Confederation of Corrupt Dictators: Ultimate Gameplay Thread

[Xoriet]

It's terribly ironic that a majority of GCRs are going around knocking off small region's WA Delegates to silence their approvals, in order to prove that the WA Elite doesn't exist. Yet in doing so, they directly violate regional sovereignty and prove what they are so desperately trying to hide: if you're a small region, or small nation, your opinion doesn't matter. Only the Elite matters.

No, actually we just bumped off your proposal because we don’t like fascists or fascist sympathizers. If someone wants to believe in your absurd theory, that’s up to them. It’s you specifically, your region, and your allies that led up to the quorum raiding.

[Twobagger]

[...]
The Black Hawks also participated in the later two raids. So much for apolitical. This was possibly as retaliation for my draft to "Repeal: Condemn The Black Hawks".

(Image)

It's terribly ironic that a majority of GCRs are going around knocking off small region's WA Delegates to silence their approvals, in order to prove that the WA Elite doesn't exist. Yet in doing so, they directly violate regional sovereignty and prove what they are so desperately trying to hide: if you're a small region, or small nation, your opinion doesn't matter. Only the Elite matters.

I can only imagine this was the case for two reasons, considering the amount of effort expended; a) the WA Elite is afraid of the consequences on their continued dominance over the World Assembly if it were to make quorum, yet alone pass, and, b) they wanted to force through "Commend Kuriko" first, to honour their corrupt mate for who they rigged the Sec-Gen election.

Hello there. Thanks for posting one of my raid reports, by the way. I can't speak to the other members, but I organized this raid and picked out targets for TBH. I didn't know that the GCRs were doing the same thing - if I had, I'd have chosen targets differently and dropped a few more delegates who approved your proposal.

As an aside, I personally don't like fascist regions. Look at the image you posted of that region we hit. Look at all those embassies we closed: "The Coalition of Fascist Nations," "The Greater Nazi Empire," "United Fascist Workers Association," and more. The fact that so many of the regions that supported your proposal just happened to be fascist or have embassies with fascists was a nice bonus.

But come on. You've posted a repeal of one of our Condemnations. You said in the thread that you are doing it because you don't like raiders. I'm a raider. It shouldn't be a surprise that you're on my radar, and that some of us came for something you wrote. TBH hardly fits the image of the "World Assembly Elite" that you've painted - our delegate has fewer than half as many votes in the WA as yours does. We're certainly not doing it to help Kuriko, the delegate of a prominent defender region. It's much simpler than that: you've decided that you want to pick a fight with us. It shouldn't be a surprise when some of us fight back.

[The Order of the Holy Inquisitors]

The TNP coup? Honestly, that probably contributed, although the continued focus on this terrible coup attempt is misguided. I was personally never involved, and the two nations who actually infiltrated TNP were removed from their roles as regional officers and now reside in another region.

"Removed from their roles" paints a very untruthful picture. You guys actually brought me into your inner circle during the "reform crisis" to try and handle the many nations leaving the CCD for places like the AWF, but I only stayed long enough to help Riakou, leaving on my own shortly after everything was said and done.

I think you'll find that those ex-CCD nations who founded a new region did so with those two players responsible for infiltrating TNP. They clearly don't share your outrage.

If you're referring to the outrage towards the lack of any punishments for Jocospor, we do share that outrage. It's why we all left. If you're referring to something else, by all means do elaborate.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

The TNP did subvert WA democracy. What the CCD did many months ago doesn't excuse what TNP did yesterday.

Explain to me how a (failed) attempted coup by the CCD months ago means that TNP is innocent when they've infiltrating dozens of other, unaffiliated regions just for approving a proposal. Most of these regions were not even our allies; they're random regions with which we've never even had contact with before, they just happened to agree with my message against the WA Elite.

How does a failed coup by our region justify your region going along and knocking off the Delegate in dozens of other innocent regions? Explain that to me.

I'm not the Minister of Defence, I can't speak to the specifics of that operation, but you were provided links to see all of the relevant deployment info. You don't even need to register on our forum to see them.

Regarding the specifics? As someone who was not involved in any of that in any way? I'd say that you tried to subvert our democracy (the things Joco said when he thought no one was looking...geeze) and attempted to infiltrate us twice. You've continuously attacked us, degraded us in your rhetoric, and generally acted antagonistic towards us.
I understand this is a foreign concept for the CCD, but your actions have consequences.

