Influencers & Political Change

[Unibot III]

I strongly agree with HEM’s observations, but I am skeptical however that a strong Discord presence must be necessary for Gameplay advancement; I think players can exert their own leadership and their own individuality — you choose to define the terms of your advancement. I see this change as a conformity problem, where players get sucked into the Discord bubble and assign status to its influencers because players are following the crowd: what they think is important is just what they think others think they’re supposed to think is important.

[Lord Dominator]

You're mistaking "should be necessary" for "is necessary" - whether or not someone likes it, Discord is for the most part where all/most of the people, activity, and government activity generally is.

[The Church of Satan]

Yeah a lot of regional activity takes place on Discord these days. Diplomatic discussions/negotiations, R/D for all the parts that aren't gameside, planning for cultural activity (and the bulk of cultural activity itself), planning for WA initiatives, mentor programs, etc. The few things that don't take place in Discord include elections and legislative activities but the discussions for those also inevitably take place (in part) on Discord. Some small regions do all of it in-game but they are the miniscule minority in NationStates that don't use Discord.

[Unibot III]

You're mistaking "should be necessary" for "is necessary" - whether or not someone likes it, Discord is for the most part where all/most of the people, activity, and government activity generally is.

I don't think I'm making that mistake. When I was more active, it was sort of a transitional time: forums were active but you still had this rising influencer culture on IRC, Skype, and MSN. And yet I spent more time on NS than I did social platforms. In my experience, it doesn't detract from your ability to lead if your priority isn't to lead social circles.

I made enemies and I think part of the equation in this essay left indirectly said is that transcending influencers is about being willing to make enemies and threaten a status quo by demonstrating an indifference to their priorities. I think this is the essential element of real leadership. You lead, you don't follow. You transcend the superficial. Respect and contempt are a package deal.

[Lord Dominator]

You're mistaking "should be necessary" for "is necessary" - whether or not someone likes it, Discord is for the most part where all/most of the people, activity, and government activity generally is.

I don't think I'm making that mistake. When I was more active, it was sort of a transitional time: forums were active but you still had this rising influencer culture on IRC, Skype, and MSN. And yet I spent more time on NS than I did social platforms. In my experience, it doesn't detract from your ability to lead if your priority isn't to lead social circles.

I made enemies and I think part of the equation in this essay left indirectly said is that transcending influencers is about being willing to make enemies and threaten a status quo by demonstrating an indifference to their priorities. I think this is the essential element of real leadership. You lead, you don't follow. You transcend the superficial. Respect and contempt are a package deal.

Yes, but my point isn't that you can't buck the crowds in that sense, but that a lot of actual government activity (it varies by region) is conducted on Discord. To use an example I'm familiar with, TNP (probably on the lower end of use of Discord for government activity) has effectively the entire Executive government running mainly through Discord, and the other branches aren't exactly not using it to my knowledge. Saying you're willing to make enemies is great and all, but it's hard to be a leader without Discord when that's where all the people to lead are.

[King HEM]

I don't think I'm making that mistake. When I was more active, it was sort of a transitional time: forums were active but you still had this rising influencer culture on IRC, Skype, and MSN. And yet I spent more time on NS than I did social platforms. In my experience, it doesn't detract from your ability to lead if your priority isn't to lead social circles.

I made enemies and I think part of the equation in this essay left indirectly said is that transcending influencers is about being willing to make enemies and threaten a status quo by demonstrating an indifference to their priorities. I think this is the essential element of real leadership. You lead, you don't follow. You transcend the superficial. Respect and contempt are a package deal.

Yes, but my point isn't that you can't buck the crowds in that sense, but that a lot of actual government activity (it varies by region) is conducted on Discord. To use an example I'm familiar with, TNP (probably on the lower end of use of Discord for government activity) has effectively the entire Executive government running mainly through Discord, and the other branches aren't exactly not using it to my knowledge. Saying you're willing to make enemies is great and all, but it's hard to be a leader without Discord when that's where all the people to lead are.

I agree with this for what it's worth. I also think it's going to be really hard//impossible to put that genie back in the bottle.

I honestly think there are a lot of things forums are vastly superior over Discord for. But most of those things are only apparent in higher complexity, gameplay democracy regions or roleplay regions. That leaves a broad swath of folks for whom I think threaded environments still offer advantages, but it's a lot less intuitive.

