Is Nationstates Dying?

[Armaros]

I see discord mentioned a lot here, so here are a few thoughts:

The problem with discord, in my opinion, is that people have started to use it to replace forums. While discord is an easy way to communicate, this is just wrong: discord is, by design, a place to chat. Forums, on the other hand, are designed for arguements regarding, for example, regional affairs. Discord is just faster: people are online more, and will immediatley respond to an arguement. This makes conversations go faster, and, as a result, arguements go faster and become more heated. On a forum, I personally get more of a relaxed feeling: take your time to write up your thoughts and arguements, and read everything so far said in the thread. It’s also less weird to write up a large body of text to fully detail your ideas on forums; on discord, it will not only look weird but also might just get lost in the ever so fast conversations. A thread is simply easier to read arguements in then on discord.

While I don’t believe discord is a problem in and of itself (it does have benefits), I do believe it should never be used as a “forum” of sorts.

[Xoriet]

While I don’t believe discord is a problem in and of itself (it does have benefits), I do believe it should never be used as a “forum” of sorts.

I will never use Discord as a forum. It has zero security features. IP bans for Discord bans accomplish next to nothing. New accounts are made and you can't check anything and have to rely on fluctuating factors that are not solid enough for most people as evidence unless there is a direct admission of such from the individual in question. Forums aren't a guarantee either, but they're sure easier to monitor than Discord.

[New Rogernomics]

While I don’t believe discord is a problem in and of itself (it does have benefits), I do believe it should never be used as a “forum” of sorts.

I will never use Discord as a forum. It has zero security features. IP bans for Discord bans accomplish next to nothing. New accounts are made and you can't check anything and have to rely on fluctuating factors that are not solid enough for most people as evidence unless there is a direct admission of such from the individual in question. Forums aren't a guarantee either, but they're sure easier to monitor than Discord.

Forums allow regions to monitor posts and citizenship apps. Those multiing can be identified, and called out should they try anything - like create multiple accounts and use them to vote or hold multiple govt positions. Even if you just use it for that, it makes running a community so much easier.

[Americastrailia]

I am loathe to lecture experienced players on what gameplay needs, but I have to say that as the years go by, the less convinced I am that more conflict!! is the solution to NS' woes. Particularly, I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between interregional and intraregional conflict. While the former has some role to play (particularly through military gameplay), I've found the latter completely not conducive to the good running of a region.

A region is at its most active when its members are willing to put in the hard yards towards a shared objective. Culture is not some airy fairy excuse for people to stick in their manifestoes once in a while - in a great sense, it's what makes a region. Its culture can include its military stance.

I think that principle extends further than you realize. Conflict within a region causes major problems and drives players away. Conversely, I think you will find that conflict between regions invites activity. The "us versus them" mentality of a war between regions fosters unity within each region as players put aside minor differences in pursuit of wartime goals. This is where gameplay happens. The problem is things have become far too stable game-wide for opposing groups to make meaningful progress against each other, so gameplay doesn't happen.

---

I can only speak to my own experience, but when I joined the game I found GCRs far too big, and wanted a small region that wasn't just a smaller clone of bigger UCRs, to make a difference in and be a part of. I found that, and I hope new players still can find that.

It's pretty difficult nowadays to find a small region that is worthwhile. There are just so many failing, inactive, husks of regions out there, and no way to get a quick pulse on which few of them are worth your time - doing so at all is especially difficult for new players. This is where I feel like you are on the right track with changing the telegram system back to manual: reducing the number of options available to new players means good regions can actually rise to the top, because they will put in the required effort to grow.

But longer term, you'll still need generic/dry regions that are always stable and just grow. We already have an overabundance of those in the game. Though what it needs now is regions that stand out, and more ways to engage players in the game - and factions will be useful in that regard when it is implemented.

As of now, feeders and sinkers fill the "generic and stable" niche pretty well. So do a few UCRs. I completely agree something needs to be done about it, but I really don't think factions will fit the bill, ultimately. I like factions, but in my mind it doesn't seem like a concrete enough change to matter. I could be wrong, though.

[Adam Monroe]

Making the regional founder's powers expire after 6 months would make the game a lot more fun in terms of R/D. All current established UCRs would be up for grabs essentially in terms of power. Regional influence would need to be amended as well. Making regions something people have to actually protect would make R/D a lot more fun and would also make the WA (and the fact players can only have one WA) actually consequential.

