Confederation of Corrupt Dictators: Ultimate Gameplay Thread

[Tinhampton]

heinous OOC ideologies

When will the CCD stop being sensible, damnit?

[United Calanworie]

heinous OOC ideologies

When will the CCD stop being sensible, damnit?

Unsure. I like the fact that things are actually happening, though I'm not entirely convinced that they're going to continue down this path. If they do, that's good for them, but rebuilding trust with the GP community as a whole will take some time.

[Yokiria]

I think this gives a general idea, we simply had no appreciation of the scope of the problem, and now that it has been made crystal clear to us, the Confederation is rightfully ending our association with any region following these heinous OOC ideologies. I personally consider this as one of the greatest miscalculations our region has made in its long history, and on behalf of the Confederation, to the wider NationStates community as a whole, I wish to formally apologise for our past association with these regions.

Thank you.

In hindsight, the NS Community should've tried a tactic other than "beat CCD over the head" when trying to get y'all to realize your miscalculation. As Pierconium once said during the NPO-APC crisis, all of the game coming down on one community will make that community even more stubborn.

[Jar Wattinree]

I think this gives a general idea, we simply had no appreciation of the scope of the problem, and now that it has been made crystal clear to us, the Confederation is rightfully ending our association with any region following these heinous OOC ideologies. I personally consider this as one of the greatest miscalculations our region has made in its long history, and on behalf of the Confederation, to the wider NationStates community as a whole, I wish to formally apologise for our past association with these regions.

Thank you.

In hindsight, the NS Community should've tried a tactic other than "beat CCD over the head" when trying to get y'all to realize your miscalculation. As Pierconium once said during the NPO-APC crisis, all of the game coming down on one community will make that community even more stubborn.

When you have a hammer, every thing looks like a nail. Put that hindsight on hold until some time has passed.

[WayNeacTia]

I think this gives a general idea, we simply had no appreciation of the scope of the problem, and now that it has been made crystal clear to us, the Confederation is rightfully ending our association with any region following these heinous OOC ideologies. I personally consider this as one of the greatest miscalculations our region has made in its long history, and on behalf of the Confederation, to the wider NationStates community as a whole, I wish to formally apologise for our past association with these regions.

Yeah okay. You had no appreciation for the problem? What? Did you think all these regions you had affiliation with were just a bunch of edge lords, who liked to play nazi? You saw the shit they were posting in your Discord. Did you think it was all for kicks? Jokes? Because it is the cool thing to say behind a wall of anonymity? This is akin to burning down someones house and then apologizing after the fact, because you had no idea matches are actually used for lighting fires.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Yeah okay. You had no appreciation for the problem? What? Did you think all these regions you had affiliation with were just a bunch of edge lords, who liked to play nazi?

Truthfully? For the most part, yes actually, because...

You saw the shit they were posting in your Discord. Did you think it was all for kicks? Jokes? Because it is the cool thing to say behind a wall of anonymity?

...other regions never officially posted anything discriminatory in our CCD Discord. Farkasfalka, for example, sent a single ambassador who never posted anything of the sort. Other regions either sent no ambassadors, or did much the same - they knew we'd never tolerate it.

We only found out about the true, terrible nature of these regions because Jocospor made the mistake of venturing into their Discord servers.

This is akin to burning down someones house and then apologizing after the fact, because you had no idea matches are actually used for lighting fires.

I'm not sure I get this comparison, but okay.

[Confederation State Broadcasting]

The Confederation's official "Leaders of the Confederation" factbook has been updated! Check it out:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=joc ... /id=524025

The first official portrait of Sir Aleksandr Ivanov HCF, the Mouth and Will of the Confederation, has been published:



The following discursive note is provided:

Following what has been termed the "February Snap" by wider NationStates, the Imperial Empire fell into a kind of dark age. Little is known of this time. The existing government structures collapsed and gave rise to a "Shadow Cult" led by a mysterious emperor. This, of course, affected the Confederation's executive administration.

This emperor first chose to address his Confederation over Easter. The address included this revealing statement: "It is with great pleasure that I speak to you now from Vocryae. During these changing times, it has been necessary for me to conceal my identity; this I shall continue to do, at least until much time has passed. Much has changed within Jocospor. I now reign as your Shadow Emperor, following the collapse of my predecessor and his Imperial Cabinet."

While the exact fate of Murdoch Kellner is unknown, Sir Aleksandr Ivanov HCF, Chancellor of the Supreme Judiciary, assumed de facto control of the Confederation on 1st Feb 2020 under the title "The Mouth and Will". He was later legitimised as leader of the region on behalf of the "Shadow Emperor" by the Imperial Constitution on 9th Feb 2020. Since his appointment, details concerning the governance of the Shadow Cult have slowly come to light.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

From another thread...