I saw the forum post you linked, there's not much info there other than just confirming the raids happened.

You're not getting my point. If TNP had wasted their effort on knocking me off the Delegacy for an update instead, sure, that's probably justified. It'd be tit-for-tat. Except... they didn't. Instead they went after dozens of innocent regions just for approving my proposal. So it seems to me that TNP is trying to use something the CCD did to justify their actions in violating the regional sovereignty of many other unafilliated regions. That is, unless you're trying to say that these regions are also guilty just by approving a proposal?

Okay, good, that's fair.

I can only imagine you've thought I'm some Manifesto-thumping Marxist. I was, until I moved to the US for work, a card carrying member of the Conservative Party of Canada. I'm a Red Tory specifically, if that term means anything to you. I'm as centrist and unexciting politically as possible.
To be fair, I don't know what your assumptions about my politics were before this, but your response there read like you thought I was a socialist. And tbf? I have had people, including a few from your region, accuse me of being a socialist merely because I told them "fascism's bad, m'kay?"
Fuckin' nationalists these days. To them you're either marching with tiki torches or you're a degenerate Marxist.

I didn't really make any assumptions on your personal beliefs, just most people who attack the CCD for "being fascist" are absolutely a-okay with communism. Some roleplay as communists themselves.

You can't deny that communism and fascism aren't viewed nearly the same in (general) here on NationStates.

Why then are you so against the CCD, but don't speak out against other large regions like The Communist Bloc or The Leftist Assembly, both of which openly roleplay as communist nations?

Neither The Communist Bloc or The Leftist Assembly creates spectacle after spectacle in the WA trying to promote themselves or their ideology, now do they? Neither of them have run candidates for SecGen, and cry about it everywhere when their candidates lose. Neither of them go on and on and on and on and on and on about the WA Elite. Neither of them have a bad habit of crashing spectacularly in public and then doubling down while denying all responsibility.

Don't get confused. I find communism and fascism equally reprehensible, but in terms of NS gameplay? The CCD and its fascist wankery stands alone.

Custadia addressed this point quite well, there have been many prominent communist nations within the WA in the past. To my knowledge you've never been vocal against them?

[ShrewLlamaLand]

It's terribly ironic that a majority of GCRs are going around knocking off small region's WA Delegates to silence their approvals, in order to prove that the WA Elite doesn't exist. Yet in doing so, they directly violate regional sovereignty and prove what they are so desperately trying to hide: if you're a small region, or small nation, your opinion doesn't matter. Only the Elite matters.

No, actually we just bumped off your proposal because we don’t like fascists or fascist sympathizers. If someone wants to believe in your absurd theory, that’s up to them. It’s you specifically, your region, and your allies that led up to the quorum raiding.

[...]
The Black Hawks also participated in the later two raids. So much for apolitical. This was possibly as retaliation for my draft to "Repeal: Condemn The Black Hawks".

(Image)

It's terribly ironic that a majority of GCRs are going around knocking off small region's WA Delegates to silence their approvals, in order to prove that the WA Elite doesn't exist. Yet in doing so, they directly violate regional sovereignty and prove what they are so desperately trying to hide: if you're a small region, or small nation, your opinion doesn't matter. Only the Elite matters.

I can only imagine this was the case for two reasons, considering the amount of effort expended; a) the WA Elite is afraid of the consequences on their continued dominance over the World Assembly if it were to make quorum, yet alone pass, and, b) they wanted to force through "Commend Kuriko" first, to honour their corrupt mate for who they rigged the Sec-Gen election.

Hello there. Thanks for posting one of my raid reports, by the way. I can't speak to the other members, but I organized this raid and picked out targets for TBH. I didn't know that the GCRs were doing the same thing - if I had, I'd have chosen targets differently and dropped a few more delegates who approved your proposal.

As an aside, I personally don't like fascist regions. Look at the image you posted of that region we hit. Look at all those embassies we closed: "The Coalition of Fascist Nations," "The Greater Nazi Empire," "United Fascist Workers Association," and more. The fact that so many of the regions that supported your proposal just happened to be fascist or have embassies with fascists was a nice bonus.

But come on. You've posted a repeal of one of our Condemnations. You said in the thread that you are doing it because you don't like raiders. I'm a raider. It shouldn't be a surprise that you're on my radar, and that some of us came for something you wrote. TBH hardly fits the image of the "World Assembly Elite" that you've painted - our delegate has fewer than half as many votes in the WA as yours does. We're certainly not doing it to help Kuriko, the delegate of a prominent defender region. It's much simpler than that: you've decided that you want to pick a fight with us. It shouldn't be a surprise when some of us fight back.

