SOPHIA | A Rose by Any Other Date...

[Honeydewistania]

when the actions have consequences! :flushed:

[Guy]

This is really weird, Tin

[Syberis]

Cancel culture is apparently when regions refuse to work with people who have been nasty to them, and then those that were nasty then decide to hide behind friends and not even take the licks for the things they said.

On the other hand, these claims made to try to reduce the political influence of an individual are not cancel culture.

All I've really learned from this statement is that cancel culture is things that people don't like.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Can we cancel both August and Thaecia? Then we'd really be firing on all cylinders.

Alternatively, cancel NationStates.

No, but to contribute something substantive to this, I don't think anyone is "cancelling" August because he said something outlandish about Thaecia -- and I don't even like Thaecia, but it was too far -- and they reacted by refusing to work with him or anyone working with him. That's not a super uncommon thing and has occurred in the past for much pettier reasons than this, and sometimes the reasons were in-character where this is out-of-character and fairly serious.

Also, miss me with any sympathy for August. I don't think Thaecia is "cancelling" him, but I do think it would be perfectly valid to cancel him if they or anyone else wanted to do so. If you don't want to cancel him for this, cancel him for the constant apologism for fascists that happens virtually any time they are mentioned anywhere he is present. I'm surprised he's been tolerated this long and I think it's mainly due to his tech. Say what you will about Thaecia but in this particular case, they're probably ahead of the curve in saying bye-bye to someone who will eventually be blacklisted by the gameplay community at large.

[ConsequencesOfYourActions]

Sorry I'm late to game y'all! But I'm finally here!

[CoraSpia]

ugh I'm making too much of a habit of agreeing with Tin, need to cut it out too much before I start ego-stroking.

[CoraSpia]

Can we cancel both August and Thaecia? Then we'd really be firing on all cylinders.

Alternatively, cancel NationStates.

No, but to contribute something substantive to this, I don't think anyone is "cancelling" August because he said something outlandish about Thaecia -- and I don't even like Thaecia, but it was too far -- and they reacted by refusing to work with him or anyone working with him. That's not a super uncommon thing and has occurred in the past for much pettier reasons than this, and sometimes the reasons were in-character where this is out-of-character and fairly serious.

Also, miss me with any sympathy for August. I don't think Thaecia is "cancelling" him, but I do think it would be perfectly valid to cancel him if they or anyone else wanted to do so. If you don't want to cancel him for this, cancel him for the constant apologism for fascists that happens virtually any time they are mentioned anywhere he is present. I'm surprised he's been tolerated this long and I think it's mainly due to his tech. Say what you will about Thaecia but in this particular case, they're probably ahead of the curve in saying bye-bye to someone who will eventually be blacklisted by the gameplay community at large.

Could we maybe get a source for that?

[Cormactopia Prime]

Could we maybe get a source for that?

What do I look like, Wikipedia? It's around and about if people know where to look for it, and many do.

[CoraSpia]

Could we maybe get a source for that?

What do I look like, Wikipedia? It's around and about if people know where to look for it, and many do.

I don't know where to look for it though.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I don't know where to look for it though.

That's unfortunate for you. It's probably because no one bothers to tell you where to look for anything anymore because you inevitably side with the worst possible people in every matter. See, for reference, your years old views on the acceptability of forum destruction, your time in Enadia, or more recently your comments regarding the moderation crackdown on Nazis in which you compared their recruitment efforts to your D&D recruitment as similarly harmless in magnitude.

In other words: No, I'm not going to bother proving anything to you. You always side with the absolute worst people no matter how much proof you get.

[CoraSpia]

I don't know where to look for it though.

That's unfortunate for you. It's probably because no one bothers to tell you where to look for anything anymore because you inevitably side with the worst possible people in every matter. See, for reference, your years old views on the acceptability of forum destruction, your time in Enadia, or more recently your comments regarding the moderation crackdown on Nazis in which you compared their recruitment efforts to your D&D recruitment as similarly harmless in magnitude.

In other words: No, I'm not going to bother proving anything to you. You always side with the absolute worst people no matter how much proof you get.

so at this point you're doing exactly what people are accusing august of, and making unfounded accusations.

[Wymondham]

That's unfortunate for you. It's probably because no one bothers to tell you where to look for anything anymore because you inevitably side with the worst possible people in every matter. See, for reference, your years old views on the acceptability of forum destruction, your time in Enadia, or more recently your comments regarding the moderation crackdown on Nazis in which you compared their recruitment efforts to your D&D recruitment as similarly harmless in magnitude.