Also if you say you've reformed and then attempt to falsify hit pieces against others, I don't think that's very "reformed" of you. Keep up the good stuff though and who knows...

I have quite literally zero idea what you're referencing with this.

[The New California Republic]

Prydania is one of the strongest anti-fascists on NationStates. Why should he take you for your word that the CCD - your region - is no longer as awful and nasty as it used to be?

Indeed. It'll likely take at least a year or so of exemplary good behaviour before CCD gets off of the naughty stool.

If you're a musician, you shouldn't practise for four hours a day. You should practise until you get better or achieve a specific goal.

I don't think there's any need to be kept on the "naughty stool" for any longer than needed. In any case, that says more about those hosting our time out than us.

Trust me, you all need to be kept on it for a very long time in light of the various bullshit. So no, it won't be longer than needed, just a very long time, which is the correct amount of time. I'm just telling you how it is. But try to keep up with the good behaviour. If you are expecting fast results after years of CCD bullshit then that's just not going to happen I'm afraid. Sorry.

And it should be taken as a given that if the CCD pulls any shit in the meantime then in the eyes of the rest of NS the clock resets back to the beginning again, wiping out every ounce of good behaviour accrued up to that point.

[The Gilded Star]

Indeed. It'll likely take at least a year or so of exemplary good behaviour before CCD gets off of the naughty stool.

If you're a musician, you shouldn't practise for four hours a day. You should practise until you get better or achieve a specific goal.

I don't think there's any need to be kept on the "naughty stool" for any longer than needed. In any case, that says more about those hosting our time out than us.

I'm very happy with the path CCD is on and look forward to slamming through a Commend continuing down it.

Not sure if that's the best analogy. Generally people continue practicing skills or trades indefinitely, because there's always room for improvement, and always a value in keeping your skills sharp and honed.

At the moment, CCD would probably be on something closer to a probationary period than a naughty stool. While a lot of NSGP will agree with the decisions and actions CCD has recently made, they'll want to see that these decisions are permanent.

Give it time. Pretty sure a couple of other regions were taken off the CDS list after a period of verifiable reform. I expect that CCD can do the same as long as it stays out of trouble.

[Syberis]

If you're a musician, you shouldn't practise for four hours a day. You should practise until you get better or achieve a specific goal.

I don't think there's any need to be kept on the "naughty stool" for any longer than needed. In any case, that says more about those hosting our time out than us.

I'm very happy with the path CCD is on and look forward to slamming through a Commend continuing down it.

Not sure if that's the best analogy. Generally people continue practicing skills or trades indefinitely, because there's always room for improvement, and always a value in keeping your skills sharp and honed.

At the moment, CCD would probably be on something closer to a probationary period than a naughty stool. While a lot of NSGP will agree with the decisions and actions CCD has recently made, they'll want to see that these decisions are permanent.

Give it time. Pretty sure a couple of other regions were taken off the CDS list after a period of verifiable reform. I expect that CCD can do the same as long as it stays out of trouble.

I'm going to be honest here. Even if you guys become the best angels in NS, you've still got at least a year before active distrust from the GCRs falls away, and at least one more before people stop being wary of you. It's taken regions that didn't try to infiltrate a GCR out of spite longer than that, though.

That's the best case scenario. If you're doing this solely to rehabilitate your image quickly, it's not gonna happen. If you're doing this honestly, the distrust will be something you bear while you prove that you're better than you were.

Nobody owes you forgiveness or acceptance. You have to earn that over a long time.

[The Gilded Star]

I'm going to be honest here. Even if you guys become the best angels in NS, you've still got at least a year before active distrust from the GCRs falls away, and at least one more before people stop being wary of you. It's taken regions that didn't try to infiltrate a GCR out of spite longer than that, though.

That's the best case scenario. If you're doing this solely to rehabilitate your image quickly, it's not gonna happen. If you're doing this honestly, the distrust will be something you bear while you prove that you're better than you were.

Nobody owes you forgiveness or acceptance. You have to earn that over a long time.

I feel like CCD's reputation with fascists and CCD's reputation as NS villains are two gauges that should be measured separately right now, since one is far worse than the other and extends outside of gameplay issues.

Whether or not CCD continues to be an NSGP villain remains to be seen, and I suspect, honestly, they will continue to be so for one reason or another, but that shouldn't warrant keeping them indefinitely on Civil Defence Siren's list of OOC fascist regions. If CCD can provably and convincingly keep OOC fascism out of their region, then they should, rightfully, be (eventually) removed from that list even if they were still active in non-fascist shennanigans like GCR couping.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Given the numerous references to the failed Operation 84, I think I need to point out that CCD is not trying to form an alliance with TNP. CCD is not trying to establish embassies with TNP. CCD is not trying to join WALL (lol).