Here's two examples of what I just said in my post above. What do you both think of communist regions?

To address the second post, yes I did, and yes, that's correct, I don't like raiders. I'm mulling over another appeal for the second condemn too, actually, although I'm currently thinking it'd be better to try one at a time.

Given the fact that you've tried to justify TBH not being part of the WA Elite by citing Delegate endorsement counts, well, that proves you have very little idea of how the WA Elite functions. TBH is a part of the WA Elite by their association with other very powerful members, including various Pacifics. Three Pacific regions supported your candidate for the Sec-Gen election, for example, and Trans Anarcho whatever even accepted McMasterdonia as running mate. Just because your Delegate endorsement count is low (you know, because raiders need their WA membership for raids) doesn't mean TBH isn't part of the WA Elite.

I think you'll find that those ex-CCD nations who founded a new region did so with those two players responsible for infiltrating TNP. They clearly don't share your outrage.

If you're referring to the outrage towards the lack of any punishments for Jocospor, we do share that outrage. It's why we all left. If you're referring to something else, by all means do elaborate.

So what you're apparently telling me is that you share in TNP's outrage of the CCD's coup attempt... despite the fact that you were literally the one running the coup attempt?

Do you own a mirror? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

[South Reinkalistan]

So what you're apparently telling me is that you share in TNP's outrage of the CCD's coup attempt... despite the fact that you were literally the one running the coup attempt?

Do you own a mirror? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

I for one can't speak for Inquis, but I think it's fair to say that he was drawn in by Joco. If you look at the screenshots from TNP's report of the whole situation, it becomes evident that Inq was recruited and motivated to do it by Jocospor, with promise of rewards and soforth. Inq was naive and wanted to impress the individual a pseudo-cult of personality had been built around.

"Removed from their roles" paints a very untruthful picture. You guys actually brought me into your inner circle during the "reform crisis" to try and handle the many nations leaving the CCD for places like the AWF, but I only stayed long enough to help Riakou, leaving on my own shortly after everything was said and done.

Also, stop hairsplitting, and account for this.

[Bowzin]

Is everyone in the WA elite except you? Cause if that's the case, I think its just that the WA doesn't want you around

[The New California Republic]

This is relevant here too:

We will not be silenced

(Image)

Gotta tilt at those WA windmills, they have invisible scripts hidden inside.

[Francois Isidore]

Here's two examples of what I just said in my post above. What do you both think of communist regions?

What we think of communist regions is irrelevant. The Confederation is not a communist region, it is an authoritarian, fascist, and tyrannical region. The only thing you’re attempting to do by proposing the question in the first place is set aside the negative attention you’re currently receiving and then make a move to divert it to communist regions. Again, if you’re going to play the victim card in public please at least be good at it.

To address the second post, yes I did, and yes, that's correct, I don't like raiders. I'm mulling over another appeal for the second condemn too, actually, although I'm currently thinking it'd be better to try one at a time.

Given the fact that you've tried to justify TBH not being part of the WA Elite by citing Delegate endorsement counts, well, that proves you have very little idea of how the WA Elite functions. TBH is a part of the WA Elite by their association with other very powerful members, including various Pacifics. Three Pacific regions supported your candidate for the Sec-Gen election, for example, and Trans Anarcho whatever even accepted McMasterdonia as running mate. Just because your Delegate endorsement count is low (you know, because raiders need their WA membership for raids) doesn't mean TBH isn't part of the WA Elite.

So... let me get this straight: You claim in your own words that the Black Hawks have “evidently” very little idea about how the World Assembly elite functions yet... are also still somehow included in that and are a part of it? That’s ludicrous. Even if this supposed “elite” were to exist as you say it does (which it doesn’t, you’re just pressing a tired narrative) then wouldn’t them evidently knowing very little about how it works discredit them from being members? I don’t know, just a thought.

[Prydania]

Custadia addressed this point quite well, there have been many prominent communist nations within the WA in the past.

No, Custadia whined about a leftist SecGen, missing my point. There are right wing people, there are left wing people. These are not the same as fascists or communists. I've been playing this game since 2006. I've seen plenty of people of note who have been right wing or left wing. These people aren't inherently problems.
Speaking of which...

