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Guess the next GCR coup

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Which GCR will be the next to suffer a coup?

Poll ended at Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:22 am

The North Pacific
9
13%
The East Pacific
8
11%
The South Pacific
5
7%
The Pacific
2
3%
The West Pacific
11
15%
Lazarus
20
28%
Osiris
3
4%
Balder
9
13%
The Rejected Realms
4
6%
 
Total votes : 71

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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:51 am

Gorundu wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:But surely, that would mean that there is some sort of conspiracy forming. I know they say their security board or whatever will catch this in seconds, but there are people who don’t endorse the delegate, and don’t actually like the way it’s run.
I, for one, when I was in TWP, didn’t like the way it was run and didn’t endorse the delegate. It’s very feudalist and heirarchical to a point.

One person not endorsing the delegate isn't "some sort of conspiracy forming".

well, I understand that, I was just giving some evidence.
there are conspirators of some kind to virtually every major region here in some form or another.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:04 am

Sedgistan wrote:Warzone Airspace.


This is the correct answer, runner-up: Warzone Australia. It's incredible to me how much more active, built-up, and interesting the Warzones are compared to a few years ago however.

Hot take: The East Pacific.

Lazarus is the obvious (and probably logical) choice given the pitfalls of stabilizing a GCR. Lazarus has undergone an unusually long, sustained period of instability and regime change, but it's also a region that is exhausted with civil strife which helps to perpetuate good will and satisfaction with the provisional terms of reconstruction...

Balder is the choice everyone wants but ain't going to happen - not at least until NES moves on from the game.

The East Pacific is also undergoing its own reconstruction post-Fedele but the cultural, political, and legal conditions still persist in The East Pacific that allowed Fedele and the Rahls to concilidate power in the first place; the very same conditions that enabled the marsupial exodus and the Aelitia crisis (2017). It's a sort of pernicious cliquism that I associate with the old KRO, an attitude that invites untrustworthy players to join and repeatedly defends undemocratic behaviour to the outside world. The rapprochement with NPO should also be a red flag.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:04 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:29 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Bormiar wrote:I would be very entertained if someone tried to coup TNP over that article, especially if it were NSToday who did it :p.


i get that you are dedicated to hating NST but how the hell would they coup anything?

He was suggesting that TNP would receive some sort of consequence from them or their supporters. I understand why his other examples might get a bystander to dislike TNP, but he was clearly implying that TNP shouldn’t be angering NST. In the context of this thread, that means that they or their supporters would be trying to coup TNP. I only said that it would be funny if they tried to coup.

Unless he meant that it would be a motley band of frustrated SC authors who would ultimately rise up against the North Pacific in retribution for their voting. Any idea where he got that “vote for only if has NPA” thing from?
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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:42 am

Unibot III wrote:The rapprochement with NPO should also be a red flag.

Gasp. You mean the treaty that was signed in 2018 and that we've honored, especially the last time it was couped when I was involved with the Viziers in discussing security and support and helping them prepare countermeasures against various red flag moves by Scardino in the week leading up to the coup? If Scardino had won the coup it would still have favored us if we supported him, but we didn't and had no intentions of doing so. Couping the only ally that didn't abandon us in a dark hour would be rather counterproductive, don't you think? Especially if we just signed treaties and a NAP with three other treaty allies of TEP. If they're friendly, couping them and then losing it later would be, how to say this, completely idiotic.

I know you like to think we're simultaneously brainless and also manipulative masterminds aiming to take over the game, but one day you'll have to explain to me how you reconcile blatant imbecility with genius mastermind manipulators.
Last edited by Xoriet on Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Seeker of Power
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Postby The Seeker of Power » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:52 am

Xoriet wrote:
Unibot III wrote:The rapprochement with NPO should also be a red flag.

I know you like to think we're simultaneously brainless and also manipulative masterminds aiming to take over the game, but one day you'll have to explain to me how you reconcile blatant imbecility with genius mastermind manipulators.

He wears a tin foil hat for that.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:02 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:I, for one, when I was in TWP, didn’t like the way it was run and didn’t endorse the delegate. It’s very feudalist and heirarchical to a point.

For the ten minutes before I kicked you. The length of time you spent in the region does not make you an expert on how it’s run.
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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:03 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:I, for one, when I was in TWP, didn’t like the way it was run and didn’t endorse the delegate. It’s very feudalist and heirarchical to a point.

