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The East Pacific - Statement on Wonder Woman's Departure

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Davelands
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Postby Davelands » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:19 am

I'm really not seeing why this is such a "TEP is Wrong" thing.

Fron what I heard, the agreement was for CS to quietly leave the region and not mention anything about his deceptions. In return, we would not launch a public ban trial for lying on our Public Disclosure Form and Citizenship app. This was agreed to by both parties.

Then, at 6:30 pm on Sunday, CS decides to post the grandiose "I'm Sorry" dispatch, thereby breaking the agreement. Tim responded with this thread at 7:00 pm.

Now, was this a shining moment in the history of TEP? No.
Is it a big deal? Also no.
Is it worthy of 3 forum pages of discourse? Probably not, but Gameplay has been quiet for a while and I guess any activity is good activity.
Am I going to continue to ask and answer my own questions? I promise I'll stop.
Last edited by Davelands on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:21 am

Bachtendekuppen wrote:That this could've been handled better by both parties, including TEP, is kicking in an open door. We'll have to assess that internally. That being said, WW or however he is made quite the error in judgement and any further position in TEP is clearly not tenable, "quietly" or not.

I like the 'formal trial, strip of government positions if you must, and see what the community at large thinks is an adequate time to forgive' approach.

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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 am

Davelands wrote:I'm really not seeing why this is such a "TEP is Wrong" thing.

Fron what I heard, the agreement was for CS to quietly leave the region and not mention anything about his deceptions. In return, we would not launch a public ban trial for lying on our Public Disclosure Form and Citizenship app. This was agreed to by both parties.

Then, at 6:30 pm on Sunday, CS decides to post the grandiose "I'm Sorry" dispatch, thereby breaking the agreement. Tim responded with this thread at 7:00 pm.

Now, was this a shining moment in the history of TEP? No.
Is it a big deal? Also no.
Is it worthy of 3 forum pages of discourse? Probably not, but Gameplay has been quiet for a while and I guess any activity is good activity.
Am I going to continue to ask and answer my own questions? I promise I'll stop.

From the screen shots we've seen thus far, the agreement was for him to "resign quietly" -- and he did. To me, that says he was supposed to resign without making a fuss, i.e., not force anyone to take action to kick him out. I haven't seen any indication that he was told not to disclose his alternate identity. In fact, one point Tim has argued in defense of TEP releasing a statement is that TEP had an obligation to inform its allies of Crystalsummer using the Wonder Woman alternate identity. So you can't have your cake and eat it too. If it was a good idea for TEP to inform its allies of Crystalsummer's alternate identity, then there was no reason Crystalsummer shouldn't also have confessed his alternate identity and apologized for it.

Here's the situation, and this is why people are upset with TEP over this. Crystalsummer, despite wrongly using an alternate identity in TEP, did contribute a lot to TEP and there's really no proof he was maliciously doing this instead of just trying to start over. He respectfully and quietly resigned, as requested, and he was told if he did that there would be no big public fuss made by TEP. Instead, Tim thunders into the NSGP server out of the blue not only to link the announcement, but to go on about malicious "infiltration" and make incredibly salty, unproven accusations. So the issue people are having is not even necessarily that TEP made a statement, but that it went about it in this grandiose and disrespectful way, especially when both the Delegate and his Minister of Security promised the opposite. And this isn't even the first time this kind of thing has gone on during Fedele's administration. I think people are just really tired of seeing Fedele's administration treat people who contribute to TEP like crap when they make mistakes. It's uncalled for and we're sick of it.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Greatest Bestest Nation
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Postby The Greatest Bestest Nation » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:55 am

Davelands wrote:I'm really not seeing why this is such a "TEP is Wrong" thing.

Fron what I heard, the agreement was for CS to quietly leave the region and not mention anything about his deceptions. In return, we would not launch a public ban trial for lying on our Public Disclosure Form and Citizenship app. This was agreed to by both parties.

Then, at 6:30 pm on Sunday, CS decides to post the grandiose "I'm Sorry" dispatch, thereby breaking the agreement. Tim responded with this thread at 7:00 pm.

Now, was this a shining moment in the history of TEP? No.
Is it a big deal? Also no.
Is it worthy of 3 forum pages of discourse? Probably not, but Gameplay has been quiet for a while and I guess any activity is good activity.
Am I going to continue to ask and answer my own questions? I promise I'll stop.

Tim was already looking for evidence of infiltration at that point, so it was obvious something was going to happen. Besides, if you check the logs of the conversation between Tim and Crystal, it was obvious something was going to happen regardless of what Crystal did, so he decided to be preemptive.

