/D response from MGC regions has been lackluster was accused of being "R/D sham[ing]". Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculousness of that term, it exemplifies that BoM and the MGC signatories (4 GCRs and Europeia) fundamentally see themselves as playing different games (R/D vs SC).

What you and I view as conventional geopolitical lines that are being transcended probably appears as astonishingly quaint to newer, younger GPers. Case in point, look at the public reactions to the continued bad blood between TRR and Balder that's come up in threads this year, TRR still sees the old lines of battle but most of GP today views them as stuck in the past; this has the amusing consequence that defender TRR is the only GCR to maintain in-game embassy with raider Osiris.

Well, the old divisions aren't as popular as they once were, and even TRR has a vocal bunch of newer players (and a few older players which are just plain sick of it) that would like to see that Iron Curtain razed. I wouldn't lay the blame of conflict between BoM and the MGC regions squarely on BoM. They're raiders, just doing what comes naturally: raiding. It's what they do. It is not unreasonable to say that the MGC regions are overreacting. Their contribution to the conflict is their unwillingness to even remotely tolerate the differences between them. It is also a major factor. This is a result of current IRL politics, which are less than ideal in a society that needs to coexist in order to survive.
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Hiram Land
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1531
Founded: May 10, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Hiram Land » Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:10 am

In love with these essays. Will share with my region.
Слава Україні!
#KyrusiaSoTrue
he/him
uwu
National Information
Unidas et Hyramalunde
Nationbuilder
Old Dispatches

Alternate: Hiramia-Omfew
_____ Hiram Land _____
Hyramas or Bust!
Thank you to Nanako Island for providing help for the signature.

Proud UFN member
RIP UNoE and UoJ

User avatar
The Orwell Society
Minister
 
Posts: 2241
Founded: Apr 16, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Orwell Society » Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:26 am

Very interesting.
The Orwell Society
Straight Male | Political Alignment: Centrist leaning conservative | NSGP Alignment: Independent | Proud Wellspringer, join The Wellspring today!

A vision without action is just a daydream

User avatar
Free Algerstonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2369
Founded: Jan 16, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Free Algerstonia » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:41 am

unibot: the nationstates equivalent of the guy in the hollywood walk of fame holding a sign full of bible verses and ranting about the rapture and the end times that nobody listens to
Last edited by Free Algerstonia on Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Z

User avatar
The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4777
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:32 am

The Church of Satan wrote:Well, I gotta admit, this idea of forcibly quarantining regions from cultural events (because of simple R/D divides) is deeply concerning to me. I always liked that no matter how polarized the enemies in Gameplay were, we were able to come together and have fun at festivals and such. The deterioration of that does not bode well for Gameplay. If Gameplay is to survive, our interregional leaders will have to learn to at least tolerate each other for the health of the game. Cultural activities are what bring us together in a healthy way, and diminishing the frequency of that hurts us all. For NationStates 2042, we need to kinda get a long sometimes.
The North Polish Union wrote:The root cause of this is cosmpolitanism, not Discord. It may be harder to come into conflict with someone because you're friends on Discord; its even more difficult to do that if you know that you and that other person will have to manage cooperation in another region while at odds in another. As large regions have coalesced into one big (although still sometimes heterogeneous) blob, the opportunities for one region to jump out become less and the consequences of doing so become greater. We may be farther down this road with Discord than we would be otherwise but Discord is a catalyst, and not the cause.

I have to disagree here. I'd say the root cause is an intolerance of cosmopolitanism. This growing prevalence of excluding your region's enemies from something as harmless as a festival does more than hurt the intended targets. It hurts Gameplay as a whole. It further cements division in Gameplay, to an unreasonable extent. We can be enemies, but there's no reason we can't all take a break from that to have some fun. When it's over, everyone can be enemies again. No harm, no foul.

I suspect that what I'm calling 'regionalism' you're calling 'cosmpolitanism' and vice-versa' :P

When I say regionalism is dead, I mean that "large regions have coalesced into one big (although still sometimes heterogeneous) blob, the opportunities for one region to jump out become less and the consequences of doing so become greater.". When you say that cosompolitanism isn't tolerated you talk about "excluding your region's enemies from something as harmless as a festival". I think we're referring to fundamentally the same phenomenon.

For me, regionalism is as simple as limiting one's involvement to a single region while cosmpolitanism is being involved in many regions. (I would say that I have always played the game in an extremely regionalist way, although I still park my main in Slavia the community is inactive for any meaningful purposes and essentially all of my NS activity goes into BoM). That is, the extent of a player's regionalism/cosmpolitanism can be measured almost empirically.

If I had to guess I would say that for you 'cosmopolitan' is far more nebulous. Based on your post above I'd guess that 'cosmpolitanism' requires some degree of openness to or tolerance for regions with differing playstyles or philosophies.

So I describe GP as cosmopolitan because so many players shuffle back and forth between regions or hold citizenship/office in multiple regions simultaneously. You describe GP as intolerant of cosmpolitanism because these same GPers are not open to their playstyle/philosophy. At the end of the day we seem to be concerned about the same trends and ultimately agree on most of the issue, but phrase our analysis in what are apparently mutually-exclusive terms.

