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Blight-Bane
Attaché
 
Posts: 70
Founded: Sep 13, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Blight-Bane » Sat May 11, 2019 9:27 pm

Cataluna wrote:Yeah pretty much? What are you going to do about it? Call us meanies? :P
Come on, you know that doesn’t work. You’ve been on here far too long lol.

I don't have to call you anything. You've laid that out for all to see.

Cataluna wrote:And? You do understand that “fuck off” is meant as much as a dismissive statement as it is a command?

I do. Still not gonna make me magically disappear though. :p

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Cataluna
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 124
Founded: Aug 15, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cataluna » Sat May 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:Yeah pretty much? What are you going to do about it? Call us meanies? :P
Come on, you know that doesn’t work. You’ve been on here far too long lol.

I don't have to call you anything. You've laid that out for all to see.

Cataluna wrote:And? You do understand that “fuck off” is meant as much as a dismissive statement as it is a command?

I do. Still not gonna make me magically disappear though. :p

Those who know what Money has done (including other defenders, I hope) recognize that you’re the one who’s actually made poor assumptions and decisions from a situation you know nothing about. If you’d like to educate yourself, my discord is open. If not, you remain the one who looks bad here.
Trans Woman--"Excuse my beauty"
Founder of Philosopher Kingdom
Socialism or Barbarism!

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Blight-Bane
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Posts: 70
Founded: Sep 13, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Blight-Bane » Sat May 11, 2019 9:46 pm

Cataluna wrote:Those who know what Money has done (including other defenders, I hope) recognize that you’re the one who’s actually made poor assumptions and decisions from a situation you know nothing about. If you’d like to educate yourself, my discord is open. If not, you remain the one who looks bad here.

I beg to differ, but I can see that will fall on deaf ears.

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Cataluna
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 124
Founded: Aug 15, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cataluna » Sat May 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:Those who know what Money has done (including other defenders, I hope) recognize that you’re the one who’s actually made poor assumptions and decisions from a situation you know nothing about. If you’d like to educate yourself, my discord is open. If not, you remain the one who looks bad here.

I beg to differ, but I can see that will fall on deaf ears.

“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.
Trans Woman--"Excuse my beauty"
Founder of Philosopher Kingdom
Socialism or Barbarism!

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat May 11, 2019 9:52 pm

I don't think Cataluna really approached this conversation with you in right way, Bright-Bane, but she's certainly right about one thing. You look bad here.

Moneyness earned his ban with his behavior, both IC and especially OOC. Cataluna assumes you're defending him out of ignorance. I hope that you are, and do better to educate yourself on the facts here.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Sat May 11, 2019 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Ashmoria
Karpathos
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Christian Confederation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1164
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Sat May 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Good to hear you came clean, prahaps leaving NS is a bit much but you do you. Maby we should make a rule that all puppets are to be labeled, and have a spinal tag or something idk.
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Open to new members, and embassy's.
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IRL political views center right/ right.

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Blight-Bane
Attaché
 
Posts: 70
Founded: Sep 13, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Blight-Bane » Sat May 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Cataluna wrote:“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.

I believe I stated earlier that I didn't care what he did. 'Educate' me here please.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6339
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat May 11, 2019 10:06 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.

I believe I stated earlier that I didn't care what he did. 'Educate' me here please.


Site rules here do not allow us to discuss everything that happened on this forum in complete detail, but the incoming statement from The Council of Hawks will cover it about as best as we think we can here.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Serboro
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Posts: 71
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Serboro » Sat May 11, 2019 10:07 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.

I believe I stated earlier that I didn't care what he did. 'Educate' me here please.

if.....if you don't care......why are you here? why are you still talking lmao
My waifu is always the answer.
Always.
~~
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat May 11, 2019 10:08 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.

I believe I stated earlier that I didn't care what he did. 'Educate' me here please.

There are rules against exposing OOC behavior onsite, as Cormac alluded to.

I have a question, though. What crosses the line, in your book? What would you have to hear about him?
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Blight-Bane
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Posts: 70
Founded: Sep 13, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Blight-Bane » Sat May 11, 2019 10:12 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Site rules here do not allow us to discuss everything that happened on this forum in complete detail

Rightly so. Not for lack of trying though.

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Eumaeus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 172
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Sat May 11, 2019 10:15 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Cataluna wrote:“No u,” said the boy, as he still did not ask Cataluna what was going on to better educate himself.

I believe I stated earlier that I didn't care what he did. 'Educate' me here please.