It would also drive away a number of the the players who are involved in regional communities but aren't interested in R&D, who wouldn't like the fact that if their Founder CTEs -- which is something over which most of them have no control -- they would have to choose between vulnerability to raiding, locking-down with their regions with passwords (and thus potentially dooming them to death by slow attrition) or simply leaving those communities -- in which they might have a lot of time & effort invested -- for more secure ones.
Raiders in the past have tended to answer the aggrieved question "Why can't you just fight each other, and leave the rest of us alone" with ""that wouldn't be any fun"... so, if that's really how you lot think, if you chase too many of the non-R&D players out of NS you doom not just their parts of the game but your own parts as well.

While I understand and appreciate this way of thinking, that those not concerned with R/D would be brought into it unwillingly, the game is also about relationships between nations, and further relationships between regions. This game is also about working together in a community whether it be to achieve something RP related, R/D, WA-related, etc -- wouldn't the actual features of the game (and what draws people to NS) be accentuated by coalition building and the necessity to hold your community together (once the founder powers were lost)?

Making region strength predicated off of WA allegiance (and WA-access) would only grow strong communities. We would quickly be looking at depth over breadth. There are 9 GCRs that are huge and would be strengthened even further, and there are what, 125 regions with over 100 members and 600 more with over 20 members. Taking founder powers away wouldn't destroy "communities" it would actually create new, stronger ones where like-minded people could work together to be "safe" from R/D.

[United Kingdom of Scandanavia]

It has recently come to me recently after a region change, that both regions were greater in the past than they are now (by greater I mean bigger populous)

After a Google Trends search, which is an online website that determines popularity of a website since it’s release, and discovered this chart: https://imgur.com/a/IG7pxyU

Which leaves the question: Is Nationstates Dying?

Many years ago I used to play games like this only using real world countries (or at least the real world map) does anyone know of any games like this that are active that i could join?

[Bears Armed]

It would also drive away a number of the the players who are involved in regional communities but aren't interested in R&D, who wouldn't like the fact that if their Founder CTEs -- which is something over which most of them have no control -- they would have to choose between vulnerability to raiding, locking-down with their regions with passwords (and thus potentially dooming them to death by slow attrition) or simply leaving those communities -- in which they might have a lot of time & effort invested -- for more secure ones.
Raiders in the past have tended to answer the aggrieved question "Why can't you just fight each other, and leave the rest of us alone" with ""that wouldn't be any fun"... so, if that's really how you lot think, if you chase too many of the non-R&D players out of NS you doom not just their parts of the game but your own parts as well.

While I understand and appreciate this way of thinking, that those not concerned with R/D would be brought into it unwillingly, the game is also about relationships between nations, and further relationships between regions. This game is also about working together in a community whether it be to achieve something RP related, R/D, WA-related, etc -- wouldn't the actual features of the game (and what draws people to NS) be accentuated by coalition building and the necessity to hold your community together (once the founder powers were lost)?

No, it would not.
As we do not have unlimited time available for playing NS, many of us would -- as I said -- have to choose between spending that time on 'anti-raiding' activities that do not attract us or seeing the regions in whose development we have time invested thrown [potentially] to the wolves. Being faced with such a choice would not "accentuate" my experience of NS, and I suspect strongly that there are many other players who feel the same about this.
Analogy: What proportion of the R/D-focused players do you think would consider their experience of NS "accentuated" if some change to the rules meant that in order to continue with WA membership -- which would, of course, still be necessary for much activity in R/D -- they also had to participate actively in the GA, not just by voting in their existing blocs but also by reading all of the drafting/debate threads regularly and by commenting constructively there at least sometimes?
How many of the R/D players do you think would consider their time in NS "accentuated" if the only nations that could become regional delegates were ones that had either drafted at least one passed GA resolution or drafted at least one issue? After all, those are "actual features of the game", too...

[Gopnikea]

I do not think that it is dying. NationStates still has a lot of players so I wouldn't call it 'dying'.