Definitions! :p


The Church of Satan wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:The biggest driver of conflict in the game at this moment appears to be driven by BoM, and I think it exemplifies the differences in the way the game is played then vs now. The MGC statement makes explicit that "the offended parties have mastery over a theater of conflict [the SC] where BoM’s loose mob of raiders cannot help them". Venico's statement that the R/D response from MGC regions has been lackluster was accused of being "R/D sham[ing]". Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculousness of that term, it exemplifies that BoM and the MGC signatories (4 GCRs and Europeia) fundamentally see themselves as playing different games (R/D vs SC).

What you and I view as conventional geopolitical lines that are being transcended probably appears as astonishingly quaint to newer, younger GPers. Case in point, look at the public reactions to the continued bad blood between TRR and Balder that's come up in threads this year, TRR still sees the old lines of battle but most of GP today views them as stuck in the past; this has the amusing consequence that defender TRR is the only GCR to maintain in-game embassy with raider Osiris.

Well, the old divisions aren't as popular as they once were, and even TRR has a vocal bunch of newer players (and a few older players which are just plain sick of it) that would like to see that Iron Curtain razed. I wouldn't lay the blame of conflict between BoM and the MGC regions squarely on BoM. They're raiders, just doing what comes naturally: raiding. It's what they do. It is not unreasonable to say that the MGC regions are overreacting. Their contribution to the conflict is their unwillingness to even remotely tolerate the differences between them. It is also a major factor. This is a result of current IRL politics, which are less than ideal in a society that needs to coexist in order to survive.

I wasn't intending to lay the blame squarely on BoM, although my initial word choice may have made it seem like that. When I said that current conflict "appears to be driven by BoM" I wasn't trying to place blame solely on them. That being said I think that the fact that most GPers come from an Anglosphere that's increasingly normalizing extreme political polarization and hyper-reaction to one's political opponents doesn't help.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:16 am

Free Algerstonia wrote:unibot: the nationstates equivalent of the guy in the hollywood walk of fame holding a sign full of bible verses and ranting about the rapture and the end times that nobody listens to


“The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!”
“You ain’t just singing dixie!”
“Armageddon is almost upon us all!”


:p
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:41 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Free Algerstonia wrote:unibot: the nationstates equivalent of the guy in the hollywood walk of fame holding a sign full of bible verses and ranting about the rapture and the end times that nobody listens to


“The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!”
“You ain’t just singing dixie!”
“Armageddon is almost upon us all!”


:p

Armageddon outta here. xD
The North Polish Union wrote:I suspect that what I'm calling 'regionalism' you're calling 'cosmpolitanism' and vice-versa' :P

When I say regionalism is dead, I mean that "large regions have coalesced into one big (although still sometimes heterogeneous) blob, the opportunities for one region to jump out become less and the consequences of doing so become greater.". When you say that cosompolitanism isn't tolerated you talk about "excluding your region's enemies from something as harmless as a festival". I think we're referring to fundamentally the same phenomenon.

For me, regionalism is as simple as limiting one's involvement to a single region while cosmpolitanism is being involved in many regions. (I would say that I have always played the game in an extremely regionalist way, although I still park my main in Slavia the community is inactive for any meaningful purposes and essentially all of my NS activity goes into BoM). That is, the extent of a player's regionalism/cosmpolitanism can be measured almost empirically.

If I had to guess I would say that for you 'cosmopolitan' is far more nebulous. Based on your post above I'd guess that 'cosmpolitanism' requires some degree of openness to or tolerance for regions with differing playstyles or philosophies.

So I describe GP as cosmopolitan because so many players shuffle back and forth between regions or hold citizenship/office in multiple regions simultaneously. You describe GP as intolerant of cosmpolitanism because these same GPers are not open to their playstyle/philosophy. At the end of the day we seem to be concerned about the same trends and ultimately agree on most of the issue, but phrase our analysis in what are apparently mutually-exclusive terms.

Definitions! :p

My definition of cosmopolitanism is exactly the same as yours, I assure you. I was a huge cosmo back in the day (and frankly I don't see how I pulled it off now.) The more regionalist the regions leading on the world stage, despite any particular alliances, the less cosmopolitans are tolerated. The key has always been striking a balance, but the MGC regions are unbalancing it over R/D lines. It's not ideal. Am I saying it will kill Gameplay? Most certainly not. But it sets a bad example for the rest of NationStates. Other regions might follow their example and shut themselves off as well, but that's what they're going for. Communication dies down, and so does understanding. Then all anyone has left are enemies or allies, with no in-between to act as that necessary padding from all the bickering. Sooner or later, I suspect that's gonna come to a head, and many of us will have to pick a side whether we want to or not, lest we face the consequences of not giving in to the sort of strong-arming tactics currently on display.

The North Polish Union wrote:I wasn't intending to lay the blame squarely on BoM, although my initial word choice may have made it seem like that. When I said that current conflict "appears to be driven by BoM" I wasn't trying to place blame solely on them. That being said I think that the fact that most GPers come from an Anglosphere that's increasingly normalizing extreme political polarization and hyper-reaction to one's political opponents doesn't help.

Exactly. If I were to suggest a solution to BoM, (be it ever so humble) I'd say take a long-term approach to easing tensions between your two sides: while they may not want you at their parties, maybe you can invite them to yours? Just keep doing it, even if they don't accept right away.

But hey, it's just a suggestion. I'm not trying to tell y'all what to do. Do it, or don't. It's up to you.
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Sandaoguo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sandaoguo » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:02 pm

The idea that competing and antagonist factions of a game should come together in common areas to play spam games or some trivia tournament is really naive and nonsensical. You’re treating NS as some exogenous environment that the rest of the game takes place in, therefor it’s troubling that different groups are incapable or unwilling of playing games (“holding events”) together. When in reality *being competitors/enemies/antagonists*, and all that comes with that, is playing the game together.

