The Interregional Axis: Public Gameplay Thread

[LiberNovusAmericae]

...For whoever undergoes the struggle against Judah initiates a struggle for life or death!

Jesus Christ. Even for the IRX, this is a new low. How can you tolerate antisemitic shit like this? Like... seriously. I'm at a loss for words with this one.

Because they're RL Nazis, and as a result antisemitism and the idea that Jews should die is a core component of their ideology.

[English Commonwealth of States]

[Lord Dominator]

(Image)

Consider: Your represented ideologies have killed directly or indirectly tens of millions.

Not much of a great land I'd say.

[English Commonwealth of States]

(Image)

Consider: Your represented ideologies have killed directly or indirectly tens of millions.

Not much of a great land I'd say.

Well if we're going to argue numbers...

Deaths caused by Communism:
9,000,000 Russians in the Russian civil war
20,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians starved to death in the 30s
113,500 Polish civilians and military personnel in the Polish-Soviet War
(most of) 8,800,000 German civilians and Military personnel in WW2, many german, polish, and Austrian women raped
70,000 Finnish civilians and military personnel in the Winter war
580,000 Hungarian civilians in military personnel in WW2
~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel in WW2, mostly due to supply issues, incompetent officers, and the "Not one step back" order
~19,000,000 Chinese civilians and military personnel in the Chinese civil war
20,000,000 Chinese civilians in the Cultural Revolution

Deaths caused by Democracy:
(partially) 8,800,000 german civilians and military personnel in WW2
3,100,000 Japanese civilians and military personnel in WW2
1,000,000 Philippine civilians and military personnel in the Philippine-American war
110,000 Japanese-Americans in American Interment camps
335,000 Civilians in US intervention in the middle east, military deaths are unknown
10,000,000 Indian civilians killed during the British colonization of India
182,000 Vietnamese civilians in the Vietnam war, 58,000 American soldiers
Roughly 800,000 civilians and military personnel in the US's involvement in central America (Cold War)

Deaths caused by Fascism and National Socialism:
418,000 US military personnel in WW2
450,700 British civilians and military personnel in WW2
567,000 French civilians and military personnel in WW2
(Partially) ~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel and civilians in WW2

[Morover]

Consider: Your represented ideologies have killed directly or indirectly tens of millions.

Not much of a great land I'd say.

Well if we're going to argue numbers...

Deaths caused by Communism:
9,000,000 Russians in the Russian civil war
20,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians starved to death in the 30s
113,500 Polish civilians and military personnel in the Polish-Soviet War
(most of) 8,800,000 German civilians and Military personnel in WW2, many german, polish, and Austrian women raped
70,000 Finnish civilians and military personnel in the Winter war
580,000 Hungarian civilians in military personnel in WW2
~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel in WW2, mostly due to supply issues, incompetent officers, and the "Not one step back" order
~19,000,000 Chinese civilians and military personnel in the Chinese civil war
20,000,000 Chinese civilians in the Cultural Revolution

Deaths caused by Democracy:
(partially) 8,800,000 german civilians and military personnel in WW2
3,100,000 Japanese civilians and military personnel in WW2
1,000,000 Philippine civilians and military personnel in the Philippine-American war
110,000 Japanese-Americans in American Interment camps
335,000 Civilians in US intervention in the middle east, military deaths are unknown
10,000,000 Indian civilians killed during the British colonization of India
182,000 Vietnamese civilians in the Vietnam war, 58,000 American soldiers
Roughly 800,000 civilians and military personnel in the US's involvement in central America (Cold War)

Deaths caused by Fascism and National Socialism:
418,000 US military personnel in WW2
450,700 British civilians and military personnel in WW2
567,000 French civilians and military personnel in WW2
(Partially) ~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel and civilians in WW2

So, I think that the actual statistics are irrelevant - all ideologies have had downfalls, the difference is Fascism and Nazism intentionally cause harm, more potently than the other examples you have given - but I will say that your noted exclusion of the deaths caused in Holocaust camps whilst keeping in the American Internment camps during WWII is a perfect example of the picking-and-choosing nature of the regions at play.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't respond to such a comment, and will not respond further unless specifically asked to, but the fact that a nation involved with one of the Member Regions said something as absurd as this, I feel it was necessary to point it out. While I'm not aware as to the policies of the other regions involved, I must ask if the CCD still denies the presence of OOC fascism? What about the association of regions that have the presence of OOC fascism. Given the comment by this fellow, I think you'd be hard-pressed to say otherwise.