To my knowledge you've never been vocal against them?

Like I said I've been around since 2006. You have a VERY limited knowledge of what and who I have been vocal against.
Like I said, I'm vocal against you and your lot specifically because you're obnoxious and petulant in addition to promoting a horrid ideology. My thoughts on communism mean NOTHING in regards to you, because only a bad faith actor tries to muddy criticism of either communism or fascism by invoking the other.

[The Order of the Holy Inquisitors]

So what you're apparently telling me is that you share in TNP's outrage of the CCD's coup attempt... despite the fact that you were literally the one running the coup attempt?

Do you own a mirror? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

I'd be happy to explain it for ya.

I was, in large part, drawn in on the premise of "sticking it to the man" and overthrowing a bunch of elites. That excited me, because all that I had heard or seen up until that point was nonstop demonization of them. I fell for the propaganda and the personality cult back then, but things changed.

With my time in the North Pacific came a lot of sloppy actions on my part. But, I had no training, very little direction, and nobody else in the region despite my requesting I have backup. The failures there I don't pin on myself so much as I pin on those who lured me in with promises of power, and failed to deliver the essential tools necessary for me to take my job seriously and act effectively. When I first tried out roleplay, I was a part of the Strangereal community. It was an odd community (as the name would imply) but one I liked a lot. Part of what I liked about it is how familiar it all felt: a bunch of nations running around making friends and enemies, waging wars and having fun. It was not unlike my own roleplay experiences back in the CCD, with the near constant wars and alliance-making. And it was in that moment where things started to make less sense.

I took a bit of a break for a bit due to personal reasons, and when I returned I entered into government. I tried my hand at legislative work, and it was alright. It wasn't it for me then, though by the time I processed that, Chuck threw us all out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I was rather upset with him at first, and was really looking forward to the opportunities of potentially lasting change in the CCD. I knew Joco was interested in cementing a place in Gameplay, and though I was always an advocate for pursuing diplomacy (my first job outside the Treasury was ambassador. It's how I got caught in TNP in the first place) he preferred the conquest method. Nevertheless, I had hoped he may view the diplomacy and reform path as more viable with such a catastrophic backfiring. I spent hours writing and talking with many of my close NS friends about reforms (most of whom reside in the AWF presently) and we were all excited about the potential to make a difference.

As history shows, my hopes were in vain. Many people fled, the new Constitution proved to be no better than the original, and everything I hoped Jocospor would do proved false. My belief in his personality cult was already waning, but that was the nail in the coffin. I remember seeing a message from Riakou on Discord one afternoon, and a few days later I left the CCD having done my part.

My anger lies not exactly with that of the North Pacific, yet still points the way theirs does. My anger lies in the deception that I fell for. I betrayed the trust of thousands of nations, whether they were friends in roleplay, people to discuss insights and religion with, or fellow legislators. It hurts knowing I hurt many people who didn't deserve to be hurt. You can't see it, but there are good people in the North Pacific. Most of them are. I can't speak for everyone, but for the ones I met, they didn't deserve what I did to them. Even if I still don't entirely agree with the leadership of the North Pacific nowadays, I can understand and respect them in a way that, before, I was simply too blind to do. For them, anger comes from an outside assailer. For me, it's internal, forged in great part by my very own actions.

I'm ashamed of my actions, but at least I have the gall to admit that and try to make changes for the better. It's a real shame you and Joco couldn't.

[The Chuck]

So what you're apparently telling me is that you share in TNP's outrage of the CCD's coup attempt... despite the fact that you were literally the one running the coup attempt?

Do you own a mirror? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

I'd be happy to explain it for ya.

I was, in large part, drawn in on the premise of "sticking it to the man" and overthrowing a bunch of elites. That excited me, because all that I had heard or seen up until that point was nonstop demonization of them. I fell for the propaganda and the personality cult back then, but things changed.

With my time in the North Pacific came a lot of sloppy actions on my part. But, I had no training, very little direction, and nobody else in the region despite my requesting I have backup. The failures there I don't pin on myself so much as I pin on those who lured me in with promises of power, and failed to deliver the essential tools necessary for me to take my job seriously and act effectively. When I first tried out roleplay, I was a part of the Strangereal community. It was an odd community (as the name would imply) but one I liked a lot. Part of what I liked about it is how familiar it all felt: a bunch of nations running around making friends and enemies, waging wars and having fun. It was not unlike my own roleplay experiences back in the CCD, with the near constant wars and alliance-making. And it was in that moment where things started to make less sense.

