by Sedgistan » Wed May 25, 2022 1:03 pm
by The Universe World » Wed May 25, 2022 1:12 pm
WayNeacTia wrote:Why admit to to something, when you can just deny it and release a word salad composed solely of bullshit?
by Bormiar » Wed May 25, 2022 1:21 pm
by Spode Humbled Minions » Wed May 25, 2022 1:34 pm
Within a couple of weeks, the Admin team had implemented a much improved logging system to ensure indefinite recording of forumside IP lookups by Moderators and accountability.
by Quebecshire » Wed May 25, 2022 1:58 pm
Sedgistan wrote:I got my years wrong in my post: corrected 2021 to 2020.
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed May 25, 2022 2:36 pm
...he had done this after The Black Hawks’ leadership had already determined that Ursidae was operated by Karputsk.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Wymondham » Wed May 25, 2022 2:46 pm
Sedgistan wrote:While the intent was to follow this up further at the time, other events overtook this, and with the most important matters dealt with (it being made clear to Jakker that his action was not appropriate, and should not be repeated, and the logging implemented) further follow-up just didn’t happen. It’s been in the back of my mind to follow up, and I asked recently to do so, and was given the go-ahead. Bringing it up so long after the event might have felt like throwing a colleague under the bus, but with Jakker’s removal, that is no longer a concern.
by Numero Capitan » Wed May 25, 2022 2:54 pm
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed May 25, 2022 3:28 pm
Numero Capitan wrote:I’m yet to hear another plausible explanation for how Karputsk’s operation may have been uncovered (and there may well be one) but it would be a great shame if Jakker’s abuse of his moderator abilities was the pivotal factor. Either way, the fact that admin had clear evidence that it may have been should have been reason enough for a temporary suspension of his involvement on site staff as a moderator with access to that data. He should have then been reassessed for suitability as a forum moderator as if he wasn’t an incumbent candidate.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Wymondham » Wed May 25, 2022 3:50 pm
Numero Capitan wrote:Good that there are better measures in place but have got to question why Jakker’s explanation of it being a random act of personal interest (looking up the crucial information that they would have needed to expose a spy) was treated as an acceptable explanation.
by Frattastan IV » Wed May 25, 2022 4:20 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:-I've reviewed old Council logs for certainty: at no point on or after the 27th did Jakker or anyone else disclose this information to Council. At 22:16 Monday April 27, 2020 UTC, another (now-former) member of council re-raised concerns Ursidae was a spy and probably Karp, and the most Jakker did was agree with that but state there was no solid proof yet, then did not comment further. It would be my educated guess, at this point, that Jakker likely privately encouraged this member to re-raise the issue after confirming it for himself, but without saying why.
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:https://i.imgur.com/DPD3U0f.png
Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.
by Pterodaxtyl » Wed May 25, 2022 4:36 pm
Frattastan IV wrote:The Lmaoofl post was brought up in the nest, with Jakker mentioning that it was Karp (after some confusion, with a few people assuming it was a nation of mine - although I believe this happened several hours after the Council talk that you mention).
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed May 25, 2022 4:46 pm
Frattastan IV wrote:From our perspective, while Ursus had been generally suspected for a few months (with plenty of Nuca jokes - but that kind of 'gut feeling' is very common with newcomers and rising talents), and there had been a known leak during the attempt on Anarchy which put him on a shortlist, things precipitated very quickly after Lmaoofl's forum post on April 27. To us that seemed to be the first time that the Karp-Ursus possibility was considered, which eventually allowed to collect enough circumstantial evidence to ban him two days later. The Lmaoofl post was brought up in the nest, with Jakker mentioning that it was Karp (after some confusion, with a few people assuming it was a nation of mine - although I believe this happened several hours after the Council talk that you mention). The diplomatic assignment to Europeia, which we assumed was a bogus thing to get an IP match, came about 24 hours after the concerns that you mention were raised.