Just food for thought.

EDIT: Also, if you want to further debate the merits of the numbers you posted in general, I'm more than happy to engage with you over in NSG on the subject.

[Novus America Imperium]

Well if we're going to argue numbers...

Deaths caused by Communism:
9,000,000 Russians in the Russian civil war
20,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians starved to death in the 30s
113,500 Polish civilians and military personnel in the Polish-Soviet War
(most of) 8,800,000 German civilians and Military personnel in WW2, many german, polish, and Austrian women raped
70,000 Finnish civilians and military personnel in the Winter war
580,000 Hungarian civilians in military personnel in WW2
~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel in WW2, mostly due to supply issues, incompetent officers, and the "Not one step back" order
~19,000,000 Chinese civilians and military personnel in the Chinese civil war
20,000,000 Chinese civilians in the Cultural Revolution

Deaths caused by Democracy:
(partially) 8,800,000 german civilians and military personnel in WW2
3,100,000 Japanese civilians and military personnel in WW2
1,000,000 Philippine civilians and military personnel in the Philippine-American war
110,000 Japanese-Americans in American Interment camps
335,000 Civilians in US intervention in the middle east, military deaths are unknown
10,000,000 Indian civilians killed during the British colonization of India
182,000 Vietnamese civilians in the Vietnam war, 58,000 American soldiers
Roughly 800,000 civilians and military personnel in the US's involvement in central America (Cold War)

Deaths caused by Fascism and National Socialism:
418,000 US military personnel in WW2
450,700 British civilians and military personnel in WW2
567,000 French civilians and military personnel in WW2
(Partially) ~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel and civilians in WW2

So, I think that the actual statistics are irrelevant - all ideologies have had downfalls, the difference is Fascism and Nazism intentionally cause harm, more potently than the other examples you have given - but I will say that your noted exclusion of the deaths caused in Holocaust camps whilst keeping in the American Internment camps during WWII is a perfect example of the picking-and-choosing nature of the regions at play.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't respond to such a comment, and will not respond further unless specifically asked to, but the fact that a nation involved with one of the Member Regions said something as absurd as this, I feel it was necessary to point it out. While I'm not aware as to the policies of the other regions involved, I must ask if the CCD still denies the presence of OOC fascism? What about the association of regions that have the presence of OOC fascism. Given the comment by this fellow, I think you'd be hard-pressed to say otherwise.

Just food for thought.

EDIT: Also, if you want to further debate the merits of the numbers you posted in general, I'm more than happy to engage with you over in NSG on the subject.

He did fail to mention the Holocaust, yes, which adds another (roughly) 320,000 to 400,000 Jews and POWS that died and disease or being worked to death in the camps.

[The Gilded Star]

I must ask if the CCD still denies the presence of OOC fascism? What about the association of regions that have the presence of OOC fascism.

They recently tried to pass a self-commendation stating something along the lines that they aggressively removed all fascists and fascist associations from CCD and are now entirely fascist-free.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... can_legion

This is one of your member regions, and it just got destroyed by a puppetsweep it looks like.

[Lord Dominator]

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_national_socialist_american_legion

This is one of your member regions, and it just got destroyed by a puppetsweep it looks like.

Which included a couple people (evidently only 1) in this thread as well.

[The Gilded Star]

Looks like he's moving puppets back in and intending to continue his behavior, I wonder if it'll get nuked a second time.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Looks like he's moving puppets back in and intending to continue his behavior, I wonder if it'll get nuked a second time.

Well if they keep posting vile factbooks on their WFE.....

[J o J]

Jesus Christ. Even for the IRX, this is a new low. How can you tolerate antisemitic shit like this? Like... seriously. I'm at a loss for words with this one.

Because they're RL Nazis, and as a result antisemitism and the idea that Jews should die is a core component of their ideology.

I’m not a Nazi, not even a fascist. The people I know that are actually fascist don’t call for the deaths of Jews either. (We aren’t talking about NAI, the “new low” in question, we’re talking about regions like Fifth Empire, Nuevo Amanecer, etc.) One bad egg doesn’t contaminate the entire lot.