I hope there can be something of a "forum renaissance" amongst the regions where it makes the most sense. But getting people to hop into a new server will always be easier than creating an account for a non-universal forum platform. Also, lower level activities in NS (socializing etc.) are better utilized through Discord, meaning you really have to put a lot of energy on forum tasks. Just a lot of incentives not going the right way for forums.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Agree with King HEM. Especially about the ease of account creation. I'd like to run portions of Europe's government forum side (and legislation pre-dating Discord places it there) but actually doing so usefully is very difficult.

Big agree also on the 'moderating chat is very hard' remarks earlier.

[The Church of Satan]

The account creation process for forums is a non-issue. Kids these days are just too lazy to undergo the two minute process. Asking them to check the inbox of their gmail account? Oh no! They have been defeated by this "long" and "Tedious" process! It isn't a problem with forums. It's a real world societal issue of kids not learning the slightest bit of patience.

[Jar Wattinree]

The account creation process for forums is a non-issue. Kids these days are just too lazy to undergo the two minute process. Asking them to check the inbox of their gmail account? Oh no! They have been defeated by this "long" and "Tedious" process! It isn't a problem with forums. It's a real world societal issue of kids not learning the slightest bit of patience.

This guy gets it.

[The Seeker of Power]

The account creation process for forums is a non-issue. Kids these days are just too lazy to undergo the two minute process. Asking them to check the inbox of their gmail account? Oh no! They have been defeated by this "long" and "Tedious" process! It isn't a problem with forums. It's a real world societal issue of kids not learning the slightest bit of patience.

This guy gets it.

I've heard the "Forum is too hard" complaint 3 times this week... and I must agree wholeheartedly with CoS and Jar here... Give me 3 miles of a break please...

[The Church of Satan]

This guy gets it.

I've heard the "Forum is too hard" complaint 3 times this week... and I must agree wholeheartedly with CoS and Jar here... Give me 3 miles of a break please...

And is it really so hard? They'll do it if it means creating an account on TikTok but somehow it's just "too difficult" to participate more in the region? Sorry kids but you're just lying to us and you're lying to yourselves.

[Comfed]

It’s hard to make a forum account? News to me.

[Lord Dominator]

I think focusing solely on account creation is missing the point, which I took rather to be that it's easier to get someone to do a little bit more of what they're already doing (being on Discord) then to have them participate on a forum, particularly when much of the activity has already drifted to the former.

[The Church of Satan]

I think focusing solely on account creation is missing the point, which I took rather to be that it's easier to get someone to do a little bit more of what they're already doing (being on Discord) then to have them participate on a forum, particularly when much of the activity has already drifted to the former.

Oh no, for years now new players have complained about how registering an account on the forum is "too hard." I've been hearing it myself for at least the last four years.

[New Rogernomics]

Oh no, for years now new players have complained about how registering an account on the forum is "too hard." I've been hearing it myself for at least the last four years.

There's a plugin for that, for most forum software. No excuse now in Lazarus, ever since I enabled one click account creation via Discord.

[Reploid Productions]

Dear gods, Nationstates has officially been around long enough to spark generation arguments. "You kids and your Discords too lazy to make forum accounts! In MY day we only had IRC and regional forums and WE LIKED IT!"

[The Church of Satan]

Dear gods, Nationstates has officially been around long enough to spark generation arguments. "You kids and your Discords too lazy to make forum accounts! In MY day we only had IRC and regional forums and WE LIKED IT!"

And in just two months NationStates will be an adult. It will be old enough to smoke. It'll graduate from high school, have to get its own place, pay bills and go to college. These political simulator websites...THEY GROW UP SO FAST.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

As someone who's been around for long enough to remember when everything was done on forums and live chat was the occasional affair, not the other way around, I'm actually finding a lot of "forum" based content to no longer be relevant to me at all. The main things that forums seem to be used more successfully for is role play (which I can't be stuffed to invest the creative energy in), and regional governments, and I'm not sure this isn't the fault of regional government architects. For everything else, Discord is almost certainly going to be the better option. It doesn't help that I'd rather pee in a slow cooker and run it overnight than use Tapatalk, either. If you're full on in your region and what they use is normalcy for you, you won't see an issue with the forum, but from my perspective as a now very casual participant... I can't figure out why I'd be on your forum.