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:44 pm

Sandaoguo wrote:The idea that competing and antagonist factions of a game should come together in common areas to play spam games or some trivia tournament is really naive and nonsensical. You’re treating NS as some exogenous environment that the rest of the game takes place in, therefor it’s troubling that different groups are incapable or unwilling of playing games (“holding events”) together. When in reality *being competitors/enemies/antagonists*, and all that comes with that, is playing the game together.

Is it naive? Maybe. But getting everyone together to have some fun does ease the tension. It makes both sides more amenable to discussion. It's a simple concept: understanding.

And maybe sometimes opposite sides need to ease the tension just a bit, so they can be healthy enemies. When one side bars the other from just dropping by for a good time, they start to dehumanize them. They start at demonize them to an unreasonable extent, and that's not good for either side. Have a difference of opinion. Sure. That's fine. But don't make it personal. The kind of overreaction we're seeing is an example of making things too personal. Polarization these days goes too far. I should know. I lived that kinda polarization in NationStates. It made me a good soldier, sure. I showed up for update every night, but I missed out on a lot. Hell, I didn't even give The North Pacific a chance way back when, because they were raiders, and I was a defender, and raiders were pure evil. That's the kinda rhetoric we were told back then, and frankly it wasn't healthy at all. Seeing more raiders in TRR now, it's good for the region. We had our first raider delegate a few years ago. Looking back, I think it's a disappointment that it hadn't happened sooner.
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8067
Founded: May 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Excidium Planetis » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:42 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:unibot: the nationstates equivalent of the guy in the hollywood walk of fame holding a sign full of bible verses and ranting about the rapture and the end times that nobody listens to

This is the first of your posts I have seen that actually seems unironic.
Current Ambassador: Adelia Meritt
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 9 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: AI wins Dawn Fleet election for High Counselor.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:15 am

I'll reply to the two major points of discussion that have emerged then reply to a few individual comments directly.

Conflict - RE: MGC

Sandaoguo wrote:The idea that competing and antagonist factions of a game should come together in common areas to play spam games or some trivia tournament is really naive and nonsensical. You’re treating NS as some exogenous environment that the rest of the game takes place in, therefor it’s troubling that different groups are incapable or unwilling of playing games (“holding events”) together. When in reality *being competitors/enemies/antagonists*, and all that comes with that, is playing the game together.


The Church of Satan wrote:Is it naive? Maybe. But getting everyone together to have some fun does ease the tension. It makes both sides more amenable to discussion. It's a simple concept: understanding.


My thought on this is that conflict is generally good for NS Gameplay in that it brings purpose, but what we're seeing with the MGC is not conflict between two relatively equal sides, but almost a united, cross-ideology, international front trying to use every means at its disposal (regardless of their own region's rights, freedoms, diplomacy, conventions, values) to squash the remaining little rabble trying to still instill conflict in this game.

MGC's measures not only lack a genuine IC philosophical motivation, but they blur the IC and the OOC by targeting players themselves and their participation in lighthearted stuff that may not be very related to GP at all. We shouldn't confuse the MGC's behaviour as being a step in a direction away from Discordification just because it may appear to present itself as 'conflict', it is a step further towards the end stages of Discordification - the use of sanctions to rid the game of conflict altogether.

Regionalism / Cosmopolitianism

The North Polish Union wrote:I think an additional factor in this is that regionalism is functionally dead. ... The root cause of this is cosmpolitanism, not Discord.


The Church of Satan wrote:I have to disagree here. I'd say the root cause is an intolerance of cosmopolitanism. This growing prevalence of excluding your region's enemies from something as harmless as a festival does more than hurt the intended targets.


I regret that the only essay I did not have time to write was a Reflection on Polysemes. :P Maybe I'll get around to it someday.

A few thoughts on this ... since NPU is saying the death of regionalism is responsible for changes to GP, and Church is saying the death of cosmopolitianism is responsible for changes to GP...

It is my belief that what I labeled "regionalism" and "cosmopolitianism" in 2012 are both minority views (perhaps even dying views) nowadays, they're uncommon viewpoints, and Discordification is responsible for that.

In general, I believe that at the end of the Cold War (2015), regionalism emerged from the war very strong because it was a reaction to players' experiences during the Cold War: there was a lot of accusations of entryism and outside influence central to the conflict. Many players, especially defenders, felt they needed to "perform" their patriotism and loyalty to their region.

But this is irrelevant because the Discordification that soon came, killed both regionalism and cosmopolitianism, like weeds choking out a garden from growing - and what it has replaced regionalism/cosmopolitianism with is an incoherent combination of the two, just the same as it has done with other ideological disagreements and divides (see "The Rise of Selective Technocracy and the Compliance State").

To be a regionalist, you have to believe and value commitment and loyalty to your region even against international pressures, but today most of GP is neither committed to their region as a unit, nor ready to sustain pressures from outside their region to conform.

To be a cosmopolitan, you have to believe in the rights to participate and reside in a region that are owed between a government and its residents, without regard to a pressure internally to "conform" to a domestic understanding of what it means to be a true member/patriot. But today most of GP has essentially no regard for rights at all, they're like RP trappings that you can toss away when the international community tells you that you should ... democracies across NS are debating the freedom of residency, the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press ... and many regard these as RP concepts that shouldn't limit or set obligations on their governments.

