[SPLIT] Blacklist/Whitelist discussion

[Dragonisia]

Is this the NPO stance on Block as well? Either way, when this blows up in your face and it inevitably will, don't say you weren't warned.

Why are you even bringing the NPO into this? I am an external member of it in NS active on other game branches. Here I am Chief Elder of St. Abbaddon and that is where my loyalties lie. If the NPO has a stance on Block you should ask them, I am going to suspect it would be to throw the bum out though as he's too much trouble.

I brought the current peace to Abbaddon where so many others failed.

If the rest of this community elects to make it blow up in our face, perhaps, if Block does anything that merits it he'll be finding yet another home to run to. So are you going to be as bad as Block is.. or wait and see if he does something stupid that will end up shooting himself and no one else in the foot?

[WayNeacTia]

Is this the NPO stance on Block as well? Either way, when this blows up in your face and it inevitably will, don't say you weren't warned.

Why are you even bringing the NPO into this? I am an external member of it in NS active on other game branches. Here I am Chief Elder of St. Abbaddon and that is where my loyalties lie. If the NPO has a stance on Block you should ask them, I am going to suspect it would be to throw the bum out though as he's too much trouble.

I brought the current peace to Abbaddon where so many others failed.

If the rest of this community elects to make it blow up in our face, perhaps, if Block does anything that merits it he'll be finding yet another home to run to. So are you going to be as bad as Block is.. or wait and see if he does something stupid that will end up shooting himself and no one else in the foot?

I was asking a question based on your signature is all. As for the rest of my statement, I meant every word of it. I have no iron in the fire here, and if you think it is the best course to harbor Block, then that is on you. I am sure you will find the rest of the NS gameplay community won't be quite so understanding, I can assure you.

[Dragonisia]

You are manufacturing a harbor where there is none. He has been given a chance to play in a way that is not toxic. He has not broken our rules.. our laws. He has not, to my understanding, since coming to Abbaddon under this guise acted in a manner that would offend this community. When he does something worthy of expulsion, just like all of our other members, that will happen. He has not. He will be treated no differently than any other member of the community in regards to justice, rule, or law.

A safe harbor implies we are giving him shelter? We are not sheltering him. We are allowing him to function within the rules as any other entity. He is given no exception.. nor is he given any quarter.

He has also been made very aware of these facts.

[Xoriet]

Is this the NPO stance on Block as well? Either way, when this blows up in your face and it inevitably will, don't say you weren't warned.

The NPO stance on Block is that he is banned, unwelcome, and will be reported to every other relevant region if we find an alias of his.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Is this the NPO stance on Block as well? Either way, when this blows up in your face and it inevitably will, don't say you weren't warned.

The NPO stance on Block is that he is banned, unwelcome, and will be reported to every other relevant region if we find an alias of his.

It's a shame Dragonisia doesn't care enough about his community to do the same in St Abbaddon.

[Draganisia]

Ok well either way Maelstrom has been trying to end this nicely but if no one else will listen than it's time for me to end this right here and now not so nicely.

What Maelstrom has been saying is that Bishop is being given the same chances as everyone else in St Abbaddon to follow our rules. (These same rules also apply to diplomats since we don't really believe in diplomatic immunity here or on Discord)

In case you haven't noticed we don't really care about people's pasts that much.

What we do care about is whether they can be a good part of our community or not and so far he has been good with us.

If not then he would be banned just like everyone else who has failed to follow the rules so far.

If you don't think that is good enough for you than too frickin bad.

We don't follow anyone else's rules. St Abbaddon is a sovereign region and we will act like one whether you like it or not.

And any breach of that sovereignty will be dealt with harshly. That I can assure you.

[Diarcesia]

You are manufacturing a harbor where there is none. He has been given a chance to play in a way that is not toxic. He has not broken our rules.. our laws. He has not, to my understanding, since coming to Abbaddon under this guise acted in a manner that would offend this community. When he does something worthy of expulsion, just like all of our other members, that will happen. He has not. He will be treated no differently than any other member of the community in regards to justice, rule, or law.

A safe harbor implies we are giving him shelter? We are not sheltering him. We are allowing him to function within the rules as any other entity. He is given no exception.. nor is he given any quarter.

He has also been made very aware of these facts.

I think this is as close to a Whitelisting campaign as we can get, and so far, I see it as entirely the blacklisted player's responsibility - provided that them being blacklisted is justified.

