The West Pacific Master Dispatch wrote:Let this be a warning to those who choose BoM over the rest of the world.
This isn't your everyday othering. This is advanced othering.
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by Wascoitan » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:19 pm
Valtarre wrote:Evil Mother wrote:Yeah, but have you ever considered that maybe you shouldn't be?
Of course not. After all, this operation was the exact type of retaliatory, symbolic raid that Operation Sinking Ship was. If anything, Europeia has learned from Malice and embraced our style.
Curiously, in both cases it was the Brotherhood who first attempted to reach out and avoid further hostilities. Interesting how that's been working out, as if peace between our communities was ever the desire for those involved in this raid.
by RiderSyl » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:32 pm
Wascoitan wrote:Valtarre wrote:Of course not. After all, this operation was the exact type of retaliatory, symbolic raid that Operation Sinking Ship was. If anything, Europeia has learned from Malice and embraced our style.
Curiously, in both cases it was the Brotherhood who first attempted to reach out and avoid further hostilities. Interesting how that's been working out, as if peace between our communities was ever the desire for those involved in this raid.
it's honestly pretty funny, in order to defeat BoM they resorted to the exact same tactics that they criticized BoM for using lol, gotta be some of the most blatant hypocrisy I've ever seen from the regions involved with this raid, and that's saying something cause I've seen some hypocrisy from these folk.
by Varanius » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:55 pm
Wascoitan wrote:it's honestly pretty funny, in order to defeat BoM they resorted to the exact same tactics that they criticized BoM for using lol, gotta be some of the most blatant hypocrisy I've ever seen from the regions involved with this raid, and that's saying something cause I've seen some hypocrisy from these folk.
RiderSyl wrote:They don't care if they contradict themselves. The end goal is to defeat raiders as a faction, and the means are always justified.
You give yourself too much credit. No, in order to feel threatened by you, we would have to fear you.Valtarre wrote:The West Pacific has always felt unreasonably threatened by our brotherhood,
This talking point of yours has always confused me Koth. The West Pacific has been thriving under Gio, while all you’ve done is gotten Warzone Asia raided, and your condemn repealed.The true wolves in sheep's clothing here are The West Pacific, its cowardly delegate Giovanniland,
Thanks I think?dutiful propagandists such as Varanius
Hiding? How are we “hiding” behind anything? Just by having treaties with people? Is diplomacy really such a foreign concept for you that any sign of it is considered cowardly hiding?This level of animosity might be expected from Europeia and the Land of Kings and Emperors, who do not hide behind a "defensive" pact and relationships with other raider organizations.
Really Koth? You attempt to use those discussions against us, but we went into them with genuine good intentions in the hopes of hearing out what you had to say, and all we ended up with was an earful about how much you don’t like Gio. Really, if your peace talks consist of you insulting the delegate of one of the regions you’re trying to make peace with, and telling us we should assume you’re spying on us, then you probably wouldn’t recognize peace if it told you it could get your condemn back.A region who claims to need protection from the evil Brotherhood of Malice, and entertains talks of peace while holding crossed fingers behind their back.
What? We tried to stand by Osiris until the very end. When we reached that end and Osiris point-blank told us we were being unreasonable for asking the bare minimum as an ally, we simply decided that that relationship would not work anymore. We have engaged in no antagonistic action towards the OFO since, and have no plans to do that moving forward.The Brotherhood has been nothing but lenient with TWP, avoiding hostilities with them at every corner despite their abhorrent treatment of our once-mutual allies
How did we sabotage anything? The fact that you didn’t get what you want does not mean anyone sabotaged your attempts.and their repeated taunts and sabotages of our genuine attempts at peace, both with the URA and with TWP itself.
If any actual allies of TWP have concerns with our conduct, they are more than free to reach out, and we will address them appropriately.We've stood by stoically while they jump against us on every liberation attempt, even while their own allies stand at our side.
Those peace talks didn’t work out well because, again, you repeatedly insulted our delegate, and told us we should assume you are spying on us. That is not the behavior of those seeking a peaceful resolution. That would involve genuine remorse for the continuously antagonistic behavior towards TWP and its allies.They continue this prolonged tantrum despite genuine attempts to move past every issue between our regions. Even when the peace talks did not result in a productive outcome, we still avoided stepping on their toes anyway.