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Nakarisaune
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Postby Nakarisaune » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:00 am

Davelands wrote:I'm really not seeing why this is such a "TEP is Wrong" thing.

Fron what I heard, the agreement was for CS to quietly leave the region and not mention anything about his deceptions. In return, we would not launch a public ban trial for lying on our Public Disclosure Form and Citizenship app. This was agreed to by both parties.

Then, at 6:30 pm on Sunday, CS decides to post the grandiose "I'm Sorry" dispatch, thereby breaking the agreement. Tim responded with this thread at 7:00 pm.

Now, was this a shining moment in the history of TEP? No.
Is it a big deal? Also no.
Is it worthy of 3 forum pages of discourse? Probably not, but Gameplay has been quiet for a while and I guess any activity is good activity.
Am I going to continue to ask and answer my own questions? I promise I'll stop.


In the screenshot of Crystalsummer's conversation with Tim, Tim says that Crystalsummer not mentioning his deception in his resignation post was unacceptable, that it needed to be disclosed publicly or things would happen "the hard way", and that Tim was aware of and expecting that dispatch to be made. That doesn't seem to match this narrative :P
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Elegarth
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Postby Elegarth » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:44 am

If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

But it happened to TEP, which is not very much liked right now, so you are ALL bandwagonning AGAINST TEP.

Classy, GP. Keep it up.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:49 am

Elegarth wrote:If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

But it happened to TEP, which is not very much liked right now, so you are ALL bandwagonning AGAINST TEP.

Classy, GP. Keep it up.

Am I known as an Osiris or Lazarus partisan? Didn't think so. I just don't like dick moves.

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Altino
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Postby Altino » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:13 am

I appreciate the notification, at least, so that those of us who still have WonderWoman as a citizen can deal with the case of citizenship fraud that we all have on our hands now. And so I can personally make angry faces at my DMs with some choice conversations that now seem less like a kid with questions and more like a subversive trying to get close to the right people. Boo at that.

Buuuut also, yeah, if TEP promised that they would leave CS alone if he resigned quietly, then busted him out anyway, that's sort of a dick move. I understand that they didn't want him to control the narrative. But I don't see that there's much of a narrative to even control. He did a naughty. Tut tut. And he was very power grabby and unafraid to use iffy tactics to get what he wanted. But I mean, he's just playing the game. Probably not the end of the world. TEP would've done better to just bust him out to begin with, rather than vaguely threaten him and then make a statement of their own anyway because he didn't make himself seem like enough of a bad guy.

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Tim Stark
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Postby Tim Stark » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:52 am

Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.
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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:06 am

Elegarth wrote:If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

Still sore about something, Elegarth?
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:19 am

I am new to GP side of things, but I do have a long-standing nation (though lurking a little) nation in FNR (Vostrov's the name), so...

Well, I can say that I have nothing against Crystalsummer, to be honest. It's not solely because I am his region-mate, either. I know the guy for quite some time, from those days when my own region got raided and I migrated to FNR as a refugee, and Crystal along with many others, have been nothing but kind to us.

I will admit, it will be adviseable and good for people to disclose all the puppets they have if they are going into NSGP or going for some Regional Officer role, but understandably, mistakes can happen, and I personally forgive Crystal in the sense that he has done nothing malicious.

Once again, I'm a rookie when it comes to NSGP, but I have lurked and talked to so many regions and people, so yeah, I am speaking from personal experience. I am neither speaking for Osiris, nor FNR, nor TNP, nor anyone else, but me. ^^
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.


That OP definitely looks like an official statement.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.


That OP definitely looks like an official statement.

It could be oh-so-powerful-I'm-quivering Tim throwing "The East Pacific" around to try to look powerful and official.
Last edited by Bormiar on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ELfiNE
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Postby ELfiNE » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:29 pm

Davelands wrote:I'm really not seeing why this is such a "TEP is Wrong" thing.

Fron what I heard, the agreement was for CS to quietly leave the region and not mention anything about his deceptions. In return, we would not launch a public ban trial for lying on our Public Disclosure Form and Citizenship app. This was agreed to by both parties.

Then, at 6:30 pm on Sunday, CS decides to post the grandiose "I'm Sorry" dispatch, thereby breaking the agreement. Tim responded with this thread at 7:00 pm.

Now, was this a shining moment in the history of TEP? No.
Is it a big deal? Also no.
Is it worthy of 3 forum pages of discourse? Probably not, but Gameplay has been quiet for a while and I guess any activity is good activity.
Am I going to continue to ask and answer my own questions? I promise I'll stop.


