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Curious Observations | I was right!

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Curious Observations
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Curious Observations | I was right!

Postby Curious Observations » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:55 pm

Image

Curious Observations


"Curious Observations" is an infrequently published newspaper by Roavin, focusing on the wider gameplay world. Anything portrayed as a fact is based on either publicly available information, things experienced directly of which a record exists, or based on two or more independent accounts; conclusions and conjectures will be biased by Roavin's world view but marked accordingly.

If you have any questions, or wish to submit information for publication and analysis through Curious Observations, please send a private message in Discord to Roavin#5410.




Last edited by Curious Observations on Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm always open for interesting information about nations and regions. Write me on Discord at Roavin#5410.

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Curious Observations
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Curious Observations » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:56 pm

I was right.

I have considered reviving this brand for quite some time. It has been known that Curious Observations is me (Roavin) for nearly 2 years now; and given Curious Observations’ controversial nature and the underlying principle of combining hard data with biased analysis, I thought it would be a perfect platform for ... well ... curious observations. I just never had a topic where I simultaneously had the drive for it and also the time to do it before TRT/NST/whoever got to it.

Well, such a topic now arose, and while it's admittedly self-serving, I still think it's interesting and fits perfectly under this label. The summary: I was absolutely right with my first Curious Observations article, and we now have the receipts for it.

Let's set the scene. It's 2017. Badger was Delegate of TWP. Nobody knew about Adytus being Feux or Wrektopia being AMOM. I was still First Warden of TGW. TSP was not Defender, and it was Aleisyr and Pergamon running NPO. Lazarus, at the time, was a defender region and operated under the Celestial Union government, a fresh successor of the HRL government that was formed in the aftermath of the NLO coup. Funkadelia, long-time defender and native of Lazarus, was its Delegate. But tensions were brewing within Lazarus - the Celestial Union was an attempt at doing interesting things to drive activity, but it wasn't working and caused more problems than it tried to solve. Furthermore, Funkadelia had recently defected from defenderdom to join LWU, and Lamb Stone followed him to Lazarus. It didn't take long for rifts to form which looked to be (and in some cases were) raider vs defender fights. As reconfirmation votes for Guardians were coming, plus with Delegate elections looming, the situation became more and more tense between the factions.

It slowly became apparent to those on the anti-Funk side that a whole bunch of people were coming in, mostly raider leaning. An underground started forming (later known as "La Resistance"). On July 12, the tally of LWU people in Lazarus reached 7, and at that point I began to ponder. Here's an excerpt from an exchange I had with my good friend Nakari that day:

Roavin: [I had] the greater realization that it's not unreasonable to think that the recent happenings in TWP and Laz are part of a bigger picture.
Nakari: people trying to shake things up so that theyll be the ones who float to the top?
Roavin: Pretty much.
Roavin: Rahl family working towards owning a few GCRs.


On July 15, I figured it would be worth seeing if the subjective feeling of the anti-Funk crowd was valid or just reinforcement bias. Nakari helped me by gathering data on recent citizenship applications, and I put them into a spreadsheet for tabulation and analysis. The results were telling - I tried really hard, but even considering things like migration of friends, I could not conceive of a realistic scenario that explained the results in any fashion other than deliberate voter importation. But I couldn't do anything about it - I was still First Warden of TGW, and also now Prime Minister of TSP (a treaty ally of Lazarus). Anything I did would reflect badly on them and add more fuel to the fire.

So, I decided to do it anonymously. On July 17, I wrote this article, under an alias (this one, precisely). It showed the data that was gathered, the reasonable conclusion to be drawn from it, and I framed it as fairly as I could make it, by being forward about the anti-Funk importation that happened in response, as well as not pointing the finger at any particular region or organization (the only mentions of LWU and Rahl were in the descriptions of the ostensibly imported voters).