One: Identify the Victims of Blacklisting. They have the right to know that they are in one and why they earned this.
Two: Allow the Victims to Speak Their Truth. Whether the others will believe or not is beyond their control, however.
Three: Mediation. Instead of presenting "evidence" citing spin doctored "examples", both sides need to express their goals and work toward them. Follow the rules in NS and offsite region places. They're there for a reason.
Four: Healing. Be excellent to one another. The path to redemption is long and narrow, and trust is very hard to regain, if not impossible. This is a consequence that must be accepted if it was justified at the time to be put in the blacklist(s). If I run out of welcome in several regions, I think I should be looking at the common factor why.
Five: Re-integration. Even DOS'ed players here can come back (unofficially) if they don't cause trouble.

[Dragonisia]

Information has been presented by various parties that is currently being reviewed. It is apparent that rules breaches for our community may have occurred.

[Elegarth]

Is this the NPO stance on Block as well? Either way, when this blows up in your face and it inevitably will, don't say you weren't warned.

Only in someone's dreams. He is unwelcomed, undesired and perma-banned from our community. We are not responsible for whatever Dragonisia wishes to do in his region, despite the information he was provided.

[Dragonisia]

The NPO stance on Block is that he is banned, unwelcome, and will be reported to every other relevant region if we find an alias of his.

It's a shame Dragonisia doesn't care enough about his community to do the same in St Abbaddon.

I wonder if lieing should be considered an offense for blacklisting. I am in the process of gathering information. If anyone knew with certainty that Brother Bishop was this entity, they should have brought it to me and I could have acted earlier. What do you do? Expect me to rush to judgement on everyone I encounter because of a claim? I need data. I am not that kind of a person, I am better than that. I will evaluate and act in fairness.

[WayNeacTia]

And any breach of that sovereignty will be dealt with harshly. That I can assure you.

Is that supposed to be a threat? Recent history shows St. Abby doesn't even possess the capability of defending itself, let alone threatening other regions, so you may want to dial it back a tad. If you don't believe for one second that Block still has friends who would take great pleasure in destroying your community and turning it into a trophy, then no one can help you. You guys are being played and, when one plays with fire they inevitably get burned every time.

[Dragonisia]

And any breach of that sovereignty will be dealt with harshly. That I can assure you.

Is that supposed to be a threat? Recent history shows St. Abby doesn't even possess the capability of defending itself, let alone threatening other regions, so you may want to dial it back a tad. If you don't believe for one second that Block still has friends who would take great pleasure in destroying your community and turning it into a trophy, then no one can help you. You guys are being played and, when one plays with fire they inevitably get burned every time.

Jesbro is over-zealous and doesn't understand his role. I hate to discipline you publicly Jesbro, but this is for me to handle. Threats will not help you make progress in this matter. We are part of a greater whole.

That said, Abbaddon threatens no one. We are handling the situation, and we are gathering information.

[WayNeacTia]

Is that supposed to be a threat? Recent history shows St. Abby doesn't even possess the capability of defending itself, let alone threatening other regions, so you may want to dial it back a tad. If you don't believe for one second that Block still has friends who would take great pleasure in destroying your community and turning it into a trophy, then no one can help you. You guys are being played and, when one plays with fire they inevitably get burned every time.

Jesbro is over-zealous and doesn't understand his role. I hate to discipline you publicly Jesbro, but this is for me to handle. Threats will not help you make progress in this matter. We are part of a greater whole.

That said, Abbaddon threatens no one. We are handling the situation, and we are gathering information.

Fair enough. My other comments stand though. Block will hand St. Abby over to a force that will destroy the region and claim it as a trophy. I am not saying this contradict you, or make you look bad. I am saying this, because IT WILL happen. If you care at all about your community, you will show him the door and before he gains sizeable enough influence to crush your community.

[Dragonisia]

I understand what you are trying to convey Wayneactia. He has no influence in Abbaddon. At least I thought he did not.. hrmm.. that really makes me wonder now about the other two who had endorsed him, but I think they were just RPers who had no idea who they were supporting.

I have enough to work on. Brother Bishop has been banned from St. Abbaddon due to the threat he poses both domestically and to the international/gameplay community.

[WayNeacTia]

I understand what you are trying to convey Wayneactia. He has no influence in Abbaddon. At least I thought he did not.. hrmm.. that really makes me wonder now about the other two who had endorsed him, but I think they were just RPers who had no idea who they were supporting.

I have enough to work on. Brother Bishop has been banned from St. Abbaddon due to the threat he poses both domestically and to the international/gameplay community.

It was probably for the best. On a better note, now you can contact Thalassia and save your embassy.

[Dragonisia]

If people have an issue with our members, they'd have better results if they simply contacted me instead of shutting down embassies. I am available. I am not inactive.

[Dragonisia]

I wanted to note that I recommended that if Block really wants to turn things around he needs to put his pride aside and ask the general community on how to even begin approaching a path forward. I am a forgiving entity, but as many have observed, he has a reputation, so a means of re-establishing trust would be required.. a mechanism to establish this entity is no longer rogue. That I leave up to the rest of you assuming those harmed by this entity even want any form of healing with it.

