NationStates

I want to know what the Predator script is. I know two regions that got removed because of creating chaos using it.

Borovan entered the region as he wrote:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=373231

I could have sworn that there was also a gameplay thread about it, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Oh well. All I really remember about it is that the thread was not initially about the Predatory Controversy.

Fascist Rep of Singapore wrote:I want to know what the Predator script is. I know two regions that got removed because of creating chaos using it.

I'm not familiar with the mechanics of how it worked, but Predator was an update tool created by General Halcones that was used primarily by The Black Riders and later DEN to identify the update times for target regions. It allowed for extremely accurate single hit invasions, and gave the regions who used a significant advantage in tag raiding operations. This is, however, because it broke site rules (I think it collected data more frequently than is allowed, or something like that, but I could be wrong; scripts and the rules surrounding them were never my forte). Anyways, the nefarious nature of the tool was eventually discovered and moderation came down hard but fair on those who used it. People who used it were temporarily banned from the site, those who knew it was illegal the entire time were permanently banned, and TBR and DEN (along with all their holdings and puppet regions) were wiped out.

Anyways, that's the tl;dr of it, but if you're interested in more details the thread Borovan... linked to will have most of the information.

Edit: I found the Gameplay thread: viewtopic.php?p=27813810#p27813810

Ima nit pick slightly

Eumaeus wrote:I'm not familiar with the mechanics of how it worked, but Predator was an update tool created by General Halcones

Predator did basically everything for a trigger, giving options of the next available targets, generating a list of you hits and misses, gave timer to jump, etc. etc. Using it could let a noob trigger in theory. Broke site rules because it made calls (designed to do so) far beyond the permitted limit.

It allowed for extremely accurate single hit invasions, and gave the regions who used a significant advantage in tag raiding operations.

Fun fact: every record made using predator has been broken legally, and while there is nothing quite like it, people have proven you could make a script that has the same functions and is still legal. The difference in accuracy from being legal is negligible. Cheating gives you no real advantage, and puts you at risk to get banned from the site.

People who used it were temporarily banned from the site, those who knew it was illegal the entire time were permanently banned

No temp bans from site, temporary wa ban and not allowed to participate in raids onsite, so no holding officer spots outsite home region. Could still trigger funny enough.

and TBR and DEN (along with all their holdings and puppet regions) were wiped out.

The region of TBR did get deleted, it had collapsed before this, during a different illegal script problem (which is why the mods deleted entire regions for this one). The other region cleared was Cimmeria

The Predator script was actually a program, designed by Halcones and Frak, to raid regions with near-impossible efficiency by intentionally breaking the site's rules. It started being used in late 2014 by The Black Riders, when Halcones returned from a years-long absence to take charge of the organization's raids. In early 2015, Halcones and another member of The Black Riders were found to be very badly breaking recruitment rules using different program, and both Halcones and the other member were declared Delete-on-Sight, being banned from the site permanently. Frak had also been banned permanently from the site for different reasons by that time, so both creators of Predator.exe were banned from the site at that point.

The Black Riders collapsed rather spectacularly, since Halcones was the founder and his nation was deleted. The raiders that were left homeless moved to the region DEN. Predator.exe continued to be used in DEN, until late 2015, when a former member of DEN named Feuer Ritter began to spread rumors of illegal script usage. Feuer Ritter, rightfully, had no credibility amongst other users on the site, so no-one was believing him. The rumors were later confirmed though when RiderSyl (me) defected from DEN to The East Pacific, and provided Eluvatar, Tim, and Chester Pearson in the defender IRC channel #jump with Dropbox files of Predator.exe. Elu, a member of NS technical staff at the time, broke down the program and began to discover its malicious intent. From there began an investigation into Predator.exe and DEN. Many raiders worked with the moderators, but multiple raiders either refused to work with the mods or openly admitted to helping provide the banned creators of the app with feedback.