Weak regional identities ... weak commitments to rights, freedoms, and open citizenship ... strong global communities ...

What we are witnessing is a convergence of past perspectives on how best to govern regions into an incoherent, monolithic position that is too illiberal to be cosmopolitan and too interregional to be regionalist. I'll call it post-regionalism for lack of a better term at this time.

This is why it can appear to two sane observers that regionalism and cosmopolitanism is both dead and supreme at the same time, because they've mutated and amalgamated in such a way that parts of these views are still recognizable but as a whole they are unrecognizable. Ultimately, I see Discordification as the cause, not the effect ... changes in communication is warping ideologies, not changes in ideologies warping communication.

The North Polish Union wrote:I would personally tend to agree with Sedge. UCR's need to work to maintain some kind of appeal to attract new members. GCRs need no such thing because they get a bunch of free nations daily. The way welcome TGs work also contributes to this: even with the delivery of GCR welcome TGs being pushed back a few minutes, puppets I create/refound almost always receive the welcome TG before any UCR recruitment TGs, with some rare exceptions. I brought this up in the Technical forum some time ago and was expectedly met with resistance to change from a number of GCR government members, who still somehow think that they have it hard enough with nation retention. Obviously they have not spent much time recently in a UCR that's trying to grow.


And if UCRs are more appealing because they have to work harder to get nations, how will it impact UCRs when they get free nations daily too? :P I worry that players will adapt to frontiers in a way that games the system, rather than continuing to invest in growing their regions through appeal and outreach. My experience with metrics is there is always a way to satisfy a metric in practice without satisfying it in spirit.

The North Polish Union wrote:I'm more optimistic about frontiers than you are. The initial implementation is going to be a mess, especially given the impossibility of play-testing the political implications prior to launch. Admin can only ensure that the actual code functions properly, and not much beyond that. All it could take is a small group of bold players to completely disrupt a nascent status quo; we can only hope that group of players is headstrong and motivated enough to survive the backlash, which is itself not a given.


I hope I'm wrong! :) Genuinely.

The North Polish Union wrote:I would love it if the move to frontiers was concurrent with the abolishment of the current set of GCRs, but I'm aware that this is goes far beyond a fringe position and is never going to happen :P


If their regions were destroyed, how long would it take for some GCR governments to notice? :P I'm only kidding. But I have visions of some governments just carrying on obliviously, releasing press releases about this month's Discord karaoke event or whatever...

The North Polish Union wrote:As a raider, I think this misses the mark a little bit. Raiding is far from organizationally weak. *snip*


These are interesting points, I will say my remark about organizational weakness was directed at the past, not present and that the word "relative" was important -- in the sense that the weakness of raiding forces relative to defenders in 2020-2021 was part of a set of catalysts for Independent, Imperialist, and traditionally raider-sympathetic regions abandoning Invaders altogether politically. It gets more difficult to maintain a political footing if it is attached to loss after loss after loss.

One thing I would raise here is the impact of Discordification in essentially washing away the theoretical underpinnings of Independentism or Imperialism. How does blacklisting and deplatforming a set of regions for "tipping" a delegacy (a minor offense with no practical effect on a region long term) appear justified under the Independent Manifesto? I understand why defenders, including me, care about "tipping" - we believe in a right to self-determination, freedom from aggression. But the whole point of these alternative philosophies was to advocate for governing without the observation of rights or obligations, only claims and powers. The answer is that these regions aren't independent, imperialist, or defender anymore - regions are responding to social pressures to conform and belong, but with no coherent philosophy behind it.

The North Polish Union wrote:This hits on the nose something I've been thinking about since my return to NS. ...While accepting that serious issues of RL conduct are unacceptable (Slavia's prior community did have a serious issue which I'm glad we no longer have to deal with) I have had an issue with a number of logs that I've seen since returning to NS that I wasn't completely able to put my finger on until recently.


I see it a way to bully people, it's more socially intelligent and complex than screaming at someone - but you're essentially banking messages to embarrass or denigrate someone if you feel you need to at a later date.

I personally associate it with Biyah and the ex-ADN intelligence community.

The North Polish Union wrote:Maybe I'll get to the essays in your second post later. I've spent far too much time on this one already and I have other things to get done this weekend :P


I hope you get a chance too! I really appreciate your feedback and input.

Galiantus III wrote:As a supporter of Frontiers in general, I think you are ultimately right because of the specifics of implementation - possibly even worse than you are suggesting. Because of [violet]'s pet demands, I think you'll see individual players maintaining active, spawning frontiers to direct new players to their Strongholds - my personal estimate is we'll see hundreds, not dozens, such regions. The one silver lining is I think that will be short-lived, since Admin will want to remedy the problem when it becomes apparent.


I wrote a dozen vaguely to be generous: even at a dozen there are probable implementation issues that should be expected.

This is getting into technical stuff, but I'd personally suggest a hierarchy based on the length of time a frontier has been continuously a part of the spawning pool. And I think going by halves is a bit steep - I'd probably say go by thirds or fourths instead. If invading a region can bump them off the stack, there's an incentive for frontiers lower on the stack to team up against those above to dethrone them.


I don't really care what the depreciation is, whether it's half or less step - the idea was inspired by the Fibonacci sequence. Really the key point I was trying to raise was that a fixed hierarchy would ensure that the allocation is valuable to top performers regardless of how many Frontiers qualify for the allocation.

