Is defending fascists morally ok?

[The United Provinces of Ireland]

You can't defend the far right or the far left, both are stupid and limit the rights of people.

[FNU]

As the new liberation comes closer and it is almost a guarantee that the The Union of the Axis Powers will be liberated, I am not fully ready to take a side. On one side, I worry if it ok to support a group of fascists that are against communist ideals, naming themselves after horrible people. I don't really want to support the Union, but on the other end of things, I don't like the SC being used to wage ideological warfare. The writer of the bill did not write a great bill, and is a communist(which I support more than fascists) looking to wage war on a region that has anti-communist manifestos. In other words, I don't like either option. However, I would be interested to hear the opinions of others, as the crown jewel of democracy is the opinions of the people.

You make a interesting point, is fascism moral? The answer is impossible to get, as I put it "Morals are made by the man, but society isn't." My belief is that the defending of genocidal nationalism is unreasonable and immoral. Any idea that seeks the extermination of culture will be exterminated by that culture. The Geneva convention condemns most fascist beliefs. I myself also condemn their ideology, they call it society I call it savagery. Fahrenheit 451 and even some of 1984 hinted at the problems with similar governments, they just won't hold without being opposed. They, in my opinion, are immoral. However every man has different morals.

[West Leas Oros 2]

But that said, physical violence and hating on the person instead of the idea is the wrong way to stop the spread of hateful ideologies.

It's why the war on Islamic terrorism has been a failure. If you think an ideology is your enemy, then you never defeat it and you be seeing that ideology everywhere.

Actually, the ideology IS the enemy. The problem is that we think that by attacking PEOPLE, we can somehow defeat the BELIEFS.

It's like murder. It's not enough to know that murder is wrong, we need to know WHY it's wrong. Same thing for fascism. We need to show people WHY it's wrong instead of throwing bricks at anyone that we so much as suspect is a fascist.

[Eternal Cesken]

It's why the war on Islamic terrorism has been a failure. If you think an ideology is your enemy, then you never defeat it and you be seeing that ideology everywhere.

Actually, the ideology IS the enemy. The problem is that we think that by attacking PEOPLE, we can somehow defeat the BELIEFS.

"You killed the men, not the idea"

[West Leas Oros 2]

Actually, the ideology IS the enemy. The problem is that we think that by attacking PEOPLE, we can somehow defeat the BELIEFS.

"You killed the men, not the idea"

Exactly.

[Vidor]

quite frankly, the current Liberation proposal (which is now pointless as it seems to have already been raided it already by the factions who wanted it 'liberated') reads to me as completely tone-deaf. Their only real "wrong-doing" is that they have a relationship with failed coup'ers. Which isn't even expanded on, it's just assumed everyone is in the know, could it be just embassies with a region the members of it fled to? Who knows. And that they also have an "evil" ideology and don't deny it.

I feel that the only reason it was a liberation is probably because they were too insignificant and tiny for anything else and were simply just easy pickings for raiding and just happened to have a password at the time they wrote the proposal.

[West Leas Oros 2]

quite frankly, the current Liberation proposal (which is now pointless as it seems to have already been raided it already by the factions who wanted it 'liberated') reads to me as completely tone-deaf. Their only real "wrong-doing" is that they have a relationship with failed coup'ers. Which isn't even expanded on, it's just assumed everyone is in the know, could it be just embassies with a region the members of it fled to? Who knows. And that they also have an "evil" ideology and don't deny it.

I feel that the only reason it was a liberation is probably because they were too insignificant and tiny for anything else and were simply just easy pickings for raiding and just happened to have a password at the time they wrote the proposal.

I mean, attempting to coup another region seems serious to me...

[Panslav]

Question isn't "is it moral?", it's "is it righteous?".

It isn't. Oppression of the working class is never righteous, be it from fascists or the bourgeoisie.

[Bear Stearns]

It's why the war on Islamic terrorism has been a failure. If you think an ideology is your enemy, then you never defeat it and you be seeing that ideology everywhere.

Actually, the ideology IS the enemy. The problem is that we think that by attacking PEOPLE, we can somehow defeat the BELIEFS.

Well the only to beat Islamic extremism out of the Middle East would be a decades-long campaign of nation-building, which would entail a brutal occupation and forever war. That idea hasn't seemed to work.

It's like murder. It's not enough to know that murder is wrong, we need to know WHY it's wrong. Same thing for fascism. We need to show people WHY it's wrong instead of throwing bricks at anyone that we so much as suspect is a fascist.

Because throwing bricks at people is wrong.

[Vidor]

quite frankly, the current Liberation proposal (which is now pointless as it seems to have already been raided it already by the factions who wanted it 'liberated') reads to me as completely tone-deaf. Their only real "wrong-doing" is that they have a relationship with failed coup'ers. Which isn't even expanded on, it's just assumed everyone is in the know, could it be just embassies with a region the members of it fled to? Who knows. And that they also have an "evil" ideology and don't deny it.

I feel that the only reason it was a liberation is probably because they were too insignificant and tiny for anything else and were simply just easy pickings for raiding and just happened to have a password at the time they wrote the proposal.