I took a bit of a break for a bit due to personal reasons, and when I returned I entered into government. I tried my hand at legislative work, and it was alright. It wasn't it for me then, though by the time I processed that, Chuck threw us all out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I was rather upset with him at first, and was really looking forward to the opportunities of potentially lasting change in the CCD. I knew Joco was interested in cementing a place in Gameplay, and though I was always an advocate for pursuing diplomacy (my first job outside the Treasury was ambassador. It's how I got caught in TNP in the first place) he preferred the conquest method. Nevertheless, I had hoped he may view the diplomacy and reform path as more viable with such a catastrophic backfiring. I spent hours writing and talking with many of my close NS friends about reforms (most of whom reside in the AWF presently) and we were all excited about the potential to make a difference.

As history shows, my hopes were in vain. Many people fled, the new Constitution proved to be no better than the original, and everything I hoped Jocospor would do proved false. My belief in his personality cult was already waning, but that was the nail in the coffin. I remember seeing a message from Riakou on Discord one afternoon, and a few days later I left the CCD having done my part.

My anger lies not exactly with that of the North Pacific, yet still points the way theirs does. My anger lies in the deception that I fell for. I betrayed the trust of thousands of nations, whether they were friends in roleplay, people to discuss insights and religion with, or fellow legislators. It hurts knowing I hurt many people who didn't deserve to be hurt. You can't see it, but there are good people in the North Pacific. Most of them are. I can't speak for everyone, but for the ones I met, they didn't deserve what I did to them. Even if I still don't entirely agree with the leadership of the North Pacific nowadays, I can understand and respect them in a way that, before, I was simply too blind to do. For them, anger comes from an outside assailer. For me, it's internal, forged in great part by my very own actions.

I'm ashamed of my actions, but at least I have the gall to admit that and try to make changes for the better. It's a real shame you and Joco couldn't.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Is everyone in the WA elite except you? Cause if that's the case, I think its just that the WA doesn't want you around

That's a bit rich coming from an officer of Balder, you know, a region directly involved in the recent raids.

Here's two examples of what I just said in my post above. What do you both think of communist regions?

What we think of communist regions is irrelevant. The Confederation is not a communist region, it is an authoritarian, fascist, and tyrannical region. The only thing you’re attempting to do by proposing the question in the first place is set aside the negative attention you’re currently receiving and then make a move to divert it to communist regions. Again, if you’re going to play the victim card in public please at least be good at it.

The Confederation is not an authoritarian, fascist, or tyrannical region, it's a region of roleplay. Hence, I can only assume you are upset with the concept of nations roleplaying as ideologies that have a very tainted history in real-life. Given this, it's very fair to make the comparison to communism, which has an equally tainted history.

To address the second post, yes I did, and yes, that's correct, I don't like raiders. I'm mulling over another appeal for the second condemn too, actually, although I'm currently thinking it'd be better to try one at a time.

Given the fact that you've tried to justify TBH not being part of the WA Elite by citing Delegate endorsement counts, well, that proves you have very little idea of how the WA Elite functions. TBH is a part of the WA Elite by their association with other very powerful members, including various Pacifics. Three Pacific regions supported your candidate for the Sec-Gen election, for example, and Trans Anarcho whatever even accepted McMasterdonia as running mate. Just because your Delegate endorsement count is low (you know, because raiders need their WA membership for raids) doesn't mean TBH isn't part of the WA Elite.

So... let me get this straight: You claim in your own words that the Black Hawks have “evidently” very little idea about how the World Assembly elite functions yet... are also still somehow included in that and are a part of it? That’s ludicrous. Even if this supposed “elite” were to exist as you say it does (which it doesn’t, you’re just pressing a tired narrative) then wouldn’t them evidently knowing very little about how it works discredit them from being members? I don’t know, just a thought.

No, I stated that the nation making those comments does not know how the WA Elite functions. Their signature even states:

The views expressed above are mine alone, and not necessarily those of any region or organization (even ones I'm a member of).

Custadia addressed this point quite well, there have been many prominent communist nations within the WA in the past.

No, Custadia whined about a leftist SecGen, missing my point. There are right wing people, there are left wing people. These are not the same as fascists or communists. I've been playing this game since 2006. I've seen plenty of people of note who have been right wing or left wing. These people aren't inherently problems.
Speaking of which...