I personally think this is a more accurate take than your idea of "Discordification". If you look at other games that use instant communication, you will see that conflict isn't hampered by communication. When mechanics promote conflict, players engage in it regardless how easily they can communicate and engage with the larger community of the game. Why would it be that NationStates is any different? The problem is we don't have something to independently justify conflict. Conflict has to be contrived. That is the whole problem. And that is why I think Frontiers is a great step in the right direction. There are certainly more effective ideas out there, but within the current paradigm of gameplay I think Frontiers is something that can be compelling.


The game mechanics have not changed all that much since 2003 - regional influence's introduction did not prevent future coups. Because of the limited nature or absence of "scarcity" in NationStates, conflict generally is not material, it is ideational or relational or interpersonal - there is a conflict of values or personalities or a struggle for power. But we've seen less of those conflicts in recent years and I would attribute that to voluntary in/out group exposure and group behavior that arises from a lot of out-of-game communication.

One of the points that I think was important in that essay was that Discordification is NS-specific because of the nature of the game and the ambiguousness of whether conflict is appropriate/intended ... NationStates, fundamentally, has always been ambivalent by design about the use of its platform for the domination of other regions or communications ... it is indeterministic or non-teleological. It gives players the power to destroy regions or abuse their delegate powers, but there is no expectation that this actually take place.

NationStates Gameplay is also ambivalent about what constitutes political success and achievement and what constitutes a region (does it include the forum? Discord?), players fill this "values vacuum" with varying priorities - players may view their Discord room as part of a region that should be the primary target of its investment, players may not interpret success really even involving the game outside of Discord.

If this was, say, Call of Duty, round-the-clock communication outside of the game over chat, especially voice chat, would not have much impact on how people played the game, because it's well understood that 1) you're going to be trying to kill other players, 2) you have to play the game to actually be ... playing the game and scoring points and kills, your performance is based on the actual game.

This isn't to say that I think NS should more deterministic or structured, but rather the essay is raising caution that given the special nature of its gameplay, a lot of centralized out-of-game communication is effectively hollowing GP from the inside out by stifling the conflicts, adversaries, and intellectual diversity that allowed GP to thrive previously.

North Cromch wrote:
My thinking is blow it up - make the marketplace, a marketplace for NationStates. Allow players to submit their own items and artwork for loot boxes. Allow regions to auction off executive powers. Sell special NS Issues. Unlock new macros to customize your nation further. Create regional treasuries so delegates can build their own portfolios, tax residents, and distribute earnings or items.

I really like this marketplace idea you have put forward.


It's a little wild, I know, but I just think the current "card" market feels as though it is tacked on to an unrelated game; tying it closer to NationStates as a political simulator and giving it more options of player customization and creative input, could build on the market's capacity to grow and the value and relevancy of its goods.

Hahoalki wrote:In practice, a lack of protection for dissent is equivalent to an enforcement of conformity.

As long as a nation isn't advocating for physical violence against a "protected group," they should be allowed to say what they want.

As long as that isn't in place, I see no reason to get into the game play side - or even the OOC forums.


I really find this comment interesting, because I wonder what "protection for dissent" looks like in NS on an international scale?
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Jar Wattinree
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1700
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:39 am

Unibot III wrote:lMy thought on this is that conflict is generally good for NS Gameplay in that it brings purpose, but what we're seeing with the MGC is not conflict between two relatively equal sides, but almost a united, cross-ideology, international front trying to use every means at its disposal (regardless of their own region's rights, freedoms, diplomacy, conventions, values) to squash the remaining little rabble trying to still instill conflict in this game.

MGC's measures not only lack a genuine IC philosophical motivation, but they blur the IC and the OOC by targeting players themselves and their participation in lighthearted stuff that may not be very related to GP at all. We shouldn't confuse the MGC's behaviour as being a step in a direction away from Discordification just because it may appear to present itself as 'conflict', it is a step further towards the end stages of Discordification - the use of sanctions to rid the game of conflict altogether.

:eyebrow:

2018 has called. It wants this “moral hypocrisy” back.
By the Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost
I will voyage 'cross the Multiverse to fight for what was lost!
From this realm of nuclear chaos, to a world beyond the stars
I will quest forever onwards, so far;
I will wield the Holy Hammer of Flame!
Unholy cosmic frost!

Ecce Princeps Dundonensis Imperator Ascendit In Astra Eterna!

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:57 am

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Unibot III wrote:lMy thought on this is that conflict is generally good for NS Gameplay in that it brings purpose, but what we're seeing with the MGC is not conflict between two relatively equal sides, but almost a united, cross-ideology, international front trying to use every means at its disposal (regardless of their own region's rights, freedoms, diplomacy, conventions, values) to squash the remaining little rabble trying to still instill conflict in this game.

MGC's measures not only lack a genuine IC philosophical motivation, but they blur the IC and the OOC by targeting players themselves and their participation in lighthearted stuff that may not be very related to GP at all. We shouldn't confuse the MGC's behaviour as being a step in a direction away from Discordification just because it may appear to present itself as 'conflict', it is a step further towards the end stages of Discordification - the use of sanctions to rid the game of conflict altogether.

:eyebrow:

2018 has called. It wants this “moral hypocrisy” back.


Is this a reference to the “Hall Monitor” thing from that era? I don’t think I’m getting the reference.