So, there definitely was the feeling that someone had just put Karp's name on the table around the same time as the forum post, which allowed you to put together a decent case once you were on the right track. As you said, it's a lot easier to connect the dots once you have an idea to start from. While Lmaoofl is a known alt of Karp (if a bit obscure, in the forum topic even Mall thought it was Nuca at first), as far as I could tell there was little awareness that he had intel experience, or that anyone from the RRA might do espionage, so the Karp connection felt a bit sudden. If you say it was brought up earlier as a serious possibility then of course that would lessen chances that Jakker had a decisive hand in this.Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:https://i.imgur.com/DPD3U0f.png
I don't remember Karp's WA switching, but the proposition that TRR's discord could offer some important insight sounds like a bit of a stretch.
Jakker had used his Forum Moderator powers to look up the IP of this post by the nation ‘Lmaoofl’ (a known puppet of Karputsk) at April 27th 2020 17:43 UTC; this lookup displayed the other nations that had posted from the IP, which included Ursidae. Jakker would therefore have known from this that Ursidae was likely operated by Karputsk.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Frattastan IV » Wed May 25, 2022 5:19 pm
Wymondham wrote:Sedgistan wrote:While the intent was to follow this up further at the time, other events overtook this, and with the most important matters dealt with (it being made clear to Jakker that his action was not appropriate, and should not be repeated, and the logging implemented) further follow-up just didn’t happen. It’s been in the back of my mind to follow up, and I asked recently to do so, and was given the go-ahead. Bringing it up so long after the event might have felt like throwing a colleague under the bus, but with Jakker’s removal, that is no longer a concern.
While I completely understand why this may have fallen on the back burner; would the moderation team be able to give an undertaking that should a similar event occur in the future, it would be disclosed publicly and promptly?
Pterodaxtyl wrote:Frattastan IV wrote:The Lmaoofl post was brought up in the nest, with Jakker mentioning that it was Karp (after some confusion, with a few people assuming it was a nation of mine - although I believe this happened several hours after the Council talk that you mention).
I'm confused as to why this is relevant honestly? It had been speculated for some time ahead of that. I don't know why a one off mention of a nation, correcting who the owner is would be relevant to the investigation or prompt any of it.
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Lmaoofl was an open puppet of /Karp/, with previous posts signed off as such.
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:1 day 11 hours ago: Sir BearBear resigned from the World Assembly.
11 hours ago: Lmaoofl was admitted to the World Assembly.
Which is close enough to be suspicious when you're grasping at straws after 3+ months of investigating, but not solid in and of itself.
Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.
by RiderSyl » Wed May 25, 2022 5:28 pm
by Frattastan IV » Wed May 25, 2022 5:33 pm
RiderSyl wrote:so, to TL;DR this...
Jakker's modly IP check and the knowledge it gained him allowed him to "nudge" TBH in the right direction on who a spy was without explicitly telling them what he knew, Souls speaking for TBH says that the spy would've been caught anyway, and assorted defenders are pushing back on that
right?
Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.
by RiderSyl » Wed May 25, 2022 5:50 pm
by Quebecshire » Wed May 25, 2022 5:55 pm
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.
by Fachumonn » Wed May 25, 2022 6:01 pm
by Bears Armed » Wed May 25, 2022 6:01 pm
by Refuge Isle » Wed May 25, 2022 8:58 pm
Bears Armed wrote:Just to clarify, in case anybody wondered, there is absolutely no connection -- either OOC or IC -- between that 'Ursus'/'Ursidae'/'Sir BearBear' and my 'Bears' or 'Ursines'.
by Sedgistan » Thu May 26, 2022 2:02 am
Wymondham wrote:While I completely understand why this may have fallen on the back burner; would the moderation team be able to give an undertaking that should a similar event occur in the future, it would be disclosed publicly and promptly?
Numero Capitan wrote:Good that there are better measures in place but have got to question why Jakker’s explanation of it being a random act of personal interest (looking up the crucial information that they would have needed to expose a spy) was treated as an acceptable explanation.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: The Russian Nation, Tiami
Advertisement