I mean, attempting to coup another region seems serious to me...

that's simply guilt by association, The United States did numerous coups in South America but did Iceland have a part in them because of their NATO membership?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Actually, the ideology IS the enemy. The problem is that we think that by attacking PEOPLE, we can somehow defeat the BELIEFS.

Well the only to beat Islamic extremism out of the Middle East would be a decades-long campaign of nation-building, which would entail a brutal occupation and forever war. That idea hasn't seemed to work.

It's like murder. It's not enough to know that murder is wrong, we need to know WHY it's wrong. Same thing for fascism. We need to show people WHY it's wrong instead of throwing bricks at anyone that we so much as suspect is a fascist.

Because throwing bricks at people is wrong.

But WHY is throwing bricks at people wrong?

[Francois Isidore]

Defending regions in which fascism is present, or defending the actual fascists themselves? Both are a strong no from me, but I’m curious as to what the question is specifying. Is it “morally okay”? No. But then again you don’t see it happening in the status quo anyhow. All and all, fascists (as well as regions in which fascism is present) deserve to be destroyed.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I mean, attempting to coup another region seems serious to me...

that's simply guilt by association, The United States did numerous coups in South America but did Iceland have a part in them because of their NATO membership?

Point made. As long as the region didn't participate or actively back the coup, they aren't exactly responsible.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Defending regions in which fascism is present, or defending the actual fascists themselves? Both are a strong no from me, but I’m curious as to what the question is specifying. Is it “morally okay”? No. But then again you don’t see it happening in the status quo anyhow. All and all, fascists (as well as regions in which fascism is present) deserve to be destroyed.

So you're cool with razing entire regions if they have so much as ONE possible fascist in them?

[Bear Stearns]

Well the only to beat Islamic extremism out of the Middle East would be a decades-long campaign of nation-building, which would entail a brutal occupation and forever war. That idea hasn't seemed to work.



Because throwing bricks at people is wrong.

But WHY is throwing bricks at people wrong?

it should be obvious.

Throwing bricks gets people hurt, which leads to all sorts of problems

[West Leas Oros 2]

But WHY is throwing bricks at people wrong?

it should be obvious.

Throwing bricks gets people hurt, which leads to all sorts of problems

It was a rhetorical question, hence the razz

[Eternal Cesken]

Question isn't "is it moral?", it's "is it righteous?".

It isn't. Oppression of the working class is never righteous, be it from fascists or the bourgeoisie.

Fascism is the liberation of the working class,

[West Leas Oros 2]

Question isn't "is it moral?", it's "is it righteous?".

It isn't. Oppression of the working class is never righteous, be it from fascists or the bourgeoisie.

Fascism is the liberation of the working class,

Wow. Either this is an elaborate joke, or you're dead serious and you really have zero understanding of history, politics, and class consciousness.

[MNIC]

Question isn't "is it moral?", it's "is it righteous?".

It isn't. Oppression of the working class is never righteous, be it from fascists or the bourgeoisie.

Fascism is the liberation of the working class,

I'm just honestly pretty confused

[The Church of Satan]

Would you think it is okay to harm him?

Depends on how far they take their beliefs. If they harm others in the pursuit of spreading their ideology, then it would be okay to harm them. In fact they would have earned such harm. Otherwise no.

Of course NationStates is different. Here many of us wish to wipe out fascism entirely from the site. So by being fascist, any such region is forfeit.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Would you think it is okay to harm him?

Depends on how far they take their beliefs. If they harm others in the pursuit of spreading their ideology, then it would be okay to harm them. In fact they would have earned such harm. Otherwise no.

Of course NationStates is different. Here many of us wish to wipe out fascism entirely from the site. So by being fascist, any such region is forfeit.

If you hurt other people, you shouldn't be surprised if others attempt the same.

But ridding NS of Fascism seems like a pointless pipe dream. All we are doing is forcing it underground.

[MNIC]

Would you think it is okay to harm him?

Depends on how far they take their beliefs. If they harm others in the pursuit of spreading their ideology, then it would be okay to harm them. In fact they would have earned such harm. Otherwise no.

Of course NationStates is different. Here many of us wish to wipe out fascism entirely from the site. So by being fascist, any such region is forfeit.

It's true, that many people are anti-fascist, which makes sense, and as nationstates is a realistic simulator, most nations would destroy a fascist region

[Stateless Territories]

As democratic socialist, I believe everyone has right to have their voice heard. However, as a Buddhist, I also recognize fascism as negative ideology.

[MNIC]

As democratic socialist, I believe everyone has right to have their voice heard. However, as a Buddhist, I also recognize fascism as negative ideology.

But then every certain person decides what is negative. That is the problem, as every person who wants to be good has a different opinion

[The Church of Satan]

But then every certain person decides what is negative. That is the problem, as every person who wants to be good has a different opinion

That may be, but how could fascism be morally good? How could, for the sake of the argument, The Confederation of Corrupt Dictators or Farkasfalka, be morally good? Given, you know, the recent information that's come to light about them.