It actually is a defense pact if you read the treaty. We are defending each other and each other’s allies from attacks. TWP being part of a defensive treaty, while also taking individual action against BoM, isn’t mutually exclusive.It should be plainly obvious by now that the Pax Polaris Occidens is no defense pact, it is a shield for The West Pacific to hide behind while they march ever more confidently against our brand and those who dare to even engage with it as equals.
Angeloid Astraea wrote:I can't think of anyone that creates controversy out of nothing better than you!
Excidium Planetis wrote:Yeah, if you could enlighten me as to why you're such an asshole, that would be great.
Koth wrote:Vara is such a dedicated hater, it's impressive
Mlakhavia wrote:Vara isn't a gameplay personality, he's a concentrated ball of spite
by RiderSyl » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:09 pm
Varanius wrote:who TWP has always done our best to maintain good relations with. We raided with TBH just a few majors ago, and have a treaty with LWU.
Varanius wrote:Also, TWP is arguably the most griefing friendly independent region, because a lot of the big ones don’t even tolerate any sort of regional destruction. The argument that we’re trying to destroy raiderdom is just nonsensical.
by Maadi » Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:12 pm
by Pallaith » Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 pm
Maadi wrote:It is certainly a strange and twisting path that The West Pacific's government has chosen to wander as of late. Warzone Asia was a target with few stakes, a region with a community always prepared for a raid, no matter the rationale for it, but TWP's own allies (a greater commitment on its own part than any relationship it had with the Amyralty) continue diplomacy of far greater breath and of far more import with the Brotherhood than a mere non-aggression pact. Evidently, it holds them to entirely different standards than Warzone Asia, even as it declares absolutely that diplomacy with the Overseer's Hands is tantamount to rejecting the rest of the multiverse. Are these differing standards shaped purely of perceived short-term political utility to The West Pacific? I do not know, but I hope not, for that is rarely a relationship reciprocated by many for long, and which leads only misguided hearts into Ammit's waiting jaws. I wish such a self-destructive fate not even upon Osiris's former allies.
May you one day again find the Atum's favor, West Pacificans. The journey back to Ma'at grows only more difficult for you from the vantage point of Maadi's solemn ruins.
by RiderSyl » Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:35 am
Pallaith wrote:Maadi wrote:It is certainly a strange and twisting path that The West Pacific's government has chosen to wander as of late. Warzone Asia was a target with few stakes, a region with a community always prepared for a raid, no matter the rationale for it, but TWP's own allies (a greater commitment on its own part than any relationship it had with the Amyralty) continue diplomacy of far greater breath and of far more import with the Brotherhood than a mere non-aggression pact. Evidently, it holds them to entirely different standards than Warzone Asia, even as it declares absolutely that diplomacy with the Overseer's Hands is tantamount to rejecting the rest of the multiverse. Are these differing standards shaped purely of perceived short-term political utility to The West Pacific? I do not know, but I hope not, for that is rarely a relationship reciprocated by many for long, and which leads only misguided hearts into Ammit's waiting jaws. I wish such a self-destructive fate not even upon Osiris's former allies.
May you one day again find the Atum's favor, West Pacificans. The journey back to Ma'at grows only more difficult for you from the vantage point of Maadi's solemn ruins.
You're trying too hard.
by Hulldom » Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:11 am
Maadi wrote:It is certainly a strange and twisting path that The West Pacific's government has chosen to wander as of late. Warzone Asia was a target with few stakes, a region with a community always prepared for a raid, no matter the rationale for it, but TWP's own allies (a greater commitment on its own part than any relationship it had with the Amyralty) continue diplomacy of far greater breath and of far more import with the Brotherhood than a mere non-aggression pact. Evidently, it holds them to entirely different standards than Warzone Asia, even as it declares absolutely that diplomacy with the Overseer's Hands is tantamount to rejecting the rest of the multiverse. Are these differing standards shaped purely of perceived short-term political utility to The West Pacific? I do not know, but I hope not, for that is rarely a relationship reciprocated by many for long, and which leads only misguided hearts into Ammit's waiting jaws. I wish such a self-destructive fate not even upon Osiris's former allies.
May you one day again find the Atum's favor, West Pacificans. The journey back to Ma'at grows only more difficult for you from the vantage point of Maadi's solemn ruins.
by Maadi » Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:35 am
Hulldom wrote:"Moving directly away from people who blithely antagonized them and their allies for months" is certainly "strange and twisting", yes. Nods.
by Malicious Souls » Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:37 pm
The West Pacific Master Dispatch wrote:Let this be a warning to those who choose BoM over the rest of the world. You shall be struck down like Warzone Asia was.