The response from NS staff, in the end, were sweeping WA bans, nation deletions, player permabans, and region deletions. The dead TBR region, a then-extremely large DEN region, a semi-active Cimmeria region, and a few regions named similarly to DEN were wiped from the site and cannot be remade.

The reputation of raiders took an enormous hit during this, and serious discussions were had amongst the mod team about banning raiding. The practice wasn't banned, ultimately, and The Black Hawks began attempting to purge the raiding community of those that thought like the banned users did. They ultimately succeeded, thanks in no small part to the raiders they wanted gone shooting themselves in the feet repeatedly along the way, and folks like The Invaders are heavily blacklisted as a result. The Black Hawks also set out to break every record that Predator.exe had set, and break those records without the use of any scripts or programs, in order to show that raiding could be done at that high level without needing to cheat. This was successful as well.

Defenders, after the reveal of Predator.exe, also took a huge morale hit. The prevailing reaction was "I've been playing this whole time against cheaters?! What was the point then?". Some defenders were enraged enough to be spurred back into action against raiders, such as Benevolent Thomas, who founded The Grey Wardens shortly after.

In the end, Predator.exe killed off half of raiding, sent a lot of defenders into permanent retirement, inspired the remaining raiders to fight an ideological war amongst themselves and remaining defenders to fight raiders harder than before, then when all the remaining raiders and defenders were done with that, left NS Gameplay in the state it's in now.

Raionitu wrote:Fun fact: every record made using predator has been broken legally, and while there is nothing quite like it, people have proven you could make a script that has the same functions and is still legal. The difference in accuracy from being legal is negligible. Cheating gives you no real advantage, and puts you at risk to get banned from the site.

Not just the same functions, Babyface's is far superior both accuracy/functions and legal.

NOrTh pAcIfiC spY wrote:

Raionitu wrote:Fun fact: every record made using predator has been broken legally, and while there is nothing quite like it, people have proven you could make a script that has the same functions and is still legal. The difference in accuracy from being legal is negligible. Cheating gives you no real advantage, and puts you at risk to get banned from the site.

Not just the same functions, Babyface's is far superior both accuracy/functions and legal.

Not clue what that is. I know there are some that do a lot, I just didn’t know of any that did everything.

See also: https://nsindex.net/wiki/Predator_script_controversy

The Predator script controversy led to an unprecedented move by the moderator team, to return a large number of regions to their original owners. 2016 was also a tough year for NationStates, with the US Presidential elections causing unprecedented levels of toxicity in NSG, and the uncovering of erotic and obscene roleplay hiding behind the telegram system.

Raionitu wrote:

NOrTh pAcIfiC spY wrote:Not just the same functions, Babyface's is far superior both accuracy/functions and legal.

Not clue what that is. I know there are some that do a lot, I just didn’t know of any that did everything.

(he means Chingis/Miso Discord bot)
It's very fun

Queen Yuno wrote:

Raionitu wrote:Not clue what that is. I know there are some that do a lot, I just didn’t know of any that did everything.

(he means Chingis/Miso Discord bot)
It's very fun

Oh. I mean, from what I hear it’s nice, but also from what I understand it doesn’t have all the same functions that predator did

Raionitu wrote:Predator did basically everything for a trigger, giving options of the next available targets, generating a list of you hits and misses, gave timer to jump, etc. etc. Using it could let a noob trigger in theory. Broke site rules because it made calls (designed to do so) far beyond the permitted limit.

Nitpick away. I've been gone awhile and remember the events surrounding the controversy far better than the specifics of the controversy itself.

Fun fact: every record made using predator has been broken legally, and while there is nothing quite like it, people have proven you could make a script that has the same functions and is still legal. The difference in accuracy from being legal is negligible. Cheating gives you no real advantage, and puts you at risk to get banned from the site.

Good point, "significant" is hyperbolizing it quite a bit. Now that I think about it, and to build on your point, I seem to remember DEN was actually starting to make the switch over to Elite around the time this happened, which if I remember correctly was about as good as Predator but not as illegal (if I am incorrect on that please feel free to correct me). Edit: I was corrected via telegram; apparently "not as illegal" was in fact a better choice of words than if I had said "more legal". It looks like I need to reread these threads as much as OP does.