While the article did succeed in validating the subjective feelings, it wasn't effectively used to portray the issue, and in the ensuing civil war, the resistance lost the PR fight and ultimately the region. Most regions stayed out of it entirely; some were unsure which side was right (or thought neither was); others saw that the importation was obvious but were put off by the incompetence of the resistance. Meanwhile, Curious Observations became part revered and part reviled, and the identity search was on, on all sides of the issue (pro-Funk, anti-Funk, neutral). The resistance got extorted to reveal an identity they didn't know, and I had to face a lot of awkward DMs about people trying to pin it on me or getting me to help find out who it was. I covered my tracks well, however - the people that knew were people I trusted to keep it secret, I had somebody else admit WA on the nation for a time, and I even held fake Discord conversations between Curious Observations and Roavin from which I lifted screenshots.

A year and a half later I revealed myself, as somebody who had inadvertently found out held a very severe grudge on me and was about to reveal it (and I felt it was better to get ahead of the story). The fallout by then was not too bad; it did end up costing me a job on the new Lazarus Court (during Imki's reign, after it was freed from the shenanigans of Funk and the gang), but otherwise it was okay-ish. I started to think that maybe I should have handled it differently afterall (though I did not know how). For the most part, the topic became dull to most people, and a meme to some. The only reason the topic even remained in the heads of people was the constant arguments I would have on the NSGP Discord server with Evil Wolf about the topic, where I would claim that the data in the article is correct and he would claim that it proves nothing.

Fast forward to ... 8 days ago. Out of the blue, TEP inadvertently gave me a present worthy of being birthday and Christmas combined for a decade. In this request for information, logs surfaced that proved pretty much all of my assertions.

First, it was proven that voters were being imported.
Image
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Second, it was proven that they were directed on how to vote.
Image
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Note: That last screenshot came after the release of the TEP information, when I asked Altino about those early Rahl days. Altino left Rahl about a year and a half later.


And last but not least ... remember what I said about Rahl to Nakari?

Image


Not only was the article right, but my further conjecture that I didn't put into the article was right as well. Voters were deliberately imported to Lazarus, with the knowledge of Funk and the gang, directed to vote accordingly, and it was orchestrated with the cooperation of, and the benefit of, the Rahl family. Quod Erad Demonstrandum, Evil Wolf.

"But Roavin," I hear you say, "why does this matter in 2020? This happened in 2017!"

Well, there are a few things.

First, if there was still anybody that wants to claim that this is a dumb "Rahlspiracy", I think after the Fedele coup last year and this new information, we can finally confirm that us "Rahlspiracists" were, frankly, correct. And if I may make a further conjecture here: There are a lot of things we don't even know about, and we probably won't know about all of it either, particularly given the nature of how Rahl worked. But honestly this shouldn't be a surprise - a family that considers itself the "true NS aristocracy" (as per their own roster document), that discusses whether they are rather a "GCR mafia" or the "templars", and has now provably engaged in these sorts of shenanigans twice already is surely bound to have a few more skeletons in its closet, even if we won't ever get to see them. (That being said, if anybody has some sauce on Drall's ventures in TSP, I'd be happy to have it)

Second, this does affect the state of things to this day. Rahl wanted to get Laz closer to TWP and Osiris (both ostensibly Rahl strongholds at the time). The first two regions that Lazarus allied itself with after Imki took over from Funk and the gang were those very two regions. However, Lazarus remains in a fruitless war against the region that at the time was trying to fight against that very Rahl-directed votestacking (even if the approach was highly problematic and they misidentified the threat as LWU rather than Rahl).

Third, ... well, honestly, after all the crap I've gotten both directly and indirectly for Curious Observations, as well as for the Rahlspiracy, it feels very nice to be vindicated.

I certainly have more to say on how these revelations contextualize the current political landscape of GP, but I'll leave that for another time. For now, I will take my leave, basking in the knowledge that finally, three years later, I can claim without reservation that I was right.

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Ike, you fucking legend
I'm always open for interesting information about nations and regions. Write me on Discord at Roavin#5410.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:34 pm

Sorry could you repeat that for those in the back? Who was right?
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Amerion
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Founded: Mar 21, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Amerion » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:11 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Sorry could you repeat that for those in the back? Who was right?