Quebecshire wrote:We do not view a relationship with Warzone Asia as tenable in the aftermath of their formal agreement with BoM
USS Merrimack wrote:Annoucement of the Treaty of Milan
After weeks of negotiations and discussion between Warzone Europe and Warzone Asia, we are pleased to announce the Treaty of Milan, a treaty of friendship which provides for mutual recognition, increased cultural cooperation, and the basis for World Assembly Cooperation.
We hope that, with this treaty, it will be known that Warzone Europe is open for diplomacy, and will be open to all who wish to speak to us in good faith.
We also hope that this sends a strong message to all that we are sovereign, we are here, and that the days of staying on the sideline while the world passes by are coming to a close.
by Valtarre » Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:09 pm
Varanius wrote:You give yourself too much credit. No, in order to feel threatened by you, we would have to fear you.
Varanius wrote:This talking point of yours has always confused me Koth. The West Pacific has been thriving under Gio, while all you’ve done is gotten Warzone Asia raided, and your condemn repealed.
Varanius wrote:Hiding? How are we “hiding” behind anything? Just by having treaties with people? Is diplomacy really such a foreign concept for you that any sign of it is considered cowardly hiding?
Varanius wrote:It actually is a defense pact if you read the treaty. We are defending each other and each other’s allies from attacks. TWP being part of a defensive treaty, while also taking individual action against BoM, isn’t mutually exclusive.
Varanius wrote:Really Koth? You attempt to use those discussions against us, but we went into them with genuine good intentions in the hopes of hearing out what you had to say, and all we ended up with was an earful about how much you don’t like Gio. Really, if your peace talks consist of you insulting the delegate of one of the regions you’re trying to make peace with, and telling us we should assume you’re spying on us, then you probably wouldn’t recognize peace if it told you it could get your condemn back.
Varanius wrote:How did we sabotage anything? The fact that you didn’t get what you want does not mean anyone sabotaged your attempts.
Varanius wrote:What? We tried to stand by Osiris until the very end. When we reached that end and Osiris point-blank told us we were being unreasonable for asking the bare minimum as an ally, we simply decided that that relationship would not work anymore. We have engaged in no antagonistic action towards the OFO since, and have no plans to do that moving forward.
Varanius wrote:That would involve genuine remorse for the continuously antagonistic behavior towards TWP and its allies.
Varanius wrote:While I expected some poor reactions to this, I was ultimately not expecting this load of unconvincing drivel, and attempts to drive a wedge into the PPO. Such underwhelming spin attempts are unbecoming of individuals who…wait actually. No, it’s perfectly becoming of BoM.
by Malphe II » Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:43 am
Valtarre wrote:Varanius wrote:What? We tried to stand by Osiris until the very end. When we reached that end and Osiris point-blank told us we were being unreasonable for asking the bare minimum as an ally, we simply decided that that relationship would not work anymore. We have engaged in no antagonistic action towards the OFO since, and have no plans to do that moving forward.
You don't get to pull that card when The West Pacific alone decided what "the very end" was between the two regions, and you especially don't get to pretend like strong-arming the OFO into breaking their treaty with their oldest associates was the bare minimum response to a dead-in-the-water operation in a region that had nothing to do with Osiris. Above all else, you absolutely do not get to pretend like you have not antagonized Osiris or intend to do so. Perhaps I should quote you: "Let this be a warning to those who choose BoM over the rest of the world. You shall be struck down like Warzone Asia was."
by Varanius » Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:37 pm
This is, yet again, an inaccurate depiction of the events that occurred. If you continue to insist on spinning our words to try and push your narrative, that is your choice. For those who are unaware, Koth approached Gio in May of this year, stating that if we did not begin working with BoM, they would remove URA regions from their do not raid list. Now however you may feel about whether or not this was justified, this was a threat. This is a statement which quite simply says if TWP does not do what they want, they would attack one of our treaty allies. And might I just say, Koth. You are not owed our diplomacy. The proper response when you are not given it is not to threaten us, it is to move on with life.Valtarre wrote: It is his earnestly held belief that our genuine attempt to forge a treaty with the United Regions Alliance was a form of threat against The West's allies,
I must have missed this. Were your efforts while you were insulting our delegate? Threatening to raid our treaty allies? Telling us we should assume you’re spying on us? If these are your best efforts, perhaps your orgs would be better off if you simply made no effort at all.Yet, despite my efforts, one hatchet was buried and one was not.