I have not anywhere implied we are entitled to immediate forgiveness or acceptance. I honestly think that TNP being distrusting of CCD is pretty well justified given our past, although I have it on good authority we do not have an Operation 85 underway (yet).

However, Civil Defence Siren is not a list of regions TNP does not trust, and frankly whether or not TNP trusts CCD is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

All I have requested is that TNP review CCD's inclusion on the Civil Defence Siren. My (very clear) understanding is that this organisation exists to warn new nations who join regions known to be involved with OOC fascism. Given the Confederation has, since originally being included on the Civil Defence Siren, removed the "Fascist" tag, closed all embassies with regions either themselves embracing OOC fascism, or associating with others that do, severed all ties with these regions both on and off site, and currently displays a dispatch entitled "CCD Continues Stance Against Heinous OOC Ideologies" in the top spot below our WFE, I do not think this is an unreasonable request.

[Jocospor]

If you're a musician, you shouldn't practise for four hours a day. You should practise until you get better or achieve a specific goal.

I don't think there's any need to be kept on the "naughty stool" for any longer than needed. In any case, that says more about those hosting our time out than us.

I'm very happy with the path CCD is on and look forward to slamming through a Commend continuing down it.

Not sure if that's the best analogy. Generally people continue practicing skills or trades indefinitely, because there's always room for improvement, and always a value in keeping your skills sharp and honed.

You've misinterpreted. I didn't say musicians shouldn't practise, or should become complacent. I simply was making the point that measuring attainment strictly temporally is not always the most efficient way for one to improve.

If you need an explicit example: You might have practised for four hours a day, but you still can't play the scale. Or, you might practise until you can play the first four notes of the scale fluently. That took [x] amount of time. Then, the next day, you practise for [y] amount of time, now adding into the scale the notes you missed. Now you can play the whole scale! Then, the next day again, you might practise slowly increasing the tempo of the scale, say from 60 bmp to 80 bmp. The point here is that goal-based learning is much more strategic and healthier than simply locking yourself in a room for a specific amount of time, hoping that you'll have improved after that amount of time.

I know we all think Jocospor is a bit thick, and sometimes he has his days, but my analogy was fine

[WayNeacTia]

However, Civil Defence Siren is not a list of regions TNP does not trust, and frankly whether or not TNP trusts CCD is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Show me one nation on that list that is trusted by any reputable region? Go ahead, take your time.

[The New California Republic]

Not sure if that's the best analogy. Generally people continue practicing skills or trades indefinitely, because there's always room for improvement, and always a value in keeping your skills sharp and honed.

You've misinterpreted. I didn't say musicians shouldn't practise, or should become complacent. I simply was making the point that measuring attainment strictly temporally is not always the most efficient way for one to improve.

If you need an explicit example: You might have practised for four hours a day, but you still can't play the scale. Or, you might practise until you can play the first four notes of the scale fluently. That took [x] amount of time. Then, the next day, you practise for [y] amount of time, now adding into the scale the notes you missed. Now you can play the whole scale! Then, the next day again, you might practise slowly increasing the tempo of the scale, say from 60 bmp to 80 bmp. The point here is that goal-based learning is much more strategic and healthier than simply locking yourself in a room for a specific amount of time, hoping that you'll have improved after that amount of time.

I know we all think Jocospor is a bit thick, and sometimes he has his days, but my analogy was fine

You can all show us you are sincere by staying on the naughty stool and behaving yourselves for a long time. But as I said, any nonsense in the meantime and the clock resets. It's up to you.

[Xoriet]

All I have requested is that TNP review CCD's inclusion on the Civil Defence Siren. My (very clear) understanding is that this organisation exists to warn new nations who join regions known to be involved with OOC fascism. Given the Confederation has, since originally being included on the Civil Defence Siren, removed the "Fascist" tag, closed all embassies with regions either themselves embracing OOC fascism, or associating with others that do, severed all ties with these regions both on and off site, and currently displays a dispatch entitled "CCD Continues Stance Against Heinous OOC Ideologies" in the top spot below our WFE, I do not think this is an unreasonable request.