For the ten minutes before I kicked you. The length of time you spent in the region does not make you an expert on how it’s run.

ermmm.... it wasn't ten minutes, I was founded in TWP and spent a month there.
you didn't know me, I didn't know you. So stop making reckless accusations and verify what you say.
Last edited by Mathuvan Union on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:25 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:For the ten minutes before I kicked you. The length of time you spent in the region does not make you an expert on how it’s run.

ermmm.... it wasn't ten minutes, I was founded in TWP and spent a month there.
you didn't know me, I didn't know you. So stop making reckless accusations and verify what you say.

But I’m guessing it was the second in which you found out you were banned that caused you to dislike TWP, not the month before.
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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:34 am

Bormiar wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:ermmm.... it wasn't ten minutes, I was founded in TWP and spent a month there.
you didn't know me, I didn't know you. So stop making reckless accusations and verify what you say.

But I’m guessing it was the second in which you found out you were banned that caused you to dislike TWP, not the month before.

well, part of the reason at the very least.
Last edited by Mathuvan Union on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Libertanny
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Postby Libertanny » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:52 am

Imho it will be The East Pacific.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 am

Xoriet wrote:
Unibot III wrote:The rapprochement with NPO should also be a red flag.

Gasp. You mean the treaty that was signed in 2018 and that we've honored, especially the last time it was couped when I was involved with the Viziers in discussing security and support and helping them prepare countermeasures against various red flag moves by Scardino in the week leading up to the coup? If Scardino had won the coup it would still have favored us if we supported him, but we didn't and had no intentions of doing so. Couping the only ally that didn't abandon us in a dark hour would be rather counterproductive, don't you think? Especially if we just signed treaties and a NAP with three other treaty allies of TEP. If they're friendly, couping them and then losing it later would be, how to say this, completely idiotic.

I know you like to think we're simultaneously brainless and also manipulative masterminds aiming to take over the game, but one day you'll have to explain to me how you reconcile blatant imbecility with genius mastermind manipulators.


That's some serious revisionism. The Rahls were occupying spaces and positions of power in 2016-2018 that the NPO had once considered solidly within its sphere of influence. Therefore, opposing the Rahls was a major priority for NPO's foreign policy because of the influence that the Rahls had consolidated in regions (TEP, TWP, and Lazarus) that the NPO had previously thought of as its pseudo-dominions.

With the Rahls out of the picture, the door is now open again to return TEP to NPO's political orbit. The NPO was never going to alliance with the Rahls, the NPO is much better off with Fedele having lost control in the East Pacific.

I also didn't say treaty, I said rapprochement. I was referring to the sustained re-engagement of TEP through official diplomatic channels, but this also includes unofficial soft diplomacy and the Pacific's diaspora in TEP.

As for the brainless/manipulative contradiction you've raised, I don't know why you'd think I think that about the NPO. I've always said I thought the NPO recruited some of the most promising and brilliant gameplayers of my generation and incorporated them into their ranks - same goes for the generations before and after.

What I've also said is that being smart in the NPO comes with its own inherent risks to these individuals' positions. The components of the NPO that are unambitious, oblivious, or outsourced from outside of NS, serve their limited usefulness to such an extent that their political survival in the NPO is secure. The people with real plans and ambitions for the Order and for themselves are always whose heads are first to be dispatched to the chopping block.

That's the nature of imperial autocracy. The Order, as a collective, exploits a constant stream of other people's reputations, zeal, and aspirations. The NPO can't sustain its own ambition for expansionism without channeling the ambition of its recruits. It then chews these players out as collateral when the Order needs to demonstrate contrition on a semi-regular basis.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:58 am

Unibot III wrote:The rapprochement with NPO should also be a red flag.

Coincidentally, our war flag is also red.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:30 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:For the ten minutes before I kicked you. The length of time you spent in the region does not make you an expert on how it’s run.

ermmm.... it wasn't ten minutes, I was founded in TWP and spent a month there.
you didn't know me, I didn't know you. So stop making reckless accusations and verify what you say.

10 minutes, a month who cares. The point is that during that time you had zero interaction with either the TWP community or TWP’s government, yet you’re now an expert?

Didn’t endorse the Delegate? Oh you rebel you. :rofl:
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:33 am

Aww, voting's already closed.

I err... ahh, I honestly don't know, because I am not that familiar with NSGP, since I only spend some time here and there. I am gonna be ballsy enough to say TNP, but at the same time... Lazarus or Balder seems to be the common name associated with coups.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.



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North Prarie
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Postby North Prarie » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:38 am

The inactivity in Balder makes it perfect for a coup.
Other than that? It's hard, considering literally every other GCR has a council of security of some sort.
I guess i'd say TNP, considering there hasn't been a government change in forever (has it ever happened?) and their community seems ripe for some sort of populist to come in and rise to power.
Last edited by North Prarie on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:43 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:ermmm.... it wasn't ten minutes, I was founded in TWP and spent a month there.
you didn't know me, I didn't know you. So stop making reckless accusations and verify what you say.