Yet another attempt at trying to portray the PPO as anything but an equally beneficial defensive treaty. The only thing the PPO does is protect us and our treaty allies. It’s literally what the treaty says. If you feel as though you’ve been stifled and are now unable to attack our treaty allies, then congratulations. That's the goal of a defensive treaty!Simply put: the Brotherhood could not possibly retaliate against this insult in kind without the entire weight of the PPO being activated against us, by virtue of its legal framework. TWP knows this, and their pirates along with the North Pacific Army feel entirely comfortable opposing us at every turn. They join every (failed) liberation attempt against us, knowing that Legio Pacifica -- a force that when motivated can field orders of magnitude more troops than their allied forces -- is standing by waiting for the opportunity to deliver the military version of The NPO's Retort against us if we treated you the same way you treat us. There's no shame in being open about that; it's the entire reason the pact benefits your region. The reason I say that TWP hides behind the PPO is because it continues to fight us on an uneven playing field, where you punch us but legions will pour through the door if we punch back. Some "defensive" pact.
I believe you actually; I'm convinced that Dilber did indeed come into the discussion with genuine good intentions, and the talks revealed how woefully out of the loop Giovanniland kept his own FA minister. It would be highly inaccurate to pretend like all I did in those talks was insult Gio, but his bungling of our relations was extremely relevant to the conversation and it was important for me to emphasize how much of the rift between our regions was entirely not our fault. I'm sorry, but when you don't relay critical details of your diplomacy with a group to your FA minister and then send him into peace talks with that group, you're going to look ridiculous.
Oh this is just silly. I’m sorry that you thought the suggestions I made weren’t agreeable to you, but someone interested in peace likely would’ve stated that and sought a different outcome as opposed to ghosting for a week and a half before we finally said something again. Also, TWP gets along wonderfully with most raiders. We work extensively with TBH, and have a literal treaty with LWU! Just like Syl, you fail to comprehend that raiderdom is a faction far more expansive and diverse than your little corner. Though perhaps the funniest aspect of this little section is the idea that TWP magically just fell off when Dilber stepped down. Dilber was one of the best delegates and MoFAs TWP has had in a long time, and I’m proud to have been mentored by him. We are not the same person, we don’t have the same people, and I don’t claim to be anywhere near half his legacy, but I was mentored by him.When you came into the conversation as Dilber's replacement, you began wasting my time with petty dogears that you knew we'd never be interested in, like WA agreements and the like. Frankly, looking back on our relations this year, everything started going sideways once the elder statesman had to let go of the wheel. Dilber's inexperienced successors have made great strides with defenders and have eroded relations with raiders, and there's only so much a diplomat can do when trying to negotiate with politicians who don't even want to speak our names in public.
I believe I had sufficient explanation for every issue that Dilber presented us. Practically all antagonistic behavior stemmed from an individual that was expelled from our ranks, acting on their own personal grudge. Why was it that Dilber was surprised to learn that we had tasked that individual with making things right, and had offered a personal, heartfelt apology to Giovanniland, who proceeded to act like it never happened and neglected to communicate that to his FA minister? I hope you will understand if I do not let my thoughts linger too much longer on this individual, I just think it's important to make clear that it is entirely baseless to say that there was no genuine remorse expressed, or attempts to mend the divide.
Angeloid Astraea wrote:I can't think of anyone that creates controversy out of nothing better than you!
Excidium Planetis wrote:Yeah, if you could enlighten me as to why you're such an asshole, that would be great.
Koth wrote:Vara is such a dedicated hater, it's impressive
Mlakhavia wrote:Vara isn't a gameplay personality, he's a concentrated ball of spite
by Malicious Souls » Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:20 pm
Varanius wrote:Afternoon Souls (I say the day after )! I won’t be addressing the first part of your post, because getting into an argument regarding the specific verbiage used in an op report is silly. And I’m not sure about you, but I have better things to be doing with my time.
I will however be responding to the second half of your post, because it’s a point that’s been brought up numerous times, and it’s worth addressing.