I’ll be the first to concede that it can appear a bit confused to distinguish between conflict that is furthering or detracting from this overall pattern of depoliticization, deideologicialization etc. “You say you want conflict, Unibot, then someone goes and opposes someone and you say ‘not conflict like that’?” But that’s a part of my point, we are seeing opposition, relatively united opposition in fact, and this is an effort to oppose through exclusion, deplatforming etc. but the opposition isn’t rooted in much more than an international feeling that we should all get along, and BoM etc. are disrupters and nuisances to that order. It may be opposition, but its intention is to worsen the vary problem that GR is talking about, and I am talking: namely, the lack of conflict.

At the height of the Cold War, when defenders, invaders, imperialists, independents, The Empire, francoists… as of us were relatively ascendant and jockeying for power … we didn’t really care whether someone was commended, or whether someone joined trivia night on IRC, or whether we attended the NS World Fair together. A lot of the main personalities didn’t even like each other - I know I didn’t like Jakker and Milograd didn’t like Rachel, for instance: we were effectively at war, but as regions, as organizations, as conflicting movements and blocs, not as people, not as players. And there were core philosophical differences between what Europeia advocated for, and what the FRA advocated for, and what TWP and NPO advocated for too, which was at the heart of this conflict.

I don’t just want to see players oppose a few fringe disruptionists in the name of getting along, I think for GP to thrive it needs conflict and conflict has to be rooted in identity and purpose.

I hope that makes sense?
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

User avatar
Sandaoguo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sandaoguo » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:51 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Sandaoguo wrote:The idea that competing and antagonist factions of a game should come together in common areas to play spam games or some trivia tournament is really naive and nonsensical. You’re treating NS as some exogenous environment that the rest of the game takes place in, therefor it’s troubling that different groups are incapable or unwilling of playing games (“holding events”) together. When in reality *being competitors/enemies/antagonists*, and all that comes with that, is playing the game together.

Is it naive? Maybe. But getting everyone together to have some fun does ease the tension. It makes both sides more amenable to discussion. It's a simple concept: understanding.

Opposing sides don’t need to talk to each other, don’t need to hang out with each other, none of that. You just equate that with deep personal hatred, when in reality NS is one of the only guild-based games I’ve played where there’s an expectation that guild lines fall to the wayside and everybody at the end of the day sits down to eat dinner at the table together. In other games, enemy guilds fight each other over the game objective and there’s little to no outside, overly-personal and toxic “OOC” fighting *because there’s little to no social interaction outside the battlefield in the first place.* It’s *okay* for raider and defender groups, or whatever other cleavage we can think of, to never interact socially. That’s *normal*. The NSGP Discord server is *not normal*. You don’t see that in any other game.
Last edited by Sandaoguo on Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:24 am

Unibot III wrote:My thought on this is that conflict is generally good for NS Gameplay in that it brings purpose, but what we're seeing with the MGC is not conflict between two relatively equal sides, but almost a united, cross-ideology, international front trying to use every means at its disposal (regardless of their own region's rights, freedoms, diplomacy, conventions, values) to squash the remaining little rabble trying to still instill conflict in this game.

MGC's measures not only lack a genuine IC philosophical motivation, but they blur the IC and the OOC by targeting players themselves and their participation in lighthearted stuff that may not be very related to GP at all. We shouldn't confuse the MGC's behaviour as being a step in a direction away from Discordification just because it may appear to present itself as 'conflict', it is a step further towards the end stages of Discordification - the use of sanctions to rid the game of conflict altogether.

And while I'm making it difficult to believe this, I don't mind the conflict itself. It's just being done in an unhealthy way. Unhealthy for the regions involved, and unhealthy for Gameplay. This "Cancel Culture" style of conflict doesn't just divide us as IC members of our respective regions. It divides us as people behind the screen. And that's not good. It's an extreme compartmentalization of conflict, with strict, irrational separations that cuts off their noses to spite their faces (I really wanted to use that idiom, lol.) The MGC is a large bloc of regions with considerable power and influence, and if this method becomes the next form of political combat, the damage could be bad.

There's no diplomacy here, much as they might make it seem like it is. They laid it out in a way that makes it seem diplomatic, but at the same time there's a distinct lack of tact. It's very political, sure, but it's...I don't want to say it like this, it's bad politics. I know, sounds like I'm judging them from atop my moral high horse, but I can't think of a better way to describe it at the moment. I hated saying it as much as you hated reading it. And I feel dirty. :P

What I've enjoyed about conflict in NationStates, since the fierce ideological wars ended in 2015, however small the conflicts might have been (by comparison) is that at the end of the day we were able to sit down at the same table and set it all aside until it was time to fight again.
Sandaoguo wrote:Opposing sides don’t need to talk to each other, don’t need to hang out with each other, none of that. You just equate that with deep personal hatred, when in reality NS is one of the only guild-based games I’ve played where there’s an expectation that guild lines fall to the wayside and everybody at the end of the day sits down to eat dinner at the table together. In other games, enemy guilds fight each other over the game objective and there’s little to no outside, overly-personal and toxic “OOC” fighting *because there’s little to no social interaction outside the battlefield in the first place.* It’s *okay* for raider and defender groups, or whatever other cleavage we can think of, to never interact socially. That’s *normal*. The NSGP Discord server is *not normal*. You don’t see that in any other game.