I would hazard a guess that to achieve removal from the list is going to take a fair length of time given the length of duration of your ties with the fascist circle. It's possible to achieve certainly, but this move by your region is fairly recent. It took other regions in similar situations considerable time because they kept finding relapses in fascist removal or the region refused to remove certain problematic members for months. Kaiserreich is a good example of that. Once you've gone long enough without any associations with fascists and no resurgence of the ideology in your region, you will have a decent chance at being removed entirely. TNP will not keep you on the list because of personal feelings against your coup attempt. That is not the purpose of the CDS.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

However, Civil Defence Siren is not a list of regions TNP does not trust, and frankly whether or not TNP trusts CCD is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Show me one nation on that list that is trusted by any reputable region? Go ahead, take your time.

Flawed argument.

A valid comparison to make would be the fact that there are many regions not trusted by large GCRs, yet are not on the Civil Defence Siren.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

All I have requested is that TNP review CCD's inclusion on the Civil Defence Siren. My (very clear) understanding is that this organisation exists to warn new nations who join regions known to be involved with OOC fascism. Given the Confederation has, since originally being included on the Civil Defence Siren, removed the "Fascist" tag, closed all embassies with regions either themselves embracing OOC fascism, or associating with others that do, severed all ties with these regions both on and off site, and currently displays a dispatch entitled "CCD Continues Stance Against Heinous OOC Ideologies" in the top spot below our WFE, I do not think this is an unreasonable request.

I would hazard a guess that to achieve removal from the list is going to take a fair length of time given the length of duration of your ties with the fascist circle. It's possible to achieve certainly, but this move by your region is fairly recent. It took other regions in similar situations considerable time because they kept finding relapses in fascist removal or the region refused to remove certain problematic members for months. Kaiserreich is a good example of that. Once you've gone long enough without any associations with fascists and no resurgence of the ideology in your region, you will have a decent chance at being removed entirely. TNP will not keep you on the list because of personal feelings against your coup attempt. That is not the purpose of the CDS.

I understand this, and don't think it is entirely unreasonable, although I'd appreciate an official response at least acknowledging our request from TNP.

Thank you anyway for clarifying - do you have any rough idea of the length of time we're talking about here?

[Xoriet]

I understand this, and don't think it is entirely unreasonable, although I'd appreciate an official response at least acknowledging our request from TNP.

Thank you anyway for clarifying - do you have any rough idea of the length of time we're talking about here?

I can't give you a precise number, but how it plays out will depend on how sincere CCD proves itself to be over the next few months most likely. Sufficient time in their eyes with no resurgence to fascist association or internal fascist tolerance will make all the difference in your case as to the continuation of the CDS focus on CCD. And keep in mind that any reversal of that policy should you manage to achieve a removal from the CDS TG will put you back on the list.

[Syberis]

I will say that a region openly doing stuff to get off the CDS seems much less likely to attain their goal than one that appears to be openly trying to reform independent of that. Though, I have literally no involvement with it so who fucking knows, I just have common sense here.

But yeah, you're saying the bit of your motivation that's supposed to be quiet out loud here

[ShrewLlamaLand]

I will say that a region openly doing stuff to get off the CDS seems much less likely to attain their goal than one that appears to be openly trying to reform independent of that. Though, I have literally no involvement with it so who fucking knows, I just have common sense here.

But yeah, you're saying the bit of your motivation that's supposed to be quiet out loud here

Removing the CCD from the Civil Defence Siren is not, and was never, the motivation behind ending all ties with OOC fascist regions. My two factbooks, along with Jocospor's earlier factbook on leaving the IRX, explain this.

I had not even considered the CDS until well after we decided to close embassies with OOC fascist regions, a nation actually mentioned the CDS in conversation and I thought it would be reasonable to ask a few people and at least query TNP over it. I'm not really sure why this has created more drama.

[Socialist Macronesia]

I have no ties to CCD or any facist organization at all.

That being said, this thread in and of itself is exactly what CCD wants. They want everyone to argue with them and say that CCD are the bad guys.

They want the attention, good or bad. Every time you post about how they commended themselves or their bad ideologies, they are getting more and more attention. If you want to shut down all the facist regions or regimes in other regions, you're barking up the wrong tree, because for every region you break, two more will take its place.

People will do whatever they are going to do. I don't see how arguing will change it. A wholehearted discussion would work in the real world, but you aren't going to convince someone on the Internet to change their fake nations and their online personality. They don't matter, because you can post facist stuff, rile up the internet, and no one will know who you are.

Sure, CCD might be facist off the internet. But I doubt that. I think if Jocospor is as smart as he's shown to be in getting attention, he's smart enough to not be a facist.

TL;DR: all this attention is exactly what CCD wants.

[Jocospor]

Figure 1 (below):



@Socialist Macronesia, it's far too late, my little, green friend.

[Yokiria]

@Socialist Macronesia

/msg Jocospor That's not how it works.