To my knowledge you've never been vocal against them?

Like I said I've been around since 2006. You have a VERY limited knowledge of what and who I have been vocal against.
Like I said, I'm vocal against you and your lot specifically because you're obnoxious and petulant in addition to promoting a horrid ideology. My thoughts on communism mean NOTHING in regards to you, because only a bad faith actor tries to muddy criticism of either communism or fascism by invoking the other.

Okay. Caelapes won the Sec-Gen Election in 2016 promising to "establish FULL COMMUNISM in NationStates". I trust you were equally vocal against their campaign? Of course you were not.

I'm not trying to muddy any criticism of fascism, and I've never denied it's a terrible system of government in real life. The difference between us is that I just don't see a problem with roleplaying as such in an online game.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

I'm ashamed of my actions, but at least I have the gall to admit that and try to make changes for the better. It's a real shame you and Joco couldn't.

So what you're saying is that you made a choice, of your own free will, to follow the orders of Jocospor for personal gain, power and influence within the CCD. You then spent close to a year infiltrating the region until, apparently, "things started to make less sense".

When the situation eventually went south and you were exposed for it, you then decided that instead of owning up to your own actions and taking responsibility, you'd shove the blame onto Jocospor and claim you were emotionally manipulated.

Okay champ, got it.

[Twobagger]

To address the second post, yes I did, and yes, that's correct, I don't like raiders. I'm mulling over another appeal for the second condemn too, actually, although I'm currently thinking it'd be better to try one at a time.

You don't like us, so you're trying to repeal one of our condemnations. We don't like you, so we came for one of your resolutions.

It's not that hard. It's how the game is played - we're just much better at it than you are.

Given the fact that you've tried to justify TBH not being part of the WA Elite by citing Delegate endorsement counts, well, that proves you have very little idea of how the WA Elite functions. TBH is a part of the WA Elite by their association with other very powerful members, including various Pacifics. Three Pacific regions supported your candidate for the Sec-Gen election, for example, and Trans Anarcho whatever even accepted McMasterdonia as running mate. Just because your Delegate endorsement count is low (you know, because raiders need their WA membership for raids) doesn't mean TBH isn't part of the WA Elite.

If it seems like an ignorant definition of the WA Elite, that's because it's yours:

Even among other WA Delegates, as a relatively large region by population, we exert far too much power over the voting process; yet we aren't even close to influence of many other nations, Delegates of large and powerful regions comprising the so-called WA elite, members of which individually hold voting power equivalent to thousands of nations.
[...]
[T]oday I speak not to look back at this past, but to protest the present, to protest the enormous influence that a few influental magnates serving as WA Delegates of sinker, feeder and the largest user created regions exert over the World Assembly voting process. Almost all voting power within the World Assembly goes directly to the top one percent of powerful WA Delegates. There is something profoundly wrong when, in any given vote within the World Assembly Security Council or General Assembly, the top two-tenths of one percent, not one percent, top two-tenths of one percent, of voting nations control up to 50% of all votes cast. This is immoral, wrong, and represents a grotesque level of inequality between nations, and indeed regions, of the World Assembly, allowing such a powerful few to exert their excessive, unjust influence over the relatively powerless many.

Earlier, you said that the WA Elite rigged the election for Kuriko. Now you're telling me that most of the Pacifics backed our candidate instead. Here's a hint: if the WA Elite was beholden to a raider organization, they wouldn't have supported the delegate of a major defender region.

[Prydania]

Okay. Caelapes won the Sec-Gen Election in 2016 promising to "establish FULL COMMUNISM in NationStates". I trust you were equally vocal against their campaign? Of course you were not.

Nah, because here's the thing. FULL COMMUNISM isn't really possible in NS now is it? Redistribute the wealth? What wealth? There's no economy aside from buying stamps! Nationalize industry? What industry? Max Berry owns the whole G-ddman thing. Full communism. FFS. It was ridiculous for them to run on, and doubly so for you to feel like it was in any way a serious thing.

Meanwhile fascism? Well like I've said I've been around a while. I remember when Stormwatch, an actual neo-Nazi online community, tried to use NS for recruitment. I remember when at least one of the regions you have embassies with used their Discords to try and recruit for the Unite the Right white supremacist valley in Charlottesville.

Fact is fascism has a long, ugly history on this site. It's not "left wing bias" or "WA Elite" mechanism that have led to fascism being specifically shunned here. There's a history of actual, real harm being doing via this game on the part of fascist/white supremacist groups.