While the apology might have been a bit cringey, the fact that you're not seeing why the creation of this thread is an issue is kind of telling. Was CS not supposed to make a dispatch about the situation? If so, why do we have a screenshot of Tim demanding that one be made? Why was there even a need to make a forum post in the first place if it's by your own admittance, not a big deal? Just because Gameplay hasn't been active as of late doesn't give y'all free range to go back on your word and dunk on someone like that. It's infantile.

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ELfiNE
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Postby ELfiNE » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:37 pm

ELfiNE wrote:I feel like I need to say that this condition was never given by Fedele, whose logs were screencapped an hour and a half after the discussion with Tim. Meaning that most likely, Tim alone is the one that probably decided to make this thread. Whack.


Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.


Hey look! A massive I told you so moment! The only thing Big Boy Tim [who has made me tremble in boots from his extreme power] has left to do is to edit the OP! Can't wait to see that! Have fun Tim!

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Elegarth
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Postby Elegarth » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:52 pm

RiderSyl wrote:
Elegarth wrote:If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

Still sore about something, Elegarth?

Let's not derail TEP's related thread with the total lack of capacity your movement has to make me sore about anything.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:01 pm

Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.

I remember what I used to do as Pharaoh of Osiris when one of my ministers went rogue and did something that embarrassed us without authorization...
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:10 pm

Elegarth wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:Still sore about something, Elegarth?

Let's not derail TEP's related thread with the total lack of capacity your movement has to make me sore about anything.

You're the one that brought it up.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Miporin » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:18 pm

Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.

TEP having inexcusable internal communications errors, leading to them looking incompetent, if not downright malicious.
Never had that happen before :roll:

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Postby The Church of Satan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:42 pm

Elegarth wrote:If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

But it happened to TEP, which is not very much liked right now, so you are ALL bandwagonning AGAINST TEP.

Classy, GP. Keep it up.

I have zero rapport with Osiris, a bad rapport with Lazarus and a total dislike of TSPs ruling persons. I dunno who the "good guys" are but bandwaggoning? Not on your life, lol. I simply dislike bullies.
Tim Stark wrote:Hello mountain builders, y'all have some real nice molehills lying around here.

Here's the skinny. A very unfortunate miscommunication occurred, so I was unaware Fedele had promised Crystalsummer no statement. Obviously, had I known the Delegate had made that assurance, I wouldn't have then gone and done it. Given the situation, I called an audible during a period where Fedele was pre-occupied with Easter festivities. It didn't reflect the official stance of The East Pacific or our present administration as a whole. As an Administration we'll be standing by not making a statement, and I personally apologize for the unauthorized statement I personally made.

Your description of events doesn't sound like a mistake. It makes your government look incompetent. Official statements such as what you posted are supposed to be run by the leader of a government before being released.
Cormactopia Prime wrote:I remember what I used to do as Pharaoh of Osiris when one of my ministers went rogue and did something that embarrassed us without authorization...

When I find myself agreeing with Cormac more and more often this should be taken as a sign of some global catastrophe that's on it's way. If this is happening then I'm gonna start hording jump points or something. O_o
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Postby New Rogernomics » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:18 pm

Elegarth wrote:If this has happened to the supposed good guys (Osiris, Laz, etc) all of GP would be bandwagonning to slay CS / WW.

But it happened to TEP, which is not very much liked right now, so you are ALL bandwagonning AGAINST TEP.

Classy, GP. Keep it up.
Lazarus isn't at all involved in this, as we don't know enough to form an opinion nor have we been contacted on this matter as far as I can tell. It would be sort of a stretch to imply that withholding judgment on this affair before all facts are on the table, is disrespectful to the internal politics of TEP.

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:41 am

Latin Islands wrote:
Crystalsummer wrote:

Dear Nationstates, and the gaming community,

My name is Crystalaummer. I am the founder of The Free Nations Region. I have a huge confession to make. I went by the name Wonder Woman, and Mysterious Wonder. While I am not proud to admit this, I want to say I did not commit any malicious behavior. Wonder Woman was created back in August of 2017. Originally created as a role playing nation, it became even more when I got involved with the TEP community.
I played 2 nations and I kept them separate. I went completely inactive in my Crystalsummer identity, when I became Wonder Woman.
All my actions were exclusively in-character, not out-of-character. I did not make any OOC friends, I did not catfish anyone. I put 100% effort into my time in TEP. When I was the Minister of Immigration, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and an Arbiter, I did not try to coup the region. I worked all my extra time to benefit the TEP community, and give back to a region that gave me so much. On April 19, 2019, I decided that I would hide no longer. While I disappointed a lot of people, I want to say I am truly sorry for hiding who I really was. I have informed TEP and apologized for doing this, and I was told to quietly resign as a citizen of TEP or they will make this whole thing public. The fact that they allowed me to quietly resign as TEP citizen, without making this whole thing public, is because they did not deem me as an OOC threat. Because I am not. I did not make any OOC friends using Wonder Woman, I only vaguely alluded to being a college student studying Chemistry (which I am!)