The Khanate of course!
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Polder Eiland
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Polder Eiland » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:14 pm

Amerion wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Sorry could you repeat that for those in the back? Who was right?

The Khanate of course!

Another victory for the khanate.
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Queen Yuno
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Queen Yuno » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:55 pm

Unrelated but "CO was Right" is a cute theme
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Galiantus III wrote:


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Vancouvia wrote:
Vancouvia wrote:

Alright my bad I guess I'll check back in December 21st


No way

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Roavin
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:27 am

Queen Yuno wrote:Unrelated but "CO was Right" is a cute theme


Alternatively, one could say I was COrrect.
RoavinA Francoist-Defenderist Subversive from the South Pacific

"Not to mention TSP are some democracy wankers
and democracy wanking is peak defender
" — Tim

NS Coders Discord | I am a LOLcat | Former First Warden of TGW | aka Curious Observations

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Daytime to Night
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Founded: Dec 04, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daytime to Night » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:07 am

Cormac went in on this calling it a "fake news nothingburger" and a "outlandish conspiracy" that was "neither factual nor reasonable". Oddly enough, Jo and EW called his Miniluv articles about the emerging TEP coup "lies" from "conspiracy theorists". What goes around comes around.

Of course the more telling responses where the light-hearted jokes and deflections from those who were actually in on (or leading) the vote-stacking and the complete non-engagement of the likes of Funk etc who were directly involved in events in the region.

[quote=Badger]Here's the real question: what kind of shitlaw allows nations to sign up for citizenship and immediately vote in an ONGOING election?

Ah, NS democracy at its finest!

Someone please post odds on the secret identity. Sounds like fun wagering opportunities![/quote]

[quote=Altino]Yes, actually, please classify me as a True Native. Zao said I could be one and I don't like the idea of being fake news, thank you.[/quote]


It's a poor reflection of this community that everyone smiles and jokes with these people whilst they ignore and poke fun at natives who are going red in the face trying to keep the regions they have built together.

Perhaps we can be a bit more savvy going forward. Its blindingly obvious that the repeat perpetrators come from two regions in TWP/LWU (I appreciate in the past they've predominantly come from the UDL, and before it Equilism/TWP) and yet everyone keeps papering over the cracks with those regions, signing treaties with them, holding events, raiding with them, breathing life into their regions and welcoming them to become citizens in their regions.

Then you get usual misdirection and the typecast people like NES unhelpfully wailing "GCR's: Watch out. Defenderism is back, and its out to get you" in response to hard evidence (whilst their raider friends are the ones plotting behind their backs to coup them).

I won't hold my breath, but if it looks like a rat you've seen before, and its acting like a rat, it probably isn't the kitten its claiming to be.
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Zaolat II
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Founded: Oct 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Zaolat II » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:59 am

Daytime to Night wrote:-snip-

wow I am offendered that you leaked a screenshot with me words being leaked by Alti to Badger.

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The Church of Satan
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 pm

Was this necessary though? I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point. Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Curious Observations
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Curious Observations » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:07 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:Was this necessary though? I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point.


Okay but that's not the point here. The point here is that even though many of us saw it at the time, there was never proof and the opposite side denied it even long after their Dominion died out.

The Church of Satan wrote:Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.


Are you sure you mean the current Laz government, and not the Undead Dominion?
I'm always open for interesting information about nations and regions. Write me on Discord at Roavin#5410.

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Indo-Malaysia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Indo-Malaysia » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:43 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:Was this necessary though? I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point. Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.

This was blatantly obvious when the post-Liberation constitutional convention was abolished and for a time had a de facto monarchy/junta.
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Devi
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Founded: Nov 09, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Devi » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:16 pm

Indo-Malaysia wrote:
The Church of Satan wrote:Was this necessary though? I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point. Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.

This was blatantly obvious when the post-Liberation constitutional convention was abolished and for a time had a de facto monarchy/junta.