[Custadia]

No, it would not.
As we do not have unlimited time available for playing NS, many of us would -- as I said -- have to choose between spending that time on 'anti-raiding' activities that do not attract us or seeing the regions in whose development we have time invested thrown [potentially] to the wolves. Being faced with such a choice would not "accentuate" my experience of NS, and I suspect strongly that there are many other players who feel the same about this.
Analogy: What proportion of the R/D-focused players do you think would consider their experience of NS "accentuated" if some change to the rules meant that in order to continue with WA membership -- which would, of course, still be necessary for much activity in R/D -- they also had to participate actively in the GA, not just by voting in their existing blocs but also by reading all of the drafting/debate threads regularly and by commenting constructively there at least sometimes?
How many of the R/D players do you think would consider their time in NS "accentuated" if the only nations that could become regional delegates were ones that had either drafted at least one passed GA resolution or drafted at least one issue? After all, those are "actual features of the game", too...

A game survives on what makes it unique. Roleplay-even facilitated roleplay like the GA-comes a dime a dozen on the internet. NSs' gameplay is unique.

[Marxist Germany]

NS is not dying. NS is having a recession, one I hope will be short. The problem as many people have said is that there are just too many regions that are not active. Regions that have 1 or 2 people and never get more than 1 RMB message a week. This can cause people to be bored with the game and quit. Despite me being in a 400+ player region, I almost left NS because I started getting bored of issue answering only, luckily for me, season 1 of cards was released as soon as I started losing interest in the game, so that kept me going on until February this year when I was introduced full-time to the WA (I had previously attempted writing proposals but not for a long time each), ironically, due to a proposal that I very much hated. This got me into the forums and I discovered a whole new aspect to NS. Later on in the year as my old region started dying I moved into a large UCR and now I have more things to do than I can handle! (hyperbole).

[StupidsRUs]

*cue the sad orchestral music*
*man dressed in black walks up to a crowd*
Today,
we are here to mourn the passing of one of our greatest friends and comrades.
NationStates died surrounded by their closest friends and family on ____ __________, ______. NationStates-

*dude in sunglasses charges up*
Okay, peeps, it's time to RAP!
An America State of Mind (The Banana Hip Hop)
By DeeAyEssSeaOhOhPee
Yeah, yeah
Ayo, all those couples out there, it's time.
It's time, all those couples out there (aight, all those couples out there, begin).
Straight out the ugly dungeons of rap.

The tail drops deep as does my pineapple.
I never love, 'cause to love is the therapist of rappel.
Beyond the walls of sausages, life is defined.
I think of happiness when I'm in an America state of mind.

Hope the dapple got some snapple.
My chapel don't like no dirty rappel.
Run up to the grapple and get the apple.

In an America state of mind.
What more could you ask for? The wild tail?
You complain about volume.
I gotta love it though - somebody still speaks for the scale.

I'm rappin' to the banana,
And I'm gonna move your americana.

Hideous, big, crazy, like a drum
Boy, I tell you, I thought you were a sum.

I can't take the volume, can't take the towel.
I woulda tried to leap I guess I got no scowl.

I'm rappin' to the americana,
And I'm gonna move your banana.

Yea, yaz, in an America state of mind.

When I was young my therapist had a hail.
I waz kicked out without no rail.
I never thought I'd see that trail.
Ain't a soul alive that could take my therapist's pale.

An ample rock is quite the block.

Thinking of happiness. Yaz, thinking of happiness (happiness).

[Kurnugia]

NS isn't dying, it's evolving. The communities that are strong are flourishing while the weak ones are slowly withering away.

The thing you have to understand about NS is that it's more anon social media than an actual Nat Sim. The sooner you get it, the better time you'll have.

[Lamebrainia]

My main problem with NS is that there just aren't enough issues per day. When I came back after 10 years of inactivity I thought that amount had changed to something like one issue every hour or two. Turns out that was only temporary for a day or so, which is unfortunate because if it was at least 12 issues a day rather than 4, then I would be inclined to play a lot more. There is a lot that I want to change in my nation from past choices but its just way too slow for issues to make much of a difference. Now with the amount of issues being over 1200, its hard to roll one that does make a significant change that I want. If people here feel that is too many per day, then surely the option to throttle it would be there like it is now?