10 minutes, a month who cares. The point is that during that time you had zero interaction with either the TWP community or TWP’s government, yet you’re now an expert?

Didn’t endorse the Delegate? Oh you rebel you. :rofl:

I'm such a rebel... (jk)
just because I didn't interact doesn't mean I didn't study the region
honestly I didn't because I didn't really like Bran and power hunger. No offence Bran.
Last edited by Mathuvan Union on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:50 am

A better question may be where is a coup more likely to actually work. It probably wouldn’t be (comparatively) so difficult to begin a coup of TNP, but their extremely high influence numbers means any lone-wolf operation will very likely be short-lived. My impression is that GCR security apparatuses are stronger than they used to be and GCR politics is a little less big on coups... but perhaps that’s because I’m not in a clique anywhere :P

Sadly, GCRs these days seem more concerned about protecting their regions from destruction than being lax, letting coups occur, and giving the lurkers an opportunity to munch popcorn. Gosh, who would imagine?
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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:57 am

Unibot III wrote:That's the nature of imperial autocracy. The Order, as a collective, exploits a constant stream of other people's reputations, zeal, and aspirations. The NPO can't sustain its own ambition for expansionism without channeling the ambition of its recruits. It then chews these players out as collateral when the Order needs to demonstrate contrition on a semi-regular basis.

It's easy to not be in that situation if you just don't do anything objectionable. Something you've never really understood, as being at the center of controversy in one way or another was always a delight. Couping things hasn't really worked out for us in the past, has it? There's exactly one successful instance of a coup in the entire history of NPO, because the game tends to not appreciate coups very much.

And you don't have to use the words to make it clear that's what you think.

Burning through allies on repeat and having to start over from scratch into eternity isn't what I'd call beneficial. Ambition is nice and all, until it leads you into a never-ending cycle of self-destructive actions. The People's Republic of Lazarus drained internal NPO activity because a great deal of resources went into preserving the state of Lazarus. Then when an ill-advised night of drugs led to an unnecessary coup, all of that was wasted. The TNP coups accomplished nothing except a state of neutrality and even some friendliness where NPO and TNP cooperate but are unlikely to ever manage to get to a point with formalized relations on paper because of several past violations of TNP sovereignty, no matter motives or how long ago. Memories don't fade enough to make up for that kind of violation.

There is absolutely no benefit in the current game of today, where IC villains are met with OOC attacks to remove them from the game, for anyone to actually want to be the villain. NPO made a very excellent villain once, but today? There is nothing to gain from it. People who play villain are treated like the worst criminals. Between the absolute lack of benefit that goes into maintaining imperialistic ambitions and the attitude used on people who actually dare to play the game in a different manner, there is zero incentive to volunteer to be in that position yet again.

In essence, you're calling us stupid by thinking that we'd repeat things that have historically never gone well, and today get you crucified as an OOC criminal rather than just an IC villain. It would be absolutely dumb for us to return to the trends of the old NPO in today's atmosphere. The time where you could be that kind of villain is gone, and a lot of players and regions who once thrived in that atmosphere know it.
Last edited by Xoriet on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:01 am

North Prarie wrote:The inactivity in Balder makes it perfect for a coup.

Everyone always says Balder. I’m not saying Balder couldn’t use a shake up, but this is naive. Balder has more endorsements than any other sinker and a stringent endorsement cap. You’d have to run a long-term stealth operation, be good enough at politics to get a higher endorsement cap, then get a lot of pilers to actually turn the Delegacy. The only thing really going for a coup is that lack of influence makes a coup easier to sustain once the Delegacy is actually acquired. And the fact that people don’t like Balder. But I’m not sure people dislike Balder more now than they did previously. Balder isn’t relevant enough to be hated.
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Qvait
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Postby Qvait » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:35 am

Libertanny wrote:Imho it will be The East Pacific.

No, it will be the South Pacific, thank you very much.
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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:39 am

Qvait wrote:
Libertanny wrote:Imho it will be The East Pacific.

No, it will be the South Pacific, thank you very much.

all we need is Prydania or McMasterdonia saying it's gonna be The North Pacific.
but neither will.

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Boda
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Postby Boda » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:56 am

Fauxia wrote:
North Prarie wrote:The inactivity in Balder makes it perfect for a coup.