You do understand that stating a player has done something that would otherwise be against site rules with only offsite evidence to back it up is itself against the rules, right? If you're new to the forums I suggest you read the one-stop-rule-stop, specifically the "Jurisdiction" section of this post.

Cataluna has already graciously offered to speak to you off-site:
Cataluna wrote:Edit: I apologize. It appears you can’t quite understand the underlying message of what I’m saying here. I don’t mean to disparage people if there’s a legitimate misunderstanding. If you’d like to hit me up on discord at @Antigone#2005, I’d be more than happy to explain in detail what Money did and why he’s banned.

Edit:
Blight-Bane wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Site rules here do not allow us to discuss everything that happened on this forum in complete detail

Rightly so. Not for lack of trying though.

Ah, nevermind. You just don't care.
Last edited by Eumaeus on Sat May 11, 2019 10:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat May 11, 2019 10:16 pm

Blight-Bane wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Site rules here do not allow us to discuss everything that happened on this forum in complete detail

Rightly so. Not for lack of trying though.

I think I'm starting to get it. You want OOC drama out of the game. I can understand that.

The big problem is, though, that you've chosen the wrong thread and the wrong player to make that case.

There are victims of white-knighting in Gameplay. Money isn't one of them.

EDIT: NEITHER WAS PERG. SHOO NPO :p
Last edited by RiderSyl on Sat May 11, 2019 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ashmoria
Karpathos
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Armaros
Diplomat
 
Posts: 609
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Sun May 12, 2019 12:44 am

And here I was hoping that banning toxic players and protecting our communities was something we could all agree on is a good thing. Apparently nope. Why are people argueing against this? How is banning people proven to be unhealthy for the community controversial?
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Raionitu
Diplomat
 
Posts: 530
Founded: Jun 06, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Raionitu » Sun May 12, 2019 4:54 am

V A N Q U A R I A wrote:Lmfao, still hav absolutely no idea what he did exactly even after reading all posts here but Money dude sounds like hes reformed from the past and improved himself so good on him.

What in the thread leads you to believe that?
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
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Honeydewistania
Envoy
 
Posts: 248
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun May 12, 2019 4:58 am

V A N Q U A R I A wrote:
Vetelo wrote:I'll admit, it is quite entertaining watching your enemies squabble among themselves.


Lmfao, still hav absolutely no idea what he did exactly even after reading all posts here but Money dude sounds like hes reformed from the past and improved himself so good on him.

He continues to smear people like Koth on his apology. He also went behind and hid his identity. If he was reformed he would had come clean and apologise before instead of waiting.
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Guy
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1755
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Guy » Sun May 12, 2019 5:21 am

Vult and I have had our differences, but I've always respected him. He's a skilled player who will very likely return to the game at some point. I hope he does it in his own name - not only for the obvious reason, but also because differentiating between true remorse and regret at being caught is very difficult, especially over text. That will give him a chance to prove that he truly meant it.

Lamoni wrote:Cormac,

Now would be a good time for you to take a step or two back, and cool off. NS has a blanket moratorium on insulting other users, and you know this.


*** Warning for Flaming ***

I understand the need to preserve the appearances that moderation action is applied equally -- almost mechanically -- but you could at least show a degree of self-awareness. Cormac's message was important contextually in that it laid out why people care so much about this incident. I'm sure your warning isn't a deterrent.

"omg, this isn't Moderation, Guy". Pretend like it matters and warn me. Providing occasional ad-hoc commentary on moderation decisions is good for one's soul. Better for you too than people just complaining about it off-site or doing it in a roundabout way (see: this thread's commentary on the defamation rule.)
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[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.

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New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9073
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Sun May 12, 2019 11:47 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Blight-Bane wrote:Rightly so. Not for lack of trying though.

I think I'm starting to get it. You want OOC drama out of the game. I can understand that.

The big problem is, though, that you've chosen the wrong thread and the wrong player to make that case.

There are victims of white-knighting in Gameplay. Money isn't one of them.

EDIT: NEITHER WAS PERG. SHOO NPO :p
Making no enemies in Gameplay is no fun, but at the same time someone doesn't need to be an ass about it and deceive people with pseudo identities.

Generally I have low respect for the people that hide under new identities to cover up stuff they did.

I could have come back as a new player when I switched RL countries, but I still kept my old name and my NS region ban list i.e. my badges of honor. :lol:

Holds silly opinions on some things, and likes animals of all kinds, including the scary ones.
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Escade
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1018
Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Escade » Sun May 12, 2019 1:10 pm

I can understand why Cormac is frustrated and in general with the line between on-site and off-site why players could be frustrated with not being able to discuss exactly why they're effing pissed about something. It's a slippery slope and not one that is easily solved to anyone's satisfaction.