And for the record, Antisemitism is rarely used in conjunction with fascism. In Europe during WWII, out of all the fascist governments, only 1 was antisemitic, and that was Nazi Germany. Italy and the Balkan Axis members only handed over their Jewish population to Germany because they had no other option; they didn’t have the means to resist the Germans.

[J o J]

Well if we're going to argue numbers...

Deaths caused by Communism:
9,000,000 Russians in the Russian civil war
20,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians starved to death in the 30s
113,500 Polish civilians and military personnel in the Polish-Soviet War
(most of) 8,800,000 German civilians and Military personnel in WW2, many german, polish, and Austrian women raped
70,000 Finnish civilians and military personnel in the Winter war
580,000 Hungarian civilians in military personnel in WW2
~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel in WW2, mostly due to supply issues, incompetent officers, and the "Not one step back" order
~19,000,000 Chinese civilians and military personnel in the Chinese civil war
20,000,000 Chinese civilians in the Cultural Revolution

Deaths caused by Democracy:
(partially) 8,800,000 german civilians and military personnel in WW2
3,100,000 Japanese civilians and military personnel in WW2
1,000,000 Philippine civilians and military personnel in the Philippine-American war
110,000 Japanese-Americans in American Interment camps
335,000 Civilians in US intervention in the middle east, military deaths are unknown
10,000,000 Indian civilians killed during the British colonization of India
182,000 Vietnamese civilians in the Vietnam war, 58,000 American soldiers
Roughly 800,000 civilians and military personnel in the US's involvement in central America (Cold War)

Deaths caused by Fascism and National Socialism:
418,000 US military personnel in WW2
450,700 British civilians and military personnel in WW2
567,000 French civilians and military personnel in WW2
(Partially) ~8,000,000 Soviet military personnel and civilians in WW2

So, I think that the actual statistics are irrelevant - all ideologies have had downfalls, the difference is Fascism and Nazism intentionally cause harm, more potently than the other examples you have given - but I will say that your noted exclusion of the deaths caused in Holocaust camps whilst keeping in the American Internment camps during WWII is a perfect example of the picking-and-choosing nature of the regions at play.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't respond to such a comment, and will not respond further unless specifically asked to, but the fact that a nation involved with one of the Member Regions said something as absurd as this, I feel it was necessary to point it out. While I'm not aware as to the policies of the other regions involved, I must ask if the CCD still denies the presence of OOC fascism? What about the association of regions that have the presence of OOC fascism. Given the comment by this fellow, I think you'd be hard-pressed to say otherwise.

Just food for thought.

EDIT: Also, if you want to further debate the merits of the numbers you posted in general, I'm more than happy to engage with you over in NSG on the subject.

Are you saying Stalinist communism and Maoist communism did NOT intend to starve millions, like in Ukraine where Stalin starved over 20 million to death? That seems quite “potent” to me.

[Lord Dominator]

Are you saying Stalinist communism and Maoist communism did NOT intend to starve millions, like in Ukraine where Stalin starved over 20 million to death? That seems quite “potent” to me.

Stalinist & Maoist Communism is indeed terrible, which doesn't make Fascism or Nazis any less terrible.

[Castelia]

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_national_socialist_american_legion

This is one of your member regions, and it just got destroyed by a puppetsweep it looks like.

Hey, once we're done with the current SC proposal, maybe we can liberate this one next. Let the IRX know we mean business and all that.

[Tinhampton]

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_national_socialist_american_legion

This is one of your member regions, and it just got destroyed by a puppetsweep it looks like.

Hey, once we're done with the current SC proposal, maybe we can liberate this one next. Let the IRX know we men business and all that.

It would be symbolic - from what I can tell, NSAL has never had a WA Delegate that could have imposed a password which a Liberation would be effective on.

[The Gilded Star]

It would be symbolic - from what I can tell, NSAL has never had a WA Delegate that could have imposed a password which a Liberation would be effective on.

Give 'em time. With the founder gone, Delegate is the only way to make changes in the region now.

Stalinist & Maoist Communism is indeed terrible, which doesn't make Fascism or Nazis any less terrible.

Can probably be commonly agreed that totalitarianism sucks no matter which form it takes. Dunno anyone trying to revive or worship Maoism or Stalinism like we see with Fascism/Naziism, but if they do pop up, they can get stomped on too.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_national_socialist_american_legion

This is one of your member regions, and it just got destroyed by a puppetsweep it looks like.