The region of TBR did get deleted, it had collapsed before this, during a different illegal script problem (which is why the mods deleted entire regions for this one). The other region cleared was Cimmeria

I assume this bit is for the OP's benefit rather than mine, but honestly had I completely forgotten that Cimmeria existed. Great, now I'm going to have the taste of purism rants and whining about raider unity on my brain for the rest of the day.

Eumaeus wrote:Good point, "significant" is hyperbolizing it quite a bit. Now that I think about it, and to build on your point, I seem to remember DEN was actually starting to make the switch over to Elite around the time this happened, which if I remember correctly was about as good as Predator but not as illegal (if I am incorrect on that please feel free to correct me). Edit: I was corrected via telegram; apparently "not as illegal" was in fact a better choice of words than if I had said "more legal". It looks like I need to reread these threads as much as OP does.

Yea, I always try to let people know that cheating didn't help them in any way they couldn't do normally. That was the whole point of Blackout

I assume this bit is for the OP's benefit rather than mine, but honestly had I completely forgotten that Cimmeria existed. Great, now I'm going to have the taste of purism rants and whining about raider unity on my brain for the rest of the day.

Yea, my post was more just for anyone who came along and read it. Also, how dare you forget T H E D O C T R I N E (hurray for dead gameplay memes)

NOrTh pAcIfiC spY wrote:

Raionitu wrote:Fun fact: every record made using predator has been broken legally, and while there is nothing quite like it, people have proven you could make a script that has the same functions and is still legal. The difference in accuracy from being legal is negligible. Cheating gives you no real advantage, and puts you at risk to get banned from the site.

Not just the same functions, Babyface's is far superior both accuracy/functions and legal.

Babyface's what?

Minoa wrote:See also: https://nsindex.net/wiki/Predator_script_controversy

The Predator script controversy led to an unprecedented move by the moderator team, to return a large number of regions to their original owners. 2016 was also a tough year for NationStates, with the US Presidential elections causing unprecedented levels of toxicity in NSG, and the uncovering of erotic and obscene roleplay hiding behind the telegram system.

If I can make a suggestion to that page, The DEN's deletion was overturned. The region was returned to Wolf with a change in capitalization.

Luna Amore wrote:

Minoa wrote:See also: https://nsindex.net/wiki/Predator_script_controversy

The Predator script controversy led to an unprecedented move by the moderator team, to return a large number of regions to their original owners. 2016 was also a tough year for NationStates, with the US Presidential elections causing unprecedented levels of toxicity in NSG, and the uncovering of erotic and obscene roleplay hiding behind the telegram system.

If I can make a suggestion to that page, The DEN's deletion was overturned. The region was returned to Wolf with a change in capitalization.

Sorry. I fixed it.

Luna Amore wrote:

Minoa wrote:See also: https://nsindex.net/wiki/Predator_script_controversy

The Predator script controversy led to an unprecedented move by the moderator team, to return a large number of regions to their original owners. 2016 was also a tough year for NationStates, with the US Presidential elections causing unprecedented levels of toxicity in NSG, and the uncovering of erotic and obscene roleplay hiding behind the telegram system.

If I can make a suggestion to that page, The DEN's deletion was overturned. The region was returned to Wolf with a change in capitalization.

So what are the latest rules regarding the name DEN and founding regions? I was a big critic of that ruling mostly due to my decade long involvement with DEN before scripting was a thing and was not aware that policy was reversed.

Of crazed wrote:

Luna Amore wrote:If I can make a suggestion to that page, The DEN's deletion was overturned. The region was returned to Wolf with a change in capitalization.

So what are the latest rules regarding the name DEN and founding regions? I was a big critic of that ruling mostly due to my decade long involvement with DEN before scripting was a thing and was not aware that policy was reversed.

That specific one got overturned because The DEN belongs to lone wolves, therefore, wolf den. The idea is no DEN themed regions.