[WayNeacTia]

That I leave up to the rest of you assuming those harmed by this entity even want any form of healing with it.

That is unlikely. If there was an interregional blacklist, I can assure you Block would be right at the top of it.

[Draganisia]

Is that supposed to be a threat? Recent history shows St. Abby doesn't even possess the capability of defending itself, let alone threatening other regions, so you may want to dial it back a tad. If you don't believe for one second that Block still has friends who would take great pleasure in destroying your community and turning it into a trophy, then no one can help you. You guys are being played and, when one plays with fire they inevitably get burned every time.

Jesbro is over-zealous and doesn't understand his role. I hate to discipline you publicly Jesbro, but this is for me to handle. Threats will not help you make progress in this matter. We are part of a greater whole.

That said, Abbaddon threatens no one. We are handling the situation, and we are gathering information.

Yes I went a little overboard there and for that I am sorry.

We have talked it over together and I agree with Mael's stance on this issue.

I will say nothing more on the matter for now.

[Dragonisia]

That I leave up to the rest of you assuming those harmed by this entity even want any form of healing with it.

That is unlikely. If there was an interregional blacklist, I can assure you Block would be right at the top of it.

I presumed as much after I started getting information gathered. I suppose I hope to see better among humanity that time will heal and all will eventually see peace. But I recognize that factually, on exposure to reality, that is in vain.

[WayNeacTia]

That is unlikely. If there was an interregional blacklist, I can assure you Block would be right at the top of it.

I presumed as much after I started getting information gathered. I suppose I hope to see better among humanity that time will heal and all will eventually see peace. But I recognize that factually, on exposure to reality, that is in vain.

I feel exactly the same way. I always give people far too many chances. Unfortunately you are in control of a founderless region, that many, many organizations would love to take as a trophy, so you my friend must be the paragon of vigilance. Had it been most other regions, I wouldn't have even pressed the issue.

[Dragonisia]

Yes, I appreciate the spurring. I only happened to read the information in my security channel provided by Draganisia. They're my eyes and ears, they may be hasty, but they're a good MoFA. However, even as a founder-less region I will not simply take up a ban because a couple people said it should be done, I'll want information, because banning people frivolously and without cause will make us more enemies, that much faster.

In this case it was very merited. Everyone, Vermont appears a possible new home and point of operation for that entity. The Prince of that region, Ethan Allen, has a leader image using Brother Bishop's discord avatar, and is using the name of one of its discord accounts.

[WayNeacTia]

Yes, I appreciate the spurring. I only happened to read the information in my security channel provided by Draganisia. They're my eyes and ears, they may be hasty, but they're a good MoFA. However, even as a founder-less region I will not simply take up a ban because a couple people said it should be done, I'll want information, because banning people frivolously and without cause will make us more enemies, that much faster.

In this case it was very merited. Everyone, Vermont appears a possible new home and point of operation for that entity. The Prince of that region, Ethan Allen, has a leader image using Brother Bishop's discord avatar, and is using the name of one of its discord accounts.

And on top of that another brand new nation Another Shadow Cat just entered that region. Smells like a sleeper op to me.

[Block II]

I wanted to note that I recommended that if Block really wants to turn things around he needs to put his pride aside and ask the general community on how to even begin approaching a path forward. I am a forgiving entity, but as many have observed, he has a reputation, so a means of re-establishing trust would be required.. a mechanism to establish this entity is no longer rogue. That I leave up to the rest of you assuming those harmed by this entity even want any form of healing with it.

So what do I do now, to go forward in this community?

[Draganisia]

Yes, I appreciate the spurring. I only happened to read the information in my security channel provided by Draganisia. They're my eyes and ears, they may be hasty, but they're a good MoFA. However, even as a founder-less region I will not simply take up a ban because a couple people said it should be done, I'll want information, because banning people frivolously and without cause will make us more enemies, that much faster.

In this case it was very merited. Everyone, Vermont appears a possible new home and point of operation for that entity. The Prince of that region, Ethan Allen, has a leader image using Brother Bishop's discord avatar, and is using the name of one of its discord accounts.

And on top of that another brand new nation Another Shadow Cat just entered that region. Smells like a sleeper op to me.

Yes I am sorry how I was earlier.

We all have our own morals and going against someone because people say that they were bad without providing proof at the same time is usually a big No for me.

However in this case we did eventually find the truth and took the appropriate steps in the end.

I am truly sorry for how I was earlier. Just next time come with the proof right out of the gate instead of just the accusations and we will be able to handle it much better.

Because if I have learned one thing in this life it's that making accusations without proof will only make things much worse in the end.