I never catfished, or committed any malicious activity. I played the character and left it at that.
And Wonder Woman is a female Superhero from Marvel named Wonder Woman. I never said I was a girl in real life, but even if I said that, I don’t catfish, look for boyfriend, or anything shady. I NEVER befriended the same person with 2 identities (WonderWoman and Crystalsummer) to manipulate them. So no one was OOC manipulated by me.I did not join a region as a citizen using both WW and Crystalsummer.
I tried keeping both nation identities as separate as possible. For example, I used WonderWoman exclusively for regions. I never got citizenship for both WW and CrystalSummer in any 1 region.
The only “bad” OOC thing I have done, is play NS as a girl, but, in my opinion, GENDER does not matter. I never sought out boys or catfished boys.
I played as a Marvel Female Superhero, and acted entirely in-character, I didn’t commit malicious activity. I played the character and left it at that.
So please do not believe any OOC-related smear campaigns. Many people have infiltrated GCRs using a 2nd identity (some of them using female identities,) to try to coup that GCR. They got forgiven, without their reputations OOC ruined. I want you guys to know, I infiltrated a GCR using a 2nd identity, but I did not do anything malicious. I did not even plan to coup that GCR, nor did I want to. I earned my ranks ethically, and legitimately. The ONLY reason I used a 2nd identity to join that GCR, TEP, was because I was worried that my reputation was destroyed, because Defenders banned me from their Libcord Discord Server for hanging out with Raiders. I thought everyone hated me because of the Libcord-ban scenario, and I wanted to get involved in TEP but was afraid with my broken reputation, I’d be unable to do anything. I now understand that I was wrong, because I could have gotten the same ranks and positions, with my Crystalsummer identity. Now I understand that, it did not matter anywhere, that I had a bad reputation with Defenders for associating with Raiders, because TEP and other regions won’t care.
I apologize for my foolish mistake, and hope you forgive me, and accept me as both the Crystalsummer and WonderWoman nations. I mean no harm and I didn’t hurt anyone, since I didn’t make OOC friends using my other Wonder Woman account, I just did in-character government stuff. My last thing is this, I do want to thank all of the friends that I did make in SP, and TEP! Thank you for the opportunity I did have, and I want to say again I am sorry about I did. Please forgive me, and I hope someday I’ll be accepted in the community.

Thank you for your attention!

Umm...

Isn't Wonder Woman from DC?

That is the biggest affront in this thread.
Last edited by Pierconium on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4452
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:16 am

Pierconium wrote:
Latin Islands wrote:

Umm...

Isn't Wonder Woman from DC?

That is the biggest affront in this thread.

Agreed
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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Indo-Malaysia
Minister
 
Posts: 2458
Founded: Nov 07, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Indo-Malaysia » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:32 am

I am frankly quite disgusted by this whole situation.

A player wants a fresh start after getting a ban for ‘talking with raiders’ (lets be honest, moralism is six feet in the grave, and indie orgs are allowed in, so this makes zero sense), gets found out and is allowed to quietly resign. All of a sudden, TEP backtracks on this and Tim starts harassing Crystal via DM.

And now I hear that they are banned from Libcord by Tim, with apparently no intention of ever being let back in.
Last edited by Indo-Malaysia on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tsar of the Order of the Southern North.

MoD of the NSIDC.

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Bormiar
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:45 am

Indo-Malaysia wrote:I am frankly quite disgusted by this whole situation.

A player wants a fresh start after getting a ban for ‘talking with raiders’ (lets be honest, moralism is six feet in the grave, and indie orgs are allowed in, so this makes zero sense), gets found out and is allowed to quietly resign. All of a sudden, TEP backtracks on this and Tim starts harassing Crystal via DM.

And now I hear that they are banned from Libcord by Tim, with apparently no intention of ever being let back in.

I have to agree, and that's correct that CS was banned from Libcord.

At least he's in The Rejected Realms' discord server. :)

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