Is it really in vogue to look at the Lazarus ConCon, of all things, with rose-tinted glasses? Like holy heck how is it not universally agreed that it was a flaming dumpster fire and needed to be put out of its misery? :p
any opinions stated are definitely 100% representative of TBH and every other region i'm a part of :)

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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point. Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.


to be fair, the OFO took a similar action, and anyone that predicted "things are about to go horribly wrong in Osiris" would have been wrong. so apparently it does take a Curious Observation
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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:32 pm

Curious Observations wrote:Are you sure you mean the current Laz government, and not the Undead Dominion?

I do indeed mean the current one. Lazcorp (god what a boring theme they picked) only occurred because Imki forcibly took charge of Lazarus and declared a fresh start for everyone. I guarantee you that boring office space of a government wouldn't have happened if Lazarus' biggest traitors were barred from the region as they should have been.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Curious Observations
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Curious Observations » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:09 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Curious Observations wrote:Are you sure you mean the current Laz government, and not the Undead Dominion?

I do indeed mean the current one. Lazcorp (god what a boring theme they picked) only occurred because Imki forcibly took charge of Lazarus and declared a fresh start for everyone. I guarantee you that boring office space of a government wouldn't have happened if Lazarus' biggest traitors were barred from the region as they should have been.


No, you're very wrong (and I speak with a good deal of both first and second hand knowledge on this matter).

Imki liberated Lazarus from the Khanate (at that time with Delegate Killer Kitty aka Evil Wolf). After a week of "Anarchy", the Peacekeeper agreement was signed, under which Imki would act as a caretaker whilst former Lazarenes of all stripes would convene to craft a new constitution. During the convention, Evil Wolf was not allowed to participate, and neither were Funk or Lamb (though they did not attempt to). While well intentioned, the convention soon turned to chaos, with a big source of the chaos being several individuals that had formerly associated themselves with the resistance. Given that the convention was unable to produce a sensible document, Cormac (at the request of Imki) wrote Mandate 12, a sort of TSP-meets-Osiris autocratic constitution designed specifically to allow easy addition of democratic principles piece by piece as Lazarus stabilizes itself.

Remember the context of the fresh start - we didn't know many of the things we do now. All we knew was that both sides were in varying amounts shady and/or idiotic (the Funk crowd more the former, the resistance crowd more the latter), and this is also why so many places stayed out of the civil war that otherwise wouldn't have. So Imki set out a fresh start to explicitly state that nobody was right, nobody won, it's all now a thing of the past and it's time to reconcile and rebuild Lazarus. She then appointed both Harmoneia and Killer Kitty/Evil Wolf as the first Guardians of Lazarus as symbols of that reconciliation.

So, your claim that this wouldn't have happened is wrong. Imki deposed Evil Wolf, and he was only a part again after this government was already established.

Going back to your original statement, then:

The Church of Satan wrote:Was this necessary though? I mean the most blaring and obvious sign that something had gone horribly wrong in Lazarus was when they pardoned all the people who had couped the region up to that point. Doesn't take a Curious Observation to see that the current Lazarene government is the result of shady dealings.


If by "shady dealings" you mean how Imki enacted Mandate 12, then you may be technically correct but in the most meaningless way possible because you completely ignore the context of how that came to be. And again, the point of the article was about the civil war in 2017, not what happened in 2018.
I'm always open for interesting information about nations and regions. Write me on Discord at Roavin#5410.

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Honeydewistania
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:16 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Curious Observations wrote:Are you sure you mean the current Laz government, and not the Undead Dominion?

I do indeed mean the current one. Lazcorp (god what a boring theme they picked) only occurred because Imki forcibly took charge of Lazarus and declared a fresh start for everyone. I guarantee you that boring office space of a government wouldn't have happened if Lazarus' biggest traitors were barred from the region as they should have been.

It’s not boring! That’s like saying Amazon is boring. I’m enjoying earning the big bucks while the proles slave away at below minimum wage and bathroom breaks are banned. Life is good!
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Imkihca
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Founded: Feb 01, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Imkihca » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:43 am

CoS didn't seem to mind my 'shady dealings' when he was asking to be made vice-delgate. :p
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Twins of Hearts
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Posts: 174
Founded: Nov 07, 2004
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Twins of Hearts » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:31 am

Imkihca wrote:CoS didn't seem to mind my 'shady dealings' when he was asking to be made vice-delgate. :p


Le Gasp.