I vehemently disagree (see above.)
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days
Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

User avatar
BEEstreetz
Envoy
 
Posts: 222
Founded: May 28, 2022
Capitalist Paradise

Nice to meet you too.

Postby BEEstreetz » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:07 pm

VERY important information:
This is the first completely serious interaction I will attempt to have on NS and with NS users on (seemingly) non-personal topics. Regardless, I doubt in managing to finish this.
I'm not in NSGP nor do I know the regular community within it nor do I wish to know. My expectations were low beforehand. However, I do know what NSGP is and what it is not. I do know that you think you're benevolent with this and that you are right on certain things you 'push' into the OP. It does feel forced.




Finally, I am first and foremost addressing you, Unibot III, behind the username, since I am also worried.

"the political culture of NationStates had changed, that it lacked substantive conflict and in-game institutions were being neglected for Discord"


The political culture? I've begun "playing" NS with the presumption that it had no established Political Culture... I expected carbon-copied political views (which you will mention later on) but nothing amazing.
To be fair, I was pleasantly surprised that NS, including every other platform pipelined from it in some way, had a very politically capable player-base. It will surprise some of you (which know me) that I do not hold personal grudges towards any other user as a person, which leads us into the next piece.

"Half of respondents described NationStates as "toxic." More than 70% agreed that NSGP "is experiencing an extended period of interregional peace. Players have shifted their focus accordingly to cultural activities, socializing, and card-collecting." And most reported this as a negative change. A near majority of respondents also agreed that today’s NSGP "involves less politics, divisions, and ideological distinctions than in the past" and "regional governments should focus more on their regions in-game and less on Discord."


NS is toxic, it's more toxic than (any_attribute) player thinks it is. A worrying premonition sometimes catches me; That even [fuchsia] themselves don't know what sort of symptomatology this ENTIRE web of NS&+ may create. I've made a promise to make a detailed thread about this one day and I will deliver on it.
(Keep in mind that I wish it to be an actual sociological study. It will take a while. Besides, NS becoming my doctoral thesis is what I've always dreamed of, it's the peak of my abilities).
What's wrong with cultural activities and socializing? Later on you even blame BadgeTeam1 for ostracizing BadgeTeam2 (with the outmost of apologies to the NSGP community of course).
I agree that it has become less political but only in lack of political theory. As for the playerbase who wish for ideological distinction - My personal guess is that people have had enough of ideology. As for ideology itself, I will offer you/them a disillusionment: It's just empty rhetoric, it's a minor part of politics. When used too often, it presents itself as: A (poor) replacement for values & moral judgement [which lends it to becoming dangerous for at least an entire generation]; Masks itself as theory and hijacks in the poltheory-polsci-naturalsci pipeline [much more dangerous, imagination not needed, just memory].

"ban members of the Brotherhood of Malice and the Black Hawks from participating in any of their cultural events or being "platformed" by any media. The Modern Gameplay Compact has also initiated an unprecedented blackout on these invaders in the WA, promising unconditional support for repeals of legislation passed by these offenders and the use of targeted offensive liberations."


This is where you begin using certain terminology, such as "being platformed by any media". I advise you to refrain going head-first into that whole debacle; Followed with criticism that you seem to use this terminology [borrowed from the 'political-pop culture-personal identity' ongoing socialsci debate which is usually terribly informed of] as if you already have a formulated opinion on the matter. Working, mastering and continuously following this field - I do not have an opinion and it's been years.
To summarize, avoid allowing yourself the leisure to accept an easy solution from someone else...In general as well.

"purely text-based communication (IRC, MSN) and later with platforms with audio-visual component (Discord, Skype). But for the sake of simplicity we'll call this increased social connectivity, "discordification." Discordifiation has politically realigned NationStates to an extraordinary extent: at a macro level, it inspires mass cooperation and cohesion between previously rival regions, deterring international conflict and intrigue; at a meso level, it contributes to inactivity and maladministration within regions; at a micro level, it places peer pressure on individual players to conform and encourages them to exhibit relational aggression to advance their own status and position." [...Further elaboration on what he means the user wishes to emphasize is offered later...]


Yes, yes, forums require more effort and quality to converse than instant messaging do, it's noticeable on NSphere as well. While I was not banned on 3 regional Discords, I saw what you did. But I'd like to address my dearest Sandaoguo Glenn on this after.
Since you brought up Discord, I agree (for different reasons)-It's bad that neither NS nor regional forums offer as much community interaction-feedback, or rather they have the potential to but have been side-lined.

I will refrain from attempting to engage in the contents of "Quiet Cruelty, Absent Leadership" section.

"Drafts are often now presented to the World Assembly with the vetting complete externally, and the actual in-game consultation is simply pro forma. Other drafts are frequently presented to the World Assembly that are based on inside jokes or internal discussions on the NS WA Discord[...]But the most significant consequence of Discordification within the General Assembly is at the ideological level, where it has followed the same pattern as it has in NS Gameplay of synthesizing different classical viewpoints in a chaotic, atonal manner. A decade ago, the World Assembly was embroiled in a passionate divide between ‘International Federalist’ (IntFed) authors, who were a part of a newer generation and more liberal, and ‘National Sovereigntists’ (NatSov).


Yes, drafts are bad, they're scared, they're boring - because the quorum for getting a draft even to be voted on requires them to be compromised to such an extent that they resemble a pale shadow of what the author intended.
Then you had to ruin it with ideology again. I was waiting for you here. Think about what I've said.