In other words: No, I'm not going to bother proving anything to you. You always side with the absolute worst people no matter how much proof you get.

so at this point you're doing exactly what people are accusing august of, and making unfounded accusations.

I fail to see how someone quoting your own comments back at you, noting the fact that you spent time in Enadia and referencing your views is unfounded but sure GVH, keep digging my friend

[CoraSpia]

so at this point you're doing exactly what people are accusing august of, and making unfounded accusations.

I fail to see how someone quoting your own comments back at you, noting the fact that you spent time in Enadia and referencing your views is unfounded but sure GVH, keep digging my friend

I was referring to Cormac's accusations against August and the people he has defended while refusing to substantiate those claims.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I was referring to Cormac's accusations against August and the people he has defended while refusing to substantiate those claims.

Look, I'm not going to name specific Discord servers because I don't want them to get bombarded with people popping in to look for the tea. I will simply say if you look at servers where August frequently participates and run a search for the word fascist, his apologism will not be far behind. It's gameplay's best kept (non-)secret that the guy will scarcely let a mention of fascists pass without, in some way, coming to defense of them and their right to participate.

To get back to the original point of the statement in this thread, he should perhaps have thought about his fragile glass house before throwing stones at Thaecia.

[United Calanworie]

I fail to see how someone quoting your own comments back at you, noting the fact that you spent time in Enadia and referencing your views is unfounded but sure GVH, keep digging my friend

I was referring to Cormac's accusations against August and the people he has defended while refusing to substantiate those claims.

I never thought I’d say this, but I agree with GVH. Kinda hypocritical of somebody to be saying “[x] is making accusations about [y] without proof,” and then proceeding to say “[x] does [z] bad thing” and then refuse to back it up with proof. Just sayin, it’s a little funky.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

People are entitled to their own opinion, even if that opinion is particularly stupid. I don't really know enough to say if/how stupid August's opinion on this is, but they're entitled to it.

This is not really cancel culture, though... a bunch of people who would have voted for the proposal anyway said they'd vote for it because of the above. The only region which actually issued any meaningful consequences was Thaecia, and given the accused is an officer there I don't really know what you expect.

[Varanius]

I actually thought the Thaecia statement was the dumbest part of this whole thing until I looked at the title of this thread.

[Visionary Union]

Dear dear, it's almost like when you do dumb stuff it might bite you in the ass.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I was referring to Cormac's accusations against August and the people he has defended while refusing to substantiate those claims.

I never thought I’d say this, but I agree with GVH. Kinda hypocritical of somebody to be saying “[x] is making accusations about [y] without proof,” and then proceeding to say “[x] does [z] bad thing” and then refuse to back it up with proof. Just sayin, it’s a little funky.

The issue with August's accusation, that Thaecia is as bad as NWA, isn't merely that he lacks proof. The issue is that he is equating actions on the part of Thaecia with the reprehensible conduct of NWA, when there is no equivalence between them. He's not accusing Thaecia of doing the exact same things as NWA did, he's just saying Thaecia is as bad as NWA despite the fact everyone -- August included -- knows Thaecia has never done the vile things NWA did. No one is even saying they did.

Contrast this with my "lack of proof," when I'm sure as we speak on Discord servers and DMs people are pointing out examples of the times August has gone to bat for fascists and their right to participate. That I'm not producing proof here in this venue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ask around. It's really not hard to find, I just don't have any interest in throwing out the name of a specific server and giving the rest of that server's staff the headache of dealing with this just because that server happens to be ground zero for his cheerleading for fascist participation. Plenty of people know where to find it though.

[CoraSpia]

I never thought I’d say this, but I agree with GVH. Kinda hypocritical of somebody to be saying “[x] is making accusations about [y] without proof,” and then proceeding to say “[x] does [z] bad thing” and then refuse to back it up with proof. Just sayin, it’s a little funky.

The issue with August's accusation, that Thaecia is as bad as NWA, isn't merely that he lacks proof. The issue is that he is equating actions on the part of Thaecia with the reprehensible conduct of NWA, when there is no equivalence between them. He's not accusing Thaecia of doing the exact same things as NWA did, he's just saying Thaecia is as bad as NWA despite the fact everyone -- August included -- knows Thaecia has never done the vile things NWA did. No one is even saying they did.