Of course this is just more of you trying to deflect from your own region's failings. The topic here is the CCD. What Caelapes did or said is irrelevant.

I'm not trying to muddy any criticism of fascism, and I've never denied it's a terrible system of government in real life. The difference between us is that I just don't see a problem with roleplaying as such in an online game.

G-ddamn. I actually try to assume you're discussing things in good faith, but the crap you say really makes me think you're selectively choosing what to emphasize for your own spin. Here's a post I made in this thread, only a page back.

viewtopic.php?p=36955523#p36955523

It's a NationStates RP Symposium 2019 lecture I gave on how to effectively RP fascism. I gave it because I, despite not being a fascist, RP'd as a fascist nation in Lexicon and Taijitu RP for close to a decade. I had an opportunity to present a lecture for that event and chose to speak on that topic, as I felt it was one NS needed to hear. In part thanks to your region's constant failings.

Your region doesn't fail because your region RPs as a fascist regime in-game, it fails because it doe so in the most offensive way possible- straight up LARPing as Nazi Germany and other actual fascist regimes.

Earlier, you said that the WA Elite rigged the election for Kuriko. Now you're telling me that most of the Pacifics backed our candidate instead. Here's a hint: if the WA Elite was beholden to a raider organization, they wouldn't have supported the delegate of a major defender region.

We here at WA Elite Inc like to make such nonsensical moves to keep freedom fighters like Joco and Shrew guessing.

[Boda]

So much hate and rudeness in this thread.

[Badivermeraed]

So much hate and rudeness in this thread.

I mean, there's fascists, so duh.

[Custadia]

No, Custadia whined about a leftist SecGen, missing my point. There are right wing people, there are left wing people. These are not the same as fascists or communists. I've been playing this game since 2006. I've seen plenty of people of note who have been right wing or left wing. These people aren't inherently problems.
Speaking of which...

>misley
>not a communist

living under a rock since 2006, maybe.

[The Order of the Holy Inquisitors]

Alright Shrew, let's break this down.

So what you're saying is that you made a choice, of your own free will, to follow the orders of Jocospor for personal gain, power and influence within the CCD.

Yes. I made a choice. A misguided one no doubt, yet a choice of my own free will. That I don't deny.

You then spent close to a year infiltrating the region until, apparently, "things started to make less sense".

I spent close to a year peddling my lies, you've spent over three on yours. The fact it took me this long to get straightened out is appalling, but at least I got there. And it's not a bad thing to recognize that the people who you demonize are just people like you that simply don't subscribe to worshipping your leader, unless of course it's the only reason your region has yet to collapse.

When the situation eventually went south and you were exposed for it, you then decided that instead of owning up to your own actions and taking responsibility...

Yeah, because cooperating with investigative forces, accepting the punishment given to me by the authorities in question, reaching out personally to the delegates of the North Pacific to apologize, and trying to apologize multiple times to the community I harmed at large isn't "owning up" to my actions. But, given how the Confederation views "owning up" to its actions as issuing a fake apology, then backtracking, then making some cosmetic changes, I can see how you'd be confused.

...you'd shove the blame onto Jocospor and claim you were emotionally manipulated.

I'm not pinning all the blame on him, Shrew. If you can't tell, a lot of the blame and disappointment is with myself. But yes, I am shoving some blame onto him. It's the blame he deserves for running a personality cult that shields fascists, punishes anyone who can't subscribe to the dangerous groupthink present in the CCD, and for trying to orchestrate the coup in question.

Okay champ, got it.

You clearly don't, bud.

If you'd like to continue with back-and-forth dialogue, I'd be happy to. But, if you're gonna keep denying the truth and the gravity of your actions, we're done here.

[Prydania]

No, Custadia whined about a leftist SecGen, missing my point. There are right wing people, there are left wing people. These are not the same as fascists or communists. I've been playing this game since 2006. I've seen plenty of people of note who have been right wing or left wing. These people aren't inherently problems.
Speaking of which...

>misley
>not a communist

living under a rock since 2006, maybe.

I mean...*looks around*
I don't exactly the communist dictatorship they were supposed to usher in.

Of course that's irrelevant. People like you like to drag communism into the discussion in attempt to somehow deflect from the harm inherent in fascism.
We're not talking about communism though, we're talking about fascism in the CCD. Which can- and should- be condemned on its own merits.