Hey, once we're done with the current SC proposal, maybe we can liberate this one next. Let the IRX know we mean business and all that.

I'd support such a symbolic liberation.

[The Chuck]

Hey, once we're done with the current SC proposal, maybe we can liberate this one next. Let the IRX know we mean business and all that.

I'd support such a symbolic liberation.

It got yoinked already

Although it was password protected and whaddayaknow?

[J o J]

Are you saying Stalinist communism and Maoist communism did NOT intend to starve millions, like in Ukraine where Stalin starved over 20 million to death? That seems quite “potent” to me.

Stalinist & Maoist Communism is indeed terrible, which doesn't make Fascism or Nazis any less terrible.

I agree Nazism is abhorrent, but there isn’t anything inherently wrong with Fascism on an ideological level. Fascism doesn’t constitute racism, class hatred, antisemitism, or anything else ANTIFA told you. They simply can’t tell the difference between ideologies. One killed 12 million in the holocaust, the other did not.

[Lord Dominator]

Stalinist & Maoist Communism is indeed terrible, which doesn't make Fascism or Nazis any less terrible.

I agree Nazism is abhorrent, but there isn’t anything inherently wrong with Fascism on an ideological level. Fascism doesn’t constitute racism, class hatred, antisemitism, or anything else ANTIFA told you. They simply can’t tell the difference between ideologies. One killed 12 million in the holocaust, the other did not.

If fascists were to stop hanging around with nazis I'd be more likely to care about that argument.

Edit: To be more specific to my point, I mean that you are technically correct that fascism itself have those things (though I'm sure others would disagree). Most of the fascists however seem to be like that or perfectly willing to team up with those kinds of people. Whether say in the literal period prior to WW2 (voluntary treaty between fascist Italy & Nazi Germany, support from both to fascist Spain), the various fascist-KKK connections irl, or the simple fact that you all here have Nazi Europa as an observing member, and at least half of the core and member regions have an embassy with the same (and/or other Nazi embassies aside).

[Sedgistan]

A reminder that this thread is in Gameplay not the General forum, thus discussion here should be gameplay-centric.

[Lord Dominator]

Noted Sedge

[Feuer Ritter II]

The drama these days is over the roof...

[J o J]

I agree Nazism is abhorrent, but there isn’t anything inherently wrong with Fascism on an ideological level. Fascism doesn’t constitute racism, class hatred, antisemitism, or anything else ANTIFA told you. They simply can’t tell the difference between ideologies. One killed 12 million in the holocaust, the other did not.

If fascists were to stop hanging around with nazis I'd be more likely to care about that argument.

Edit: To be more specific to my point, I mean that you are technically correct that fascism itself have those things (though I'm sure others would disagree). Most of the fascists however seem to be like that or perfectly willing to team up with those kinds of people. Whether say in the literal period prior to WW2 (voluntary treaty between fascist Italy & Nazi Germany, support from both to fascist Spain), the various fascist-KKK connections irl, or the simple fact that you all here have Nazi Europa as an observing member, and at least half of the core and member regions have an embassy with the same (and/or other Nazi embassies aside).

That’s because we (as in everybody that ANTIFA targets, meaning anybody who isn’t centrist or leftist) need all the help we can get. And of course, on the other hand, the communists of NS still accept people who praise Stalin’s way of communism, so I don’t think the left is any better than the right in this regard. I think both alt right and alt left are horrible, but right now, the alt left and communists are a far bigger threat.

In terms of the WWII argument, the same principles apply; they all had common enemies. That didn’t make them best friends forever; Hitler always openly voiced his views on how the Mediterranean people were a lesser race compared to Aryans. Spain never officially joined the Axis because relations weren’t good enough and Franco knew he would suffer the same fate as Germany and Italy because the Axis were too outgunned and outmanned.

One of the most effective ways to unite a cause is to show a common enemy. History shows us this several times, such as in WWII, when the USSR and the Western Allies, two very different ideological factions, worked together to take down the Axis.


Also; I’ll refrain from this type of post from now on since the moderator kindly reminded us that this is a gameplay thread, not a general discussion thread. Even though I really enjoy having civil debates with the opposing side. Civil debates are few and thin these days.