I do admire your tenacity as well as your technical skill Roavin.

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The Church of Satan
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:58 pm

Imkihca wrote:CoS didn't seem to mind my 'shady dealings' when he was asking to be made vice-delgate. :p

You still had the slightest bit of legitimacy at the time. You know, before you declared yourself dictator.
Twins of Hearts wrote:Le Gasp.

I do admire your tenacity as well as your technical skill Roavin.

Aren't you supposed to be blacklisted or something for trying to doxx someone? Go. Scurry back under your rock. >_>
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Roavin
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:38 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Imkihca wrote:CoS didn't seem to mind my 'shady dealings' when he was asking to be made vice-delgate. :p

You still had the slightest bit of legitimacy at the time. You know, before you declared yourself dictator.


Also wrong — you requested that on July 15, 2018, which was 6 days after Mandate 12 was put into place.

And given that Mandate 12 was explicitly designed to support a democratic framework, which has now been put into place, and Imki abdicated in favor of an indisputable Lazarene upholding those same principles ... well, I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at.
RoavinA Francoist-Defenderist Subversive from the South Pacific

"Not to mention TSP are some democracy wankers
and democracy wanking is peak defender
" — Tim

NS Coders Discord | I am a LOLcat | Former First Warden of TGW | aka Curious Observations

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Apostate
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Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Apostate » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:50 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Imkihca wrote:CoS didn't seem to mind my 'shady dealings' when he was asking to be made vice-delgate. :p

You still had the slightest bit of legitimacy at the time. You know, before you declared yourself dictator.
Twins of Hearts wrote:Le Gasp.

I do admire your tenacity as well as your technical skill Roavin.

Aren't you supposed to be blacklisted or something for trying to doxx someone? Go. Scurry back under your rock. >_>


Ad Hominem.

You remain as unpleasant as ever. And also as wrong as ever. Go read the Sun and invest in some seaside property on the Salton Sea, wouldja?
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The Church of Satan
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:25 pm

Roavin wrote:Also wrong — you requested that on July 15, 2018, which was 6 days after Mandate 12 was put into place.

And given that Mandate 12 was explicitly designed to support a democratic framework, which has now been put into place, and Imki abdicated in favor of an indisputable Lazarene upholding those same principles ... well, I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at.

Was it? I may not be a rambling old man but I sure do have the mind of one.
Apostate wrote:Ad Hominem.

You remain as unpleasant as ever. And also as wrong as ever. Go read the Sun and invest in some seaside property on the Salton Sea, wouldja?

Do I know you? >_>
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Rejected Realms: Former Delegate | Former Vice Delegate | Longest Consecutively Serving Officer in TRR History - 824 Days

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Altmoras
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Founded: Jan 25, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Altmoras » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:48 pm

As someone who was on the Council during the Lazarus ConCon I can say with absolute confidence that it was a shitshow and Imki was 100% in the right to take decisive action to get the region on track. The main problem with it was that those involved were too inactive or apathetic to decide on anything, and those of us that were active spent too much time being considerate the potential wishes of those who were inactive to actually get anything done. The entire process was inconsistent, indecisive, and ultimately unproductive.

Can't say I agree with pardoning the very people who led the region down the toilet for their own amusement, but it seems to have turned out fine.
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Boda
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Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Boda » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:04 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Roavin wrote:Also wrong — you requested that on July 15, 2018, which was 6 days after Mandate 12 was put into place.

And given that Mandate 12 was explicitly designed to support a democratic framework, which has now been put into place, and Imki abdicated in favor of an indisputable Lazarene upholding those same principles ... well, I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at.

Was it? I may not be a rambling old man but I sure do have the mind of one.
Apostate wrote:Ad Hominem.

You remain as unpleasant as ever. And also as wrong as ever. Go read the Sun and invest in some seaside property on the Salton Sea, wouldja?

Do I know you? >_>

:rofl:
The Order of the Grey Wardens
In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice.

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