[Custadia]

I mean...*looks around*
I don't exactly the communist dictatorship they were supposed to usher in.

Of course that's irrelevant. People like you like to drag communism into the discussion in attempt to somehow deflect from the harm inherent in fascism.
We're not talking about communism though, we're talking about fascism in the CCD. Which can- and should- be condemned on its own merits.

Setting aside your conjecture about communism being an economic matter alone, which anybody who gave a crap about it would tell you is wrong over in NSG, I never defended fascism. I just saw some guy making a fool of himself saying that no communists had run for gensec when literally the last gensec was a communist elected to the position on an openly communist platform and thought maybe he'd like to know that what he was saying was obviously wrong. I never said that I had an issue with him having been elected either, you rather rudely interpreted my correction as "whining" yourself.

[Bowzin]

Is everyone in the WA elite except you? Cause if that's the case, I think its just that the WA doesn't want you around

That's a bit rich coming from an officer of Balder, you know, a region directly involved in the recent raids.

My bad for fash bashing and opposing my regions enemies
Point is you just say someone is part of the WA elite whenever they oppose you. Pretty hypocritical considering you just claimed the "WA Elite" just calls people fascists to discredit them, and you go around calling people WA elite to discredit them.

Like really...TBH, the WA elite? No offense to TBH but there aren't any regions out there that are trying to please TBH in WA affairs, or any affairs for that matter.

[Prydania]

I just saw some guy making a fool of himself saying that no communists had run for gensec when literally the last gensec...

I actually never said that. Go back and read. I said that no member of The Communist Bloc or The Leftist Assembly had run for SecGen and then cried about it after they had lost. Here's the post in question.

Why then are you so against the CCD, but don't speak out against other large regions like The Communist Bloc or The Leftist Assembly, both of which openly roleplay as communist nations?

Neither The Communist Bloc or The Leftist Assembly creates spectacle after spectacle in the WA trying to promote themselves or their ideology, now do they? Neither of them have run candidates for SecGen, and cry about it everywhere when their candidates lose. Neither of them go on and on and on and on and on and on about the WA Elite. Neither of them have a bad habit of crashing spectacularly in public and then doubling down while denying all responsibility.

Don't get confused. I find communism and fascism equally reprehensible, but in terms of NS gameplay? The CCD and its fascist wankery stands alone.

I wasn't actually making a communist v fascism argument, or saying no commie had run for SecGen. I said neither of those regions had run candidates for SecGen in as annoying a manner as the CCD's campaign for Joco. Which was in response to Shrew's inquiry as to why I wasn't condemning them.
Fact is that while fascism and communism are both reprehensible? It's the CCD that makes the biggest spectacle and annoyance of itself, in ways commie regions....just don't.

So yeah. You misread what I was saying and jumped to conclusions. No harm, it happens.

Setting aside your conjecture about communism being an economic matter alone, which anybody who gave a crap about it would tell you is wrong over in NSG...

Here's a secret for ya. NSG is full of teenagers who pontificate over issues they only barely understand and highly opinionated 20-somethings who haven't quite figured out they're not the great political philosophers they think they are. Always has been, and likely always will be. And before you get upset at that characterization? I've been both.

Regardless, it's not a place I would look to for a nuanced, scholarly discussion. On communism or any other topic.

[Valerox]

That's a bit rich coming from an officer of Balder, you know, a region directly involved in the recent raids.

My bad for fash bashing and opposing my regions enemies
Point is you just say someone is part of the WA elite whenever they oppose you. Pretty hypocritical considering you just claimed the "WA Elite" just calls people fascists to discredit them, and you go around calling people WA elite to discredit them.

Like really...TBH, the WA elite? No offense to TBH but there aren't any regions out there that are trying to please TBH in WA affairs, or any affairs for that matter.

I'm not going to argue on the merits of your argument, for now i'll let Shrew handle it. But "fash bashing?" That has to be one of the cringiest terms on the forums. I get you think it's noble or deserved or whatever you excuse you use to gain satisfaction out of continually throwing shit our way, but that term just makes me think of some twelve year old's high fiving as they grief someones minecraft server. Maybe i'm out of line, still Sorta new to the Imperial Council and getting adjusted to the forums and the "everyone hates you" vibe, but just use "trolling" or "slandering" or something. Anyways, looking forward to debating with many of you, even though this thread does seem like somewhat of a lost cause.