Contrast this with my "lack of proof," when I'm sure as we speak on Discord servers and DMs people are pointing out examples of the times August has gone to bat for fascists and their right to participate. That I'm not producing proof here in this venue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ask around. It's really not hard to find, I just don't have any interest in throwing out the name of a specific server and giving the rest of that server's staff the headache of dealing with this just because that server happens to be ground zero for his cheerleading for fascist participation. Plenty of people know where to find it though.

You know where to find me, and I assume you know where to find Aav. I'm charitable to assume that if you sent me quotes they wouldn't be bullshit and that's all I ask for.

[Galiantus III]

This even-handed approach by Tin is something NSGP needs more of, and I would like to encourage more of this. I personally think August was off base with his comments, but what we're seeing with multiple organizations using his words as a flash-point for bashing him is just as problematic. Therefore, I don't intend to distance myself from either Andusre or August as a consequence of this drama. NSGP spends way too much time bickering over individuals' OOC status than spending time in character.

[Refuge Isle]

This even-handed approach by Tin is something NSGP needs more of, and I would like to encourage more of this. I personally think August was off base with his comments, but what we're seeing with multiple organizations using his words as a flash-point for bashing him is just as problematic. Therefore, I don't intend to distance myself from either Andusre or August as a consequence of this drama. NSGP spends way too much time bickering over individuals' OOC status than spending time in character.

You can do whatever you like. As can everyone else.

That's life dude.

[Matthew the Man]

I thought this was the funniest piece of satire I've ever read. Then I realized it was unironic.

Then it became even funnier that it was a genuine article.

[Bobberino]

(Image)

The Government of Sophia
Statement on Cancel Culture

---

The current Security Council resolution at vote is Liberate New Western Atlantic, by Andusre - a former resident of the NWA and Thaecia's current Minister of Defence.

August recently argued, on the United Regions Alliance's Discord server, that he was opposed to the Liberation "due to the author, who in my opinion is just as objectionable as his former compatriots from NWA, and I am not interested in giving him a helping hand in whatever revenge plot he has going on." This statement was later removed from the URA's vote recommendation dispatch by its keeper, Scalizagasti, and not by August or by NationStates Moderators.

Many famous gameplayers support the Liberation. Here are some of the reasons they have provided:

• Sylh Alanor, WA Delegate of Refugia, boasted that "August... single-handedly convinced me" to support it.
• HumanSanity, The South Pacific's Minister of Defence, proclaimed that his vote in favour was "a show of solidarity against this persistent unjust and baseless out-of-character attack."
• Quebecshire, TSP's Minister of Culture and a Consul of The League, claimed that he was led to support it because "August... had the absolute audacity to compare and equate the author to the target region."
• Witchcraft and Sorcery, TSP's Prime Minister, declared his backing due to NWA being "OOC problematic," plus August having "equat[ed] the resolution's author to" the NWA.
• Emodea, TSP's Minister of Media, stated that he would offer his support "following some choice comments by August regarding the author's character."
• Wischland, 10000 Islands' Delegate, announced her backing "as a show of support to" Andusre, who she credited with upholding "XKI's friendship with Thaecia," after having read "unwarranted and bad-faith attacks on the author,"
• The list surely goes on. Everybody quoted above, except Sylh Alanor, has directly or indirectly said that they would have abstained from voting had August's comments never been published.

The President has voted for the Liberation because she believes that Andusre has elaborated on the key facts as far as possible, within site rules. Yet there is no reason why he should be treated as some godlike figure, beyond reproach and capable of no wrong, simply for wanting his old region to be taken over by the "inter-regional community." Nor should August be coerced into apologising for comments that are site-legal and which he sincerely believes in, however controversial.

There is a fine line between criticising authority (which is acceptable) and dogpiling (which is not). We believe that the recent actions of Thaecia, many important figures in TSP, and others constitute dogpiling. The Government of Sophia will no doubt be looking forward to working with the Augustin Alliance whenever possible. It will not be seeking to engage TSP - which has, for example, proscribed the entirety of The Black Hawks on extremely flimsy evidence - nor Thaecia any time soon.

No sanctions or punishments will be applied against any region or individual as a consequence of this statement.

Signed by the Government and Cabinet of Sophia:
Tinhampton, President and Philosopher-Queen
Yoyoyoyoyo, Foreign Minister
Yofflandia, Entertainment Minister
Freestateland, Emissary for Civil Rights

It's not "cancel culture" to call someone out on their bullshit. You are a self-proclaimed Cambridge graduate older than the majority of this game's playerbase. Act like it.

[The Python]

[Snipped]