That said,
King HEM wrote:A lot of issues are getting conflated here, and I think it's worth focusing on the things that should get someone blacklisted from Nationstates: bigotry directed at other players and serious false OOC accusations.

People keep bringing up being a leaker and lumping that into that, but tbh I don't really care if someone is leaking? That's apart of the espionage in the game and should not be conflated with the other issues in my opinion.

Anyways, Vult I think it's a good idea you step away from the game for a moment, but I hope to see you again with your judgment hopefully reassessed.


Going to third this (after Yuno). It's important to be able to clarify which are the actions that are OOC damaging and which are IC. I do think that there need to be avenues for people who want to come back (and have made amends with those they harmed in a private venue rather than apologizing in a public spectacle venue) such as Vulturret. I have little info on the Money case therefore don't want to comment on that but sometimes (it seems) there are lines that are crossed which don't afford coming back.

Something I didn't want to talk about but am going to address now is the recent outing of a player in TEP who had decided to take on a new IC identity to start fresh. I don't know why that player was targeted (why they became a player to investigate and why when they had committed no OOC violations their identity was revealed). I'm still upset over the entire situation.

There's a huge difference between a player (like Block and it seems like Money) using a "new" or "alternate" identity to start fresh and hide their past. It's exceptionally harmful because there are players who want nothing to do with them and are being tricked and forced into contact. Then there is a player who may have a IC reputation as a "fool" or etc who wants to start over.

That latter player, without the OOC baggage, still should not misrepresent themselves or try to trick players who don't like them into interacting with them. However, I have heard from several players who wished they could "start over" who hadn't done anything OOC bad but wanted to get out of their reputation. One possible solution for those players would be to talk to an admin of the region they wanted to join as a new player and perhaps submit a private disclosure\etc. That way the admin would know (and hopefully not gossip and keep the information private) so they could be alert to the alternate identity.

Having some clearer guidelines on which players we are willing to let back in (with universal standards applicable to all) and which we definitely aren't (most OOC situations including sexual harrassment, pedophilia, etc) would help.

Here are things that should be the case for everyone on NS:
- Everyone is playing a character, you don't have to believe that character (especially if the character is a very crude and stereotypical version of a "female") but you aren't entitled to know their real information or to investigate them (unless something actually suspicious is going on)
- No one is entitled to your personal info such as gender, age, name, location, etc (neither via doxxing, nor via social manipulation, nor via you providing it to them and them spreading it)
Last edited by Escade on Sun May 12, 2019 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cataluna
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 124
Founded: Aug 15, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cataluna » Sun May 12, 2019 3:26 pm

V A N Q U A R I A wrote:
Raionitu wrote:What in the thread leads you to believe that?


His big and public apology

Honeydewistania wrote:He continues to smear people like Koth on his apology. He also went behind and hid his identity. If he was reformed he would had come clean and apologise before instead of waiting.


Good point. Maybe he was too scared to

You’re exactly the person I’d expect to defend him. Glad you’re no longer in anywhere that matters :)
Trans Woman--"Excuse my beauty"
Founder of Philosopher Kingdom
Socialism or Barbarism!

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Devi
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 61
Founded: Nov 09, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Devi » Sun May 12, 2019 3:38 pm

V A N Q U A R I A wrote:His big and public apology

The one where he continued to smear Koth and perpetuate misinformation, you mean? Seems sincere to me.
-Devi;

probably an ebil raider.

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Anagonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2499
Founded: Dec 18, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Anagonia » Sun May 12, 2019 3:43 pm

Remember, it's just a game.
Last edited by Anagonia on Sun May 12, 2019 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ourisio
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 57
Founded: Jan 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ourisio » Sun May 12, 2019 4:07 pm

Why the actual fuck is this public? This is not your personal sounding board, take it to discord or telegrams.
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Liberal Thermidorian Reaction
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: May 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Liberal Thermidorian Reaction » Sun May 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Ourisio wrote:Why the actual fuck is this public? This is not your personal sounding board, take it to discord or telegrams.

People seem to have this need in Gameplay to air out their dirty laundry.
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I am a non-partisan, believer in Republicanism, and adherent of classical liberalism/Libertarianism.

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4835
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun May 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Forgive us for wanting to ensure that the assorted masses of Gameplay are informed.

In that vein, tgs aren't wide enough and Discord is just as relatively public but the most central server isn't always as well populated by the regional leaders and such who would need to know something like this.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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