I have to agree with that, and your post actually kind of hints at the problem behind the "popularity" of the game. The kids these days are freaking illiterate, so a text-based game is not going to interest them much.
Speech policing certainly doesn't help either (I got a warning for saying transgenderism was a mental illness). I don't even really want to visit the forum after that, because I remember the Internet as a free platform for sharing whatever, and now there's a truckload of rules that one needs to follow not to offend people. It's disgusting.
The younger generations will not like the communication system (telegrams and forum posts), as it is not as "quick and efficient" as the platforms they are used to.
The game's politics on puppets are hurting the gameplay too. Major events where nations can "compete" against each other (Z-Day and N-Day, for example) are basically just puppet shows. Whoever has the most nations (and the strongest will to live after playing the clicking game for each) reigns supreme.
Other than that, I think the game has improved greatly since when my nation was founded.

[Marxist Germany]

My main problem with NS is that there just aren't enough issues per day. When I came back after 10 years of inactivity I thought that amount had changed to something like one issue every hour or two. Turns out that was only temporary for a day or so, which is unfortunate because if it was at least 12 issues a day rather than 4, then I would be inclined to play a lot more. There is a lot that I want to change in my nation from past choices but its just way too slow for issues to make much of a difference. Now with the amount of issues being over 1200, its hard to roll one that does make a significant change that I want. If people here feel that is too many per day, then surely the option to throttle it would be there like it is now?

I have to agree with that, and your post actually kind of hints at the problem behind the "popularity" of the game. The kids these days are freaking illiterate, so a text-based game is not going to interest them much.
Speech policing certainly doesn't help either (I got a warning for saying transgenderism was a mental illness). I don't even really want to visit the forum after that, because I remember the Internet as a free platform for sharing whatever, and now there's a truckload of rules that one needs to follow not to offend people. It's disgusting.
The younger generations will not like the communication system (telegrams and forum posts), as it is not as "quick and efficient" as the platforms they are used to.
The game's politics on puppets are hurting the gameplay too. Major events where nations can "compete" against each other (Z-Day and N-Day, for example) are basically just puppet shows. Whoever has the most nations (and the strongest will to live after playing the clicking game for each) reigns supreme.
Other than that, I think the game has improved greatly since when my nation was founded.

Correct, as a person born after* this game was created, people my age find it bizarre that I play this game.
*this game is really old

[Azadliq]

I have to agree with that, and your post actually kind of hints at the problem behind the "popularity" of the game. The kids these days are freaking illiterate, so a text-based game is not going to interest them much.
Speech policing certainly doesn't help either (I got a warning for saying transgenderism was a mental illness). I don't even really want to visit the forum after that, because I remember the Internet as a free platform for sharing whatever, and now there's a truckload of rules that one needs to follow not to offend people. It's disgusting.
The younger generations will not like the communication system (telegrams and forum posts), as it is not as "quick and efficient" as the platforms they are used to.
The game's politics on puppets are hurting the gameplay too. Major events where nations can "compete" against each other (Z-Day and N-Day, for example) are basically just puppet shows. Whoever has the most nations (and the strongest will to live after playing the clicking game for each) reigns supreme.
Other than that, I think the game has improved greatly since when my nation was founded.

Correct, as a person born after* this game was created, people my age find it bizarre that I play this game.
*this game is really old

As a person born before this game was created, people my age still find it bizarre that I play. Most of them are like "Why would you stay up until midnight playing a video game? What are you, a teenager?" And I just have to explain to them-- in a way that they inevitably dismiss-- that I enjoy the game and that they should try it out too.

Something that might help the player base grow is advertising. Not even a lot, just the occasional ad here or there. I don't think I've ever seen an ad for NationStates-- I found this game after a random Google search. If I had seen an ad for it, I might've joined the community sooner. Idk, it's just an idea.

[Lord Dominator]

Occasional ads of a sort have occurred, done by players on others sites in a non-advertising manner.

[Azadliq]

That's true. And I know the subreddit has seen some activity recently

[Aglrinia]

That's true. And I know the subreddit has seen some activity recently

The subreddit is mostly just join my region posts, or questions that could be answered in the technical forum. While of the most active threads in the nationstates subreddit was debating the very topic of this thread.