"Today’s WA is an institution that has strong opinions on retail credit, ship recycling, chlamydia, and 24-D, and little to no opinion on handguns, a minimum wage, sex work, unemployment, or mental health."[...Explains the issue in detail with examples...]


Two reasons: the one I've illustrated above and the one that is connected to the next section - repeals. At this point I'd be fine if repeals became illegal (despite the amount of old resolutions that should be updated) just because of Badgers abusing Repeals in WA. The playerbase is also to blame, given that one week - they will vote for a [working safety] Resolution, then the next week - they also vote for the Repeal of the same Resolution. It's frustrating...
Moving onto the "Security Council" section.

"What is the purpose of the WA Security Council? Who is it for? How neutral should the WA Security Council be?


This line of text is a good summary of how I view the SC. It's just Badging at this point; I refer to it as "Badging" because they've really lost their charm, especially the Commends. It's like inflation.

Now, the last section on "Movements"...
For others: It should be read entirely by anyone reading this and skimming through O.P.'s thread. Unlike earlier, nothing is wasted on further exposition, as if the author knows that they were addressing a target audience. It's rich in form and in advice, until you boiled me with this:
4) Be topical, be timely [...] 5) The principle of the movement should be simple and evocative
You invariably will want to pitch a journey that you expect a person or group to take, perhaps it is heroic - "good people rising up against domination, exploitation, or conspiracy" or perhaps it is meritocratic -"discover your true potential. Best the best." A movement is not propelled by paragraphs and paragraphs of commentary, a simple, seductive clarion call is sufficient to inspire people.

NO. If you want a movement, you do not want to be topical, simple, nor evocative. EVERY movement that was, has began, still is and will be, start with the back-end theory preceding the exposure. You do NOT just start producing yellow journalism and you specially DO NOT LOOK FOR OUTREACH TO SPREAD PROPAGANDA.
If you wish to do that, this is not the procedure by which you achieve anything significant. I've already mentioned the correct one but as this is morally repulsive to me I won't spit out what you get by figuring out the core axiom of your movement before piping people into the movement through psychological warfare.






Now, Glenn, my issue is with a particular statement:
"You just equate that with deep personal hatred, when in reality NS is one of the only guild-based games I’ve played where there’s an expectation that guild lines fall to the wayside and everybody at the end of the day sits down to eat dinner at the table together."

NS, in it's entirety, encourages a shame-based culture. From the very beginning - when you get the result of answering your issues - you're shamed. Players don't feel guilty, as evident by some tyrannically "roleplaying" users. Then you have forum threads who are entirely dependent on judgement of others (from "cool flag" to "you're despicable, i've spent so much time on this roleplay only for you not to do what i want to").
Where do you see guilt-based? Players are incentivized not to feel remorse - towards their fictional citizens over to other players all the way to people they know in their life. I'm genuinely curious here since to this day, I have not met another person, other than my own self, who is controlled by guilt rather than shame or sanction on here. It's not pure egocentricism, either, attempts were made to find that specific case.
Last edited by Reploid Productions on Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Eye-searing text BBcode removed. Dear gods, if you don't need to use a splash of color to highlight specific bits of a post, DON'T USE IT.
Useful links: Most Important Dispatch of Mine | Website rules | NS Guide | List of NSCodes | GA Rules | Personal help | Reppy's sig workshop | Script Rules | NS API Doc
-
OOC Info: | F;She/Her/They. | Orientation: ACE Umbrella.| Profession: (Current) Operational Crisis Management ;Social worker;Bureaucrat| Religion: Pan-Abrahamic | Education: PolSci -> IR -> IntSec. | Ideology: (A) InfValue Results For more Info.

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1380
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kavagrad » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:56 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:Well, I gotta admit, this idea of forcibly quarantining regions from cultural events (because of simple R/D divides) is deeply concerning to me. I always liked that no matter how polarized the enemies in Gameplay were, we were able to come together and have fun at festivals and such. The deterioration of that does not bode well for Gameplay.

Fully agree with this. Not sure when what is effectively OOC blacklisting became the go-to tactic for certain parts of that sphere, but it's short-sighted at best. I wouldn't even call this a style of gameplay. Where's the gameplay?

I'm not a GPer, but I do have friendly connections with a number of GPers. I also like to organise and play in chess tournaments, both IRL and on NS. There was a time, earlier this year, where I was talking to people from both sides of R/D about a NS-wide chess organising body. Completely OOC, nice and chill. Explicitly talking about being able to do it without excluding people based on their position in Gameplay.

Would be completely impossible to do now, because of nonsense like this. The lines aren't being blurred; they've been outright crossed in my view.
"Kava where are you? We need a purge specialist" - Dyl
"You'll always be a Feral Rat in my heart, Kava" - Podria
"It’s no fun being anti-Kava when he hates himself too" - Greylyn
Decorative Rubble Enthusiast

User avatar
Jar Wattinree
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1700
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:18 pm

BEEstreetz wrote:<snip>

Can you use a darker shade of orange, or not at all, because I can't read this without quoting the text.
By the Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost
I will voyage 'cross the Multiverse to fight for what was lost!
From this realm of nuclear chaos, to a world beyond the stars
I will quest forever onwards, so far;
I will wield the Holy Hammer of Flame!
Unholy cosmic frost!

Ecce Princeps Dundonensis Imperator Ascendit In Astra Eterna!

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Gameplay

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Haaton Prime

Advertisement

Remove ads