Everyone always says Balder. I’m not saying Balder couldn’t use a shake up, but this is naive. Balder has more endorsements than any other sinker and a stringent endorsement cap. You’d have to run a long-term stealth operation, be good enough at politics to get a higher endorsement cap, then get a lot of pilers to actually turn the Delegacy. The only thing really going for a coup is that lack of influence makes a coup easier to sustain once the Delegacy is actually acquired. And the fact that people don’t like Balder. But I’m not sure people dislike Balder more now than they did previously. Balder isn’t relevant enough to be hated.

Why do people dislike balder so much? :P
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:57 pm

Xoriet wrote:
Unibot III wrote:That's the nature of imperial autocracy. The Order, as a collective, exploits a constant stream of other people's reputations, zeal, and aspirations. The NPO can't sustain its own ambition for expansionism without channeling the ambition of its recruits. It then chews these players out as collateral when the Order needs to demonstrate contrition on a semi-regular basis.

It's easy to not be in that situation if you just don't do anything objectionable. Something you've never really understood, as being at the center of controversy in one way or another was always a delight. Couping things hasn't really worked out for us in the past, has it? There's exactly one successful instance of a coup in the entire history of NPO, because the game tends to not appreciate coups very much.

And you don't have to use the words to make it clear that's what you think.

Burning through allies on repeat and having to start over from scratch into eternity isn't what I'd call beneficial. Ambition is nice and all, until it leads you into a never-ending cycle of self-destructive actions. The People's Republic of Lazarus drained internal NPO activity because a great deal of resources went into preserving the state of Lazarus. Then when an ill-advised night of drugs led to an unnecessary coup, all of that was wasted. The TNP coups accomplished nothing except a state of neutrality and even some friendliness where NPO and TNP cooperate but are unlikely to ever manage to get to a point with formalized relations on paper because of several past violations of TNP sovereignty, no matter motives or how long ago. Memories don't fade enough to make up for that kind of violation.

There is absolutely no benefit in the current game of today, where IC villains are met with OOC attacks to remove them from the game, for anyone to actually want to be the villain. NPO made a very excellent villain once, but today? There is nothing to gain from it. People who play villain are treated like the worst criminals. Between the absolute lack of benefit that goes into maintaining imperialistic ambitions and the attitude used on people who actually dare to play the game in a different manner, there is zero incentive to volunteer to be in that position yet again.

In essence, you're calling us stupid by thinking that we'd repeat things that have historically never gone well, and today get you crucified as an OOC criminal rather than just an IC villain. It would be absolutely dumb for us to return to the trends of the old NPO in today's atmosphere. The time where you could be that kind of villain is gone, and a lot of players and regions who once thrived in that atmosphere know it.



First, a word of caution: the NPO officially denies participation in some of those coups!

I’m inclined to agree that the cycle of coups d’état works against the interest of the NPO and needlessly hurts its reputation; I’ve told AMOM and Feux directly that I thought the NLO was deeply unwise on their part, stupid even.

Your list, of course, isn’t complete. At the height of the Cold War, the NPO held significant influence within TEP and TWP. They were natural allies within a Francosphere. And the NPO commanded this influence in TEP & TWP without a coup d’état...

The Rahls monopolized TEP & TWP and did so, again, without a coup d’état (until Fedele).

To that end, I think that a soft coup, not a coup d’état, is NPO’s strategy going forward. The goal isn’t to make a splash and create a crisis, the goal is the gradual restoration of a powerful sphere of influence. The latter requires a deft exercise of soft power, entryism, and cultural diffusion. The natural place to start is where the NPO was previously influential.

The key motivation is still there though. Players are still eyeing a spot in the Senate or the dim prospect of becoming Emperor — and they’re still asking themselves, “What do I have to do to prove myself?” Ambition isn’t dead. The New Pacific Order isn’t content with being a backwater junta and its members aren’t content with being peasants. At its heart, it’s a revolution and a revolution is always looking for the next convert ... the next big stage, a revolution has to keep growing to remain relevant.

Over the years, many NPOers have also justified this empire-building to themselves under the basis that it would be someone else doing it if it weren’t them.

One player’s regionalism is another player’s imperialism!
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Gorundu
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Posts: 217
Founded: May 02, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Gorundu » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:29 am

I thought it interesting so little people chose Osiris, given their not-insignificant history of coups. It seems Lazarus really got a reputation that stuck, even though they're fairly stable these days.
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Fauxia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby Fauxia » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:37 am

Gorundu wrote:I thought it interesting so little people chose Osiris, given their not-insignificant history of coups. It seems Lazarus really got a reputation that stuck, even though they're fairly stable these days.

The Second OFO seems to be a lot more stable than previous governments...
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