[Vetelo]

NationStates is fucking trash. Everyone who still participates in this garbage should quit and save themselves from this ultimately pointless endeavour. You will gain nothing as a result of time spent here. It is better spent doing literally anything else.

[Reploid Productions]

NationStates is fucking trash. Everyone who still participates in this garbage should quit and save themselves from this ultimately pointless endeavour. You will gain nothing as a result of time spent here. It is better spent doing literally anything else.

I guess that final message in October wasn't so final after all. BRB, putting on Hotel California.

[Jocospor]

OOC: I wouldn't say dying. This definitely feels like a low point, relative to my experience with the site, which began in 2015. What I would say, though, is that NationStates is becoming less tolerant, and this in turn doesn't bode well for the game's future. The issues surrounding IC/OOC misinterpretations are just one of several problems.

NationStates is fucking trash. Everyone who still participates in this garbage should quit and save themselves from this ultimately pointless endeavour. You will gain nothing as a result of time spent here. It is better spent doing literally anything else.

Wrong. I genuinely believe that NationStates is a space where leadership and communicative skills can be learned. As a Founder, I've found that managing a region - both its government and its people - has been a very rewarding experience. You learn what to take into real life and, well, what to leave behind...!

[Destructive Government Economic System]

NationStates is fucking trash. Everyone who still participates in this garbage should quit and save themselves from this ultimately pointless endeavour.

How long did you spend at the Morton salt factory?

[Federal Spanish States]

I see discord mentioned a lot here, so here are a few thoughts:

The problem with discord, in my opinion, is that people have started to use it to replace forums. While discord is an easy way to communicate, this is just wrong: discord is, by design, a place to chat. Forums, on the other hand, are designed for arguements regarding, for example, regional affairs. Discord is just faster: people are online more, and will immediatley respond to an arguement. This makes conversations go faster, and, as a result, arguements go faster and become more heated. On a forum, I personally get more of a relaxed feeling: take your time to write up your thoughts and arguements, and read everything so far said in the thread. It’s also less weird to write up a large body of text to fully detail your ideas on forums; on discord, it will not only look weird but also might just get lost in the ever so fast conversations. A thread is simply easier to read arguements in then on discord.

While I don’t believe discord is a problem in and of itself (it does have benefits), I do believe it should never be used as a “forum” of sorts.

I think you've forgotten about the existence of "slowmode" in discord, which could alleviate the problem you're talking about here.

[Valentine Z]

NationStates is fucking trash. Everyone who still participates in this garbage should quit and save themselves from this ultimately pointless endeavour. You will gain nothing as a result of time spent here. It is better spent doing literally anything else.

The improvements on my programming skills as a result of doing some of the stuff here (and here) begs to differ.

Not to mention the Photoshop / Illustrator / Art skills, as well as writing, being up-to-date with world events, etc, etc... Maybe you spent too much time in NSGP, which I have nothing against, but you oughta find something worthwhile to do here if raiding and defending is making you saltier than the Dead Seas.

I think you've forgotten about the existence of "slowmode" in discord, which could alleviate the problem you're talking about here.

I would have turned it up to more than 6 hours if I can.

[Warzone Codger]

I see discord mentioned a lot here, so here are a few thoughts:

The problem with discord, in my opinion, is that people have started to use it to replace forums. While discord is an easy way to communicate, this is just wrong: discord is, by design, a place to chat. Forums, on the other hand, are designed for arguements regarding, for example, regional affairs. Discord is just faster: people are online more, and will immediatley respond to an arguement. This makes conversations go faster, and, as a result, arguements go faster and become more heated. On a forum, I personally get more of a relaxed feeling: take your time to write up your thoughts and arguements, and read everything so far said in the thread. It’s also less weird to write up a large body of text to fully detail your ideas on forums; on discord, it will not only look weird but also might just get lost in the ever so fast conversations. A thread is simply easier to read arguements in then on discord.

While I don’t believe discord is a problem in and of itself (it does have benefits), I do believe it should never be used as a “forum” of sorts.

I essentially agree. Forums are also more accessible and provides greater opportunities for others (including new entrants) to participate in a topic. After their own region (and rmb vs forums vs discord within a region), these forums are what people see and form their initial mpressions on.

There are countless times where I see an interesting subject already discussed and done on discord while I was asleep, which wouldn't be the case if it was on the forums.