[Sandaoguo]

As someone who's been around for long enough to remember when everything was done on forums and live chat was the occasional affair, not the other way around, I'm actually finding a lot of "forum" based content to no longer be relevant to me at all. The main things that forums seem to be used more successfully for is role play (which I can't be stuffed to invest the creative energy in), and regional governments, and I'm not sure this isn't the fault of regional government architects. For everything else, Discord is almost certainly going to be the better option. It doesn't help that I'd rather pee in a slow cooker and run it overnight than use Tapatalk, either. If you're full on in your region and what they use is normalcy for you, you won't see an issue with the forum, but from my perspective as a now very casual participant... I can't figure out why I'd be on your forum.

If you subtract regional governance from Gameplay, all you have left is the socializing.

[Unibot III]

As someone who's been around for long enough to remember when everything was done on forums and live chat was the occasional affair, not the other way around, I'm actually finding a lot of "forum" based content to no longer be relevant to me at all. The main things that forums seem to be used more successfully for is role play (which I can't be stuffed to invest the creative energy in), and regional governments, and I'm not sure this isn't the fault of regional government architects. For everything else, Discord is almost certainly going to be the better option. It doesn't help that I'd rather pee in a slow cooker and run it overnight than use Tapatalk, either. If you're full on in your region and what they use is normalcy for you, you won't see an issue with the forum, but from my perspective as a now very casual participant... I can't figure out why I'd be on your forum.

If you subtract regional governance from Gameplay, all you have left is the socializing.

Which is exactly the problem I hoped to raise with this essay. :/

Should NS be a social platform or a political game? I think GP is at a crossroads on that, or may have chosen the former altogether.

[Drunken Conquerors]

Dear gods, Nationstates has officially been around long enough to spark generation arguments. "You kids and your Discords too lazy to make forum accounts! In MY day we only had IRC and regional forums and WE LIKED IT!"

This is a good perspective. We have the older players, either who started right up with the game or shortly thereafter, "pre influencers", and then those that came later. All of the arguments around the loose term "political correctness" came from the new people, the older players are....well older. We recall time before safe spaces and some of us remember back when griefing was the norm, nor a blacklist worthy offense. You were deeted by the mods for that action.

If you subtract regional governance from Gameplay, all you have left is the socializing.

Which is exactly the problem I hoped to raise with this essay. :/

Should NS be a social platform or a political game? I think GP is at a crossroads on that, or may have chosen the former altogether.

"NS "Should" be a political simulation game, which is what it IS. Newer nations seem intently focused on pushing change to focus on the player, and ignore the inherent "game" of having a nation doingamusing things with other nations. I am saddened by it all, as it speaks to a deeper illness of NS....the new nations find it boring and augment it with the aptly named discord, and create extreme levels of dramatics with the players behind the nations. And these so called "influencers" that exist by self appointment, exist within those echo chambers affirming one another that these choices they make are correct.

Meanwhile normal gameplay nations become targeted for all sorts of reasons, including rejected unwanted advances from the "influencers." Its a pretty jacked up situation, and I do not see it getting better soon. I wish I had a solution to offer, or even an idea to brainstorm, but the degeneration of NS into essentially an AOL chat room (for those of you old enough to recall) is depraved imho.

[The Church of Satan]

These days either everything is expected to be a social platform or the new generation is trying to turn everything into a social platform. But that's not what NationStates is. By all means socialize but the kids need to keep in mind that this is a game and not a place to vent their teenage angst or become the next social media trend. I suppose one could take that to an RP but that would still just be one of many different subsets in NationStates. Gameplay especially is not the place to be if you're looking for a pseudo-twitter/facebook. It is a place for regional government. R/D, journalism, invitations to fun festivals, etc.

[Yokiria]

This thread summed up perfectly:

[The Church of Satan]

Yokiria, your post is missing at least three hashtags, a selfie and a tide pod challenge video.

[Lord Dominator]

It is a place for regional government. R/D, journalism, invitations to fun festivals, etc.

I've seen no real threats to anything other than maybe the first one, and I personally attribute that more to certain structural problems causing boredom than anything to do with the people (cliques are perfectly capable of having the same rivalries as ideologues, if not worse).