Any respectable region is more than welcome to address their concerns regarding the operation report (if they have any at all). Frankly, all of TWP’s allies and military partners are strong, independent regions Souls. They can speak for themselves. If anyone worth a damn has any concerns regarding our wording, they are free to contact us. I am positive that none of the regions whose relationships you are trying to weaponize have any need for you forum agendaposting. You’re not convincing anyone with this, you just lost. Plain and simple.
by Venico » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:01 pm
Varanius wrote:. For those who are unaware, Koth approached Gio in May of this year, stating that if we did not begin working with BoM, they would remove URA regions from their do not raid list. Now however you may feel about whether or not this was justified, this was a threat. This is a statement which quite simply says if TWP does not do what they want, they would attack one of our treaty allies. And might I just say, Koth. You are not owed our diplomacy.
by Malicious Souls » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:59 pm
Venico wrote:So we told our folks, "Hey cease fire on any URA regions while we try to work with TWP." After awhile when diplomatic talks go nowhere
by Hulldom » Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:19 pm
Malicious Souls wrote:Venico wrote:So we told our folks, "Hey cease fire on any URA regions while we try to work with TWP." After awhile when diplomatic talks go nowhere
Tangentially, maybe TWP and a certain friend of theirs would like to chime in about why the parallel attempt to open relations directly between BoM and URA itself went nowhere. Yknow, since they're already publicly embracing the strategy of diplomacy by threat these days.
by Lycos » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:37 pm
Malicious Souls wrote:Tangentially, maybe TWP and a certain friend of theirs would like to chime in about why the parallel attempt to open relations directly between BoM and URA itself went nowhere. Yknow, since they're already publicly embracing the strategy of diplomacy by threat these days.
Holocovoy wrote:
We do not have Larry. Larry has us ):
by Venico » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:54 pm
Lycos wrote:Malicious Souls wrote:Tangentially, maybe TWP and a certain friend of theirs would like to chime in about why the parallel attempt to open relations directly between BoM and URA itself went nowhere. Yknow, since they're already publicly embracing the strategy of diplomacy by threat these days.
By this "attempt" are you referring to the time where BoM raided a URA member, pretended it was an accident, and tried to negotiate a NAP in the aftermath, or something else entirely?
by The West Pacific Master Dispatch » Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:19 pm
by Reventus Koth » Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:56 pm
Xanthal wrote:Only raiders can win in this war- a defender can keep them from winning one region, one update at a time, but there will always be the next region, the next update, and the next, forever.
by Zeorus » Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:15 pm
Reventus Koth wrote:Oh shit, you accidentally activated one of my many tertiary nerd interests, phonology!
Many linguists hate the English letter "C", and a great number have tried and failed to campaign against its inclusion in the alphabet. The inherent problem with simply erasing C is in figuring out how exactly to replace it, of course. The problem becomes very obvious while reading this issue, right out of the gate even! For example, "March" is replaced with "Martsh", and I think it's fairly obvious that "tsh" is not an exact 1:1 replacement, it's a different phoneme entirely. This continues with words throughout the issue like "speetsh", "tshanges", etc.
The "ch" letter combo in English does a lot of phonetic heavily lifting, covering a wide selection of affricates that actually have entirely different letters in other languages! I became keenly aware of this while studying Croatian, which has the letters c, ć, and č. I'm not exactly a linguist, just someone with a passing interest in this sort of thing, but I at least wanted to throw that out there in case anyone else thought the same thing I did while reading this issue
by Fujai » Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:00 pm
Reventus Koth wrote:The "ch" letter combo in English does a lot of phonetic heavily lifting, covering a wide selection of affricates that actually have entirely different letters in other languages! I became keenly aware of this while studying Croatian, which has the letters c, ć, and č. I'm not exactly a linguist, just someone with a passing interest in this sort of thing, but I at least wanted to throw that out there in case anyone else thought the same thing I did while reading this issue
by The North Polish Union » Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:23 pm
Fujai wrote:Reventus Koth wrote:The "ch" letter combo in English does a lot of phonetic heavily lifting, covering a wide selection of affricates that actually have entirely different letters in other languages! I became keenly aware of this while studying Croatian, which has the letters c, ć, and č. I'm not exactly a linguist, just someone with a passing interest in this sort of thing, but I at least wanted to throw that out there in case anyone else thought the same thing I did while reading this issue
Insidentally, Zoran and I diskussed this subjekt in our spesial In The Mines episode! We toutshed on Norwegian using "tj" and "kj" for similar sounds, as well as Serbo-Kroatian and their diakritiks, as Teralyon is a native speaker! It's not at all a perfekt system, of kourse, but it's meant to be fun, not perfekt
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:keep your wet opinions to yourself. Byzantium and Ottoman will not come again. Whoever thinks of this wet dream will feel the power of the Republic's secular army.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.
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